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I'm just curious,
I went there recently and I couldn't help laughing out loud.
It is one big propaganda fest.
They even have a thread celebrating the 'great future of Total:Warrior'. ~:eek: ~:eek: :dizzy2:
I wonder if their 'registered users' aren't complete sellouts. :bow:
Your comments.
yup, i dont really bother with the .com any more, but more for the generally shallow discussions that happen there. Though i have noticed that the Ministry for Truth clearly has officials working at tw.com.
All hail tw.org & twcentre i say, and death to all that dissagree!! err, as long as thats not too like propaganda..... ~;)
You do know that the guy that started the thread is the SEGA Europe's' Web community manager. It is basically a thread where you can ask questions about it and he will try and answer. It is not a sell out.
The com is the official board and it is the place where official announcements will happen. This is one of them more or less.
It seems to me that you have desided not to like it at all and anything short of a full apology from CA will not make you smile again. You didn't even look at the thread.
Good work there!
Hi All,
I've been lurking for quite sometime on this board and the .com board. I decided to join this board as it has less of a "dramatic" environment. But I have to say the .com board is something I continue to lurk around as in between all the static there is very good information.
Cheers
AussieGiant
Err- Kraxis, who are you flaming?
Just to clear up I wasnt speaking about the total warrior thread in specific, just that generally ive given up on the .com as it is an official forum and you tend to get the official line there.
My opinion about total warrior has been improving mind you.
If you noticed I posted basically on top of you... And I'm not flaming, I'm just tired of the old 'wheee, .com bad, me good, me bash .com, me not read threads there but me want to comment on them.'
If you want to complain about the .com then at least do the rest of us teh favour of actually getting the basics right.
So you see it wasn't direct at you.
Sorry, my bad, I never checked the post time. Its easy to get the wrong impression when your not talking face to face. ~:)
Let's not get into mud slinging at another TW forum or site. Each has site has its fans. Which forum you prefer is a matter of personal taste. If you are happy with the forum(s) where you hang out, that is all that matters.
Kraxis, I know it is an official thread but did you see the responses from most of the 'registered users', they reply was oh how great. I really love and trust Sega. Hail to our mighty CA leaders. I personally find it very hard to believe that the merger was taken soo well by any TW gamer. After all, the reaction it got here and TW center was one of shock and horror. Am I to believe the .com users did not have similiar concerns.Quote:
You do know that the guy that started the thread is the SEGA Europe's' Web community manager. It is basically a thread where you can ask questions about it and he will try and answer.
This sucks, back in MTW, we could say what we wanted without the CA's Gestapo censoring our thread.
Let the dissent flourish!
i find it ammusing that the people at CA even bother to check or read peoples opinions at all, since it seems all anyone does is bitch and complain about this bug or this bug or something not being up to your standards. People dont seem to apprecitate that CA atleast makes an effort to please people and to fix their screw ups, i mean they could have just put the patch on the expansion and charged for it but they put it up for free.. You have to understand that they are a business and although they try to please the consumer, they ulitmatley have to make a profit. Im happy with CA, and i am also happy that they have a huge fanbase that fills in voids that Ca doesnt, such as people who work so hard to share Mods with everyone. I mean honestly, get a life and stop worrying about a video game company and obessing over it. I dont know if its sad or scary that some people care so much , i mean i love RTW and try to squeeze it in between playing guitar and school, but damn some people need to find a girlfriend.
Exactly why do you think that fixing one's own mistakes is such an exceptional achievement that should be praised? I thought that it should be a standard, but probably I am just too old for this.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
And basically because I have a life, I can only play one hour a day or so, thus the load-game bug is pretty ruining my game experience.
Perhaps when I deliver a faulty product I should tell my boss (and the customers of the enterprise I work for) to just get over it.
I think it is standard practise for people or companies to take responsibility for their actions. In this case I do believe CA would wish to continue correcting any serious gameplay issues. On the other hard I believe this CA desire is being negatively affected by business deals in place with Activision. That of course is not just Activision responsibility but also those in CA you struck the agreement.
I just hope that CA, in its "NEW" deal with Sega have have taken note of all the undesirable aspects of the previous relationship and removed or modified them for the New relationship. This would include topics such as patch support, development issues, and creative (realisms) areas.
Any ideas about how few people will pay for an expansion to fix bugs that came with a game they already bought?Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
I will not.
This is my first game of the TW series, and if the things go on like they do, it's the last.
I agree that when the game was put out it should have been bug free ... no doubt. Maybe that wasnt a good example, but it seems to me that i do see people on their site bitching and having unrealistic expectations of a video game company. On the other hand i have seen people on there that seem to just search for the slightest imperfection of the game so they can just complain about it. I also do think that CA could have put alot of those fixes in an expasion pack that included many other features and many people would have bought them. One question i have , did MTW have so many issues when it was put out?
I was worried about the buyout when I first heard about it, as much as I like Dynasty Warriors type games, I was hoping to see more Total War style games (Including being one of the minority who'd like to see a fantasy Total War...)
However, when it was pointed out that CA has always had a console division, that they've been producing console games the whole time they've been producing the Total War games, and that Total Warrior is a different line with a different team, I'm not worried anymore, and I figure I'll probably like Spartan: Total Warrior, just hope they release it on the only console I own (PS2).
Aetius, there was a lot of complaining. Why do you think that Alex starts out his post trying to be dimplomatic and saying he wants to calm people's fears. Hardly something I would do if there hadn't been anything but praise for the Sega buyout. Alex certainly did settle a lot of fears, and if you would care to read just the first page you will find a number of posts where people have flamed him. So obviously the .com is very much differnt than your view of sellouts and fanboys.
By that last post you just confirmed my suspicion about you. You think that your fears are the only right way and that Sega and console gaming is a bad thing in all. Other opinions (such as those you complain about) is just stupid people with little idea about how the real world revolves.
It is close to impossible to release a 100% bug-free software of such a complication grade as a modern PC game. But it is the self-righteous attitude of those developers (as in locking the threads with complaints about The Bug) that disturbs me.Quote:
Originally Posted by steve
You (and Kraxis in his post before this one) are very much right about that. This is why I registered on this forum and not in that one, after a period of lurking around.Quote:
Maybe that wasnt a good example, but it seems to me that i do see people on their site bitching and having unrealistic expectations of a video game company. On the other hand i have seen people on there that seem to just search for the slightest imperfection of the game so they can just complain about it.
If they don't resolve the problem with that Major Bug in a patch before The Expansion, I will not buy the latter one. The Expansion will introduce new bugs (I have no problem with that) and I want to be able to hope that those bugs will get fixed, without me paying for an expasion-to-expansion, and then expasion-to-expasion-to-expansion etc.Quote:
I also do think that CA could have put alot of those fixes in an expasion pack that included many other features and many people would have bought them.
CA is behaving in a less than honorable way toward the buyers of RTW. The right thing to do is to fix gamebreaking bugs immediately, and to do it in a free patch release. Imposing censorship on people who complain, no matter how bitterly, over LEGITIMATE issues, just shouldn't happen.
I develop software and know you cannot create perfection on the first shot with a large, sophisticated program. Users know this too, and they will be tolerant to a degree of the first effort. But once you address the issues and say, "We've done all we intend to do", as CA has, you then best better have a nearly perfect product, with no bugs rated as serious or critical. The HA bug is serious, the scarring issue is serious, and the save/reload bug borders on critical for its threat to good gameplay for many users. This is hardly the kind of stuff that should have escaped them, and they need to be accountable for their errors- EVEN IF IT COSTS THEM MONEY TO FIX!!
We aren't going to get fairness though, because CA has sold its corporate soul to the devil, and we will have to pay for fixes in the expansion pack which should have been caught with release 1.1 at the latest. Abusing your customers for short term gain is never a winning business plan.
I admit I'm hooked deeply enough on RTW to pay whatever for the expansion, but I'm disappointed at the lack of both pride in their work and business ethics the management of CA are displaying over this patch fiasco. To the management of CA: If you want to play in the big leagues, then be prepared to play professionally. If you want to be anything more than a "one hit wonder" remember the importance of doing your job right, and then standing by it to correct any errors on your part.
Hasn't GilJaysmith already dropped a hint of another patch?
CA going console???Quote:
Originally Posted by GilJaysmith
:charge:
Quote:
Originally Posted by GilJaysmith
"Ah, the .org... "Bless 'em" as we so often say here.
You're entitled to huddle together and worry pointlessly about the future, that doesn't hurt anyone. But you could all do us a favour by limiting negative comments about the game and CA to, "Well, I don't like the sound of that, so I probably won't buy or play it." Anything stronger than that - especially as you haven't seen any game assets as yet - and you're asking for a voodoo slap which you won't forget in a hurry...
On the other hand, if you emanate enough positive vibes, who knows what might happen in the very near future?"
Talk about your pompous arrogance! Gee, I'm sorry if people complaining about serious bugs in the game (and providing research to back it up) offends you, CA. We haven't seen any game assets yet??? :dizzy2: What do you call RTW release 1.0? How about release 1.1?? Ahh, release 1.2?? Please tell me that quote was taken out of context to something other than a discussion of patching serious flaws which have been proven to exist, and that any QA simpleton could have discovered in a single day of testing!!
They are the ones asking for serious bad karma if they think they can offend and alienate their customers. It seems to me that CA doesn't know the first thing about public relations or how to be thick skinned about criticism. All I would ask is that they fix serious issues in a patch right away, and do serious testing to validate that they work and haven't broken something else. If that's too much for their current staff, I can provide an e-mail address and they can contract me to teach them how to do proper QA.
I took CA's side in the beginning of the patching process, wanting to believe they intended to do the right thing. Two official patches later, most of the people I was arguing with have deserted the game, and probably won't spend another penny on CA software. They might be able to bs your average consumer, but I write code for a living, and know the customer is entitled to better.
And this: "On the other hand, if you emanate enough positive vibes, who knows what might happen in the very near future? "
Hey, I gave $50 worth of positive vibes, and thousands of words in defense of CA's software developer business ethics. My reward has been patches with kindergarten mistakes, and the statement above which amounts to CA telling me that they might help if I get on my knees and kiss their ass enough. That's some nerve, GilJaySmith!! :furious3:
Now that SEGA owns them, perhaps they can rein in at least the outward display of arrogance some CA staff members seem to be prone to. They might try to stop the Nazi style censorship going on at other websites as well. At least SEGA has enough experience and staff to know better than to treat customers the way CA has over legitimate business issues.
I do understand that it cant be 100% bug free first time, and agree that any bugs that have a major effect on game should in time be solved by CA.. I was just refferring to the fact that i see people searching and bitching about bugs you can hardly notice and that really do not effect the game play, just that buyers obession with 100% perfection . As far as the console game goes, i think its a good idea and will perhaps introduce RTW to many new people, i do not like the whole Fantasy part of it, i think that seems rather lame. I would rather see them try to produce games that are more historically accurate and that provide an entertainment and learning experince, rather then Zelda Total war or whatever the hell this game will be about. I think they mentioned dragons? i may offend people but the whole Fantasy thing just seems like something i picture 9 year olds playing because they dont have the patience nor the respect of history to deal with the historical aspect of it. Too bad Decisive Battles is off the air, that was a great show and the reason why i bought RTW.
"On the other hand, if you emanate enough positive vibes, who knows what might happen in the very near future?"
Does that mean we have to polish his knob just to get our hopes up?
What arrogant bast...ard!!!
Steve,
You are right: there are a few people who focus on minutia no one cares about. I don't think any developer should worry about those kinds of people. We have a rule where I work that says: 1 in 100 people is basically a nut job, so, unless complaints run higher than that, we will dismiss them without action at the project leader's discretion.
I'm talking about showstopper bugs like the save game/reload one which can destroy the value to the point of worthlessness for players who can't play long sessions. Serious bugs need attention too, like the HA problem. It's nice that modders have dealt with it, but CA, as the responsible party, should fix it, and do it quickly, WITH GOOD GRACES!!
If I buy a new car, and the key breaks off in the ignition on day one, the dealership doesn't ask me to call a locksmith. THEY take care of it, even if it isn't strictly covered by warranty, because: THAT'S HOW YOU DO BUSINESS. And conversely, if a firm earns my business, they also earn my loyalty for future purchases. RTW has issues which are serious enough to merit developer intervention, and I think the community has every right to complain about not getting it.
Nicely said Old Celt.
Seems to me like you people are the arrogant bastards here. Old Celt, i think that in the quote giljay is talking about spartan: total warrior and i agree with him, all you have seen are a few screens and a movie and everyone is already bitching about how console games suck and stuff like that. And Steve, maybe you don't like fantasy games, but some people do. No one is forcing you to buy it. Hell, if rome or medieval would've been 100% historically accurate, you wouldn't see much action. Just accept that some people are different than you.
And while we're on the subject, i want to congratulate CA with their new deal with Sega and wish them the best of luck with their console game.
Now Old Celt I would like for you to click the little link at the bottom of Quietus' post. There you will see the thread in which the post of Gil was made.
In said thread people went nuts... Only hours after the released news. How could people know anything at that time?!?!? There wasn't even any screenshots or movies at that time.
I think you owe the man an apology, and please settle down a bit. It is like you couldn't fathom that people here would actually rave their own heads off and that that was in fact what Gil was responding to. Please stop taking such things personal... At least that is how your posts came off to me.
I think Celt is referring to the many bugs in this game and CA's apparent abandonment of its further fixes.
You know, I understand the idea that developers should produce games free of bugs and patch any that are buggy no matter what... But seriously, unless you've not bought any games in the past couple years, do you actually expect that to happen?
You can compare it to a car that won't run, but the fact is that the standards the car industry holds itself to and the standards that the game industry holds itself to are very, very different beasts.
I'd say the last 5-10 games I bought, major releases from large companies all, were buggy and never got fixed, and we're talking crash bugs here.
So to me it's just par for the course.
Why is this argument even here? How and where people post is their own individual matter. And in the end, we'll all pass the judgement with our wallets the next time around.
Had CA seriously expressed any concerns for RTW bugs, would we have had the kind of negativities on the console thread? Instead, the impression I get is that they continue to play us down with no sign of any concerns over bugs that plague this game.
So should we beg, or better yet, play it off as nothing is wrong so we could please the demigods of CA enough to have them release another patch, for free?
Has another of my posts disappeared? It included a witty analogy about monkeys throwing fruit at a smiling man in a suit. If anyone sees it maybe they could let me know where it is. That way I'll know that I dont have to book myself in to the 'happy house' for some rest.
The disappearance before this one (if it happened) was in the particular thread referenced by Kraxis above (definitely a good read). I know that Kukrikhan made that one disappear so I'm not worried about early-onset alzheimers with that one. Its a pity that my pithy remarks were missed though. As with Old Celt, I too have problems with condescending comments made by a certain CA employee. The fact that they were in response to the rabid ravings of disgruntled youth is irrelevant. Either you have a forum for discussion (good and bad) or you dont.
PS I'm saving this one so that I dont become confused as to whether I indeed wrote it (in case it too vanishes).
I am so bloody tired of hearing about how it's impossible to have release software that's bug free. I work in unmanned aircraft design. The budget for a lot of my projects is comparable to the development budget for a medium game, let alone the blockbuster everyone expected RTW to be, and I have to include the hardware design and fab cost too. Over two decades, yeah, we've lost our share of prototype birds to software glitches, mistakes happen. But you bet your ass by the time it leaves my shop it damn well works like a charm for 5 or 6 times the design life of the airframe without a software crash. Manned aviation has been writing 100% bug free software using V&V autocoders for 20 years. Fly by wire doesn't mean the pilot pulls on a bunch of strings, you know.
But the stakes are different, games don't kill people if they mess up. Fine, but the dollar cost is far from trivial and that can get you fired just as fast. More important, it's not like bug free gaming doesn't happen. When was the last time you got a patch for your console game? Oh, yeah, they can't patch them, so they have to . . . drum roll . . . get it right the first time. Don't tell me it can't be done.
well, consoles are standardized equipment, so they don't also have to test for driver/hardware incompatibilities, etc. i bet a lot of the time for testing goes to compatibility issues alone.
i have no problem with slightly or even very buggy game software - as long as there is a commitment to support it afterwards, which CA seems unwilling/unable to do for whatever reasons, legitimate or not.
Hail to Pode,Quote:
When was the last time you got a patch for your console game? Oh, yeah, they can't patch them, so they have to . . . drum roll . . . get it right the first time. Don't tell me it can't be done.
great point.
You know, I happen to have bought some games with real support. Europa Universalis II being a good example of a cooperation between the devs and the players.Quote:
Originally Posted by Musashi
Now whose fault is this?Quote:
You can compare it to a car that won't run, but the fact is that the standards the car industry holds itself to and the standards that the game industry holds itself to are very, very different beasts.
The lesson to me is this:
WAIT THREE MONTHS AFTER IT'S RELEASED BEFORE PURCHASE.
Hey, if we all did this the beancounters might get the message.
Just look at the bottom of the page 5 of the Loadgame-bug in the .com. It is terrifying.
http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...rt=81&stop=100
The thing is that strategy games are usually type of game that are more prone to bugs, or in which bugs are bigger showstoppers (then some texture collion in FPS).
There are so many formualas involved in the game, as well as in AI routine.
Now the problem with RtW is publisher, since they fund the patches.
Usually, in gaming industry things work like this:
If game is bad, give very few patches (if any). Why lose even more money on failure.
If game is good give more patches. It's worth fixing some bugs, and will help if we ever want to relase sequel.
If game is very good give expansions and more and more patches. Great games have big fan base. Only fans buy expansions, not casual gamers. Fans are usually more touchy on bugs then casual players. Bugs fixed in patches will carry out for expansion too, so you effectively already work for expansion when fixing the bugs for original.
Unfortunatly, that's the thing that Activision doesn't understand.
In contrast, you could look at Neverwinter Nights or Civilization 3, that got lots of expansions and patches. They are funded by Atari (foremely known as Infogrames).
Of course, in case of games that flopped, Atari is ruthless too. Look at Temple of Elemental Evil or Master of Orion 3. Still, even Atari doesn't realize that some games floped because of bugs, and if fixed would be successful. But, that's for another discussion.
Anyway, Rome: Total War is successful game, and as such, should deserve patching, both from gamer and commercial view.
@Old Celt,
Re your 'pompous arrogance' statement. Don't you think you're going a tad over the top here? Can you not take the comment in the spirit in which it was undoubtedly intended, ie a joke? GJS has consistently posted here (when he doesn't have to) to add bits of info when useful and when allowed (and I seem to remeber an occasion where he wasn't allowed but posted anyway).
Any road up, my point being 'lighten up a little'. Don't go off in a tantrum about pompous arrogance - this is the internet, people post comments and people all interpret those comments differently. From your other posts it's obvious you're old enough and ugly enough (joke) to a) see through the bs, and b) take things with a pinch of salt.
Cheers,
Rob
I did ask if the "pompous arrogant" remarks were taken out of a different context. And some of you have shown me that they were...However, that still doesn't make it acceptable to speak to your customers in that way, even if those customers are being totally unreasonable.
I remember sitting in a room with 18 other developers for a multi million dollar project and the customer, who was extremely unreasonable. This customer targeted the lead developer and went into a screaming tirade which included a fusilade of the most vile language you could ever imagine. This went on for nearly an hour and I really thought the guy was going to stroke out. Finally he was exhausted, and no one from our team had gotten a chance to speak. He said, "Well, I want to know what you have to say!" We were all furious. Our lead dev looked at him, and smiled like an angel and said very softly: "I am taking my team to lunch now, and we will discuss a response to your concerns." That was the most fantastic display of customer service I've ever seen. Despite incredible, unfair, vile heaping abuse, this dev kept his head on straight and remembered that the customer is king. The customer is always right.
Now, if other devs can stand the heat, CA's devs can too. If I can do a better job finding and zapping bugs, I feel fully justified to demand that level of service from other professionals. Yes I am a bit passionate about this subject, but I strive to be fair in how I analyze. As I said, in the beginning, I was defending CA, believing they would do the right thing because they know what is proper. My comments are not in reference to the console game in any way. I'm strictly speaking about the status of RTW and patch policy.
I just want the same respect from CA and attention to problems, that I give my software customers every day. Is that really asking too much?
Lets not forget that Console's aren't exactly brimming with Strategy games which are generally the sort of games you are needing patches for. Since when do you get a patch for an arcade game? lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aetius the Last Roman
I'm not happy about this Sega takeover and it does look like its a move aimed at making Console strategy games with ooo arrr great combo moves ... bam .. splat... I'm Spartan Totally Kick ass Awsome Warrior Dude!
I find this very worrying. Admittedly its a bit early to comment as we haven't seen anything of the game yet other than the blurb but the sound of it depresses me! Sounds very much like Kingdom Under Fire Crusaders! Fast Action, nice graphics and hack n slash battles. To me this is totally the opposite to what the Total War series was made for! Its a Wargame not a mix of Arcade Action and Strategy! Infact i'm off to .com now to moan lol
At least we still have the org :)
Good story there Old Celt. I`ve seen you defending CA here from time to time ~;) and it`s a sign to CA that things have gone badly wrong when even a determined optimist such as yourself has finally run out of hope.
@ steve - yes we know about the knitpickers you find in every game forum. However, we`re concerned here with major game-breaking bugs still being present after 6 months and two official patches, with no sign of another or any word AT ALL from the developers.
@ Browning - that was me at the bottom of page 5 in the Loadgame bug thread. I`d contacted Activision support on the advice of another poster. I reported the bug and said I`d contacted them as there had been no word at all on the Official Forum. Activision just referred me back to the Official Forum. Then the later email saying "problem SOLVED" - as I`d not continued to barrage them with emails...
I`m beginning to wonder if there`ll even be an expansion now, let alone another patch. Expansions often sell to the old core fanbase, many of whom have now given up on this game, series and developer.
Such a sad way for it to fizzle out. I`ve loved this series since STW - even still have the original MB boardgame Shogun which started it all.
Repeating myself from `over there`
And guess what - it`s technically and historically accurate, has a decent working AI, a proper dynamic campaign - and it remembers what it was doing between saves.Quote:
In complete contrast - my preorder of Silent Hunter 3 arrived on Wednesday. It had teething trouble bugs as we`d expect of any game nowadays. They posted the first patch for it, fixing a dozen or so buglets, yesterday!! I think it hits the shops tomorrow. Oh, and they`d held up release for six months to add a dynamic campaign specifically as it had been demanded by the fanbase. It`s called customer care CA, in case you`ve forgotten.
And this a first game from a Romanian comany who love what they do and communicate properly with their market, especially by listening and acting on what they hear.
You've gotta be kiddin'...Quote:
Originally Posted by Cloudnine
~;)
Ha ha. Yes, you posted the monkey thing in a thread I started about Sega taking over CA (it dropped off the radar when it approached 3 pages). Oh well. Can I just say I like reading all this venting? Does that make me a bad person? Even if I can't agree with everyones' interesting and informed opinions, it's still jolly good fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by SpencerH
For the sake of your sanity SpencerH, here's a link to that thread:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=44665
Will there be an expansion?
Why wouldnt there be one?
Dont expect me to tell you what it is though. ~:)
Will we continue making "Total War" games?
Of course.
Why would we be so stupid as to knock a good thing on the head? ~:confused:
As above, don't expect me to tell you what the next version will be.
Just take it from us that it will be great and it will knock any competition in to a hat. ~:cool:
Do we care about the quality of our games?
Yes. Deeply.
I can't think of any other reason for the amount of time and work we put in to producing our games.
We would all rather make great games than work in a dull 9-5 office or produce "run of the mill clones".
I, as do many here, smile ruefully when certain people suggest we don't care or that monkey typists could do better. ~:confused: Perhaps this comes about from a misunderstanding of just how many and how complex the mechanisms we put in place are, to get the game to a playable state, let alone the polished state we like to aim for.
As we live in a real world, we have to deal with some limitations in terms of money and manpower and thus also in terms of time. The result is that we can miss stuff or get it wrong :embarassed: And for this we are very sorry.
So before you put the boot in any more, pause, take a breath, and think about it.
How many strategy/battle games with a 3D camapign map, thousands of 3d troops on 3D battlefields are there out there, that allow you to play the Roman Empire?
And how many of those are better than RTW?
Dont worry. We wont rest on our laurels. And keep the faith. ~D
Yours sincerely
Intrepid Sidekick
C.A Staff
Thanks for the input Sidekick.
I do read between your lines though and it says no patch but an expansion before Xmas this year. ~;)
Again thanks for taking the time to jump in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Sidekick
I daresay this is the answer we were waiting for. Thank you very much.Quote:
Dont worry. We wont rest on our laurels. And keep the faith. ~D
Yours sincerely
Intrepid Sidekick
C.A Staff
Sidekick was far nicer than I intended. I apologise for that.
~D
Sidekick...Fishpants....hell you guys are coming out of the wood work all over the place at the moment.Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants
Keep up the good work fellas ~:cheers:
I can sum up how the .com and the .org are different real quick for you people.
.org
The org is an open discussion forum in which you are free to speak of anything to do with the totalwar game series. So long as you restrain yourself from using profanity, rudeness, personal attacks, and/or sheer idiocy as a way of communication, you will be fine.
.com
The com is an open discussion forum (unless it's about how totalwar has bugs or is against totalwar) in which you are free to speak of anything to do with the total war game series. So long as you restrain yourself from using profanity, rudeness, personal attacks, and/or sheer idiocy (only the moderator killemall is allowed to monopolize on idiocy) as a way of communication (unless the mods decide to randomly close it should they suspect you are a foreign agent sent to undermine their great works), you should be fine (until you are banned for posting a bug report).
What about fixing the problems for RTW? Are we to only hope for a better product in your next release of TW series? You have yet to address the many plaguing issues with your current product. ~:handball:
Thanks for the replies, CA guys.
I want to say that though my criticism of the patch situation is harsh, RTW still remains the best military game I've ever played, and it is my favorite. I will eagerly await the expansion, and buy it regardless of the open bug issues.
I stand by my statements about quality and how I think customers should be treated. Having said that, I do understand that sometimes, management policy just won't allow you to do the right thing you so desperately wish to do. I have left some jobs because of this kind of conflict between what you know is right, and what managers will allow.
Rome Total War is a terrific game. You at CA deserve all the kudos you received, the GOTY status, and the good sales that accompany all that. I'm sure many here on this forum can recall high praise I've given for a job well done in the game concept, design, and particularly the implementation of the morale system which I think is groundbreaking.
I don't wish to "put the boot in" any further. It is painful for me to be critical of other developers, because I know how such criticism can feel when it's directed at me. Please believe me, CA, you have plenty of respect for your capabilities, this matter of bug fixes relates much more to management policy IMHO.
It may be to everyone's best interest if an official communication could be made from CA or Sega to clear up the matter of whether any action will be taken officially to fix the save load bug between now and the presumed expansion. To my thinking, only the save/load bug is a critical problem. Simple mods fix most other bugs that are of any consequence, and most of us could probably accept that.
Again, I wish to thank the CA staff who have responded, and sincerely hope the lines of communication will remain open. None of us would be posting here if we didn't have a deep interest in the game.
Gods have descended from mount Olympus and boy did we all become so humble and meek all of a sudden.
We're not worthy! We're not worthy!
Thanks for that. At my age its easy to lose track of whats where, especially since these threads have been mixing topics between between the Sega buyout of CA (I'm hopefully positive), Spartan TW (I'm looking forward to more info), and the RTW bug problem (I'm thoroughly pissed off). Sometimes its hard for other readers to know just where anyone stands on these issues so flame wars arise over misunderstandings. We may need little icons to identify what we do and dont support.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zatoichi
Sorry, I cant resist. I usually avoid (physical) confrontations, but once they start my training (and experience) tells me to finish it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Sidekick
How many such games am I playing?Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Sidekick
0.
The serious bugs need to be fixed.
Here's my little icon per RTW bugs and most importantly its incompetent AI: :rtwno:
But in regards to graphics, the epic scope, and the first of its kind battle engine…. most appropriately: :rtwyes:
in defense of GilJay, he can say any 'pompous arrogant' thing he wants as long as it's within the guidelines of the org. why should a patron be limited in what he wants to say just because he works for CA? the org is supposed to be neutral ground. it wasn't created by or funded by CA and i don't see why CA employees should have to be on their best behavior here when others are rude towards them. any CA employee has the right to criticize gamers here, any gamer has the right to criticize about CA employees here, and any gamer has the right to criticize gamers that criticize CA employees here. as long as it all follows the guidelines of the org. freedom of speech. all that being said, i still believe that RTW is a mediocre game, i think CA has jumped the shark and i believe that any future games they make will be less and less entertaining for me. but that is just my opinion.
So, are you CA guys refuting patch 1.3? (since you didn't mention it at all and you had all the opportunity to do so). ~:confused: Any quick-fix or patch?
Also, since you're not being specific, CA is doing:
1) an RTW expansion pack
2) a new TW game (same engine).
3) of course, a top secret new game in a brand new engine(???)(that will take years to finish).
Finally, in case you've already forgotten, the Expansion Pack Wishlist thread.
:charge:
That is true, it's up to CA to decide if they want some who is essentially wearing their uniform, posting that stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by nokhor
Just like your work wouldn't want you to go insulting your customers while using their uniform, I doubt CA would either...
Since they only post here in their free hours and of their own free will, and that they have been given the CA tags by 'us' (meaning the .org) it is to say that they are in fact all the time wearing their uniforms.
It would be just sad not to get 1.21 patch as hotfix for worst problems, if there are no big plans.
Anyway, isn't fixing bugs, in fact, already working in expansion?
Of course, exempt if they already work on unannounced expansion, so it's impractical to patch old code for vanilla game (just speculating).
The expansion, as a new software version, is designed to include new features. E.g. a new feature would be an ability to (re)name your military units. Or to summon a vampire.
Bugfixes are something different. But usually bugs that are detected (and confirmed as bugs) should be fixed in the new software version. If there will be another, minor software release intended to fixes alone (aka patch), is another story. This is a somehow bigger organisation effort, but no increase software development effort to do so. And from what I read from the CA guys, there will be a patch.
I also understand why they choose to be so little specific. One possible reason is they discovered additional bugs in between and don't want to open a can of worms - complains - now.
There are two types of games then have expansions.
Those that use same basic executable for both expanded and original version of the game.
Exmples: Neverwinter Nights, Warcraft3
The benefit of such development is that code changes benefit both expanded and original version of the game. So if you fix bug in expansion, you fixed it basic version too. Such games also tend to have, after expansion is released, patches for both expanded and original version of the code simultaneously.
The other type of the games use different executables for expansion compared to original.
Example: Civilization3
Expansions exe is built from the basics of the original. Such games tend not to have patches for original after expansion is relased. Since original verion code is, in effect, "obsolete" it's not cost effective to patch both original and expansion. Also such games tend not to have patches relased after work on expansion has reached its peak, when significant amount of code it already changed.
Otherwise it would mean tracking two different codes, and that can be very difficult and bug-prone.
two CA emails - good to see! What happened to the plan of sticking the CA icon on threads where CA have emailed?
A pity we still havent got any answers we want, Sidekick really just reiterated what Alex has said, except from a CA perspective. We know they will continue, we know they have future plans, and we know they love the game. Its just the questions of the patch and the game direction we really want to know.
ps: totalwar.com, isn't it just there as a filter and here and twc are the real forums. Good to visit for some idle entertainment.
Sheesh. Kiddies, take a deep breath, step back, and calm down.
If RTW is really that disappointing to you folks, why on earth are you still browsing these forums? Take a few months off, forget about Rome, come back when you see the expansion on the shelves. Or just forget about Rome indefinitely. Seems as though you'd be saving yourselves a lot of heartache over a game that way. But hey, what do I know?
(No, this isn't a "omgdon'tcomplainun00bs" post)
I do it when i see themQuote:
Originally Posted by demon rob
Despite the fact that 1.2 introduced new bugs to the game, CA has no intention of doing any further patches to RTW. That has been made crystal clear on .COM. Wishing it weren't so isn't going to change anything. People need to either accept the game in its admittedly broken condition with a crappy AI or find a different game to play.
CA is not the same company that it used to be. Veterans of the series are not longer strategic to their corporate vision. They are shifting their resources to the console market. Time for us to move on to a different game and different publisher.
I see that "crystal clear" thing on "no patches" way to often.
Does anyone have a real proof.
A link perhaps?
And if there is a quote, is it before 1.2 release or not?
great thread :) i loved the lil dialogue at the end of Intrepid Sidekicks signature. probably the most entertaining and interesting part of this thread. Anyways, if your not satisfied with rome in its vanilla or 1.2 versions or whatever, there are plenty of mods out there, and some superb ones on the way.
Bloodyhell! Where did the Persians get all those 1.5 million men!?! Xerxes must be proud...Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Sidekick's signature
Nonetheless, I beg you to be careful. Spare the lives of those pant-wearing fools. Don't let the Elephants kill them all!!! Or else I'll sue you and keep whining for 1.3 patch, 1.4 patch, 1.5 patch, and so on until the expansion comes out...which would not be the end of my whining yet. :devilish:
Okay, I'm not quite interested in this thread that much. Just interested for the celebrities (CA staff) coming here with..er..weird names.
:grin:
P.S. I wonder if he'll ever see this..my bet: no! :blank:
It was "crystal clear" they wouldn't fix the 56yo dying kings in viking too.
And no, it has never been said anyware that there is a 2 patch limit, just that there is only 2 patches financed by Activision. And Activision are such a big player in the total war future now aren't they.
Microsoft got into consoles. Does that mean they have taken away all their resources from PCs?
(and the kings wasn't as much a game killer as the load bug).
So anyway, only thing they said is that they "planned" 2 patches.
LMFAO!!Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Fishpants
Very much agreed.Quote:
Originally Posted by demon rob
I hope and really wish you're right. I'd like another patch, pleaaasseeeeee(purring in an extremely hopeful way)Quote:
Originally Posted by demon rob
There's two fatal points in your claims: Microsoft is a damn big company, and I hate many of their games, except for Age of Empires. ~D Of course, I agree with your point. I'm an official fanboy now.Quote:
Originally Posted by demon rob
I know it's sarcasm, but...Yes it is. No...it's worse. Look! King Philip II Augustus of France DON'T deserve to die at 56!!! Neither do Frederick I Barbarossa!Quote:
Originally Posted by demon rob
In the meantime I find myself sometimes...deliberately...trying to stop myself from directly/intentionally exploit the save-load bug. ~;p
It's intersting to note that at COM, in cavarly doesn't work thread, some CA officials replied that they checked the issue and confirmend that cavalry charge does work.
Now, would someone look into issues if not planning to do the patch?
Hope springs eternal I guess. I made my statement based on the below link. I don't know how much more specific anyone needs.Quote:
Originally Posted by player1
http://p223.ezboard.com/fshoguntotal...cID=6403.topic
Quote:
Originally Posted by Intrepid Sidekick
PMFJI, but I haven't been around in awhile, and I can't resist.
In answer to your question, there are TWO:
1) Shogun: Total War
and
2) Medieval: Total War.
In addition, one must mention the effort of WesW and his MedMod, which frankly is the supreme Total War incarnation.
BTW, regarding "keeping the faith", I believe you may be among the many *Newbies* that RTW has brought forth (including devs), and consequently may not be aware, but there are a goodly number of the Total War faithful who have been "keeiping the faith" behind The Creative Assembly's promise, NOTE: that is a paid my hard earned money for promise, of a Multiplay Campaign.
Keeping the faith? How long has it been? 3, 4 YEARS!
RTW is a royal screwing of the faithful.
Sorry, my *faith* well runneth dry....
TW web site Sux lol.
Rome Tw sux lol :)
I dont care what they do any more tell you the truth,
CA arent as good as ea when it coemes to the Tw games, but
EA let me down by closing server so i no longer Buy any of there games after all whos to say All there games wont suffer same fate,
and personaly With the patches so far I hope they Stop playing with things they dont understand :P
still cant complain all day,
Still love shogun,
but I played rome tw again today
(thing still sux compared to shougun )
lol im gonna leave now b4 i start really complaining.
:bow: