10 years

And I think I know less than I did when I started.

Also Louis forever.

Where is he always wondered why he stopped posting, he was hilarious

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

Where is he always wondered why he stopped posting, he was hilarious

---

Ashes to ashes and all that. I find myself agreeing with Panzer more often too, how terribly passe :(

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

Ashes to ashes and all that.

---

I hope that doesn't mean what it sounds like

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

I hope that doesn't mean what it sounds like

---

It's a metaphor. I have no contact with the man. I can't speak to his health. I like to think he is in a little chateau in the loire. Turning pages at his leisure, not a care in the world.....naked.

We are all richer for your presence :2thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

.naked.

---

That scares me...

... but, I'm certain he's doing all that on taxpayers time.

I think my ideas have evolved in my time on here, been near enough 10 years for me as well.

Who's that in the new avatar?

It's good when your ideas evolve, I wouldn't want to be reminded of some things I said years ago. It's a shame Tribes left because in hindsight I cannot disagree with him. 10 years are a lot in internet-time.

I don't think my ideas have changed particulary much over the last 10 years. Five years before that (when I joined here) I used to be a borderline communist, but I wasn't here to bother you all with it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Rhyfelwyr

I think my ideas have evolved in my time on here, been near enough 10 years for me as well.

Who's that in the new avatar?

---

*raises hand*

It's William T. Sherman. Thought it was odd at first, coming from STFS.

Ive done basically a 180 on most issues so... great success! Now give me another eight years here and Im sure I will have done a full 360.

:2thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

And I think I know less than I did when I started.

Also Louis forever.

---

Congrats you whippersnapper you. See i was here whole three months earlier...~;) And yes.We all miss Louis..:shame:

Hey, congrats SFTS! 10 years here as well. Doesn't seem like it's been that long. :2thumbsup:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kagemusha

And yes.We all miss Louis..:shame:

---

Especially at night :smitten:

Maybe if we all stalk him like a ditched girlfriend with no self respect and beg him to come back... ?

Congrats on your tenure... Yes terrible pun

Time flies when you're having fun. i think Congrats Strike! :cheerleader:

Strike is old, and so am I....

BUT STILL WE ARE NO RESPECTABLE!

Congrats Strike. Your opinions and perspectives have only become more nuanced and thought out over time.

Quote:

---

Your opinions and perspectives have only become more nuanced and thought out over time.

---

Of course brevity, to a point, becomes indistinguishable from lack of wit. ~:flirt:

From my perspective, Louis was more or less a victim of Banquos Ghost (BQ henceforth).

BQ handled the backroom in a VERY self centered way, throwing out warnings left and right if something didn't suit him, and letting things pass that suited him.

Louis was a free thinker and always challenging his surroundings, and we loved him for it. Heck, I loved him for it, eventhough we often argued.

It came to a point where the Backroom more or less rebelled against BQ, unfortunately, Louis posts became the battleground.

It was just SO DAMN OBVIOUS that the mod played with hidden cards, unfortunately louis posts were used to highlight it, and the forum at large had to step in to quench it...

And that's why it turned to **** and we lost one of our best posters.

I miss Louis a lot, even to this day. He was just collateral damage in the war against BQ.

For me as a person I much prefer the forum post BQ though... I think BQ gave me as many warnings a month as I have gotten since BQ got pushed away... Some several years ago. The Backroom modertaion is actually the last years the best moderation I have seen on any internet forum I have ever been to.. So cheers for that!!

But yeah... A Backroom with todays mods AND Louis would of course have been the best. And honestly speaking, it WAS rather pettty of him to just quit... I would cry for him, but real men don't.




EDIT: Those who have only been here for 10 years are still newcomers in my eyes :p


EDIT2: sorry for grammar and spelling, I am out on the countryside with a laptop from the time when vampires didn't glitter in the sun

Ah, the 10 year club. Do we count as the Old Guard of the Org now? ~;)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Montmorency

Of course brevity, to a point, becomes indistinguishable from lack of wit. ~:flirt:

---

You are giving away the game my friend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

From my perspective, Louis was more or less a victim of Banquos Ghost (BQ henceforth).

BQ handled the backroom in a VERY self centered way, throwing out warnings left and right if something didn't suit him, and letting things pass that suited him.

Louis was a free thinker and always challenging his surroundings, and we loved him for it. Heck, I loved him for it, eventhough we often argued.

It came to a point where the Backroom more or less rebelled against BQ, unfortunately, Louis posts became the battleground.

It was just SO DAMN OBVIOUS that the mod played with hidden cards, unfortunately louis posts were used to highlight it, and the forum at large had to step in to quench it...

And that's why it turned to **** and we lost one of our best posters.

I miss Louis a lot, even to this day. He was just collateral damage in the war against BQ.

For me as a person I much prefer the forum post BQ though... I think BQ gave me as many warnings a month as I have gotten since BQ got pushed away... Some several years ago. The Backroom modertaion is actually the last years the best moderation I have seen on any internet forum I have ever been to.. So cheers for that!!

But yeah... A Backroom with todays mods AND Louis would of course have been the best. And honestly speaking, it WAS rather pettty of him to just quit... I would cry for him, but real men don't.




EDIT: Those who have only been here for 10 years are still newcomers in my eyes :p


EDIT2: sorry for grammar and spelling, I am out on the countryside with a laptop from the time when vampires didn't glitter in the sun

---

Bit too harsh on BG, he just liked good behaviour. when I got a warning I already knew I had gone too far and that it would be comming very soon. I like the loose style of the current moderators though

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

From my perspective, Louis was more or less a victim of Banquos Ghost (BQ henceforth).

BQ handled the backroom in a VERY self centered way, throwing out warnings left and right if something didn't suit him, and letting things pass that suited him.

Louis was a free thinker and always challenging his surroundings, and we loved him for it. Heck, I loved him for it, eventhough we often argued.

It came to a point where the Backroom more or less rebelled against BQ, unfortunately, Louis posts became the battleground.

It was just SO DAMN OBVIOUS that the mod played with hidden cards, unfortunately louis posts were used to highlight it, and the forum at large had to step in to quench it...

And that's why it turned to **** and we lost one of our best posters.

I miss Louis a lot, even to this day. He was just collateral damage in the war against BQ.

For me as a person I much prefer the forum post BQ though... I think BQ gave me as many warnings a month as I have gotten since BQ got pushed away... Some several years ago. The Backroom modertaion is actually the last years the best moderation I have seen on any internet forum I have ever been to.. So cheers for that!!

But yeah... A Backroom with todays mods AND Louis would of course have been the best. And honestly speaking, it WAS rather pettty of him to just quit... I would cry for him, but real men don't.




EDIT: Those who have only been here for 10 years are still newcomers in my eyes :p


EDIT2: sorry for grammar and spelling, I am out on the countryside with a laptop from the time when vampires didn't glitter in the sun

---

Eh, I don't remember it like that. For one thing, Loius went into self-imposed exiled after he crossed the line whilst being a moderator. As I recall, and it's been a few years, all that was done to Loius was that he was stripped of his mod title - then he left.

I also don't remember Banquo being "Forced out", as I recall he'd retired at least once before the whole Loius thing kicked off and was basically dragged back into the Backroom because it'd became too rowdy. It's not fair to single out his moderating style, either, because it was the same as Kukri's or BKS' All the mods were harsh and they strictly enforced "gentlemanly" behaviour. In generally I would say the Backroom benefited from that, because it enforced a standard of debate and I have several times argued that things should be tighter than they currently are.

As far as I'm concerned both Loius and Bonquo raised the debate and the atmosphere here, and I miss both of them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Eh, I don't remember it like that. For one thing, Loius went into self-imposed exiled after he crossed the line whilst being a moderator. As I recall, and it's been a few years, all that was done to Loius was that he was stripped of his mod title - then he left.

---

While I agree with you that Banquo did a fine job, I definitely don't agree that Louis crossed the line. It was a jest, there was no insulted party, only a certain member who was more of a troll at the time (and who shall remain unnamed in this instance) demanded strict and vigorous punishment out of spite and pettiness.

If we had applied the rules that rigorously, we'd all be banned by now.

Louis didn't leave because he was insulted, but because he didn't want to remain here if that was the standard. I maybe wouldn't have made the same choice, but in principle he was 100% right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

While I agree with you that Banquo did a fine job, I definitely don't agree that Louis crossed the line. It was a jest, there was no insulted party, only a certain member who was more of a troll at the time (and who shall remain unnamed in this instance) demanded strict and vigorous punishment out of spite and pettiness.

If we had applied the rules that rigorously, we'd all be banned by now.

Louis didn't leave because he was insulted, but because he didn't want to remain here if that was the standard. I maybe wouldn't have made the same choice, but in principle he was 100% right.

---

Your discussion is on the first page of the Watchtower, isn't it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pannonian

Your discussion is on the first page of the Watchtower, isn't it?

---

Don't know, haven't visited Watchtower in ages. Possibly.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

Eh, I don't remember it like that. For one thing, Loius went into self-imposed exiled after he crossed the line whilst being a moderator. As I recall, and it's been a few years, all that was done to Loius was that he was stripped of his mod title - then he left.

I also don't remember Banquo being "Forced out", as I recall he'd retired at least once before the whole Loius thing kicked off and was basically dragged back into the Backroom because it'd became too rowdy. It's not fair to single out his moderating style, either, because it was the same as Kukri's or BKS' All the mods were harsh and they strictly enforced "gentlemanly" behaviour. In generally I would say the Backroom benefited from that, because it enforced a standard of debate and I have several times argued that things should be tighter than they currently are.

As far as I'm concerned both Loius and Bonquo raised the debate and the atmosphere here, and I miss both of them.

---

Ban-queue's Ghost (see what I did there) :drummer: was someone I disagreed with as a moderator, to be frank. He played with favourites and had a 100% self-view agenda.

His reign ended when he wanted visitors on the board to somehow, like, DEEPLY respect the 3000 persons killed in the 11/9 attacks (see what I did there, again?).

Louise left when he realized he did not, actually, have free reign.

Congratulations SFTS.
10 years is a lot on the internets.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

While I agree with you that Banquo did a fine job, I definitely don't agree that Louis crossed the line. It was a jest, there was no insulted party, only a certain member who was more of a troll at the time (and who shall remain unnamed in this instance) demanded strict and vigorous punishment out of spite and pettiness.

If we had applied the rules that rigorously, we'd all be banned by now.

Louis didn't leave because he was insulted, but because he didn't want to remain here if that was the standard. I maybe wouldn't have made the same choice, but in principle he was 100% right.

---

You know, I don't exactly remember what Loius said but I remember it made me feel a little ill. It was bad enough that I thought it demonstrated he shouldn't be a mod, but far from being ban-worthy.

I think Kad's recollection is clouded by who he was at the time, to be honest, I got several warning from Banquo and Kad probably thinks I was one of his favourites.

I was just terrified of him the way I was my headmaster.

Getting really curious now, wtf happened can I get a discrete summary. I never understood why Louis suddenly stopped posting, I never noticed anything wrong between anyone. Me and Tribes perhaps and I really regret how that turned out, but that's about it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Philipvs Vallindervs Calicvla

You know, I don't exactly remember what Loius said but I remember it made me feel a little ill. It was bad enough that I thought it demonstrated he shouldn't be a mod, but far from being ban-worthy.

---

We have some rules, so I cannot go into full details, but I will clear something up.

Louis was not banned from the Org, his choice to leave was his free will and isn't/hasn't been barred from coming back at anytime.

Banquo had nothing to do with Louis leaving. I'll leave it at that.

The Marquis de Sade terrified people. Brilliant guy. I wouldn't give Louis the same credits but those who have no sense of humour and can't sense what should be pefectly obvious and harmless sarcasm all the less aren't getting any regardless. I miss AdrianII as well, sarcasm wasn't his thing but he sure was good at being arrogant, and that isn't in any way an insult, just an acknowledgement of decorum.

Banquo was a scholar and a gentleman.

Louis was funny and a good soul.

I miss Pindar too. Doubt he misses me though...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Papewaio

Banquo was a scholar and a gentleman.

Louis was funny and a good soul.

I miss Pindar too. Doubt he misses me though...

---

Strictly speaking, Banquo was a scholar and a nobleman...

Looking back at how I conducted myself...19 was a very angry age for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kralizec

Banquo had nothing to do with Louis leaving. I'll leave it at that.

---

False. I'll leave it at that.

Reminds me, I miss AdrianII as well, the smug bastard. We live in the same town and I have known that he frequently visits the same place I do for years, and he knows that as well. Unspoken gentlemen's agreement that we don't know, could have sat right next to him so many times.

I miss Red, don't remember his full name. Captain in the US Artillery. Hard to debate with, you made one approximation or miss one comma, and bang, you were in trouble... Wife bi-polar, if I remember well. But what a debater...

I miss Tribesman.

:laugh4::laugh4::laugh4::laugh4:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

I miss Tribesman.

---

I just reopened the tab to write that. He was mostly right, not always but mostly.
Unfortunately his sense for justice was so strong that he could not stay among people who are often wrong.

I remember hating his guts so much when I first came here. Then as my views changed I didnt hate him nearly as much. Then he left, much to my disappointment.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

I just reopened the tab to write that. He was mostly right, not always but mostly.
Unfortunately his sense for justice was so strong that he could not stay among people who are often wrong.

---

Threatening with comming to your house to 'pay you a littlle visit' ain't nice though. I am sorry about how things went. I was just trolling Tribes when I reported him but Tosa(rip) took it really serious. I tried to undo it because it was probably just a drunk action to threaten me but it was too late, things were set into motion. Tosa forwarded a mail of mine in which I asked him to come back but Tribes felt like the org staff had sided with me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Brenus

I miss Red, don't remember his full name. Captain in the US Artillery. Hard to debate with, you made one approximation or miss one comma, and bang, you were in trouble... Wife bi-polar, if I remember well. But what a debater...

---

Redleg ,i remember him too. Very strict fellow, but i remember admiring his sense of justice and common sense.:yes:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

False. I'll leave it at that.

---

Really? That's not how I remember it, but nevermind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kralizec

Really? That's not how I remember it, but nevermind.

---

I am curious with the connection myself, but it could have a reference to Louis-gate...

There was a theme that Moderators were seen as 'above' the law and a couple of examples which received majority of the stink were by BQ and Louis. In their separate ways, they received the brunt of the 'attack' which BQ retired and led to Louis-gate.

I missed all of this but I liked BG, he was a gentleman who insisted on courtious behaviour. Nothing wrong with that.

unreal that Fragony of all people doesn't know what the joke was that led to Louis getting tossed.

the staff got trolled very hard by a loser who had an axe to grind with Louis. the staff took the troll's side. it's grated on me since but for some reason, probably my nostalgia from the Rome 1 era of the forum, I took a role back here. I've sat here half heartedly barely moderating much and I attribute most of that discouragement to the way the admins handled Louis and BG. I'm a pretty big coward for having done this. I'm sorry to you all

anyway, 10 years. it's largely due to this backroom that I've gone from a raging Conservative Club (lol) member to spending free time on grass roots efforts for Sanders. I learned a lot back here and am very grateful to have found this place at an age when I needed it most.

My feelings exactly. I pop in to check in on my favorite British posters. Most everyone else I have other ways to contact. Well that and being a creature of habit.

The backroom has always been sort of an aberration on what is (was?) a hardcore mod forum for a hardcore fan base of a niche (well was) game. Louis and Banqou ended up not meshing with these friendless Virgins and faux demagogues and left. Presumably because they are well adjusted adults with hobbies and girlfriends.

Im over it. This place is a habit of nothing else.

Quite frankly, I never wanted Louis to leave, but he did show behaviour that was not okay, especially not for a moderator.
As Tiaexz says, an "okay, that was not a great idea" might have helped here and there.

I don't even remember the joke, I can take jokes perfectly fine. This is a sad outcome of something perfectly innocent.

I'll take it as a compliment that Louis never explained anything to me

edit: just to make it clear, I have no idea what joke it was, probably a funny one. I have no idea who took offence, and who caused any trouble. I just learned now it was because of a joke against me, but I had absolutily nothing to do with it.

Well out of the two categories Strike listed, I'm glad I'm not in the friendless virgin camp.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fragony

I don't even remember the joke, I can take jokes perfectly fine. This is a sad outcome of something perfectly innocent.

I'll take it as a compliment that Louis never explained anything to me

edit: just to make it clear, I have no idea what joke it was, probably a funny one. I have no idea who took offence, and who caused any trouble. I just learned now it was because of a joke against me, but I had absolutily nothing to do with it.

---

It was not just one single thing, the joke towards you was neither the beginning nor the end of it and it is correct that you had not much to do with it. There was a conflict in terms of rules. Should we allow mods to say things members are not allowed to say or should we allow it because it was a joke? In the first case the members would complain that mods have special rights in terms of speech and in the letter case, members could insult eachother and then claim it was a joke. That was more or less how it began and was endlessly debated until it actually escalated. As long as there was just a debate, noone was going to get fired, that only came up when instead of apologizing and forgetting about it, Louis decided to one-up his questionable approach to the matter in order to prove some kind of point that he was right.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

It was not just one single thing, the joke towards you was neither the beginning nor the end of it and it is correct that you had not much to do with it. There was a conflict in terms of rules. Should we allow mods to say things members are not allowed to say or should we allow it because it was a joke? In the first case the members would complain that mods have special rights in terms of speech and in the letter case, members could insult eachother and then claim it was a joke.

---

Bollox. I've learned some things in the meantime (and Prole's post confirmed it), and it had nothing to do with that. We've allowed far worse before and since with no consequences. I can't even blame ACIN any more. If it hadn't been him, it would've been something else.

In one single stroke of pettiness, we were robbed of BQ, Louis and Adrian, certainly among our best and brightest. It's a disgrace and someone should at least be a man and own up to it instead of hiding behind "we don't want to reveal anything out of respect to them".

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Proletariat

unreal that Fragony of all people doesn't know what the joke was that led to Louis getting tossed.

the staff got trolled very hard by a loser who had an axe to grind with Louis. the staff took the troll's side. it's grated on me since but for some reason, probably my nostalgia from the Rome 1 era of the forum, I took a role back here. I've sat here half heartedly barely moderating much and I attribute most of that discouragement to the way the admins handled Louis and BG. I'm a pretty big coward for having done this. I'm sorry to you all

anyway, 10 years. it's largely due to this backroom that I've gone from a raging Conservative Club (lol) member to spending free time on grass roots efforts for Sanders. I learned a lot back here and am very grateful to have found this place at an age when I needed it most.

---

Glad to see you still around. Chatroom nostalgia is the only reason I'm still around here. I also enjoy reading the threads here in the Backroom, but I don't really post. It's just become something of a habit for me to visit. Maybe I'm just hoping that I'll see some people from way back post again. People who were hilarious and smart, and I learned a lot from about a lot of different things. I really miss those people... There's still a few around, but a lot are gone. I'm not sure where I was going with this really, just miss the good ole days. I don't have any idea what happened to Louis, I've always wondered about that. He seemed like a really good guy from what I could tell, really funny as well.

tl;dr Sad nostalgia

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

In one single stroke of pettiness, we were robbed of BQ, Louis and Adrian, certainly among our best and brightest. It's a disgrace and someone should at least be a man and own up to it instead of hiding behind "we don't want to reveal anything out of respect to them".

---

Just a question, do you think it is appropriate to discuss some of the more private interactions with members (like Louis)..
1) without their their permission.
2) in circumstances they cannot refute, deny or defend statements.

Because honestly, in my opinion, that is a can of worms that shouldn't be opened.

Could someone please just tell us non veterans what happened with Lois?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

It was not just one single thing, the joke towards you was neither the beginning nor the end of it and it is correct that you had not much to do with it. There was a conflict in terms of rules. Should we allow mods to say things members are not allowed to say or should we allow it because it was a joke? In the first case the members would complain that mods have special rights in terms of speech and in the letter case, members could insult eachother and then claim it was a joke. That was more or less how it began and was endlessly debated until it actually escalated. As long as there was just a debate, noone was going to get fired, that only came up when instead of apologizing and forgetting about it, Louis decided to one-up his questionable approach to the matter in order to prove some kind of point that he was right.

---

Not 'not much to do with it', but 'anything at all'. I just heard about it now

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Just a question, do you think it is appropriate to discuss some of the more private interactions with members (like Louis)..
1) without their their permission.
2) in circumstances they cannot refute, deny or defend statements.

---

1) Those mentioned already proved they don't care what happens here by leaving and never looking back.

2) There's no need for you to give us your version - simply post the thread or threads from moderator's private garden here and allow everyone to draw conclusions for themselves.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Could someone please just tell us non veterans what happened with Lois?

---

Read Prole's post. The only detail omitted is that a rather big part of the .Org staff (mostly those not involved in the backroom) were just waiting for an opportunity and ACIN delivered it to them on a silver platter. Louis and Banquo left and Adrian followed suit after learning the reasons of their decision.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Greyblades

Could someone please just tell us non veterans what happened with Lois?

---

Here are threads related to Louis-gate.

BQ complaining one
Initial Thread
The Louis post in question.
One of the later Louis topics

There are a few deleted posts, and a few threads by Louis with creative titles involving a certain word. But that should cover the jist.

Edit: For context, the Org was very strict back then on words. I myself received an infraction for using the word 'Damn'.

In addition to the above, here's a choice Watchtower thread from several months after the issue.

As somebody who was an active staff member at the time this went down, I'm going to respect the rules of not discussing what went on behind the scenes, but a couple of quotes from the linked thread do a good job of summing it up:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

Some people see the org as a place where they hang out and chat with other people they like chatting with, and see the rules as being useful to the extent that they allow this to happen without much fuss. Other people imagine that the whole business of who broke a rule and whether there is fairness or bias etc is extremely important and worth pages and pages of internet drama, with accusations and demands for apology and orgies of hand-wringing. These people are usually not the most frequent posters in the backroom and so don't really care if people get fed up with silly drama and stop posting.

"Louis-gate" in a nutshell.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lemur

Hmmm. It's not quite as simple as that, Strike. Louis had several opportunities to defuse the situation, and he didn't take them. It was a classic "this could have been sorted out with an apology and a laugh" kinda escalating, cascading event. Actually, thinking about it, Louisgate kinda resembled a classic tragicomedy in that way, lots of people making marginal calls that add up to a big, painful dénouement.

---

As well as everything Andres posted in the thread as well.

Some of the trolls who actively contributed to the loss of these members posting in this very thread (not you ACIN) to celebrate their demise has been an absolute hoot though, so this has been fun.

Wow, rereading the shibumi thread. That drunk clown guy trolled me harder than anyone else. We joked about being the same person, then when it came to the Louis threads he amped it up too much.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

*referring to the not saying stuff*

---

Here are the rules of being a staff member as set out by TosaInu. All staff members have had to agree to:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Your expected conduct as a moderator:

-You will endeavor to keep in mind that the forum belongs to the totalwar.org patrons and not to you personally.

-To avoid confusion about who is deleting/closing what, you are assigned to a single forum-area, In other words: don't worry about the other forums they are someone elses responsibility.

-You are free to move wayward threads to other forums if they are incorrectly posted in your forum-area (i.e. send them to General Discussion, OT, etc).

-You are free to close threads at your discretion within your given forum-area. (Note: whenever you excercise your right to close a thread please insert a final msg explaining you reasons/rational for doing so).

-You are authorized to remove posts/threads in the following circumstances:
1) if the post contains obscene language (i.e. the obscenity filter is dodged),
2) if the post conveys threatening or abusive intent against yourself, other moderators, or patrons
3) if the post contains references or solicitations for multiplayer cheats and/or warez/cd key-code information (note: single-player cheats are okay), and
4) If a post/thread is accidentally double-posted by a patron you may remove one of them.
5) Msgs containing blatant spam (i.e. "make money fast") are to be closed for a period of 24 hours, and then subsequently deleted.

-What was said, what is said and what will be said in the Keep, remains in the Keep (Kurando said so too, but I say it again).

-No back- and/or blackchat about colleagues. We're all human and things will happen at some point. Work it out in the topic where the hurt was done. If you're not big enough to say sorry, you should be big enough to avoid conflicts at all cost!

-Don't make up (drama and off) stories to achieve something. That's manipulating? Intrigues?

-Do not say A and do B. Difficult choices will have to be made. Being critical and changing mind is good, in fact encouraged. But do not say A to one person and B to the second one (this includes dodgy undercover accounts).

-Be honest, modest and work in a positive way. No one expects you to work here 24 hours a day and in fact, just interacting in your forum for 20 minutes a day does wonders (leading by example?).

Note: if you have a continuing problem with a particular you must contact the forum administrator.
Hence before you delete any posts make sure you note the IP address of the offending patron(s); which as a moderator you will now be empowered to view.

Note: It is an outside possibility that you will at some point have to make a decision to close a thread because of it's content. Closing threads is always preferable to deleting them, though you are totally within your right to do either given the circumstance.
And as was previously stated: endeavour to keep your forum-area free of non-relevant content by sending wayward threads to the OT forum, patch related posts to the Editing/Mods/Patches forum, and so forth.

Note: There is a behind the scenes "staff forum" to help the Moderators and Admins coordinate site business, you can contact TosaInu about that and he'll send you the direct link to the forum along with access password. Generally it is a good idea not to mention the staff forum to the other patrons because I find that they tend to get uneasy if they think that there is something going on that they are not a part of + don't post anything irrelevant in the staff form either.

Andres has also made a very eloquent post on this topic in the past.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Andres

I know it's not satisfying and I know it sounds "company"-like and all that.

I understand you love Louis and his contributions. Heck, I miss his posts too.

It's just that it has been .Org policy for years not to discuss sanctions in public without the consent of the member involved. I've always seen and understood that rule as a form of courtesy and respect toward the member who broke the rules. Everybody deserves a new chance. Plenty of people have gotten plenty of chances. Louis deserves that too.

If Louis wants to come back with a WT thread to discuss what happened in public, then that's fine and things will be discussed in public; with his approval and the chance for him to give his version and interpretation. However, if Louis wants to let this rest and come back once all the dust has settled, in a more discrete way, with a few witty posts here and there, then that's fine too. If he prefers not to come back at all, then that's less fine, but not much we can do about it.

If I'm now going to discuss with non involved parties, in public, the details of what happened, then that would be very unfair towards him. First because, like everybody else here, he deserves the courtesy and respect not to make private stuff public; secondly, because he wouldn't have a chance to give his version if I made everything public in his absence; thirdly, who says he wants it to be made public?

You want it to be public knowledge, but it's not your call. Nor mine. Louis is the only one who is entitled to decide if this story should be made public or not.

If Louis wants to come back, he's more than welcome. There will be no grudges, no bad feelings, no ill will. It's sad that it had to happen, but it doesn't mean he's no longer welcome here. On the contrary. He'll be welcomed back with open arms and a pat on the back, as far as I'm concerned. Let that be clear.

But if, when and how he comes back, is his decision and his choice. It's not up to us (you nor me) to decide for him if, how or when he comes back.

:bow:

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Read Prole's post. The only detail omitted is that a rather big part of the .Org staff (mostly those not involved in the backroom) were just waiting for an opportunity and ACIN delivered it to them on a silver platter. Louis and Banquo left and Adrian followed suit after learning the reasons of their decision.

---

Yep, I was the big troll for wanting Louis to apologize for using a gay slur and I enabled a faction of the mods to dump all over Louis. Thus, I caused the downfall of the backroom. The reason most people blame me is because they still thought I was trolling, when the reality is that I was making contributions for a while at that point. I don't blame people for thinking that and I don't want to incite people, but I want it known the anger was genuine although I should not have gotten so worked up about it. If you don't believe me when I say I was being genuine, look up my reaction to Vuk three years ago when he made some terrible statements about gays.

We clearly remain as intractable as we were 3 years ago. Lucky for most of you I am paitent man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

We clearly remain as intractable as we were 3 years ago. Lucky for most of you I am paitent man.

---

Out of curiosity, what do you hope can be achieved and what do you think there is to make this so?

Unfortunateness of Louis going missing is that it is self-exile, and we cannot force him to return. There is no place for a hatchet to go, other than to be buried.

I like a good roll in the mud. It's part of my winning personality. Louis was my best internet friend, I'm nothing if not loyal.

not to mention the level of discourse has plummeted and the banter is at an all time low. Need to spice things up.

i was perfectly happy celebrating a decade here with a tacit nod to an all old friend. I did not bring up the incident but I will not stand by and let history be rewritten

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Strike For The South

I like a good roll in the mud. It's part of my winning personality. Louis was my best internet friend, I'm nothing if not loyal.

not to mention the level of discourse has plummeted and the banter is at an all time low. Need to spice things up.

i was perfectly happy celebrating a decade here with a tacit nod to an all old friend. I did not bring up the incident but I will not stand by and let history be rewritten

---

What history is being rewritten and why can you not stay in contact with Louis?
Even if he does not want to come back here, there are other ways to stay in contact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

The only detail omitted is that a rather big part of the .Org staff (mostly those not involved in the backroom) were just waiting for an opportunity and ACIN delivered it to them on a silver platter. Louis and Banquo left and Adrian followed suit after learning the reasons of their decision.

---

Oh, there it is, rewriting history.
Banquo decided to leave IIRC, it made me very sad.
So what were the reasons of their decision? I am almost sure that Louis told some members his side of the story, but I can only guess what exactly that was as they don't seem to want to disclose any of it either....

I just discovered I was erroneous in some of my views, so some of my previous posts were inaccurate. Apologies for that and removing. :bow:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

There was a conflict in terms of rules. Should we allow mods to say things members are not allowed to say or should we allow it because it was a joke? In the first case the members would complain that mods have special rights in terms of speech and in the letter case, members could insult eachother and then claim it was a joke.

---

"Letter" means "a message", "latter" - the last of the mentioned.

Sorry, couldn't help it. But why should I be sorry? After your "than vs then" correction, I feel entitiled to correct you in kind.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gilrandir

"Letter" means "a message", "latter" - the last of the mentioned.

Sorry, couldn't help it. But why should I be sorry? After your "than vs then" correction, I feel entitiled to correct you in kind.

---

I am aware of this, it was a typo and you are absolutely correct.
Thank you for pointing it out.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Husar

Oh, there it is, rewriting history.
Banquo decided to leave IIRC, it made me very sad.
So what were the reasons of their decision? I am almost sure that Louis told some members his side of the story, but I can only guess what exactly that was as they don't seem to want to disclose any of it either....

---

Why should it be disclosed? I can respect privacy, too.

On the other hand, you know perfectly well what transpired. You were a moderator back then and had access to private moderator forum.

"A muslim fag" was just a convenient excuse. We've left far worse things go unpunished. Could have Louis acted differently? Possibly, but then he wouldn't be Louis. And it wasn't just him. Adrian and Banquo, too. Those three were definitely amongst our most intelligent posters. I'm sure you remember those days, back when we used to discuss different things around here, before it deteriorated to 94th version of "why muslims suck" and "gunbortion" 97th version.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

On the other hand, you know perfectly well what transpired. You were a moderator back then and had access to private moderator forum

---

I am going to clear something up. Moderators wouldn't have known what transpired as it was an administration decision which they are not privy to. They only know that Louis was de-greened and put 1+1 together, something that I did myself and so did the rest of the board. I only discovered last night the administration decision behind the action, but the only way to know what was said for sure is to break in a Louis and Ser Clegane's accounts to read PMs to confirm it. This is an action I don't find suitable nor I am willing to make.

The reasons Louis left are private to himself. For some people, Louis-gate is enough of a reason, the idea the Frenchman wouldn't lie low, waving his flag in a foolish, but heroic manner, before being struck down. It has that romantic appeal. But I can assure everyone there is no conspiracy, there was no 'backstabbing' and the reasons Louis left are unrelated to BQ.

If you have specific concerns, feel free to message me and I will address them.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Louis was not banned from the Org, his choice to leave was his free will and isn't/hasn't been barred from coming back at anytime.

---

Thats really all there is to it then. Added a lot of colour to the forums, wasn't suited for moderation, sad he went, but ultimately he chose to go.

...and congrats on reaching the decade mark!

Can't say I feel the nostalgia some do, but it's always lame when interesting voices go silent for whatever reason. As far as debates go, diversity is a must.

Also, '05-ers ftw.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hooahguy

Ive done basically a 180 on most issues so... great success! Now give me another eight years here and Im sure I will have done a full 360.

:2thumbsup:

---

I wouldn't be too surprised, such a cycle makes sense in some contexts: uninformed position 1 → better informed position 2 → even better informed position 1. It's a matter of switching to gradually better and more informed arguments, which can take one on any kind of path; all depending on the arguments one started out with and the new arguments one is exposed to.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

Why should it be disclosed? I can respect privacy, too.

---

Didn't you ask us to make the Keep threads public? It's a bit like asking to make someone's PMs public.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

On the other hand, you know perfectly well what transpired. You were a moderator back then and had access to private moderator forum.

---

I would like to know what you think transpired because I have a suspicion that what you think is not what I know about.
Or maybe just see below.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sarmatian

"A muslim fag" was just a convenient excuse. We've left far worse things go unpunished. Could have Louis acted differently? Possibly, but then he wouldn't be Louis.

---

As Beskar said, I do not know for sure what ultimately led to the decision to demote Louis, but I have a very strong suspicion that the things the trolls were concerned about were a minor reason at best and not really sufficient to reach such a decision. What I can perhaps tell you is that the vast majority of Moderators who disagreed with Louis' public statements did NOT want to see him demoted for those comments. A correction, perhaps even an apology, yes, but a demotion was NOT wanted. That it came to be one anyway was most likely because of Louis' reaction(s) to the whole affair but I cannot know this for sure either.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQMoFWfFPzQ

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Beskar

Here are threads related to Louis-gate.

BQ complaining one
Initial Thread
The Louis post in question.
One of the later Louis topics

There are a few deleted posts, and a few threads by Louis with creative titles involving a certain word. But that should cover the jist.

Edit: For context, the Org was very strict back then on words. I myself received an infraction for using the word 'Damn'.

---

Well, two of those are threads where everyone says how great BG is/was.

Also - where the hell was I in all this?

I mean, I remember it happening but I apparently wasn't involved?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kralizec

Banquo had nothing to do with Louis leaving. I'll leave it at that.

---

This.

I was in PM contact with Louis all through the farce and it was the rank hypocrisy that decided it was enough for him.