Since I'm waiting to hear what others who pulled the trigger on this one thought I figured I'd help things along seeing that no thread had been started yet for this.
So, what do you think so far?
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Since I'm waiting to hear what others who pulled the trigger on this one thought I figured I'd help things along seeing that no thread had been started yet for this.
So, what do you think so far?
Played about 30 minutes before work. Performance is pretty good at least battle-wise, no real bugs that I can see. Campaign and battles loaded rather quickly, havent tried playing a turn yet so I cant comment about the turn length. Night battles actually look really good. Not as dark as I would like it but still a massive improvement over Rome 2's night battles. Love the campaign improvements. The family tree just reminds me so much of the Rome 1 family tree, if not better as its more interactive. The UI is just gorgeous, especially love the seasons wheel. Battle AI doesnt seem dumb as a rock, when they were outnumbered they fled into some woods and hid until I came closer then they sprung something of an ambush. It was pretty nice actually, though I wish units stuck around longer before routing.
Have to work now but I will probably play a bit more later. Overall Im rather pleased.
Music is also top-notch, love the Mongolian throat-singing!
EDIT: another small complaint, I wish we had the banners like we used to have were on the campaign map. On the battle map Im ok with the new icons but on the campaign map I think the older ones were better. Easier to see at a glance how strong the enemy is. Also when you press K to remove the UI I wish the banners were there. This is important for AAR purposes really.
Played 1 turn as the WRE on N/N. Saxons raided Camulodunum. I had only had a vastly outnumbered garrison, but they actually put up a fight: resulted in close defeat. I then managed to easily wipe out the Suebi in a single battle.
The campaign map is beautiful. The family tree and various administrative positions is a major improvement over the simplistic cursus honorum of Rome 2.
I'm not yet sure how hard managing food/religion/public order/squalor/power/dominion/control will be. Off the bat, with something like the WRE, it seems awfully complex but it might be enjoyable. Just expect the first few turns to be rough as you adjust to dealing with a massive wreck of an empire and various new gameplay mechanics.
Overall though, I'd say it's promising.
I intend to run a legendary WRE campaign soon enough (if only to fail miserably, as it should be).
Cant install it as my steam was hacked....... its one thing after another for me lately
Regarding the army icons on the campaign map, check this page out:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hooahguy
http://attila-enc.totalwar.com/#/man...oard_shortcuts
It seems, we just have to retrain our eyes. The info is still there.
Not really what I meant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slaists
This is what I meant:
Here is the current system:
https://i.imgur.com/85rFpnA.png
Here is what happens when you hide the UI:
https://i.imgur.com/syAft3u.png
You can see why this is a problem, since you cant tell anymore how large an army is like you could in previous TW games.
Thought you said, the banners don't display army strength. They still do.
But I get the point about the hidden interface.
Noticed last night just before going to bed that the pre-load had unlocked and was ready to play (after some add'l updating). Decided to stay up for one custom battle. Went with a field battle Saxons vs Franks.
- Unit management in battle seemed pretty much the same.
- My Saxon archers' stats looked okay, but they did diddly-squat for damage. I think the 4 units managed a combined 10 kills or so.
- On the other hand, the Frankish artillery (I think they were ballistae) was devastating.
- Saxon mid-tier spear infantry was sketchy, but pretty effective melee infantry. Which seems to make sense.
- The Saxon cavalry appeared to outclass their Frankish counterparts, which seems kinda backwards. Could've just been the specific unit mix though...I didn't see exactly what kind of cavalry the AI Franks were using.
- The Battle AI seemed to make good use of terrain; ran from their starting position to line up along a subtle hillcrest.
- Didn't notice any performance issues compared to R2
- All in all, pretty happy with the battle side of things, at least as far as open-field goes.
About to get into a campaign now, am sure will have some other comments in a few hours...
So I tried the Prologue, just to get the full exposure experience, and it has been a while since I've TW'd, and so far it has run without a hitch.
Graphics look more like S2 than R2 to me, the interface and icons are much improved from R2 (not a high bar to beat but still), there is more complexity in the management, and the basic starter units performed just as I'd like, although everyone routed in one battle when Chiefy died despite having a clear advantage in numbers and position.
All in all day one no regrets
A futile defence of Camulodunum was also my first experience. The interface and map are very well made. Perhaps the help could explain offices. I turned it off as before. It only seems to tell me things that are obvious. Next I turned to playing the ERE. A fairly big slice of the West is devastated. It is utterly stable for me and whatever the default settings are, work without any slowdown or other problems.
I played about 30 turns last night. It was slow going as I learned about the changes in the game. I started as the Eastern Roman Empire on Hard. I confess I found it a little overwhelming. You are stretched very thin, short on funds, your provinces are generally unhappy, and there are hordes wandering all over Thrace and Macedonia. Battles are fairly straightforward, but there are some nice changes to technology and offices. I found offices to be confusing, though like Patricius said, it is probably explained by the Advisor (the first thing I turn off when I play a new TW title).
My first battle was against a Visigoth horde that I pinned between a garrison and my faction leader's half stack. Numbers were evenly matched. The battle opened with my main army at the base of a hill facing the Visigoth horde. I repositioned half way up the hill, hoping the Visigoths, with their temporary numerical superiority, would attack me up the hill while I waited for my reinforcements. No dice. The moment my reinforcements marched in on the side of the screen, the Visigoths shifted their formation into an "L" facing both of my armies with half of theirs. I must say my first Attila battle was a rude shock. I didn't realize that archers do not begin battles with skirmish enabled (as it always was in the past) and the Visigoth cavalry hit and routed an archer unit from each army before I realized what was going on. Archers are weak and AI cavalry is overly aggressive. After they routed my archers, my spears routed both of their cavalry units off the map. As my two armies closed on their one, they shifted forces again and sent all of their melee (basic pike units) against my main army and then turned all of their archers to fire on my second army. Despite hitting all of their pike units in the flanks or from behind, they rather quickly annihilated most of my spear units. I had to pull my two cavalry units from attacking their archers and send repeated charges into the rear of the pike units to finally break them. Throughout this entire time, the enemy general (a spear unit) refused to engage. Once general melee began, he marched to the edge of the map and sat there while his forces were eventually destroyed. I killed half his unit with archers and then he routed when faced with the remnants of my forces.
My second battle came about as a result of a request from the Western Romans to relieve a siege of one of their cities on the edge of our borders. This siege was also being conducted by a Visigoth horde. Again my forces were made up of two armies, a small WRE garrison and my army. We marched 90% of the way across a completely flat map (no trees, no shrubbery), unable to find the Visigoths. Just before reaching the edge of the map, the Visigoth horde appeared out of nowhere, almost in melee range. Literally. Again, their pikes ripped through my spears units, one of which was my general who ended up dying almost immediately. My whole army routed in the first few minutes before the WRE forces could even cross the map to help.
At this point, I decided to start a campaign as the Sassanids on Hard. Much easier. It gave me time to learn about promotions and integrity and such. There are still hordes to deal with, but the Sassanids don't have the same provincial happiness issues as the Romans. They get a bunch of rebellious client kingdoms instead. There are still things I am learning about and don't fully understand such as integrity. My best general leads an army that has to be continually parked in a city and repeatedly be decimated because their integrity drops so low that I get rebellion warnings over and over. This despite the fact the general has no negative integrity traits. I also get low loyalty warnings, though I haven't figured out how to increase loyalty effectively. Things must be grim to the west, as 30 turns in, I was seeing an Italian faction and WRE Separatist faction.
I really like the complexity of the family tree and governors/offices offers some deeper immersion than previous games. Assigning retainers and deciding what clothing your generals and governors wear (clothing has trait effects, such as a governor getting an architect robe from completing a lot of buildings) also adds variety. It hasn't all been rainbows and unicorns though, I have had some issues. The end of turns seems to take longer than I expected it would and I have had issues with mini-freezes, usually right before I receive a low loyalty warning. I did have one CTD right before finishing playing for the night. Strangely, battles play out seamlessly, while I have noticed slowdown on the campaign map. I have a high end PC and am playing at Ultra setting which was recommended by the game itself. I've also had some issues with constant flickering along the roadways on the campaign map and an artifact of some type that looks like a small DOS window behind both of my priest agents. The only other issue I have noticed so far is that my faction leader has two traits that should be giving influence points per turn, yet his influence stays at 15. This is a problem since most promotions and events require influence points. If you don't have enough influence points, you lose control points. I went from 70% control down to 34% control due to a lack of influence points (mostly being unable to handle rumors/assassinations). Another thing I didn't really improve of was the interaction of my client kingdoms. Despite the tooltip saying that they gain your protection while losing most of their independence, they will almost all cancel their trade agreements with you at the start, and, perhaps most confusingly, they can and will go to war with each other forcing you to choose a side and lose a client. I'm not sure I agree with that level of independence.
I'm happy with the game so far. It's not perfect, but no game ever really is. It does contain enough new content to keep me looking forward to continuing to play.
Nice post, Jacque. I notice that you and I have the same impression of archer effectiveness.
My only experience of the game so far is 7 hours played entirely as the Western Roman Empire. It's extremely challenging on hard campaign / medium battles but not in a frustrating way; rather in a way that makes sense. My empire is pretty much in free-fall on every border. Coastal cities in Britain have been raided to hell and I don't have the money to repair them. Southern Britain is rebellious. Northern Britain is desolate except for one sole county where resides a general and an army big enough to defend that county but not big enough to go on any offensives. May have to abandon northern Britain and try to defend Southern Britain. This is a trend all across the borders of my empire. I have 4 armies large enough to defend specific counties from attack but not large enough to go on an offensive, especially not when there are so many rampaging hordes with such large armies. I gave the Suebians some land in Acquitaine in the hopes that they wouldn't attack me but I don't think it'll stop them. Public order is my main enemy though. Only 4 provinces are stable - Africa, north-east Spain, southern Gaul and the Mediolanum province, the rest are slowly rebelling. All I can do is reinforce my 4 main armies each turn until they're big enough, then go on 4 separate all-out offensives and hope I do enough damage to my enemies that it stabilizes the borders. If that fails the western Roman Empire will be no more.
I can happily report I don't regret paying full price for this game. When I paid full price for Rome 2 on release day my impression was... well... it was probably my most anticipated game in 20-odd years of gaming. I love history, I love strategy, I love the Total War franchise and I totally bought in to the hype surrounding Rome 2. To call it disappointing would be the understatement of the century. I hate that game so much I have vowed never to install it ever again for as long as I might live. Attila, however... I'm having fun. I'm getting the "Just one more turn" feeling.
So after some testing it really does seem that archers do basically no damage against high armor units, even high level archers with heavy shot. For example I had two units of light archers and then two units of heavy archers against a charging unit of the WRE Palatina Guards which have 53 armor and are listed as very heavy infantry. Anyways, they took fewer than 10 casualties before my archers had to withdraw and my spearmen stepped in. And that was with the heavy archers with the heavy shot. The light archers did only about 5 casualties at most from the front. From the side they did much more damage, but thats expected. So basically archers attacking armored infantry with their shields raised is a no-go. And Palatina Guards arent even the best for this kind of stuff, Immortals have 73 armor and bigger shields so good luck hitting them with arrows from the front.
Also on a plus side, I am so happy to see pretty good unit collision now! Much less of an accordion effect. Units who are stationary and then hit by a charging enemy infantry unit keep their formation. If the charge mass is big enough they will be pushed back, but the back rows will hold firm and they wont seek out targets and break formation. I still need to test cavalry charges and collisions.
https://i.imgur.com/RgHwvsB.jpg
Has anyone taken a closer look at the Attila Chronicles feature now that the game is out?
So I've got quite a few hours under my belt and my experience since release has been pretty positive so far. My buddy and I have had several false start Head to Head campaigns. Our first start was as Jutes, him, and Vandals, myself. I was going to try and make a break for the UK dominating that island and using the Vandal navy to hold off the returning romans. Unfortunately that fell apart about 3 turns in after I was surrounded by the enemy and cut down. We then started another game where I tried playing as the Visagoths and he was the Ostrogoths. We pushed out of greece freeing nations as we went. As we marched on rome 4 legions cut our horde in twain and resulted in our demise. We are currently trying our hand as the gothic hordes again. This time we razed Constantinople to the ground and ever since the ERE has been trying to remove us from existence.
First impression of the game are good - battles are too fast but I understand that's been an issue for a number of years, game runs fine on my mid-range system, except for some freezing during the end of a turn and (oddly) during Cinematics.
In terms of the Western Roman Empire, after a few false starts I finally got into the groove but between the silly infantry general and the fact that your starting armies contain no archers (ERE gets archers in it's starting armies by WRE has to tech up and build barracks) the game is turning into a grind.
At one point I actually opted to autoresolve a battle I should have fought simply because it was exactly the same as a battle I had fought 30 seconds before, being another rebellion where the rebels spawned better units than the province can support and attacked my garrison - exactly the same rebel army make up and the same garrison.
As regards the setup on the WRE generally, it's pretty much a death spiral, settlement destroyed by Huns, settlements rebel due to loss of grain, raise taxes to prevent bankruptcy, more settlements rebel, aemies collapse, lose to huns, settlement destroyed, rinse repeat until dead.
Unless you can stop it, which is proving difficult with the poor starting armies you get as the WRE - the lack of archers is real painful, it means your troops are always advancing under fire, you have no fire arrows and no realistic way to defend settlements, most of which lack walls and gates.
Certainly, the post-Apocalyptic feel is very well done, but I have to say, I think the Roman roster has been somewhat unfairly gimped, it's not like it NEEDS to be any harder than it is already.
So...at this point I've completed the Prologue campaign (which has you play the Visigoths; took me about 50 turns) and am 22 turns into a Saxon GC. A few random thoughts, in no particular order:
- Game has been quite stable and non-buggy on my machine. I rather expected this, since TWA is an evolution of R2.
- Desolated areas are annoying. As far as I can tell, a horde army can settle a desolated region, but an established faction cannot expand into one. This doesn't make much sense to me, really. Right now I've got a perfectly good province capital next door that I can't take over unless I migrate...and therefore give up the 4 towns I already have.
- Early missile infantry (at least those available to the Visigoths and Saxons) seem rather ineffectual against quality troops, although they still shred low-end units quite well. My initial impression is that they're more effective in a morale-nerfing role than as outright killers.
- Both the Battle and Campaign AI seem much improved. The Saxons' most obvious first opponent are the Franks next door (and they'll declare on you anyway, so there's not really an alternative). It was a rude awakening; they did a nice job of isolating and destroying my secondary armies...and killing off two of my family members...before my FL finally kicked them out of Flevum.
- The political system is not terribly intuitive. I generally understand the concept of balancing Dominion and Control, but the nuts-and-bolts of actually managing these are not all that clear. That said, it's quite complex and fun. I like how the wives have a much bigger role. And the limited number of family members is a big plus for immersion; there's real risk in losing one in battle. I was forced to adopt an opposing character when FL's heir and son-in-law (both of them without male heirs) were killed in a rather bumpy war with the Franks.
- Agents seem to have a much diminished role in the game. Compared to R2, you have to go much deeper into the tech and building trees before you're able to recruit any at all. I'm sure their presence will increase in the later stages of the campaign, but right now it looks like the "agent spam" of R2 has been reined in a good bit (I hope I don't have to eat those words later...).
- The Prologue campaign is pretty well done. Re-creates the Gothic War of 376AD. Culminates in the Battle of Hadrianople, which you have to win (as the Visigoths, against ERE) to complete the campaign. Even on just Normal difficulty, it's not easy. Took me 5 tries, and even then it was a Pyrrhic Victory. Quite the bloodbath. Rather fun. The Prologue is well worth playing, even if you don't really need the tutorial.
- Fatigue is a bigger deal now. It depletes much more quickly, and seems to have a larger detrimental effect when low. Be stingy with double-click movements of any distance. That said, troops also seem to recover faster to "Fresh" status if they get a chance to stand still for a few moments.
- In the early stages, Sanitation isn't much of a factor. At least, not for small-start factions like the Saxons/Goths. Probably not the case for WRE/ERE/Sassanids.
Overall, I'm pretty happy with my first couple of days of Attila. Game seems release-appropriate polished. I find it more complex, and more challenging, than R2. I found R2 mostly an exercise is carrying out a long-term imperial plan, with few really important campaign decisions...if something didn't work out, it usually didn't hurt too bad, you could just regroup and try again in a few turns. With Attila, you're more scratching for your life, with significant choices and potentially disastrous consequences nearly every turn. And that's with one of the easier factions...you guys playing WRE on higher difficulty levels must be pulling your hair out. Nice job, CA.
I'm around turn 90 in my Sassanid campaign. The Huns swung through eastern Anatolia and burned half the cities on my border with the ERE. I have settled five of those cities. I'm not sure if there is a faction difference, but as the Sassanids, when I mouse over a ruin, I get a sword icon. Right clicking the sword icon on the ruins allows me to colonize the ruin. It costs about 9k on average and half the troops in the army that "attacks" the ruins will become settlers. The building plots slowly regenerate over time as the population grows. On a side note, the ERE sent three legions after the Hun horde that had been destroying their cities. The Huns retreated into my territory and the ERE marched right in after them, having multiple battles with the Huns over several turns, before destroying them and leaving my territory. I'm not really sure how I feel about that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramborough
I'm having a completely different experience with family members. You've only got a few which you need to protect. I have the opposite. My family is so large that I've got innumerable loyalty issues and have fought two civil wars already. Every end of turn is a constant spam of loyalty warnings and illegitimate child births. This brings up my only gripe with the family tree. there is no way to "maximize" it so that you can see everything on it at once. I have to click + drag the tree around the screen to view parts of it.
My first impression was the game is more polished than I tend to expect out of TW games right after release. I have not had any crashes or major bugs occur (that I have noticed). The end of turn speed is ok for me, but does slow down on occasion when my turn comes back around and I have a mission issued.
Replayability seems to be there. I lost steam playing R2 pretty quickly, but I am not as worried about that happening here.
I am playing as the Geats in my first campaign. My quest to ally the norsemen ended up creating a war between the Jutes and the Danes. I ended up allied with the Jutes against the Danes. While fighting the Danes and taking their capital, I noticed the Jutes just up and left as a horde and their capital became a desolute area. This really caught me by suprise as I was counting on their Navy to help me finish of the Danes. Even though I captured their capital, their last stack of the Dane Navy could easliy crush mine.
Then I pretty much bankrupted myself trying to purchase, resettle, and rebuild the desolute area left by the Jutes. (As Jacque stated above it drains about half of your stack's man power and can run 8 to 12k)
I now have mounting unrest, no money to build or add troop strength, and I only have one trade partner left. No one else seems willing to make any deals with me and I have no money to tempt them into diplomacy.
After all this I realized I had ignored the family tree system and my clan seems ready to split down the middle. I have had a lot of fun with the tree so far, but perhaps it would be more tedious if I were the WRE or ERE and had more family members.
So with everything falling apart I mustered the best stack I could and sent them off with my only navy left to raid around Britain. When my naval stack arrived on the other side of Britania I realized I lost most of my sailors and a large part of my army in the 2 to 3 turns of transit. Not sure if this is due to a storm or becuase I didnt hug the coastline when sailing. My ships are so light on crew I am worried I would lose them sailing for home. I think my only option is to take the least defended settlement I can find and replenish my crew and get some more money comming in and then launch raids from my new city to help rebuild my other territories.
So far I would give it an 8 out of 10..... The last time I remember being this hyped playing out of the box was S2TW. My fingers are crossed that the replayability doesnt wear off as I get accustomed to the new additions to the game. At least for now I am really excited to get home and pick up where I left off.
- Anyone can colonize desolated areas if they have cash. At least on very hard difficulty, the AI is doing that. I am playing as Geats colonizing Britain from the South. Midway I met up with Pitcs who were doing the same from the North.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramborough
- There are some multiplayer youtube videos analyzing units. It seems, the only missile types effective against quality armored troops are crossbows (and javelins).Quote:
- Early missile infantry (at least those available to the Visigoths and Saxons) seem rather ineffectual against quality troops, although they still shred low-end units quite well. My initial impression is that they're more effective in a morale-nerfing role than as outright killers.
- The AI seems really focused on the player. If they declare war on you they will come after you no matter from how far away.Quote:
- Both the Battle and Campaign AI seem much improved. The Saxons' most obvious first opponent are the Franks next door (and they'll declare on you anyway, so there's not really an alternative). It was a rude awakening; they did a nice job of isolating and destroying my secondary armies...and killing off two of my family members...before my FL finally kicked them out of Flevum.
- I guess, the family member situation is quite random. In my Geats campaign I had a rather broad family from the start. By the time the third generation started multiplying, browsing of the family tree (to find who is unemployed, disloyal, etc.) became horrid. The tree is not really designed for a rapidly expanding family. Having all family members displayed also in a list format would be highly helpful. They already have it for non-members so would not be a huge leap of design to implement.Quote:
- The political system is not terribly intuitive. I generally understand the concept of balancing Dominion and Control, but the nuts-and-bolts of actually managing these are not all that clear. That said, it's quite complex and fun. I like how the wives have a much bigger role. And the limited number of family members is a big plus for immersion; there's real risk in losing one in battle. I was forced to adopt an opposing character when FL's heir and son-in-law (both of them without male heirs) were killed in a rather bumpy war with the Franks.
- You can also marry your family's young females to your opposition generals. This turns the general into a family member.
- Agents are crucial for keeping PO (more than in R2) and stopping/controlling AI army spam. In my first try, I did not realize you need very specific buildings to get agents and it bit me. I abandoned that campaign and in the new one beelined for agents. It is easy to get them (within 10-15 turns) if you aim for it.Quote:
- Agents seem to have a much diminished role in the game. Compared to R2, you have to go much deeper into the tech and building trees before you're able to recruit any at all. I'm sure their presence will increase in the later stages of the campaign, but right now it looks like the "agent spam" of R2 has been reined in a good bit (I hope I don't have to eat those words later...).
- A crucial thing with agents is that, at least for barbarians, they are only available from province capital buildings. So, if you only have minor settlements: no agents for you...
Sanitation is a curious beast. I got sickness in one settlement and it gave me -1 to PO and -1 to growth. So, it seems, you can pretty much ignore sanitation in select areas. Effects on armies are bad though. So, keep your troops out of squalor.Quote:
- In the early stages, Sanitation isn't much of a factor. At least, not for small-start factions like the Saxons/Goths. Probably not the case for WRE/ERE/Sassanids.
@Jacque and Slaists, yep, some time after I wrote that post, I realized that the reason I couldn't move into that desolated capital was because of the exorbitant cost to do so (16K+ in this case). Which also explains why no one else has moved in to fill that vacuum. I guess I'm more content now with the concept of this particular mechanic...but still wonder if maybe they should fine-tune it by tweaking the cost down a bit.
I can see how early impressions of things like sanitation, family tree size, and a whole host of other things would be completely different for the big factions, compared a single-town-start faction like Saxons. Although I do think it's weird that Slaists' Geats (also a small-start) apparently had a more robust starting family.
For comparison's sake, I started with 3 male family members (one FL, one son FH, and one son-in-law), two of whom had wives (and I managed to fumble away 2 of the 3 guys in the early going, as earlier mentioned). I infer, Slaists, that your Geat family was larger than that?
My problem is that the upgrade system in the game locks out certain units. For example Limitani were the most numerous troops type of the Late Roman Empire, they featured prominently in every campaign waged in the West...yet they just disappear. Worse still in some circumstances the new troops upkeep,doesn't seem to be displayed,so I don't know what the upgraded troops are going to cost in upkeep.
Also Techs should not upgrade units to a different type. The gothic warband->falxmen were named as an example. Axemen to swordsmen is fine, as would be a two-handed axemen to a falxmen or something, but weapon and board units should be replaced with weapon and board, while two handed units should be replaced with two handed units. For this particular example I suggest adding falxmen as a unit unlocked by the technology but not replacing other units.
There's a 16 page thread on it here http://forums.totalwar.com/showthrea...d-game./page13. I don't like this at all,as ca said in a lengthy response that it was "Quote:
TLDR: This is a key difference with ATTILA to previous TWs, you have to think and plan far more for the mid-end game. Balance your tech research, carefully consider your trade-offs.
It's CA catering to the people who want armies composed of awesome looking hollywood badasses. I shit you not I've seen people asking why Spartan Warriors aren't in the ERE roster. It's heart breaking.
Thing is, you could have designed to both, they aren't mutually exclusive. You can have elites and the garrison style units.
I have been seeing these complaints about unit upgrades and frankly I am confused. I do not see a difference between Atilla and Rome2 in this feature. As Rome when I researched the tech for legions I could no longer recruit Hastati/triarii etc., but I could keep the existing unit as long as I wanted. In Atilla as ERE it works the same way, I do not have to upgrade my existing Limitani but I cannot recruit new ones after researching the tech. This to me is simply a way of showing progression from older tech to newer. Are some of the unit upgrades illogical? Perhaps but the basic mechanics of it seem the same to me. Is it different for other factions or am I missing something else?
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Did you read the thread linked above?
I read a bit of it, it's gotten a bit long. I agree that some of the details don't make sense where units completely change weapon types etc. But I still don't see how the basic mechanic is different. You didn't get to keep recruiting Hastati so why should you get to keep recruiting Limitanei?Quote:
Originally Posted by easytarget
It's true that the Attila mechanic works just the same way that the Roman legionary mechanic worked in R2. In R2, however, only Roman legionary infantry (and I think a cavalry unit also?) worked this way. It was a faction-specific mechanic meant to reflect a particular historical event: the Marian Reform. It wasn't the norm; other factions' unit rosters didn't progress in the same manner. So the main difference in Attila is that most (maybe all?) factions' militaries seem to upgrade that way now; it has become the norm.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyavash
Overall, I'm not sure I have a huge problem with it. It does affect my basic playstyle a bit. In R2, I would have high-end armies for conquest & hot-spot defense, and other low-end armies composed of earlier cheaper units, mainly for public order. A good place to put opposing-family generals. And a good way to avail myself of the maximum number of armies allowed by imperium level, without putting undue strain on my economy. It'll be a little harder to maintain my "high/low" mix of armies in Attila, since many of the earlier/cheaper units will have disappeared from the recruiting menu in the mid-to-late campaign. But I'm sure I'll figure out a way to do it.
Not really sure these fit as "First Impressions". But this still seems an appropriate place to mention new wrinkles discovered while playing through first Attila campaign...
First, Imperium level now also increases by tech research, in addition to territorial gains. And imperium increase seems to be triggered either by completing one of the eight research sections, or possibly by researching one of those few key techs which require money rather than time to unlock. In my case, two of those techs also happened to be the last tech in the section I was researching, so not sure which specific action caused the imperium jump.
Second, land-locked settlements have gained an extra building slot, compared to their R2 predecessors. Non-port capitals and towns now have 6 and 4 slots respectively, rather than 5/3 as in R2. So port settlements are no longer inherently more valuable because of that extra port slot. This makes good sense to me. In R2, we had to juggle Food and P.O. Attila adds Sanitation as a 3rd ball we have to keep in the air, so that extra building slot is a big help.
That's great but as as the Jutes, an entire unit - Drekkar Dragonship Nordic Marauders is actually unrecruitable most of the time....why?
Because early on you unlock a technology that upgrades Nordic Marauders to Nordic Heavy Marauders. The tech for Drekkar Dragonships is much, much later than that on the tech tree - so when you do finally get there and build a level 3 Military port - the ship cant be recruited!!
You have to wait another 20 turns or so to get the next tech along and then upgrade the port AGAIN to get Drekkar Dragonship Nordic Heavy Marauders - which means 1 unit and 1 building tier is actually pointless.
Did Ca actually consider the unit upgrade system before implementing it, I may ask?
Firstly, lots of the unit upgrades in Rome 2 were there to represent the progression of soldiers over a period of almost 3 centuries. For the Romans this was the Marian reform. For Gauls and other "barbarians" it was to represent the reforms they went through after facing the Romans. The Gauls especially really tried to reform their armies to meet the Romans toward the end, before Caesar subdued them. Armour got heavier, as did tactics. Greece and Macedonia went through some pretty heavy reforms after fighting (and losing badly) against Rome as well. For Greece they leaned more heavily of peltasts, which are basically legionaries once you put some chainmail on them (which they did) and Macedonia did the same - their main battle line was the Phalanx but they increased the numbers of more mobile units. Seleukids, toward the end, relied heavily on a kind of imitation legionnaire, a heavy peltast. Also when they came in to contact with the Parthians their cavalry went through a reform and got mega heavy. Carthage and the Ptolemaic Egypt also reformed after getting humiliated by Rome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seyavash
What's this supposed to represent in Attila though? Was there really huge military reform of everybody from 395 AD to 415 AD? Did Rome all of a sudden stop being able to recruit the typical late legionary and replace them with an ultra elite herculian megaman, then forget all about the bread and butter of their armies? Why would the Steppe nations start paying double the upkeep for a horse archer that has 3 more melee defence than the previous iteration? Or the Germans paying twice the upkeep for a new noble infantry unit that only has a couple more melee attack than the last one? And why would any nation all of a sudden be forced to recruit only the new elite unit but forget entirely about the mid-range, bread and butter unit that it replaced?
When did any army ever have more than about 20 or 30% elite troops? None, to my knowledge. The Romans in the late empire barely even had any legionaries. The core would have been legionnaires, the rest were "barbarian" allies, especially the cavalry. Yet the WRE can't even recruit foederati at the start of the game. I unlocked the whole first section of the military tree and all it gave me was an slightly upgraded border unit and legio, a cohort but with a couple extra melee attack and defence. But by the end I'll be recruiting almost entirely Herculiani elite troops.
There is a trick to colonizing: the larger is the size of the army you are colonizing with the smaller is the cost for doing so. The mechanic is that part of your army settles in the colony and drives the cost down. So, a full stack of the cheapest yet largest size units (avoid cavalry, dogs, etc.) you get is the most cost efficient way to do so (the cost is around 8K for me).Quote:
Originally Posted by Bramborough
Yes, my Geats start with quite a large family (several members idle) + some marriage age ladies to spare. I believe, several of king's offspring had their own children at the start of the campaign already.Quote:
I can see how early impressions of things like sanitation, family tree size, and a whole host of other things would be completely different for the big factions, compared a single-town-start faction like Saxons. Although I do think it's weird that Slaists' Geats (also a small-start) apparently had a more robust starting family.
For comparison's sake, I started with 3 male family members (one FL, one son FH, and one son-in-law), two of whom had wives (and I managed to fumble away 2 of the 3 guys in the early going, as earlier mentioned). I infer, Slaists, that your Geat family was larger than that?
I'm considering purchasing Attila, haven't pre-ordered because I wasn't sure whether my computer would hold up to it, but my question revolves around the ERE.
How balanced is the unit roster?
Back in the RTW BI times, they were equal to the Sassanids.
All right, I purchased ATTILA. Hopefully it will be a blast and that the Byzantines / ERE will be at least as much fun as they were in RTW:BI.
Brace yourself ;) for the Sassanid spam.Quote:
Originally Posted by edyzmedieval
Sassanid spam was actually present in RTW:BI as well, 75% of my battles were fought with them. So yeah, I have previous experience. :grin: