What a horrible tragedy. My condoleances mon sapihis.
Printable View
What a horrible tragedy. My condoleances mon sapihis.
Link?
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-27403061
Over 200 death comfirmed by now, but people are still trapped. What a nightmare.
Tragedy is boundless.
There is a 15-year-old deceased among the ones could be found. Yes, 15 years old.
A friend from Soma, the town where the mine is, says that the death toll easily could top 400-500. The electric transformer underground explodes and the mine goes hell. As of now, the fire was still raging on in the mine. The number of workers in the mine is yet to be revealed. There is so much to be debated yet I don't know if I should feel outraged or sunk in sorrow.
AKP reign has been a period of internalized deaths of women, children, workers and the young. However they are "elected. Over and over.
God deliver us from this disaster and the fool.
My sympathies. A terrible tragedy, indeed.
Almost 800 according to my sources.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
A 15-year old mine worker would mean jail time for the management in the USA.
Mine fires are among the most difficult underground threats to minimize, it has been a problem throughout history.
I will say prayers for those who have died and their families. How horrible.
PM Erdogan who arrived at the "crime scene", Soma, spoke "These are ordinary incidents. There is a reality called industrial accident. It being so severe deeply wounded our hearts."
"These are ordinary incidents"
I agree on being "democraticized" by US Army which does it by screwing up whereever it sets foot. This society so fond of such a stern, insensitive and exploitive can not be screwed up any further anyway.
I want to watch him burn for a thousand hours.
RIP
Not that I like Erdogan or anything, what's this got to do with him? It was a private enterprise, was it not?Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
Workers rights and safety is the responsibility of the state first and foremost, then the company.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
I'm guessing that LEN is arguing for poor government oversight and/or insufficient regulations.
It is the responsibility of the workers first and if the individuals cannot by themselves get sufficient rights then they either give the job away or band together to get those rights.Quote:
Originally Posted by HoreTore
The western governments didn't just spring up with rights for workers. The workers created unions and fought for it and some of the first were similar to these workers in the coal miners who not only fought for their safety then worked hard for schools and other privileges we take for granted.
It's easy to forget that "workers rights" are somewhat new and novel. People fought for it, were imprisoned/beaten for asking for it, and at times died for it.
The history of how we got health and safety regulations is not "reasonable/humane individuals coming to reasonable/humane arrangements"; it was almost revolution :p
Than don't say anything at all, to call this an ordinary incident is more than a little bit thoughtless. That guy isn't quite right in his head if you ask me. What a kick in the face for the mourning families, is that guy absolutily autistic, how can you be so incompassionate unless you are a psychopath. I am in tears when I think of the horrors these people went through, I would expect it must be much harder for someone who is actually from Turkey.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Total freak. Ordinary incident, how can you say that, what an asshole.
Incident would be no harm but could have.
Accident, damage/death of people.
I would say it is an ordinary accident not an extraordinary one nor a purposeful one.
A catastrophic mine explosion and collapse constitutes an "ordinary accident" in a functioning country like a civil war constitutes a "ordinary civil dispute"...
I don't speak Turkish, I don't know how I should interpetrate 'ordinary accident', but it sounds to me that the first thing that came his mind is denying any resposibility. He isn't responsible, but it wouldn't be the first thing that comes into my mind brushing that off in advance. I find it extremily thoughtless, devoid of any empathy for what these people are goibg through.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
“The western governments didn't just spring up with rights for workers.” No they don’t. In fact, for Western governments, flexibility and obeying the so-called “law of the market” is the priority, as workers protection/safety is an obstacle to business and Unions are pest to be eradicated.
My thoughts go to the dead and their families.
You might want to read up about mining in general to see how dangerous it is.Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
Even in the US, Australia and New Zealand mining fatalities still occur.
US was a functioning democracy a hundred years ago and in 1907 they lost over 3,000 miners in one year.
New Zealand had a similar explosion at a much smaller mine in 2010 killed 29 (NZ only has a population of four million)
Mining is dangerous? So is war. Yet hundreds of deaths in a single incident no longer counts as "ordinary" for the West.
Risks change. China is the worst for this sort of thing, and they lost only 1000 miners in 2013.
This accident was ordinary like a mother's death in childbirth is an ordinary death for women.
In China mining disasters are on purpose
It seems premature at this stage to politicize this and blame it on particular parties or politicians. We didn't call for the entire Chilean government to be ousted when they had their disaster a few years back.
IMO cool heads need to prevail over emotional responses at a time like this - let there be a proper investigation, find out who was negligent, and take proper measures based on that.
Although in fairness Erdogan and his crew do seem to have a self-destructive streak. I hope this guy gets slammed for what he did.
If I understand correctly, mine safety has been complained about on politician level for a while now. Erdogan defends himself with "shit happens and has happened in other countries". Outside China, accidents of the same scale did happen for 100+ years ago. That's kind of a poor excuse.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr
But yeah, it's not this alone that drives the protests.
Ok so I see there is a certain inability to comprehend why Erdogan's to be blamed. Let me clarify.
Yes, as Sarmatian pointed out, this is a private enterprise yet the defense comes from the government. Why?
I count it your countries are long far from such relationships however it's still a common practice in Turkey, particularly under a one-party government reigning for 12 years now.
Aggressive privitization specifically implemented by AKP since their first term of governing, generally, if not always, ends up with fake auctions, pre-determined as to who will win it and at what price and it wouldn't be hard to guess what kind of relationship the owners of the companies and the government find themselves in. Ideologically or financially, you have to be close. That's it.
The owner of the mine, Soma Grou, is yet to reveal any declarations however minister of energy is here from the first day. PM visited yesterday, so did president today.
It's been said dozens of times that when AKP held a meeting back in election days, the entrance IDs of the miners were collected from them so as to force them to join the meeting. They were given their ID cards at the end of the meeting. So, if you wouldn't join the rally, you would practically lose your job.
PM, that dog named Erdogan, beat a miner yesterday of which there are video clips getting banned by Youtube the moment it's uploaded.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rk5XZvtj4aM#t=118
If you fastforward to 1.50, you'll see in seconds that he has grabbed someone from the back of the head or the neck and shaking him vigorously with rage.
THAT IS A PM. YES.
And his deputy chief of staff, Yusuf Yerkel, with his photo taken while kicking a protester. Admitted his assault saying that he would make an explanation later. Still in charge:
https://i.imgur.com/GhE9OyD.jpg
That's your newest police state.
Thank you all for promoting a rabid dog in name of bullshit called "moderate Islamism".
I've said it before and I'm saying it again. I want to watch him burn for a thousand hours.
Please don't take this like I'm trying to defend Erdogan, but unless the owner of the mine didn't follow proper security protocols, and was allowed to do so because he was friend of the PM or AKP member, it's not something you can blame the government for. Tragedies, unfortunately, do happen.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
I'm an atheist so I don't pray, but my thoughts are with the miners and their families. That being said, I wish you to get rid of Erdogan as soon as possible.
But that's pretty much what have been said. Privatization by false auction to a friend of Erdogan, complaints that worker safety has dropped after that (from Rhyfelwyr's link). Erdogan goes "shit happens" rather than "such a tradegy shall never happen again and here's the laws to prove it".Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarmatian
Those dots are very easy to connect.
If you can't blame a government for free-market policies anymore, then what the hell can you blame government for?
Ok, ok. I was arguing the principle, not the case, with which admittedly I'm not very familiar with.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
:bow:
Another point, it is said that, as a general practice in Turkey actually, the so-called "audits" were performed with the factory officials informed in advance and very lightly so when performed just to get over with the paperwork.
Edit: A miner just confirmed the known-to-all rumour on a live TV show.
Audits are, as a rule, announced in advance.
Unannounced audits are less common than announced ones.
http://sozcu.com.tr/2014/gundem/erdo...-dovdu-510209/
In the video, at captioned duration, allegedly Erdogan's voice is heard yelling "Why the **** are you running away, you Israeli bastard !".
Apologies from Israeli pals.
Depending on the nature, it can be a emergency "24 hour notice", or if really severe is when they do it unannounced at all.
Yeah, the unannounced ones are usually a case of "let's go shut these buggers down", where they already know things are messed up and are just out to collect evidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiaexz
Not a bad analogy, though not perfect. You are quite right that proper precautions and procedures can greatly reduce the incidence of mining disasters. I don't think we will ever drive the rate of incidence as low as we have that of mothers in childbirth (at least in the West).Quote:
Originally Posted by Montmorency
He isn't quite right in his head. That's quite scary. Knowing Turks here I think he's kinda epecting too much when relying on anti-Isreael statements. I don't know any Turks that hate jews, quite the contrary.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
He is truly becomming a mad dog, a very agressive guy you should be worried about.
A sunni and religious zealot hates Jews because "Qoran reprobates the nation".Quote:
Originally Posted by Fragony
Lets hope the image of his aide kicking a man in the ground like a good Fascist will resurface when he runs for the Presidency.
That's really all I have to say.
It doesn't really make a difference.Quote:
Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla
The low-to middle income class - largest voter group of AKP - worships him. He is a stern leader who mocks any actual and potential opponents, who looks and acts very religious. He is an icon of "middle eastern way of power".
He can't be doing anything wrong and if he does, at least he is an "iconical leader who has done good for the country".
That's not an ampiric generalization - the surveys speak those words.
So, yes, "we are managed as who we are". RTE is not an alien, he grew up in this very nation.
Unrill they find that that there never any economic growth and lot of loans they will have answer for.