8 Values - Org Poster Values

As an alternative to Political Compass we have used previously, there is "8 values".
https://8values.github.io/

What is 8values?
8values is, in essence, a political quiz that attempts to assign percentages for eight different political values. You will be presented by a statement, and then you will answer with your opinion on the statement, from Strongly Agree to Strongly Disagree, with each answer slightly affecting your scores. At the end of the quiz, your answers will be compared to the maximum possible for each value, thus giving you a percentage. Answer honestly!

What are the eight values?
There are four independent axes - Economic, Diplomatic, State, and Society - and each has two opposing values assigned to them. They are:

Equality (Economic)
Those with higher Equality scores believe the economy should distribute value evenly among the populace. They tend to support progressive tax codes, social programs, and at high values, socialism.

Markets (Economic)
Those with higher Market scores believe the economy should be focused on rapid growth. They tend to support lower taxes, privatization, deregulation, and at high values, laissez-faire capitalism.

Nation (Diplomatic)
Those with higher Nation scores are patriotic and nationalist. They often believe in an aggressive foreign policy, valuing the military, strength, sovereignty, and at high values, territorial expansion.

Globe (Diplomatic)
Those with higher Globe scores are cosmopolitan and globalist. They often believe in a peaceful foreign policy, emphasizing diplomacy, cooperation, integration, and at high values, a world government.

Liberty (State)
Those with higher Liberty scores believe in strong civil liberties. They tend to support democracy and oppose state intervention in personal lives. Note that this refers to civil liberties, not economic liberties.

Authority (State)
Those with higher Authority scores believe in strong state power. They tend to support state intervention in personal lives, government surveillance, and at high values, censorship or autocracy.

Tradition (Society)
Those with higher Tradition scores believe in traditional values and strict adherence to a moral code. Though not always, they are usually religious, and support the status quo or the status quo ante.

Progress (Society)
Those with higher Progress scores believe in social change and rationality. Though not always, they are usually secular or atheist, and support environmental action and scientific or technological research.

My score:
https://i.imgur.com/ECYVTdL.png

Not a better quiz than the old one. Since I can't really answer these questions the way they're meant to be, I come out almost pure centrist.

Did you take the test answering as you expected Greyblades to, or did he ask you to post his result for some reason?

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Originally Posted by Montmorency

Not a better quiz than the old one. Since I can't really answer these questions the way they're meant to be, I come out almost pure centrist.

Did you take the test answering as you expected Greyblades to, or did he ask you to post his result for some reason?

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I answered a lot of Neutrals as well, because the statements are not very specific. I assume it's a limitation due to not wanting to have a bazillion questions that take two years to answer though. Here's my result anyway:

Attachment 19619

He posted his result elsewhere and I simply re-used that. But I will remove it and he can post it himself.

Closest Match: Liberalism

Ideological matching is a work in progress, and is much less accurate than the values and axes.

https://8values.github.io/results.ht...&g=62.7&s=62.4

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Originally Posted by Furunculus

Fair enough, the guardian and telegraph co-reviewed the book back in the day:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/...ay-people-vote

http://www.edwest.co.uk/telegraph-bl...conservatives/

not quite the exact links, but close enough to expand on the premise.

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The series of "explore your Morality" surveys in the first (Guardian) link here are a bit more entertaining.

Reporting results at face value, I have less firm moral foundations than either liberals or conservatives, I am more rule-oriented than liberals, conservatives, or libertarians, I value honor less than others (i.e. males and females), but more than they in terms of external/social judgement, I place less emphasis than liberals and conservatives on societal goals of power and well-being, and I endorse more weakly than liberals and conservatives fair distribution by utilitarian and libertarian principles, match conservatives on equality, match liberals on equity, and in between on meeting basic or minimum needs.

Finally, my personal values are much weaker than everyone's, except for "power" somehow, which is between liberals' and conservatives' averages.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

8values is, in essence, a political quiz that attempts to assign percentages for eight different political values.

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As it is often the story with tests and quizzes some initial premises are ill-worded and the values which are meant to represent opposite foci of an imagined scale include notions which can't be counterposed. And on the other hand some tenets grouped into one category may contradict each other:

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Equality (Economic)
Those with higher Equality scores believe the economy should distribute value evenly among the populace. They tend to support progressive tax codes, social programs, and at high values, socialism.

Markets (Economic)
Those with higher Market scores believe the economy should be focused on rapid growth. They tend to support lower taxes, privatization, deregulation, and at high values, laissez-faire capitalism.

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Even distribution of values isn't opposite to rapid growth as well as progressive tax code doesn't exclude lowering taxes.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Nation (Diplomatic)
Those with higher Nation scores are patriotic and nationalist. They often believe in an aggressive foreign policy, valuing the military, strength, sovereignty, and at high values, territorial expansion.

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One may value sovereignty, but oppose aggressive foreign policy. Partriotism and nationalism have different axiological connotations.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Globe (Diplomatic)
Those with higher Globe scores are cosmopolitan and globalist. They often believe in a peaceful foreign policy, emphasizing diplomacy, cooperation, integration, and at high values, a world government.

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Connected with the previous one: supporting sovereignty doesn't exclude supporting cooperation and integration at different levels.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Liberty (State)
Those with higher Liberty scores believe in strong civil liberties. They tend to support democracy and oppose state intervention in personal lives. Note that this refers to civil liberties, not economic liberties.

Authority (State)
Those with higher Authority scores believe in strong state power. They tend to support state intervention in personal lives, government surveillance, and at high values, censorship or autocracy.

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As post 11\9 America showed, liberty can co-exist with governmnet surveillance.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Tradition (Society)
Those with higher Tradition scores believe in traditional values and strict adherence to a moral code. Though not always, they are usually religious, and support the status quo or the status quo ante.

Progress (Society)
Those with higher Progress scores believe in social change and rationality. Though not always, they are usually secular or atheist, and support environmental action and scientific or technological research.

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Moral code and religiousness don't exclude rationality or technological research.

Generally, I feel like I'm offered a choice what I like more - tomatoes or driving a car.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Generally, I feel like I'm offered a choice what I like more - tomatoes or driving a car.

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Or Creationism in Schools versus Theory of Evolution.

An immovable 'fact' versus theories based on evidence from nature which explains many processes witnessed there.

There's roughly 8 of us left here. Is there someone whose values you don't know?

Turns out I'm pretty moderate:

Attachment 19620

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Originally Posted by Sarmatian

There's roughly 8 of us left here. Is there someone whose values you don't know?

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My own?

8values

Results
Economic Axis: Market

37.8%
62.2%

Diplomatic Axis: Patriotic

64.9%
35.1%

Civil Axis: Moderate

56.2%
43.8%

Societal Axis: Neutral

46.0%
54.0%

Closest Match: Neo-Liberalism
Ideological matching is a work in progress, and is much less accurate than the values and axes.
You can send these results by copying and pasting the URL at the top of the page or using the image below. Think your matched ideology was wrong? Want to help us calibrate the test? Send the results along with your political ideology to us at eightvalues@gmail.com, or send us any comments, questions, or criticism.


Back

Left wing populism

Economic Axis: Centrist
56.7%
43.3%
Diplomatic Axis: Balanced
47.9%
52.1%
Civil Axis: Liberal
65.8%
34.2%
Societal Axis: Progressive
35.6%
64.4%
Closest Match: Liberalism

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Originally Posted by Beskar

Or Creationism in Schools versus Theory of Evolution.

An immovable 'fact' versus theories based on evidence from nature which explains many processes witnessed there.

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Many scientists (especially up to XX century) were ardent believers, yet it didn't preclude them from pursuing research and making discoveries and inventions. Like Tolkien was a hard core Catholic but he invented a whole alternative religious view on the world and its creation.

Hard to say the test doesn't work the site is broken, I get to agree or disagree with a white square with no question in it

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Many scientists (especially up to XX century) were ardent believers, yet it didn't preclude them from pursuing research and making discoveries and inventions. Like Tolkien was a hard core Catholic but he invented a whole alternative religious view on the world and its creation.

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Religion doesn't do much damage when believers study physics, where knowledge is hazy. It is extremely damaging in fields where knowledge is more complete. As for Tolkien and his alternative world view and creation: it's Catholicism, more or less. It's not as directly allegorical as CS Lewis's Narnia, but it is based on Catholicism.

Personal theory, LotR is something entirely else. Tolkien was gay. The whole story is really about childhood-friends overcomming obstacles to in the end together climb a mountain with a ring. Carry on

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Personal theory, LotR is something entirely else. Tolkien was gay. The whole story is really about childhood-friends overcomming obstacles to in the end together climb a mountain with a ring. Carry on

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Explain.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Explain.

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I don't say he was but I think he was and that was difficult at the time, a ring is a symbole of marriage. Never noticed how many women are key in the book, almost none, it's all rather homosensual, knights and all that, If it had to do with catholism there would have been more. You can find your own symbolism in everything if you want that could support my pet-theory

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Originally Posted by Fragony

I don't say he was but I think he was and that was difficult at the time, a ring is a symbole of marriage. Never noticed how many women are key in the book, almost none, it's all rather homosensual, knights and all that, If it had to do with catholism there would have been more. You can find your own symbolism in everything if you want that could support my pet-theory

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Do you know anything about the background of the story of Beren and Luthien?

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Do you know anything about the background of the story of Beren and Luthien?

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Tried cheating with a google search but no, I don't

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Tried cheating with a google search but no, I don't

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John is Beren, Edith is Luthien.

Can't say but consider it that Tolkien was a homosexual, and tetris it, fits and all that

There is a distinct lack of hot women clad in bikini chainmails in LotR. Maybe Fragony is on to something...

Very moderate, Centrist.

https://8values.github.io/results.ht...&g=54.2&s=51.5

I got 65.2% in favour of Equality on the Social Axis, but that's likely because of my religious beliefs.

Aside from that my strongest result was 55.9% in favour of the Nation on the Diplomatic Axis.

Economy: Centrist (56.1% equality, 43.9% markets)
Diplomacy: Balanced (48.4% nation, 51.6% world)
Civil: Moderate (57.3% liberty, 42.7% authority)
Society: Progressive (38.0% tradition, 62% progress)
Closest match: Liberalism

https://8values.github.io/results.ht...&g=57.3&s=62.0

https://8values.github.io/results.ht...&g=55.0&s=81.2

A bit surprised that I got less communist than Beskar.

I got Social Liberalism:
Social for economic, balanced for diplomatic, moderate for civil, progressive for societal.

The questions have had about as much thought put into them as a "which japanese cartoon character are you?" quiz.

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Originally Posted by Crandar

https://8values.github.io/results.ht...&g=55.0&s=81.2

A bit surprised that I got less communist than Beskar.

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I think the test doesn't reflect my views accurately.

I guess I'm as in the middle as I thought: https://8values.github.io/results.ht...&g=54.6&s=59.4
Closest Match: Centrist
Attachment 19622

The questions are certainly vague, there are a lot where I'd have a caveat for agree and disagree so I selected neutral

Yeah, the test scores bad if you do too many neutral. On the other hand, it does bad if you do too many "strongly agree/disagree". Moderation seems to be the key.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Religion doesn't do much damage when believers study physics, where knowledge is hazy. It is extremely damaging in fields where knowledge is more complete.

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This is the first time I hear that physics has hazy foundations. I wonder what sciences you consider more complete in their tenets.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

As for Tolkien and his alternative world view and creation: it's Catholicism, more or less. It's not as directly allegorical as CS Lewis's Narnia, but it is based on Catholicism.

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I would say not on Catholicism, but on Christianity. But for any hard core Catholic inventing an alternative universe not in line with Catholic/Christian view expounded in the Bible would be unthinkanble, don't you think?

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Originally Posted by Fragony

Never noticed how many women are key in the book, almost none

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Eowyn and especially Arwen. The desire to marry the latter was one of the chief motifs Aragorn had to fight the war.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

This is the first time I hear that physics has hazy foundations. I wonder what sciences you consider more complete in their tenets.

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Physics has a lot of areas that are presently theoretical and not exactly empirically provable. Chemistry and biology, for all their own hazy areas, are at least empirically testable on this planet.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

I would say not on Catholicism, but on Christianity. But for any hard core Catholic inventing an alternative universe not in line with Catholic/Christian view expounded in the Bible would be unthinkanble, don't you think?

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English Catholicism is probably different from those other breeds that you're thinking of. For one, a brief period under Mary Tudor apart, it has not been able to use the state to enforce its tenets, but has had to exist however it could. I'm not a massive expert on the subject, but AFAICS it's not much different in tone from the tea and scones fundamentalism of the modern CofE.

How we got on LoTR is beyond me, but I'll interject anyhow.
The social structure in LoTR is class divided, race divided, with each ruled by a benevolent oligarchy; Mordor is a bit of an exception with the unquestioned supremacy of Sauron.
As presented, no enforcement is required: it the obvious outcome of the mythical situation.
It strikes me as the achievement of the medieval ideal posited by the Great Chain of Being.

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Originally Posted by Beskar

I think the test doesn't reflect my views accurately.

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It seems accurate to me, but then I appear to be normative according to this test.

Note that all Brits (except extreme-right outliers) will support the NHS, likely pushing the average British result to the Left on the economic axis.

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

Physics has a lot of areas that are presently theoretical and not exactly empirically provable. Chemistry and biology, for all their own hazy areas, are at least empirically testable on this planet.

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Being no specialist in either of these spheres, I still greatly doubt your claim. For example, there are some areas of biology which are completely founded on hypotheses and can't be empirically tested, like paleobiology (the dinosaurs' ways of life, hide color, voice etc.). Moreover, there are many questions as to the functions of some organs of the living organisms. I'm sure chemistry abounds in such issues as well. So I suspect you have a special grudge against physics. Poor test results in grade 9? ~;)

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

English Catholicism is probably different from those other breeds that you're thinking of. For one, a brief period under Mary Tudor apart, it has not been able to use the state to enforce its tenets, but has had to exist however it could. I'm not a massive expert on the subject, but AFAICS it's not much different in tone from the tea and scones fundamentalism of the modern CofE.

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Since we are talking of Tolkien's world as a reflection of universal Christian tenets and myths, the breeds of Catholicism involved really don't matter.

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Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny

How we got on LoTR is beyond me

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Now you understand what value is the genuine one. :hail:

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Originally Posted by HopAlongBunny

The social structure in LoTR is class divided, race divided, with each ruled by a benevolent oligarchy; Mordor is a bit of an exception with the unquestioned supremacy of Sauron.

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I'm afraid one can't make general conclusions pertaining to all LoTR societies.
First of all, I don't think one can talk of oligarchy in Middle-earth since industry (if we can speak of one) and land aren't owned by a small group of Dwarves, Hobbits or Elves. The power belongs to the clans with the most respected predigree, so to say. Moreover, some societies (like Hobbits) aren't in fact ruled by anyone: "The Shire at this time had hardly any 'government'. Families for the most part managed their own affairs." (Fellowship of the ring, Of the Ordering of the Shire).
And as for the exceptions, you didn't mention Saruman.

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

Being no specialist in either of these spheres, I still greatly doubt your claim. For example, there are some areas of biology which are completely founded on hypotheses and can't be empirically tested, like paleobiology (the dinosaurs' ways of life, hide color, voice etc.). Moreover, there are many questions as to the functions of some organs of the living organisms. I'm sure chemistry abounds in such issues as well. So I suspect you have a special grudge against physics. Poor test results in grade 9? ~;)



Since we are talking of Tolkien's world as a reflection of universal Christian tenets and myths, the breeds of Catholicism involved really don't matter.

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"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism."

No. 142: letter to his friend Robert Murray, S.J. (December 1953)

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

"The Lord of the Rings is of course a fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in the revision. That is why I have not put in, or have cut out, practically all references to anything like 'religion', to cults or practices, in the imaginary world. For the religious element is absorbed into the story and the symbolism."

No. 142: letter to his friend Robert Murray, S.J. (December 1953)

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I don't see how being Catholic cancels being Christian. And if we zoom out of LoTR and look at the whole legendarium we see that it establishes its own universe whose origin is definitely at variance with the Christian tradition starting from its creation out of Music. The religious background of the legendarium is richer than just Catholicism or even Christianity with the admixture of Scandinavian and even Greek mythology.

Attachment 19626

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Originally Posted by Gilrandir

I don't see how being Catholic cancels being Christian. And if we zoom out of LoTR and look at the whole legendarium we see that it establishes its own universe whose origin is definitely at variance with the Christian tradition starting from its creation out of Music. The religious background of the legendarium is richer than just Catholicism or even Christianity with the admixture of Scandinavian and even Greek mythology.

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I'm just quoting Tolkien on his own creation. I'm guessing you're a fan of "The Death of the Author".

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Originally Posted by Pannonian

I'm just quoting Tolkien on his own creation. I'm guessing you're a fan of "The Death of the Author".

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If you mean Barth's conception -I heard about it but never dug deep.

Attachment 19629

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Originally Posted by Ser Clegane

Attachment 19629

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Nice to hear from you, especially as you are no longer burdened with the red.

Howdy neighbour