Balance between neutered citizens and overly violent citizens...?

There were these guys 2 seconds ago who broke into a car.

I would go out and confront them, but the last one in my neighbourhood who did it got stabbed to death.

It only took them some 2-3 min, then they were off.

I did call the police (much good that does). But seriously I feel... Neutered? I think that's the closest word I can find. See, over here, if you hurt someone you generally end up worse than the actual offender in court. I could bring my dog, but if he bites someone bad, he will have to have one of those things around his mouth for the rest of his life, if he doesn't get put to death.

ALL my instincts yelled at me to go out and defend my neighbours property... My dog would have backed me... But instead I sit here typing this on .org.

I don't know what I like the least, Swedish immigration policy overflowing the country with people from trash cultures fresh out of a warzone, or Swedens strict laws on violence, and also dogs.

FML

Oh and yeah, the perpetrators are long gone.

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Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube

.. Murica .. ?

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Not REALLY the answer I was looking for, mate... There must be some middle way...

*not that I would be opposed to landmines on my front garden*

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

There must be some middle way...

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2-H axe? Chainsaw?

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Originally Posted by rvg

2-H axe? Chainsaw?

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Cutting them in half - and middle way - REALLY isn't the same thing, bro :stare:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Cutting them in half - and middle way - REALLY isn't the same thing, bro :stare:

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If they're stupid enough to try to stab a man wielding a chainsaw, they MUST be purged from the gene pool. Like they say in Detroit: "niggas get shot for shit like that."

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Originally Posted by rvg

If they're stupid enough to try to stab a man wielding a chainsaw, they MUST be purged from the gene pool. Like they say in Detroit: "niggas get shot for shit like that."

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Yeah, I just don't want to spend 15 years in jail for having taken them out of the gene pool... That should be quite understandable.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Yeah, I just don't want to spend 15 years in jail for having taken them out of the gene pool... That should be quite understandable.

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Aren't you allowed to defend yourself?

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Originally Posted by rvg

Aren't you allowed to defend yourself?

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Sure you are, with least amount of force. PROVING you were only defending yourself with least amount of force is a whole other matter.

As an example, some years ago, a lady around 70-80 or so years old had stopped with her car. A psychotic man opened the door, and started to strangle her.

All she could do was honk her cars horn...

A guy stopped, saw what happened, grabbed the nearest tool and beat the perpetrator unconscious.

Perpetrator went to a mental ward, the guy with the tool went to prison for "armed assault". Judge thought he could have used less force.

Sure, our version of supreme court cleared him after a public uproar, but that still goes to show where we are at legally.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

...Perpetrator went to a mental ward, the guy with the tool went to prison for "armed assault". Judge thought he could have used less force.

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This is horrible! Don't people have a problem with a law like that?

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Originally Posted by rvg

This is horrible! Don't people have a problem with a law like that?

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Well, we used to have quite low statistics on crime, so people were happy as is. You know, the "perpetrator" used to be someones son and neighbour..

These days, crime is sky rocketing and the perpetrator is generally some arab or negroe fresh out of a warzone...

Sweden these days accept more than 1% of their population as immigrants, generally from the lowest scum cultures. Guess what happens when that is a trend for 10-20-30 years.

Castle law and stand your ground.

Property is an extension of the person, defending it is part of a person's right of self defense.

Maybe a courteous "Get away from my car or I'll shoot" first. I note that I believe that to be a courtesy, not a requirement.

Sometimes I hate it when Americans make sense..

Still though, I DO NOT want Sweden to turn into some mini-USA where signs like "Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again" seem reasonable.

IMO you should be able to defend yourself with what you have but if you can avoid killing the perp and do it anyway, then it's not okay. Before he is incapacitated or runs away, anything goes. Shooting someone in the back because he is carrying your TV is not okay. If the TV breaks from the shot or when he falls, you get the double sentence. Not that you would need a gun for self defense.

Any conflict is always problematic though. And these stories about Europeans favouring the criminals in court make their rounds here as well, heard about a guy who fell onto a knife while breaking in through a window and the homeowner was charged for not storing the knife properly. Just hearsay though, could be entirely made up.

In another story, a Hell's Angels member shot and killed a policeman through his front door when he saw shades outside and thought another gang was coming to kill him, he was let go because he claimed self defense. In Germany!

And don't come with the old "but the cops are so dangerous!", that's only true for the US, as fair and balanced news report: http://rt.com/usa/us-germany-85-shots-022/
(Another link: http://www.thewire.com/global/2012/0...le-2011/52162/ )

The only thing all the guns in the US seem to do is fill the air with even more lead, how that makes one more secure apart from a few single cases is anyone's guess.
So please excuse me while I enjoy my freedom in my superior country. :pleased:

A car is replacable, a bashed skull is not.

Castle law is the dumbest idea in the history of the world, if you exclude peanut butter.

Castle-law only applies to your own territory and peanut-butter is delicious. But let the insurance company handle this, why would you risk your life if there isn't someone in actual danger. If you witnissed a rape or a beating it would be different.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

But let the insurance company handle this, why would you risk your life if there isn't someone in actual danger. If you witnissed a rape or a beating it would be different.

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Indeed.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Castle law and stand your ground.

Property is an extension of the person, defending it is part of a person's right of self defense.

Maybe a courteous "Get away from my car or I'll shoot" first. I note that I believe that to be a courtesy, not a requirement.

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And this is where you need a MIDDLE GROUND.

The force you are allowed to apply should be comparable to the force the perpetrator is applying.

So, if some guy is trying to strangle an old lady to death and you hit him, and he dies, then you shouldn't have to worry about more than a night in the cells while the cops get their facts straight.

I'm not in favour of Castle Laws when they allow you to shoot someone who steps on your roses.

Force should be a last resort - used in defense of life and limb. Generally speaking, you should not be allowed to use violence to protect your property. However, if you attempt to apprehend the culprit and he attacks you - well, see above.

What if your property can't be replaced? A car can be replaced. I got some rare paintings and african webpons/artifacts, some hundreds of years old, they are worth a lot but I don't care as they aren't for sale. Should I settle for what the insurance company is willing to give me if I catch someone trying to steal them from me? Money isn't everything.

Capital punishment is still not a fitting sentence for theft of irreplacable paintings.

Especially not when the sentence is carried out extra-judicially.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

What if your property can't be replaced? A car can be replaced. I got some rare paintings and african webpons/artifacts, some hundreds of years old, they are worth a lot but I don't care as they aren't for sale. Should I settle for what the insurance company is willing to give me if I catch someone trying to steal them from me? Money isn't everything.

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If you shoot a cannister round into his rear, your irreplacable art will get shredded together with him.
If you just throw a lasso, he might as well fall right onto it and break it. How is that helpful in your situation?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Capital punishment is still not a fitting sentence for theft of irreplacable paintings.

Especially not when the sentence is carried out extra-judicially.

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If you believe, as I do, that property is an extension of person -- since it was your blood, sweat, and effort whereby you gained it -- then theft or damage to your property is threat or damage to you.

Insurance is a fine idea. There are risks to using violence in self defense and property -- as an extension of your person and not your physical person itself -- is more readily replaced. Choosing not to add further risk in defense of your property and relying on insurance compensation is a valid choice. It is up to you to decide if the risk to you is greater than the reward.

The "rights" of the thief are a matter of little concern to me during such as episode. They have forfeited some of the normal protections afforded them while engaged in dishonest behavior of their choice. On the other hand, if they put my property down and depart, I do NOT have the right to hunt them in vengeance. Nor do I have the right to resort to violence because I "think" my property is being threatened. Trespassers may simply be lost, for example, so "shoot on sight on my property" would be a little over the top.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

If you believe, as I do, that property is an extension of person -- since it was your blood, sweat, and effort whereby you gained it -- then theft or damage to your property is threat or damage to you.

Insurance is a fine idea. There are risks to using violence in self defense and property -- as an extension of your person and not your physical person itself -- is more readily replaced. Choosing not to add further risk in defense of your property and relying on insurance compensation is a valid choice. It is up to you to decide if the risk to you is greater than the reward.

The "rights" of the thief are a matter of little concern to me during such as episode. They have forfeited some of the normal protections afforded them while engaged in dishonest behavior of their choice. On the other hand, if they put my property down and depart, I do NOT have the right to hunt them in vengeance. Nor do I have the right to resort to violence because I "think" my property is being threatened. Trespassers may simply be lost, for example, so "shoot on sight on my property" would be a little over the top.

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So thieves should be given the death penalty?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Capital punishment is still not a fitting sentence for theft of irreplacable paintings.

Especially not when the sentence is carried out extra-judicially.

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Justice ha, if I catch someone in my house he's mine. Public secret, the police doesn't care as long as someone isn't laying on your property and you haven't called them. If you did call them they have no choice but doing their job, but they prefer it if you don't, case closed.

Have you tried hanging books from the trees? That usually scares them off.

I can't believe the debate here is do nothing vs kill them. Situations like this are exactly what nunchakus are for. Or you could go outside and try to engage them in conversation, tell them you sympathize and support diversity, and them ask them inside for a cup of tea so instead they can steal your skis.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

So thieves should be given the death penalty?

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Not quite the same thing, as you knew when you fired back.

However, the state should take measures to have the perpetrator provide restitution and MUST take efforts to minimize recidivism.

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Not quite the same thing, as you knew when you fired back.

However, the state should take measures to have the perpetrator provide restitution and MUST take efforts to minimize recidivism.

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Wealth redistribution is a glorious thing to reduce crime. More equality in society = less crime.

Anyway, I fail to see how shooting someone stealing from you is anything other than capital punishment dealt without a trial.

Also called murder.

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Like they say in Detroit: "niggas get shot for shit like that."

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Is that a fact:rolleyes:

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Sweden these days accept more than 1% of their population as immigrants, generally from the lowest scum cultures. Guess what happens when that is a trend for 10-20-30 years.

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The United States?:creep:

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These days, crime is sky rocketing and the perpetrator is generally some arab or negroe fresh out of a warzone...

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I presume you have some kind of data to support this...?:book2:

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Originally Posted by ReluctantSamurai

The United States?:creep:



I presume you have some kind of data to support this...?:book2:

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Sure, lots. Pretty much all in Swedish though.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Sure, lots. Pretty much all in Swedish though.

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No different here. Almost all muggings are youth who are an enrichment to our culture, only the disabled and old have that problem though, they don't pick harder targets unless they hunt in packs. Cowards.

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Originally Posted by Fragony

No different here. Almost all muggings are youth who are an enrichment to our culture, only the disabled and old have that problem though, they don't pick harder targets unless they hunt in packs. Cowards.

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Armed / unarmed robbery certainly is one of the crimes where immigrants are over represented in the statistics. Social factors can't explain all of it, no..

Rape statistics are out the window though. We also seem to have this new sport of "balcony jumping", that seams to be more than extremely lead by people from the Middle East / North Africa.

Balcony jumping = honour killing wifes / daughters who assimilate to Sweden, because they assimilate to Sweden.

Rape statistics in Sweden are rediculous, Allah bless your politicians who made that possible. Way to ruin a really nice country.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Armed / unarmed robbery certainly is one of the crimes where immigrants are over represented in the statistics. Social factors can't explain all of it, no..

Rape statistics are out the window though. We also seem to have this new sport of "balcony jumping", that seams to be more than extremely lead by people from the Middle East / North Africa.

Balcony jumping = honour killing wifes / daughters who assimilate to Sweden, because they assimilate to Sweden.

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It's worth pointing out that it isn't BECAUSE they're Arabs. If the US started exporting white trash, you'd get the same problems.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

It's worth pointing out that it isn't BECAUSE they're Arabs. If the US started exporting white trash, you'd get the same problems.

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White trash is mostly benign and they'll never bother you as long as you stay off their lawn and let them cook their meth in peace. As for muslims taking over Sweden, I believe it. Totally. Give them a foot and they'll take a mile.

HoreTore thinks its wrong that a man who is getting his tv stolen can use whatever force he finds necessary to prevent it.

HoreTore thinks the solution is for the government to use whatever force it finds necessary to hand the tv over from the man to the criminal in order to prevent the criminal from stealing the tv in the first place.

Hilarious if it wasn't actually practiced in some countries.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

It's worth pointing out that it isn't BECAUSE they're Arabs. If the US started exporting white trash, you'd get the same problems.

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It sure is because of their cultures.

Hey, you agree that the middle east and Africa have a trash view on women?

Then it wouldnt be surprising if rape statistics went up when you imported guys from this culture, huh?

They are used to seeing women as livestock in drapes. Now they have hot drunk blondes in miniskirts all around. Of course the Arabs and African then take over in rape statistics.

And no, I don't think we would have the same problem with rapes and balcony jumping if we imported rednecks.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Wealth redistribution is a glorious thing to reduce crime. More equality in society = less crime.

Anyway, I fail to see how shooting someone stealing from you is anything other than capital punishment dealt without a trial.

Also called murder.

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Wealth redistribution works to a point. Yes, crushing poverty with little or no hope of bettering your situation yields to crime on a "what the blank does it matter basis," or even a "this is the only way to feed my family" basis.

Redistribute all of the wealth equally, so that all persons are equally funded and you will NOT eliminate crime. To do so you would have to eliminate greed -- and it seems that at least some portion of all of our populations is willing to cut corners or whatever to get ahead.


As to our hypothetical thieves, your solution is to give them my property. I worked for it, I bought it, I maintain it, but their "right" to be secure in their persons trumps my right to defend my property and that means that I have to stand by while they take my hard-earned property for their own use and enjoyment. I will call the cops, who will try but not likely succeed in getting my property returned. I will then call the insurance company, file a claim -- a service that I have also worked to pay for -- and will be compensated for my lost property as per the insurance contract. Who pays me compensation for my personal sense of loss and discomfiture? Moreover, should the event recur, the insurance company will raise my rates or refuse to cover me as a poor risk. Then what?

All in all, Horetore, I don't like that version of justice.

Their rights end at my property.

Joe Horn did nothing wrong

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

It sure is because of their cultures.

Hey, you agree that the middle east and Africa have a trash view on women?

Then it wouldnt be surprising if rape statistics went up when you imported guys from this culture, huh?

They are used to seeing women as livestock in drapes. Now they have hot drunk blondes in miniskirts all around. Of course the Arabs and African then take over in rape statistics.

And no, I don't think we would have the same problem with rapes and balcony jumping if we imported rednecks.

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Maybe not the SAME issues, but you might find greatly increased gun violence and race-related crime would come with the Rednecks

You also need to differentiate between the educated Levantine Arab (a doctor) who's wife went to university and the scummy uneducated Levantine Arab who takes out the trash.

Part of the issue is that we - Europe - import an underclass to do jobs we don't want to. We then have the same problems the Romans had with slaves.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Maybe not the SAME issues, but you might find greatly increased gun violence and race-related crime would come with the Rednecks

You also need to differentiate between the educated Levantine Arab (a doctor) who's wife went to university and the scummy uneducated Levantine Arab who takes out the trash.

Part of the issue is that we - Europe - import an underclass to do jobs we don't want to. We then have the same problems the Romans had with slaves.

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I talk about Swedish immigration. I talk about Somali and Afghan trash. NOT about a doctor from Iran with his rocket scientist wife.

See, Sweden has this view on humanity that "we are all equal". Unfortunately, Sweden has taken this idea to the extreme where it no longer means "We all have equal right to live", but "we are all equally worth. Period".

It's an absolutely GRAND idea. Don't get me wrong, I effin love the idea at large. It's just that in real life everyone is NOT of equal worth. Somali analphabet kids with a lineage of intrafamily marriage traditions are NOT of the same worth in education as children of Swedish heritage.

Just look at Swedens school results in international tests, like the PISA test, to judge for yourself how well this line of thinking functions.

That's just an example.. It goes on for pretty much else too.

Some cultures are trash. Some cultures have also through cultural means diminished their biological worth to the-gene pool at large.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

Wealth redistribution works to a point. Yes, crushing poverty with little or no hope of bettering your situation yields to crime on a "what the blank does it matter basis," or even a "this is the only way to feed my family" basis.

Redistribute all of the wealth equally, so that all persons are equally funded and you will NOT eliminate crime. To do so you would have to eliminate greed -- and it seems that at least some portion of all of our populations is willing to cut corners or whatever to get ahead.

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See, this is the problem with discussing wealth redistribution. I said "more equality", you interpreted that as "everyone equal" and "crushing poverty". I also said "less crime", which you translated to "eliminate crime". If we're going to discuss further, let's discuss honestly, shall we?

There's overwhelming statistical evidence(like this book, discussed in this article by the well-known communist den Bloomberg ) that the level of equality in a society correlates with the level of crime in that society, and that increasing or decreasing equality increases or decreases crime.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh

As to our hypothetical thieves, your solution is to give them my property. I worked for it, I bought it, I maintain it, but their "right" to be secure in their persons trumps my right to defend my property and that means that I have to stand by while they take my hard-earned property for their own use and enjoyment. I will call the cops, who will try but not likely succeed in getting my property returned. I will then call the insurance company, file a claim -- a service that I have also worked to pay for -- and will be compensated for my lost property as per the insurance contract. Who pays me compensation for my personal sense of loss and discomfiture? Moreover, should the event recur, the insurance company will raise my rates or refuse to cover me as a poor risk. Then what?

All in all, Horetore, I don't like that version of justice.

Their rights end at my property.

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The thief should unquestionably be punished for causing you distress and loss of property, and you should be recompensated for your loss. However, I do not in any way believe that your loss is big enough to justify capital punishment.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...ef=mostpopular

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Some cultures are trash. Some cultures have also through cultural means diminished their biological worth to the-gene pool at large.

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Cultural indoctrination makes me want to argue against this - but even 1,000 years ago, if your daughter was raped you BLAMED the racist. Even if your daughter had been "ruined" what you did was sent her to a Nunnery, you didn't kill her.

So - yeah - a culture that encourages men to kill their daughters purely for mild "shaming" like going out dancing...

I could maybe relate on some level if these girls were ACTUALLY prostitutes.

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Originally Posted by Major Robert Dump

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/0...ef=mostpopular

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This - is dumb.

Four guys? The fact that only one is dead shows the fighter was pretty restrained.

nvm.

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if your daughter was raped you BLAMED the racist.

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Dammit Abu, I told you your intolerance would bring ills down upon our family!

Opposite ends of the keyboard, eh? :eyebrows:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Dammit Abu, I told you your intolerance would bring ills down upon our family!

Opposite ends of the keyboard, eh? :eyebrows:

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Obviously a Freudian slip - because I expect to be called a racist.

Feminism is a Western concept - so is gender equality (as we understand it). There's no reason to expect non-Westerners to follow those beliefs.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Feminism is a Western concept - so is gender equality (as we understand it). There's no reason to expect non-Westerners to follow those beliefs.

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That only holds true for non-Westerners residing in non-Western countries. Those who live in the West should follow the Western rules or gtfo back to the hellhole they came from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rvg

That only holds true for non-Westerners residing in non-Western countries. Those who live in the West should follow the Western rules or gtfo back to the hellhole they came from.

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You misunderstand - they should follow our laws regardless.

It is, however, a cultural prejudice to believe that the state of affairs in the Anglo-sphere and Western Europe is inevitable.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

You misunderstand - they should follow our laws regardless.

It is, however, a cultural prejudice to believe that the state of affairs in the Anglo-sphere and Western Europe is inevitable.

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It just is clear that to some people, our values are not a subject of any negotiation. I don't give a :daisy: about of how things are perceived in elsewhere, when they come from a culture where basic human rights don't count for women and gays. So I completely disregard their culture and don't give a :daisy: if that offends them. If they don't like that they can go back to where they come from.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Dammit Abu, I told you your intolerance would bring ills down upon our family!

Opposite ends of the keyboard, eh? :eyebrows:

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Perpetrator / racist... Common spelling mistake, really.

Thanks, bro.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

You misunderstand - they should follow our laws regardless.

It is, however, a cultural prejudice to believe that the state of affairs in the Anglo-sphere and Western Europe is inevitable.

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If we stopped the multiculturalism coddling, then yes it would be inevitable.

It turns out that women don't in fact like to be stoned for dancing, and if you introduce this concept in a region that's not absolutely crushed with poverty it spreads.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

If we stopped the multiculturalism coddling, then yes it would be inevitable.

It turns out that women don't in fact like to be stoned for dancing, and if you introduce this concept in a region that's not absolutely crushed with poverty it spreads.

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Yet - shockingly - they have never liked it.

Just because you're seeing a few people adopting Western ideas doesn't mean the region will catch fire.

Afghanistan was "Liberal" 60 years ago - but only in Urban areas.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Yet - shockingly - they have never liked it.

Just because you're seeing a few people adopting Western ideas doesn't mean the region will catch fire.

Afghanistan was "Liberal" 60 years ago - but only in Urban areas.

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Not to mention IRAN nation wide before USA did their usual ****...

Seriously, read up on it if you haven't.

http://www.pagef30.com/2009/04/iran-...evolution.html

*source chosen because of the pictures*

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Yet - shockingly - they have never liked it.

Just because you're seeing a few people adopting Western ideas doesn't mean the region will catch fire.

Afghanistan was "Liberal" 60 years ago - but only in Urban areas.

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They never liked it because Western style natural and civil rights died when we also introduced Western style foreign policy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name

They never liked it because EUROPEAN style natural and civil rights died when we also introduced USAnian style foreign policy.

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FIFY

Ain't I not the handy guy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

FIFY

Ain't I not the handy guy?

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Yeah, because Europe is all innocent and kind.

Colonialism, nazism, communism, religious persecution and all that NEVER HAPPENED!!!111

The reason Europe doesn't project power as much as the US does isn't because we're Übermensch, it's because we're unable to as we're basically a backwater now.

We were *** *****, but slowly learnt. It's called progression. That's why I dislike Africa, they haven't progressed the same way.

My FIFY was about the world AS IT IS TODAY, not some flagellation you feel Europeans need for oh so horrible historical crimes.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

We were *** *****, but slowly learnt. It's called progression. That's why I dislike Africa, they haven't progressed the same way.

My FIFY was about the world AS IT IS TODAY, not some flagellation you feel Europeans need for oh so horrible historical crimes.

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How many dead Bangladeshi does it take to make cheap Swedish clothes and fill Swedish pockets again?

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

We were *** *****, but slowly learnt. It's called progression. That's why I dislike Africa, they haven't progressed the same way.

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How could the slaves progress in the same way as their overlords after the overlords cut off their arms and legs and then attached them again in a random way? Apparently the colonial powers taught them that the strong can take what they want and some of them took that lesson to heart and now their former colonial overlords complain about that and send them free food that ruins their local farmers while supporting their dictators as long as they claim to fight terrorism. I really wonder why oh why they do not progress in any way now that they're totally the masters of their own destiny as long as they do what we want them to do. :rolleyes:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Husar

How could the slaves progress in the same way as their overlords after the overlords cut off their arms and legs and then attached them again in a random way?...

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Not all of Africa was colonized. Look at Ethiopia: it's never been a colony, but its politico/economic situation is no different from the average African country.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rvg

Not all of Africa was colonized. Look at Ethiopia: it's never been a colony, but its politico/economic situation is no different from the average African country.

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You're right, being carpet-bombed by the Italians is a lot better.

And Ethiopia is the only example, by the way. All the rest was colonized. Besides, Husar's comment was largely about the present west/africa relations.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rvg

Not all of Africa was colonized. Look at Ethiopia: it's never been a colony, but its politico/economic situation is no different from the average African country.

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And the USA were never colonized by anyone so none of the problems in the USA could ever possibly have anything to do with what's going on in Mexico.

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

You're right, being carpet-bombed by the Italians is a lot better.

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Britain was carpet-bombed by the Germans. Germany was carpet-bombed by the Allies. Both recovered.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rvg

Britain was carpet-bombed by the Germans.

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This is a joke, right?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rvg

Germany was carpet-bombed by the Allies. Both recovered.

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So having France as a neighbor is the same as having Somalia as a neighbor?
Does Poland qualify as being on Kenia's level and the Netherlands are Europe's Eritrea?

How much did the USA give to Ethiopia as part of the Marshall plan?

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Originally Posted by rvg

Britain was carpet-bombed by the Germans. Germany was carpet-bombed by the Allies. Both recovered.

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....After recieving a ton of money from the US, yes.

Does this mean you're arguing for increased foreign aid to Africa?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

....After recieving a ton of money from the US, yes.

Does this mean you're arguing for increased foreign aid to Africa?

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USSR got bombed too. Wasn't part of the Marshall plan, but managed to rebuild just fine.

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Originally Posted by rvg

USSR got bombed too. Wasn't part of the Marshall plan, but managed to rebuild just fine.

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Are you of the opinion that the Soviet Union was all fun and games now...?

Or are you suggesting that the Ethiopians should enslave a million Germans to build a few cities, as well as dismantling the Samsung HQ and rebuilding it in Addis Adeba?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

Are you of the opinion that the Soviet Union was all fun and games now...?

Or are you suggesting that the Ethiopians should enslave a million Germans to build a few cities, as well as dismantling the Samsung HQ and rebuilding it in Addis Adeba?

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I'm suggesting that Ethiopia's problems didn't have a thing to do with WW2 or colonialism.

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Originally Posted by rvg

I'm suggesting that Ethiopia's problems didn't have a thing to do with WW2 or colonialism.

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What, if I may ask, do you consider the root cause of Ethiopias problems then?

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Originally Posted by HoreTore

What, if I may ask, do you consider the root cause of Ethiopias problems then?

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They missed the industrial revolution. As for who to blame for that, hell if I know.

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Not REALLY the answer I was looking for, mate... There must be some middle way...

*not that I would be opposed to landmines on my front garden*

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lol, laws in many places in America are just as bad as Sweden. Luckily where I live, if I saw that I could go out with a gun and a phone, hold them where they stood, and call the police. Someone in Chicago would be in the same boat as you though.

Considering the African colonies were set up solely for the exploitation of raw materials, it should come as no surprise that they have trouble "progressing". It's a bit rich to look at the Africans after half a century and look on in dismay at their half functioning democracies.

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Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Considering the African colonies were set up solely for the exploitation of raw materials, it should come as no surprise that they have trouble "progressing". It's a bit rich to look at the Africans after half a century and look on in dismay at their half functioning democracies.

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True - but then you have the countries that are just barbarism with t-shirts and AK's.

That's a bit harder to explain.

RE Kad's Iranian pictures - it's important to remember that this lifestyle was adopted happily enough by the young - but it was ENFORCED on everyone. No head coverings - no calls to prayer.

Piety became a way of resisting the repressive regime of the Shah.

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Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

True - but then you have the countries that are just barbarism with t-shirts and AK's.

That's a bit harder to explain..

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How so?

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Originally Posted by rvg

USSR got bombed too. Wasn't part of the Marshall plan, but managed to rebuild just fine.

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The growth of the Soviet Union's economic and military power was amazing, but they were crippled by WW2/Stalin. Estimates place the Soviet Union at 162M persons in 1937. The committee census report did not meet with Stalin's approval -- he had promised the Party Congress 168M -- so the committee was gulaged.

Post Stalin, in the 1950s, their population was barely 208M despite acquiring Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, most of Karelia, part of Eastern Poland, and part of Romania and adding all of those populations to the total. The Soviet pre-war population was, LITERALLY, decimated. Actually, the number was worse with 1 in every 8 pre-war Russians dead.

Population in what is today Russia was estimated at about 110M in 1940, today that number is about 143M. By contrast, France has just under 66M persons today, having had roughly 42M in 1940.

They did rebuild, yes, but is was always more of a Potemkin village thing then they ever let on.

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Originally Posted by rvg

This is horrible! Don't people have a problem with a law like that?

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Property can be insured against theft. In a way, there really is no reason to confront anyone. Call the police, let them deal with it, that's what they preach. Getting involved yourself just makes it all very confusing, apart from you putting yourself in danger.

:p