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But it's apparently a great breakthrough. Bing Bang.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-26605974
My greatest que?
'Theory holds that this would have taken the infant Universe from something unimaginably small to something about the size of a marble. Space has continued to expand for the nearly 14 billion years since.'
Where did that infant Universy exist in before? 4th dimension? Some time space anomaly? Behind me when I am not looking?
Dont worry Frags. You are not alone in the crowd who have no idea about what this really means. Im sure our less intellectually challenged members will soon come to enlighten the rest of us, what is this fuss about. :yes:
If thee was no movement prior to the Big Bang, was there a "before"?
Who cares, let's build warp-drives.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Well, according to M-theory...
Imagine two sheets hanging out to dry. They will of course ripple in the wind. When the two fabrics meet, a "Big Bang" occurs.
Now, as to what the two sheets represent, and what would cause the wind... Oh well, let's just say it causes me an headache when I try to dwell into it.
It's either Chuck Norris sneezing or God. You can pick whichever you think is likelier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Sent from my SM-N900 using Tapatalk
I can agree on it maybe being a god. Question would be which one :shrug:Quote:
Originally Posted by rajpoot
Hawking states that the state of the universe prior to the big bang was a singularity, thus the laws of physics did not apply to it. it therefore, has no way of influencing the events after the big bang, and we have no way of explaining it as the rules do not apply to it. Thus, it can be ignored. Also, the light from the big bang was sort of discovered some decades ago, at least so he says in "A brief history of the universe". We also know that the universe is expanding rapidly and it is outspeeding its own gravitational pull, thus it will not collapse back into a singluarity.
How did that one proto-singularity, out of which all the universe appeared, come into being? I think we are a thousand years too early in asking this question. We are like dogs, trying to comprehend the moon.
My money is between Zeus, Ra, Odin and Tengri. I cannot see anyone less badass creating this universe.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
The perfect scientific assessment of God. The believer would assert that far from being ignored, no other question is as significant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
I take your point, but I would replace 'dogs' with "children." We are not lacking in intelligence, we only suffer a surfeit of ignorance.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Uhm... Last I checked that was just a rival theory.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Leading theory is that dark matter will eventually start bringing things back to the centre, no?
We still have no clue what dark matter is(hence the term "dark"), so any theories on how it ties into the bigger picture is far from complete.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Yeah... I didn't state it as fact, I just think it is currently the leading theory in the circles that have the brain capacity to actually understand this.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
There is a belief that these theories will be the leading theories once we have figured out what dark matter is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
You're jumping the gun a bit, I'm afraid...
We could, after all, end up discovering that there's no such thing as dark matter at all, like how we discovered that light does not need to pass through an aether.
Honestly, I for one don't have the brain capacity to follow a percentile of what those minds are into.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
I deeply respect them though.
So, if universe was infinitely small, and it keeps expanding, does this mean there's an end to it? What's there? I'm imagining Douglas Adams as border guard...
If it keeps expanding it will smear the energy over an ever increasing volume.
Imagine you are in a old cold mansion huddled in a room around a star brand pot belly stove with a single log left to burn. Then one of your companions Lee Expansion starts to open the doors to all the rooms. The room you are in will start to share its heat with all the other rooms and yours will get colder. Also your fuel is running out, and in time the last log burns out leaving the room to cool down. Then Lee starts to open all the windows just to put the boot in and you all freeze to death.
If the universe expands the hydrogen that makes stars will be smeared out over further distances making nebula less and less frequent. Nebula are star nurseries so we will run out of stars and lose our heat sources as the universe gets bigger and bigger. So in the very very far future the universe will be very large but also very cold.
Sounds like nonsense.
Everyone knows the universe was danced into existence and will be danced into annihilation.
Fortunately, everything in between is dancing.
So God already existed before the beginning of time?Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus Fermanagh
For how long?
Yes, the cold death, but what is outside the universe? Beyond the border.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
There is no border, it's a loop.Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
Yes, the universe is expanding, but not out into anything.
Imagine that you blow a balloon up, that is basically what has happened since big bang. The whole "being" of the universe is on the surface/fabric of the balloon.
WE are on the surface / fabric of this balloon, thus our furthest point is the place of origin.
GAH!!
I neither have the English nor brain to explain or grasp all this. I do however do my best to try to explain it to people as stupid as I from the very limited knowledge that I have.
And just like a balloon one day the entire Universe goes "poof" in one Big Rip. Very sad, mostly because it makes human life and existence in general utterly absurd and pointless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
The big rip is one theory...Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Another theory is a universal strive for complexion. The ultimate complexion would be "god".
Couple that with dark matter and a universe that moves out, to move back in, in a more complex state than it was before... And you get close to understanding my "religious" beliefs.
Here's a possible eye opener for the people of a false religion:
An atomic scientist is actually atoms trying to understand themselves.
How's that for a joke :clown:
Reminds me of St Lazarus.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Two points to consider
1) heat death for the natural universe may occur but it might not wipe out life. It may be possible to harvest energy in other ways
2) multiverse and traveling between them. Sure this overgrown marble is dying but we might be able to skip/create other 'verses.
The 2011 Nobel Prize for Physics was given "for the discovery of the accelerating expansion of the Universe through observations of distance supernovae." As it stands right now, whatever dark matter is, it is not sufficient to shrink the universe, as we are talking an acceleration in the growth, not just that it is growing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
There is a distinction made between its size and whether or not it is bounded or unbounded. Basically Earth is finite but unbounded, there is no edge of earth, you just keep walking around. I believe the most popular view right now is that the universe is both infinite and unbounded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Fun stuff we are discovering. People seem to not grasp what is amazing about this.
Before this the furthest back we could "look" is 380,000 years after the big bang, because our "oldest" observations was the Cosmic Microwave Background. Now, with these gravitational waves we have evidence as to what happened during the inflationary period, the inflationary period was anywhere from 10^-36 to 10^-32 seconds after the big bang.
So now we have a better picture of what happened about 0.000000000000000000000000000000000001 seconds after the big bang.
Terry Pratchett wrote about the long-stockings of time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
Basically, every decision ever taken is like dropping a marble down a pair of long-stockings. You don't know which leg the marble is going to come out off, but it doesn't matter as the universe simultaneously is split in two, hence the multiverse.
I don't mean to ridicule you, Pape, it's just the best description of a multiverse I have heard except for the descriptions I don't understand.
So, in one multiverse I am right now having a threesome with Jessica Alba and Alizée in their prime...
However, in this multiverse I am gonna take my White Wolf up to a night run up a mountain, to howl at the full moon - then off to bed... I am more than content :)
No.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
You are right about the prize, but wrong about its implications to what I said.
Easily put: Expansion SHOULD be more rapid from a dark matter point of view.
Don't ask me to explain why, it blows my mind going anywhere near these questions.
Like this?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
http://www.universetoday.com/1455/po...xpanding-into/
Yeah, only that was the same answer but better :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Husar
I think the ratio of neutrons to protons gives a fairly good observation much earlier then 380k years after the Big Bang.Quote:
Originally Posted by a completely inoffensive name
Ooooooh, had not heard about this. You just gave me something new to learn about. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
Just to clarify to people, I like to read a lot about astrophysics, but I don't study it.
Nah. Gravity always pull things together. Dark matter is a crutch to explain why galaxes can keep together. Dark energy is the crutch to explain why the red shift is accelerating (that means that the universe is expanding faster and faster). That's why it's so vague and will probably be another aether.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Atm the estimations shows that about 5% is visual matter, 27% dark matter and 68% is dark energy. That's a lot of "we have no idea".
You guys haven't been paying attention.
Before the Big Bang there was the Q continuum. Any fule knos that.
Oh and 42.
A faulty assumption that is also the basis of the Hawking-Penrose theorem. OP is about finding evidence for the inflation period which is THE explanation of the uniform red shift and the explanation of the flatness/horizon problems with the general BB theory. Inflation needs gravitational force which is not attractive in nature (repulsive). Until one has developed such a theorem (Quantum theory of gravity), it's all hypothetical.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
Fair enough. Outside quantum levels, gravity always act as an attractive force. There's a reason why quantum physics and normal physics haven't been combined yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigurd
Oh well, as I have read it dark matter is the reason things can move out and then retract.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
But let's face it, your guess is as good as mine. And if a fish farts in an aquarium, that is also something we both have to consider as a legit input to the discussion.
No. There are observations that things move out and retract. We can't explain why this is happening, and so we fill in the blanks of our knowledge with "dark matter did it".Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
So The Dark Matter said: "Let there be light!" and there was light. And The Dark Matter saw that that was good.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
You cannot see dark matter if there is no light.Quote:
Originally Posted by rvg
Not really. See they name the unknown based on what it's supposed to do. Dark matter is whatever that's the answer on why the galaxies doesn't win the star throw awards in the olympics. It would affect the retraction, but not the expansion directly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Dark energy influences the expansion directly, but it's something entirely different. It's whatever causing increasing red shift aka accelerating expansion of the universe.
I think you've mixed them together. It's quite easy to do. The one coming up with dark energy were really not thinking about the risk of name mixup, only theme names.
Basically, it goes something like this. The formula used work fine on small scale and large scale, but are completly wrong on gigantic scale. So either the formula is incomplete or you fudge the numbers and acknowledge that you did that and tell everyone that you describe something real that haven't been discovered yet. Sometimes, the rest agrees with you on that. Sometimes, it's even correct.
Campare to "what caused the Big Bang?" There's certainly no seriously taken formulas to calculate that.
it might turn out that the whole idea of a big bang is making us biased and thus leading us into a dead end. We lack the tools and knowledge to look deep down enough, far back enough and so on.
Bollox, the butler did it.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
Other theories have been looked at ie static universe or infinite one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Myth
Big Bang theory explains to a high degree the universe we are in and is the current best fit model. Once a better model comes along the physicists will be all over that just like Lenoardo Dicaprio does with his ones.
Its is all the same one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV
Time to add the god of fertility next to your crucifix then, with its characteristic enlarged size.Quote:
Originally Posted by ICantSpellDawg
Some believe in animal spirits and others do not even have a 'god' as such. Jesus could be a rewriting of Zeus though, but I don't think he was known on cheating on his wife, who may or may not exist due to some.
Long story short, that is a silly statement which lacks understanding of the great diversity of religion. Only one which 'share' are the Christians, Muslims and Jews. Even then, sects of those have difference ideas and views on the makeup of 'god'. Is some one who is doubting the divinity of christ actually believing in the same god as some one who believes Jesus is the embodiment of god?
What defines a 'god' anyway? What if the big bang was an Alien Ships reactor-drive malfunction in a different universe, thus creating a pocket-universe of us. Does that make them 'god' ? or is the creator of the universe who created things which happened outside of their control in turn created us from said aliens given free-will.
The mind boggles on the amount of mental hoops which are completely ignored.
I am sure if there was an afterlife with an omnipotent being, they would be fully understanding of any lack of faith and enlighten us. So no need to worry about your eternal soul.
Religion and mythology blend in the times of antiquity. They used to serve a different purpose in those ancient societies. The plethora of ancients gods, spirits, heroes of old, great foes and so on are archetypes of human behaviour. They tell stories which concern the fundamental characteristics of humans. Religion often intertwined with the cultural rituals which marked the coming of age of young adults - a paramount point in one's life. Ancient religions are multifaceted, because there existed no such phenomenon as globalization back then. Each region, each tribe, each distinct peoples adde their own colour and taste to fundamentally the most basic and eternal of human stories. Love, war, betrayal, coming of age, death, motherhood, cunning etc.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaexz
The organized semitic religions tell us the same stories in a new way, but the rituals no longer serve to bring people closer to earth or to serve as a threshold. Instead, they mainly serve to cement that person within the confines of his/her religion. Compare a ritual "hunt for the great snake" where a boy turns to a man with the baptism of an infant.
But such theological debates are not the purpose of this thread, though I do appreciate them greatly. Also, Zeus was a notorious adulterer - he fathered half the pantheon and Greek heroes, nymphs and very pretty girls. If that's not an excuse for men of power to shag anything that moves, I don't know what is. "Look, Zeus did it. I can't presume I'm better than the Lord of Olympus." :laugh4: