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....And the GOP is the ultimate champion and defender of the free market.
Apparently, the three republican governors feel the dictionaries should change their definition of "free market" to "government decides how businesses are run".
Still, Obama is a filthy socialist.
Not the first time Tesla got screwed by predatory businessmen.
Maybe the name is the problem - Tesla the scientist was also screwed by predatory businessmen.
What's the rationale for the decision?
An argument that factory-owned stores will out-compete independent retailers, thus reducing overall competition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Translated to the language of common sense, it's "rubbish".
IOW more efficient business models offering superior products will eliminate their ossified competitors - all true, but the key thing is that new ones would arise to replace the old competitors, unless of course the next wave of politicians causes another round of sclerosis...
In addition to that, the independent car retailers are not producers of anything of value. They are nothing more than added costs. Good riddance to them, I say.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Obama is probably a socialist, like the Republicans are Capitalists. Barely. More important than their nominal ideological leanings is their addiction to status quo cronyism. That is the national religion of the elite. A permanent stasis where their laws apply to all us underlings.
You have to remember what qualifies; if China is Communist, look at their policies and look at the Presidents. The world is on it's head and ideological stereotyping is as useful as tits on a bull.
I hope Tesla continues to fight until every American can buy a car directly from the manufacturer.
The people fighting Tesla are the local franchise dealerships. These are not the manufacturers, the independent dealer model was created ages ago to prevent customers from being stranded by the automaker with no maintenance support. But it has turned into a rent-seeking operation at this point and needs a serious overhaul. The trouble is that the owners of dealerships are wealthy and influential within both local and state governments, so they are can fight Tesla effectively to protect their outdated business model, any change needs to happen at the federal level. This doesn't have anything to do with Obama or the GOP. State and local politicians from both parties are going to get bribed in this fight.
Buying a car in the US is probably the worst, most degrading retail experience one can have. If I could afford a Tesla, I would have jumped on it in a heartbeat instead of sitting a dealership for hours fighting the sales staff.
Say "I want the car." Agree on a price. STILL go through hours of bull excrement to actually drive off the lot. And only part of the excrement is govt red tape -- the rest is pressure to get you to cave on added warrantys etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
I'd agree with your assessment of Dems on consumer rights, but I'd downgrade the corporate welfare support by the GOP to sometimes (don't get me wrong, I am generally opposed to any such and it is the GOP who takes the lead in maintaining most of it -- but the TEA crowd does this less).Quote:
Originally Posted by Gelatinous Cube
I note that all three states with this law is run by a Republican governor. No democrat governor has passed such a law.Quote:
Originally Posted by drone
IIRC the same thing was done with Saturn, who made damn fine cars.
The political affiliation of the governor is just as important as the affiliation of the senators and reps in the state who voted for this. Texas does not surprise me. Not sure about Jersey.
I hate car dealers, and I hate car sales people, for my own reasons. Tesla should use this obstacle as a selling point, and stick stores right next to the border of an adjacent state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
It's one of the stupidest arguments I've ever heard, and I've read all total relism's and KurdishSpartacus' threads.
The internet has helped make middle-men obsolete. Our current employment in the west is based on nearly endless layers of middle-men who have been made obsolete. If a factory can now effectively market directly to the consumer, I'm all for that even though it will undercut the prices traditionally commanded of local middle men. This is one of the modern conundrums that has been leveling traditional jobs and it needs to be overcome rather than ignoring it due to the local power of middlemen
Regarding mass production, clearly the large factory model is capable of saturating the market and lowering cost based on volume. Quality tends to suffer, but most people don't care about quality.
Only half true and some would say false.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
I worked for Intel Ireland back in the day and we had 5000 employees making millions of chips, we made them for high prices and at high quality.
but we also made flash memory at low prices and high quality.
and we flooded the market.
In actuality your sucess depends on a multiple of factors (price should be important but not your only concern)
To the People of New Jersey, from Tesla Motors.
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog/people-new-jersey
Surprisingly informational and non-promotional from a CEO. Colour me impressed.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
I believe in accelerating human redundancy with technology. Car dealerships are terrible in an online world and are a weight on the neck of the consumer, especially when there manufacturer would prefer an in-house sales force. I prefer the direct market, right from the factory.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
I'm surprised to hear that an avowed socialist prefers this option as it deprives countless workers of a job. Maybe it is just because you don't respect their jobs? I feel this way about all unnecessary, state propped jobs
First of all, my surprise at the CEO comes from his avoidance of promotional wording. Usually, statements from a CEO on whatever sounds like a sales pitch - his doesn't.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
Secondly, I am not at all concerned with people keeping their jobs, I am concerned with people finding new ones. An innovation like this doesn't reduce the overall number of jobs, it simply changes the job.
For the same reason, I am also completely indifferent to family businesses going bankrupt. I don't care one squat if someone looses the business they have kept in their family for a few hundred years.
It's the necessary way of life.
Good. I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Congratulations!Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
You are now Marxist. Please report to your local politbureau to receive your card and hand over your firstborn son as collateral.
I'm pretty sure that what you've acknowledged is capitalism. The only reason it wasn't allowed to happen for Tesla in NJ is because of the nanny state pandering to established interests.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
If a business can't cut it without cronyism, that business should die and the proprietors and employees are unemployed. I don't know what Marx has to do with this.
Be careful of what you say. We have your son, remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
Tesla will eventually cave
They all eventually cave
There's no way out man
Elon Musk is a cross between Steve Jobs and Richard Branson.
If anyone can beat an incumbent industry model Elon will.
It's also worth noting the Tesla itself is a rent-seeking welfare queen of a corporation. They wouldn't even exist were it not for government hand-outs- so, you won't find me being very sympathetic to their plight.
Having said that, the dealership regulations are flagrant cronyism.
Link or it didn't happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xiahou
I thought the only government money was loans which Tesla is paying off ahead of schedule. So hardly hand outs if you pay them back.
The reason they are paying back the $465 million dollar loan ahead of schedule is that they are making a profit.
So I'd like to see your facts to back up such remarks.
From Forbes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
This is just a quick Google search. There's certainly more to be found. They get a minimum of a $7500 subsidy on each car sold.Quote:
It’s All About the Tax Credits
Ever heard of a ZEV tax credit….. For the uninitiated in the arcana of tax credits, the ZEV, or zero emission vehicle tax credit is today the cornerstone of any profitability at Tesla Motors Inc. This federal subsidy guarantees a $7,500 tax credit to any purchaser of a zero emission vehicle such as an electric car. The left coast of California offers other credits which can take this number up to $12,500.
But the real issue here is the ZEV state environmental credits that TESLA earns selling each model S vehicle. The California Air Resources Board (CARB) has a schedule requiring all carmakers to sell a certain number of electric vehicles in the state. The utopian goal is that 15 percent of all cars be ZEV by 2025. Car manufacturers that fail to comply with statutory mandates are by default forced to purchase zero-emissions-vehicle credits from other automakers in an open market. The other auto makers are Tesla and Nissan. It is fast turning into a major cash cow.
All purchasers of zero emission cars get that regardless of the maunfacturer.
It is a purchase subsidy and only indirectly goes to Tesla... They make far more money trading Zero emission credits to the big manufacturers. Upto $35k per car.
So try again.
~:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
The ZEV credits are their biggest government support. You just agreed with me.
Close to half the price of their product charged to consumers is offset by government. Even better, a large chunk of it is seized directly from their competitors. Their success is due to government putting it's thumb on the scales.
It would be dumb not to take advantage of a government program where feds are basically throwing money at you. More power to Tesla, they are the way of the future.
That's not my point. They lobby for their government largesse and they received it. Fine. But don't expect me to feel sympathetic for them when other government rent-seekers out maneuver them for once.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
If they weren't on the dole themselves, they'd get more sympathy from me for being the victims of government intervention- if their existence didn't depend on the same government intervening on their behalf.
I say the government shouldn't be picking winners and losers. But by that standard, Tesla Motors wouldn't even exist.
1) The zero emissions trade scheme is a free trade mechanism between manufactures to allow flexibility in meeting California's zero emmisions mandate. So its hardly a dole payout. It is other manufacturers paying to stay compliant.
2) Most car manufacturers have some sort of government subsidies.
3) None of the mechanisms you have mentioned are the government picking Tesla over another corporation. They are either Federal rebates for purchasers and brand independent or a free market mechanism allowing manufacuturers to trade zero emission credits between each other in California. So neither of them are exclusive to Tesla.