Arthurian : Total War

Arthurian : Total War official forum is now hosted by Imperium TW at this URL :
http://s10.invisionfree.com/Imperium...p?showforum=44

List of the previews:

Arthurian TW Preview 26th June: Campaign Map
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=66334

Arthurian: Total War Private Beta
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65121

Arthurian TW Preview 25th May: Engle & Ebrauc
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65122

Arthurian TW Preview 7th May: The Seaxe/Saxons
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=64393

Arthurian TW Preview 18th April: Picts and Gododdin
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63744

Arthurian: Total War Trailer#1
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=63314

Arthurian TW Preview 17th March: Ui Neill & Rheged
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=62569

Arthurian TW Preview 2d March: Gwent & Powys
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=61907

Arthurian TW sneak peak
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=61224

Arthurian TW Preview 26th January: Dyfneint
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=60261

Arthurian: Total War Map and Icon Preview
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showt...ight=arthurian


Arthurian : Total War is a mod project I have, based on Barbarian Invasions xpack.

Action will take place during Britain dark ages, in Britain and in Northern Gaul. I have choose 481 AD for the starting date, and it will end in the VIIIth or late VIIth century.

Featured region :

https://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a...h/britain2.jpg

For this time I have choosed those factions :
- 11 Britons factions, like Domnonia, Gododdin, Gwynedd or Rheged...
- 3 Irish factions, Dal Riada, Mumainha and the Ui Neills
- the Picts
- 3 Anglo-Saxons factions : Saxons, Angles and Juts.
- the Franks

COMPLETE FACTION LIST :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...8&postcount=43

Another map I have made (continental provinces not showned) :

https://img384.imageshack.us/img384/5167/map032go.jpg

COMPLETE PROVINCES LIST :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...8&postcount=43

Britons will have very good units and an extended territory but will have to fight on every fronts : rebels kingdoms, Scots of Dal Riada, Picts, Angles, and Saxons.
If you choose Domnonia, you can own Arthur at the beginning of the game (there is no historical evidence but Arthur might have be from Domnonia, and became Amherawdyr 'Imperator' of Britain, or High-King, a successor of the romans governors).
The north Britons will got strong warlords like Urien Rheged, Rydderch Hael of Strathclyde, or Maelgwn Gwynned.
But Saxons will have Cerdic and Scots Aedan mac Gabran.

So Britons will have strong cavalry, romans-like soldiers, and 'Clan Warriors'.
Germans will got a powerful infantry, berserkers and axemen.
Picts will got terribles warriors, with not a good defense but very strong attack, and will be experts at ambush.
Irish will got tribal warriors, lancers, and a lot of javelinemen.

COMPLETE UNIT LIST :
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...0&postcount=86

Fortress will be hillforts, roman cities, etc...

MOD PROGRESS :
We have done a lot in historic researchment.
Faction research : we got 20 factions, factions descriptions are to done.
Symbol research : we got symbol ideas, but none are done yet.
Units research : we have done a lot of Britons units. We need help to find some ideas (historically accurate if possible) for AoR/unique units for the Britons, for more saxons and pictish units, for franks and wisigoths units, and to complete all of our descriptions.
Skinning/Modeling : we need skinners and modelers.
Mapping : map_heights is done.
Codding/texting : none is done.

So if it interest you and if you have not mod project for this summer and/or this autumn please told me ~D

WE ARE RECRUITING MODDERS, ESPECIALLY SKINNERS AND MODELERS !

Our team :
Agraes : project leader, historical research, maybe latter codding.
Ian : historical research, maybe latter codding and mapping.
Ranika : historical research
Thrashaholic : historical research
Spongly : historical research

Original thread on esprit-str : http://forums.esprit-str.com/viewtop...er=asc&start=0

My article on Arthur (in French) : http://membres.lycos.fr/paladinceltique/Arthur.htm

A very good website on the celts (in French) : www.arbre-celtique.com

And in English, this site : www.earlybritishkingdoms.com

sounds good, read bernard Cornwell's warlord chronicles, its about arthur and is actually very historical, I could help with history, i'm like that.

Hey can i just say PLEASE MAKE THIS OR GET SOMEONE IN WHO CAN!!!!

If i can help in any way i will. Being a Welshman and living about 5 miles from a debated spot of Arthurs last stand on the river Ogmore its something i have grown up being interested in. I have no modding abilities but if theres anyway you feel i can help let me know although you seem to have the historical research fairly well done. Just to let you know i am anout to graduate with a degree in Ancient and Medieval history. Dne a bit of work on Welsh history and also the roman occupation etc

Well, I got a good knownledge of the V and VIth Britain (and Britanny) and I have a lot of book to read this summer ~D

But if we are several working on gathering informations the mod will be better ~;)

And if somebody is a specialist of Picts, Irish, or Saxons in the darkages it will be very interesting for me.

I have also read Warriors Chronicles, very good novels ! If only the last movie on Arthur have take a such scenario...

Yes, I had to tell you that there wouldn't be any sarmatian warriors in this mod ! May be sarmatian's inspired cavalry, with their particular spear, and bowmen with composite bow.

about the map, extend the dal radia's holdings a little north, i believe they held land to the north of the isle of skye.
i would like to help you in any way i can (even if you are a heathen frenchman ~D ) doing reserch of the military of that period etc... and i can do very basic text editing(changing the names of factions and whatnot)

Well the map wasn't made for the mod but for my article on Arthur ~D

So, I have just post few hours ago and there is a several enthusiastic people that have answered me, I think that we can begun with the faction and unit discussion :knight:

Quote:

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(even if you are a heathen frenchman )

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Yeah I am ~D
But remembers the Llydaw's Blackshields if you have read the Armes Prydein Vawr from the Book of Taliesin ~:cool:

Llydaw = Letavia = Britanny ~D

This is the banner I have made :
http://img291.echo.cx/img291/6380/atwbanner4yk.jpg

and in a smaller version :

http://img291.echo.cx/img291/728/atwbannersmall0np.jpg

About factions; the terms, south britons and north britons seem to general, if possible, due to faction limitation of 21, have dumnonia, powys, reghed (preferably north and south) and Gwynedd. Saxons are easy, angles, saxons maybe jutes (jutes are kinda small so maybe make a rebel province). North picts, south picts and Dal radia up in scotland, dunno bout ireland about 3 factions there. if my count is correct we have spaces left for more factions, e.g Gwent and Manau, hopefully manau so us manx can kick saxon butt.

sound good?

good map and region sit
http://www.kessler-web.co.uk/History...BritishMap.htm

I have think about it in the past, and finally I have choosed to do 2 Bretons factions between 4 possibilities :

- a lot of Britons factions, for each main kingdom like you said : Domnonia, Rheged, Powys, Dyfed, Ebrauc and others, including Domnonée, Kernyw and Bro-Erec in Brittany. But if I choosed that the starting date would be 530 AD, when Arthur is dead. The problem is that the bretons factions will not be very differents each others, and at the beginning they will control very few provinces. And will we do the same for Irish and Picts eventualy.
- 3 Britons factions : North, South, and Britons of Brittany.
- 2 Britons factions
- only one briton faction

I think you love the idea of a manau faction ~D
I have plan to make it a rebell province, for all I know your isle have been sometime under Breton control (Gododdin, Rheged, Strathclyde, Galloway ?) and sometime under Scot control, befoire the Viking Invasion.


So I ask the question to everybody : would you like a lot of Britons factions, with a beginning at the death of Arthur, or only two bretons factions, and controling Arthur ?

I have also read a preview of BI on heavengames, it is said that a faction can emerge from another faction (the redactor take the exemple of the Goths from the Ostrogoths).

I think it will be very fine to begin with Arthur and one or twice Britons factions, and when he is dead, a lot of rebellions and the emergence of new kingdoms, if the expansion can make it !

well, if BI does allow factions to emerge then i will go with you, we need to be sure however and if we find out it doesn't then we should go for many factions (inc. manau ~D ) with dumnonia under arthurs control.
and also if you look of that kessler web map, click one of the countries and it'll give you a history

This map will be very good for our mod ~D
But there is no historical evidence with a lot of informations given, far of it ! There is a cruel lack of source for this period... we didn't called it Dark Ages for nothing ! ~;) And the king lists have been wrote between the XII and the XVth century.

Some historians believe that Arthur was only a warlord, or a local king, others that he was the High King or the Amherawdyr of Britain, successor of Emrys Gwledig, and this is my favorite theory !

A very good website with the Gododdin, the Book of Taliesin, the Welsh Triads, Nennius, Gildas and more : http://www.ancienttexts.org/library/...xts/index.html

I agree with Arthur only being a warlord and historical sources tell us that at that period many people named there sons either Arthur or Arturius after a prominent WARLORD ath that time cant remember where i read that.
And btw i found info that says the isle of Man (or ynys manaw) was independant under Manannan and his offspring from 500 until about 650-675 A.D so an independant manx country isnt so far fetched.
~:cool:

See below for an updated list
FACTION LIST

BRITONS (Christian)
- South Britons, and if we can those who follows we be put as emerging factions during the game : Dumnonia and/or Powys and/or Dyfed and/or Gwent plus 2-3 continental kingdoms
- North Britons, the same with Gododdin and/or Ebrauc and/or Elmet and/or Gwynedd and/or Strathclyde and/or Rheged

IRISH (Christian)
- Gaëls
- Scots

PICTS
- North Picts ? (Pagans, converted by Columba around 550)
- South Picts ? (Christians about this date and the conversion by St Ninnian)

GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans)
- Angles (Pagans)
- Jutes ? (Pagans)
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)
- Wisigoths ? (Aryans Christians)

OTHERS
- Gallo-Romans ? (maybe only rebels)

So we got 8 basic factions, who can be extended to 21.

PROVINCES LIST

BRITAIN, Pictland :
- Cat - ?
- Fidach - ?
- Ce - ?
- Circind - ?
- Fotla - ?
- Fortiu - ?
- Fib - ?
- Orkney - ?

BRITAIN, Scots :
- Dal Riada - Dunad?
- Iona - Iona
maybe the differents 'Cenell' like Cenell Gabrain, Cenell Aengus...

BRITAIN, Gwyr y Goggled :
- Strathclyde - Dun Breatann
- Galwyddel (Galloway) - ?
- Manau - ?
- Gododdin - Din Eidyn
- Bryneich - ?
- Caer Wenddoleu - Caer Wenddoleu
- Ebrauc - Caer Ebrauc/Eboracum
- North Penines - ?
- South Penines - ?
- North Rheged - Carlisle
- South Rheged - ?
- Goddeu - ?
- Elmet - ?
- Gwynedd - Dinas Emrys or Din Conwy
- Rhos - ?
- Ynis Manaw - ?
- Mona - ?

BRITAIN, South Britons :
- Dumnonia - ? (lot of differents interestings places)
- Kernyw (for me only exist after the battle of Dyrham, about 570 ) - Isca or Tintagel
- Llyonesse (a bit too legendary ?) - ?
- Glastenning - ?
- Ynis Weith - ?
- Caer Baddan - Badd/Baddon/Badon/Aquae Sulis
- Caer Gwinntguic - ?
- Caer Celomion - ?
- Caer Lundein - Caer Lundein/Londinium
- Caer Ceri - ?
- Caer Gloui - Caer Gloui/Glouvia
- Pengwern - ?
- Gwent - Caerleon-upon-Uisc/Caer Legionis
- Ergyng - ?
- Glywising - ?
- Dyfed/Demetia - Caer Myrddin/Carmarthen
- Brycheiniog - ?
- Ceredigion - ?
- Builth - ?
- Powys - Luggvale?

BRITAIN, Saxons :
- Regia - ?
- Sussex - ?
- Wessex - ?
- Kent (Juts) - ?
- Tanet Island (Juts) - ?
- Colun?

BRITAIN, Angles :
- Anglia - ?
- Fens - ?
- Mercia - ?
- Lindsey - ?
- Deira - ?

IRELAND, Scots :
- Uladh
+ differents cenells

IRELAND, Gaëls :
- Laigin -
- Connacht -
- Mide - Tara
- Mumhan - ?

GAUL, South Britons :
- Cornouailles/Kernyw/Civitas Ossismi (maybe 2 provinces) - Vorgium/Carhaez
- Domnonée/Civitas Coriosoliti - Alet
- Bro-Erec/Civitas Veneti - Vannes/Gwened (stay independant to the early VIIth century)

GAUL, Franks and/or Gallo-Romans
- Civitas Riedones - Rennes/Condate
- mmm much others civitas, as you can see there :dizzy2: http://img30.echo.cx/img30/8679/gaule4dk.jpg

GAUL, Wisigoths :
- Civitas Namneti - Nantes
- Civitas Pictones - ?

Ok, this is for the moment, I will add unit list later.

Ok, first unit list ! Keep in mind that we must modify it when we got the unit list of BI for Romano-British, Celts, Saxons and Franks !

See below for an updated list
UNIT LIST

BRITONS UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Heavy cavalry
- Contus cavalry (Sarmatian's inspired cavalry with long spear but no shield and heavy armor)
- Mounted skirmishers
- Light cavalry
- Dumnonian cavalry (need to control Domnonia)
- Llydaw cavalry (need to control Brittany)
- Clan cavalry

Infrantry :
- Heavy spearmen
- Light spearmen
- Clan spearmen
- Clan warriors
- Foederati Infrantry (unit of the expansion, armed with spear)
- Britons Legionnaries
- Llydaw Blackshields (need to control Brittany)
- Peasants

Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Bowmen
- Skirmisher
- Slinger
- Mountain raider (like the Welsh Bandit of Viking Invasion)

IRISH UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Clan cavalry
- Light cavalry
- Fianna cavalry ?

Infantry :
- Heavy spearmen
- Light spearmen
- Pikemen
- Gallowglasses
- Clan warriors
- Clan spearmen
- Highlanders?
- Bonnachts
- Fianna infantry ?

Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Kerns
- Dartmen
- Slingers

PICTISH UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Pictish cavalry
- Light cavalry

Infantry :
- Spearmen
- Berserkers like's Warriors
- Clan Warriors
- Highlanders ?
- Pictish Peasants
- Pictish females
- Miathi Warriors

Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Crossbowmen ?
- Pictish bowmen
- Pictish Skirmishers
- Miathi Skirmishers

WISIGOTHS UNITS :
Mmm no real idea for the moment.

FRANKS UNITS :
Same, will see with the units of the xpack !

SAXONS/ANGLES UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Light cavalry
- Saxon raiders

Infrantry :
- Heavy spearmen
- Light spearmen
- Berskerkers
- Axemen
- Fyrdmen
- Ulfserks
- Huskarls (general unit)

Skirmishers :
- Skirmisher
- Slinger

Others :
- War Hounds

MERCENARY/REBELS UNITS :
- Frison Pirats
- Juts Warriors
- Irish Warband
- ...

Some pictures will come...

I started work on a campaign map for an arthurian mod ages ago. I'll see if I can find it for you. It went north up to the wall north of hadrians wall (whats it called?), down so that it included Aremorica and the north of the Franc territory, and half of Ireland

I think that's the Antonine Wall.

The wall of antoninius pius, oooh go me! :book:

Quote:

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I started work on a campaign map for an arthurian mod ages ago. I'll see if I can find it for you. It went north up to the wall north of hadrians wall (whats it called?), down so that it included Aremorica and the north of the Franc territory, and half of Ireland

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Looks very interesting, but we will need entire Ireland and Pictland also ~D
And that's very kind of you ~D

But the map can be extended West, I will ask Supertw for it. Aniway we cant finish the map before BI is out.

You could make Hadrians Wall A landmark on the campaign map, the wall further north was only made from wood and earth, in 161 tho they left the wall and went back to Hadrians wall.

The vallum of Antonius was a little one but this line got a very strategic role to keep the Picts north ! With the 2 fortress of Dumbarton and Din Eidynn. The area between the 2 walls was owned by Britons foederati likes the Votudani of Cunedda, allied with the Romans, and in late Vth century here were the kingdoms of Strathclyde and Gododdin.

Agraes I made a Welsh unit list for the MTW 'Fury of the Northmen' mod a while back, and did some research regarding provinces, names etc. if you want to have a look PM me or something.

Good luck with your mod, I'll look forward to playing it.

I have send you a MP trashaholic, thanks for your help ~D

For the moment I need to find the differents cities of each province.

I need also subjections for the unit lists.

And finally, this is the bretons factions that I suggest :
- As a main faction : South Britons, who will own Domnonia, Kernyw, Gwent, and some other territories.
- For another main faction, I will keep North Bretons, they will own Rheged, Goddeu, Penines.
For emerging factions (if possible)
- Llydaw (Brittany)
- Powys
- Gwynedd
- Gododdin
- Strathclyde
- Ebrauc
- Elmet
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel ~D

Featured Historic Battles
A list of some of the battles we can include in the mod.

- The Battle of Mynidd Baddon (Badon Hill), fight around 500 AD (several historians believe 496, but the Welsh annals give 516) between Arthur and the Saxons. A supposed place is Little Solsbury Hill, near the modern Bath. This battle seems to be a feature of the expansion.
In the Historia Brittonum, Nennius write that Badon was the 12th battle of Arthur, and during the journey he kill 960 men :dizzy2:
The Welsh annals said that Arthur wear the christian cross during 3 days and 3 nights.
- The Battle of Camlann : death of Arthur and Medrawt (the annals didn't said that Arthur and Medrawt were allied or ennemis), in 537 (or 542).
- The Battle of Arderydd between Peredur and Gwrgi ap Ellifer and Gwenddoleu of Caer Wenddoleu, in 573, this last one died and his bard Myrddin flee in the Celidon forest.
- The Battle of Catterick, between Britons and the Angles of Bernicia. The XIIth century welsh poem 'Y Gododdin', attribued to Aneurin (who lived in the late VIth century), tell this battle, it is said that only one Briton came back to Din Eidyn.
- many others battles... ~D

Well, interesting screenshots from Barbarian Invasions :

http://img234.exs.cx/img234/8892/thebiansmall7rm.jpg
On this one you can see a saxon army facing the Romano-Briton cavalry crossing a river

http://pcmedia.gamespy.com/pc/image/...3040931603.jpg

Awesome ~:cheers:

Keep at it, guys. Too bad BI is so far away!

I have worked on Arthurian-era mods for my own enjoyment; they just used the VI map, I added some factions and tweaked the units, but it was fun. Best of luck; I'll be looking for this mod when you finish!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agraes

BRITAIN, Gwyr y Goggled...
- Ynis Manaw - ?

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Ynys manaw - Either Bally Cashtal(castletown) or Cashtal Rosien(Castle Rushen, which is the citadel in castletown)

As people on TWC also ask me to put several briton kingdoms I will do it ~;)

This is the scenario : Arthur is the new king of Domnonia, but he is also the high king of the Britons ! But a lot of others britons kingdoms have claimed their autonomy since the death of Emrys Gwledig, the uncle of Arthur and the last high king, or Amherawdyr. Arthur - and his successors - have to re-unite south britain under one king, to face Saxons !
The Domnonians will control Domnonia, Kernyw, Gwent, Glywising, Caer Lundein, Caer Glew, and Brittany !
I think give to this faction the control of continental territories seems interesting, cause they will got another main front facing Franks and Wisigoths.

Sounds good to me! all we need now is the map and we can get started proper, oh and a skinner etc...

Well I think that we cant finish the map before BI is out, cause there will be several modifications added by CA in BI, but I hope we can begun the work on it (on the .tga).
If somebody want to skin some units, he can also do it... but for the moment, not the main units who may be presents in the x-pack. I have ordered 3 Osprey books (Pictish Warrior, Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars, Anglo-Saxon Thegn) and I will probably order 3 history books (but there are a little expensive ~D ) :
- Age of Arthur, John Morris
- Arthur's Britain, Leslie Alcock
- Origines de la Bretagne, Léon Fleuriot

And as I have said, I need :
- Pictish specialists
- Saxons specialists
- Irish specialists

but I also accept any welsh specialist in the team. So say clearly if you want to join my team and what you wanna do in the team (historical research, codding, skinning, mapping, modeling...). You can contact me on MSN (agraes1@aol.com) or on my mail adress : agraes@wanadoo.fr

And remember I am also working at this time on Gallia : Total War, based on RTW vanilla ~D

Awsome, idea, i think we should have a constant like Druidic/pagan vs. incoming christian feud, like in mists of Avalon

Erps, no more pagan remaining in Britain at this time ! Or very few ones, but all the druids of Britain were slained by the Romans in Mona around 50 AD. Britons (except thoses of Strathclyde and Gododdin) at this time were romans and christians.
Irish were christians also, South Picts have been converted by St Ninnian few time before, North Picts by Columba around 550, Franks under Clovis reign, Wisigoths were aryan christians, only Saxons and Angles stay pagans, to the late VIIth century if I remember ~D

well Agraes, count me on the team for research, any research you want i'll do ( i have a large library near me so i can go there) ~:cheers:

The city list given by Nennius in his 'Historia Brittonum', Xth century.

Caer Guorthigirn : Vortigern's Fortress (=Dynas Emrys ?)-> for Gwynedd ?
Cair Guinntguic : Winchester (Venta Belgarum) -> for Guinntguic
Cair Mincip : Verulamium ?
Cair Ligualid : Carlisle -> for North Rheged
Cair Meguaid : Lindisfarne -> for Bryneich/Bernicia
Cair Colun : Colchester ? -> for Colun
Cair Ebrauc : York -> for Ebrauc
Cair Custoeint : Constantin's Fortress
Cair Caratauc : Caradoc's Fortress
Cair Grauth : Cambridge -> ?
Cair Maunguid : Manchester -> ?
Cair Lundein : London -> Lundein
Cair Ceint : Canterbury -> Kent
Cair Guiragon : Canterbury ?
Cair Peris : Llanperis ?
Cair Daun : Doncaster -> ?
Cair Legion : Chester (Deva) -> Gwynedd ? South Rheged ?
Cair Guricon : Wroxeter -> ?
Cair Segeint : Caernarvon -> ?
Cair Legeion Guar Uisc : Caerleon-Upon-Uisc -> Gwent or Glywising
Cair Guent : Caerwent -> Gwent ?
Cair Brithon : Dumbarton (Dun Breatann) -> Strathclyde
Cair Lerion : Leicester ?
Cair Drathou : Drathou Fortress
Cair Pensa vel Coyt : Penselwood fortress
Cair Urnac : Urnac Fortress -> Ynis Mona ?
Cair Celemion : Celemion Fortress -> Celemion
Cair Luit Coyt : Wall-by-Lichfield -> ?

Quote:

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well Agraes, count me on the team for research,

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Ok, nice ~D

So Team :
- Agraes (Project Leader, Historical research & codding)
- Ian_of_smeg16 (Historical research)

-> contact me on MSN

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Agraes

The city list given by Nennius in his 'Historia Brittonum', Xth century.
Cair Daun : Doncaster -> ?

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Will be in south rheged(sp?), lol include it cos i was born there

Well, I'd be happy to be a Pictish and Saxon expert - Saxon stuff is a hobby, but my degree is "MA (Hons) Celtic Civilisation, and I did a few courses on the Picts.

Speaking of which, the evidence that Columba ever converted the Picts is slim - Bede says he did, but the Life by Adomnan of Iona says no such thing, and no later tradition to that effect exists in the north either.

Also, for units for all sides, I would consider them according to their social position rather than equipment. For example, having "Saxon Ceorls", and "Thegns", "Hall Thegns", "Gesithas" and so on is much better than "light and heavy spearmen", in my opinion - also, huskarl is a much later Danish term for a household warrior. A King's bodyguard or companion is a "heorthgeneat" or "gesith".

Picts should get a nice pike phalanx too - I'll try and dig out some pics of the Aberlemno stone to show you what I mean on that.

Anyway, sorry to babble, but I'd be very enthusiastic about helping out with this on the research front, so if you need any help, give me a shout!

wow, i feel humbled, theres this guy with a masters history and all i have atm is a 'C' grade in my Mock GCSE history exams. oh and a library... :book: ~D

Agraes, i added you to my msn, i hope you dont mind

It sounds really nice, Spongly ! For the moment I have only put 'standarts' for all faction. Thrashaholic have PM me for Briton units, so now with you we have Briton/Welsh, Saxon and Pictish specialists. Really good !
We only need now an Irish specialist, but I have contacted one.

so hows the mod coming??

I have spoke with Ranika, member of EB and specialist of the Celts, he have wrotten really interesting posts on the dedicated Age of Vikings and Fanatics forum for the Gaels. He is very busy but he will try to help us, so the team is now :
Team :
- Agraes (Project Leader, Historical research & codding)
- Ian (Historical research)
- Spongly (Historical research - Saxon and Pictish specialist)
- Thrashaholic (Historical research - Briton/Welsh specialist)
- Ranika (Historical research - Irish specialist)

I will edit faction, provinces and unit lists with some changes tomorow. This is the work we have do done in the following weeks :
- Finish provinces discussions by adding others kingdoms and find all cities.
- Discuss units, if you have you can post some pictures associated.

Scots should be called Dal Riadans, Scotland wouldn't exist for a very long time from the start of this period (and not even within this period); the Irish and Dal Riadans should share the same units for the most part. Dal Riada is seen just as a kind of tribe in this early period, only around 500 AD is it recognized as a seperate kingdom. I offer the same unit list for age of vikings and fanatics; they really changed very little in this period. The clothing worn by both; a long shirt to the knee (kilts didn't exist yet), a shoulder cloak (covers just the shoulders and upper chest), boots that come up over the ankle, a belt.

For factions, I recommend; Dal Riada, the Ui Neill, and the Mumainha (if you have the space). The Mumainha also paint themselves with blue dye, so remember that in addition to the information above when doing their skins. An important thing to bear in mind; the Dal Riadans considered themselves Irish, not a seperate group, in this period. They used pretty much all the same traditions and soldiers, many of which (like slingers, berserkers, etc.) they dropped later on or used substantially less. Also, while almost all of these units have throwing spears, unless mentioned, they don't fight as skirmishers.

Kernbannal ('Levy Troop'; unarmored club or spear militia with darts, fight as skirmishers) -
Description - The hierarchy of Gaelic societies is a bit unusual; it lacks feudal nobles and the subsequent varying ranks of nobles and peasants. However, Kerns tend to fall near the bottom. Without much money or inherent fighting ability, they cannot afford good equipment, nor are they likely to be sponsored by an arras (aristocrat). However, that matters little. Most of the time, a kern is just a man called up to form a militia in times of strife, and fight with whatever is on hand; usually hunting spears or solid clubs, accompanied by light, small javelins, often called darts. Later, kerns would become the basic soldier of Irish armies, but in this period are only militia.

Soikernbannal ('Levy Archer Troop'; only Gaelic archers they would have, levy archers with knives, hooded cloaks, hide in tall grass, but not really much good) -
Description - Gaels rarely employ professional archers as soldiers, except mercenaries. They, personally, see little value in archers. However, when they do employ their own, they tend to be simple levies of hunters, who, while proficient with their bows, are not soldiers, and easily chased off of a battlefield if engaged not properly defended, or if engaged in a melee.

Sleanaghta (Spearmen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather vest/coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The slea or gae (spear) is the preferred weapon of most Gaelic soldiers. Accompanied with heavy throwing spears and a solid Gaelic targe, these spearmen form the backbone of any Gaelic army. They are professional soldiers, who either bought their equipment, or were sponsored by a wealthier member of society. They are intended to hold positions, and are often placed around missile troops to defend them from cavalry and any other threats that might occur.

Tuanaghta (Axemen with heavy throwing spears, large round shield, leather helmet, and padded coat (Irish)/leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The tua (axe) is one of the oldest and most favored weapons of the Gaels. The Gaelic axe has a particularly weighty head, meant to crush helmets and smash shields. With it, like most Gaels carry, are carried two heavy throwing spears, thrown into an enemy position before a charge. The Gaelic axemen act as a kind of bridge between medium and heavy infantry.

Claiomhnaghta (Mid-length swordsmen with javelins, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The claiomh, climh, or clom (sword) is an expensive weapon, but generally well made. Faster than an axe, and generally more wieldy than a spear, it allows the soldier using it to manuever into position for thrusts and slashes. The typical Gaelic sword is shorter than a longsword, but not a shortsword. It generally has a leaf-shaped blade, meant to offer wide, sheering cuts, and devestating thrusts that open wide, gaping wounds. It is accompanied with a heavy Gaelic targe, and three light throwing spears; these spears are favored for swordsmen, so to enhance the mobility of these soldiers, but keep them able to fight in the traditional Gaelic manner.

Gaemornaghta (Spearmen with long, two-handed spears (not actually pikes though), maybe use phalanx, or schiltron, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Dal Riadans)) -
Description - The Gaemor or Gaemhor (great spear) is a lengthy spear generally used in two hands. It is used in a tight formation as an anti-cavalry and anti-infantry measure; it is difficult to manuever past a wall of spear heads. While in use for centuries, this type of soldier grew increasingly more common among the Gaels as the dark ages and middle ages drove on; a response to the growing importance of cavalrymen.

Guirran (Horsemen with javelins, and an axe/spear in melee, large round shield, leather helmet, padded coat (Irish), leather coat (Scots)) -
Description - Gaelic light cavalry sticks to the common methods of Gaelic combat. They are skirmishers by default, meant to ride toward an opponent, throw javelins, and retreat, ad infinitum. Training and experience has made them fairly good at this, and the Guirran (horsemen), later called hobblers or hobilars, became a staple of English and French armies as well.

Amguirran Ridire (Gaelic heavy cavalry with axes/swords, and lance, large-ring chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, should be a bit late period) -
Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Ridire are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On horseback, they form the Amguirran (heavy horsemen); Gaels don't tend to use much heavy cavalry, but when they do, they form a powerful reserve on the field for mowing down enemy infantry.

Ridire (Gaelic heavy infantry with axes, large-ring chain armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, throwing spears) -
Description - Champions in Gaelic culture are afforded some of the best weapons and equipment. The Ridire are the Gaelic equivalent of 'knights'; they have a patron who provides them with equipment, training, and gifts for performing well. On foot, they form heavy infantry soldiers, with throwing spears, like most other Gaelic infantry, to disrupt an enemy line before charging. When defending, they use a tight shieldwall, to absorb charges.

Arras (Gaelic general unit, foot nobles with swords, scale armor, large round shield, iron conical helmet, javelins) -
Description - Gaelic 'nobility' are drawn from numerous places; everyone from the lowest chief to the high king are considered Arras, as well as indepedent, wealthy merchants and traders. They can afford the best training, the best equipment, and the best soldiers to support them. Like other Gaels, they carry javelins to throw at their enemies before charging, and form a tight shieldwall-like formation to absorb an attack. They use long slashing and thrusting swords, which are fairly rare among Gaels. The heavy Gaelic targe, good quality scale armor, and a well-made iron helmet, provide them great protection against their enemies.

Rastriagha (Berserkers, use a cudgel or hammer, round shield, probably wearing a crucifix (they were fanatics of different saint cults, and also generally trained soldiers), no armor) -
Description - The Gaels have their own berserker tradition, stemming from pagan times, but adapted well into the Christian era. The Irish are generally very fervent people; the most fervent soldiers tend to belong to saint cults, such as the cult of St. Finbar. Their devotion to their people and the Church keeps them constantly training. Many even join monastaries and are actually monks or priests. In battle, they enter a kind of religious-inspired frenzy, and kill anyone they see as a threat to Ireland or Christianity.

Inishnaghta (Irish islanders from the satellite islands of Ireland, with heavy cloaks, no armor, large round shield, bipenne axe (two blades), heavy throwing spears, leather helmet, painted skin regardless of faction, Ui Neill and Mumainh only; available in the western provinces of Ireland only) -
Description - The islanders of Ireland live among the many sattelite islands. They fight with a version of the Gaelic axe, with two blades, and carry heavy throwing spears. They still paint their skin, and are some of the bravest soldiers in Ireland, though they wear no armor, but a helmet, and instead use a heavy cloak as defense.

Maiobhanaghta (Gaelic slingers with knives and a small round shield, padded armor, leather helmet, better than their archers, and slings are substantially longer range than a normal bow) -
Description - The sling is still a popular weapon among the Gaels. It is far longer range than a regular bow, and a sling bullet of clay or stone is surprisingly deadly. Slingers in use by the Gaelic often are used to harass an enemy from great distance. Further, they are professional soldiers, not levies like Gaelic archers.

Caeisornaghta (Gaelic macemen, with a round-headed mace {not flanged, like medieval period mace} or modified work hammer, round shield, throwing spears, leather helmet, padded armor) -
Description - The mace is an old, simple weapon. While popularized widely in Europe by the advent of plate armor, Gaels, the Irish particularly, have used the mace for centuries, with a smooth spherical or egg-shaped head, or a hammer head. They are another arm of Gaelic infantry, and fight like axe or spearmen, with heavy spears thrown before a charge. The mace is essentially a glorified club, but it is very effective against most types of armor and any shield.


On Gaelic structures; the Gaels built stone-faced ring walls around their largest towns and cities, called cashels. The center of the settlement is generally the local chief, chieftan, or king's personal residence, or that of a powerful judge, businessman, or clergyman. This can be a manor, but the most extravagant were generally large stone towers. The Gaels built less permanent dirt paths, but also more permanent wood 'highways', and raised roads in swamps. Gaels built round structures mainly.

Place names in Ireland; Meath is Midhe, capitol is Teamhaidh/Teamhair (Tara), Ulster is Ulaid, and is divided into three regions (Oirgaillia/Airgallia; East Gaels, capitol of Eahmain Macha, with Armagh in the south, actually the southern region of Ulster, Ulaidh, capitol of Raithmhor; takes up the eastern side of Ulster; Ui Neillia, the western side of Ulster, capitol of Cenell, depending on period), Leinster is Laigin, capitol of Dun Ailinne, Connacht is in two; Connaght (the northern 2/3rds; capitol of Cruachu) and Tuad (the southern 1/3rd, capitol of Killardan; eventually became Tuadmumu), Munster is in two; Desmumu (eastern half, capitol of Caiseal), and Eoghanaght (western half, capitol of Orliglin). Other potential regions (give the scale of the map); Inisharanna (capitol of Inishmhor), and a whole mileu of clan regions.

Remember that Ireland and Britain are much more heavily forested in this period, and both are covered in rivers.

UPDATE

FACTION LIST
Playables
BRITONS (Christian)
- Domnonia
- Rheged
- Powys
- Gwynedd
- Gododdin
- Strathclyde
- Ebrauc
- Elmet
- Ynis Manaw & Galwyddel
- Gwent & Glywysing
- Dyfed

IRISH (Christian)
- Ui Neill
- Mumainha
- Dal Riada

PICTS
- Picts (Christians about this date and the conversion by St Ninnian)

GERMANS
- Saxons (Pagans)
- Angles (Pagans)
- Juts (Pagans)

FRANKS
- Franks (Christians during the reign of Clovis)

So 20 factions for the moment. Hoping we will have enought slots !

PROVINCES LIST
* I need somes capitals as you see (but for the Britons it will be easy to find few ones, exemple capital of Lundein = Caer Lundein/Londinium)
* If you want others provinces (I don't have put the provinces of Gaul yet, I will add them later), tell me.

BRITAIN, Pictland :
- Cat - Catichean
- Abron - Abrondihanna
- Fidach - Craig Phadrig?
- Ce - Cechean (Keith)
- Circind - Aberlemno?
- Fotla - Restenneth
- Fortiu - Dundurn?
- Fibb - Abernethy
- Domon - Foncehean
- Aerdrognan (Orkney) - Aerdrognan

BRITAIN, Dal Riada :
- Cenell Baetain - Iona?
- Cenell Loairn - Dun Maoth
- Cenell Gabrain - Dunadd

BRITAIN, Britons :
- Strathclyde - Dun Breatann (Dumbarton)
- Cumbria - ?
- Galwyddel (Galloway) - Din Rheged (Dunragit, near Stranraer)
- Manau - Ad Vallum
- Gododdin - Trapain Law (near Heddington)
- Din Eydin - Din Eidyn (Edinburgh)
- Bryneich – Cathraeth (Catterick)
- Caer Wenddoleu - Caer Wenddoleu
- Ebrauc - Caer Ebrauc/Eboracum (York)
- Dunoting (North Penines) - Dent?
- The Peak (South Penines) - Din Pabo (invention)
- North Rheged – Caer Ligualid (Carlisle)
- South Rheged – Caer Legion/Deva (Chester)
- Goddeu - Caer Goddeu (invention)
- Elmet - Campoduno* (Leeds)
- Gwynedd - Din Conwy (Deganwy)
- Meiryonydd
- Rhos - Din Arth
- Ynis Manaw – Cashtal Rosien
- Ynis Mon - Abberfraw
- Domnonia - Caer Uisc/Isca (Exeter)
- Durotrigia - Caer Durnac/Durnovaria (Dorchester)
- Kernyw (for me only exist after the battle of Dyrham, 577 ) - Tintagel
- Glastenning - Din Cad (South Cadbury Hill)
- Ynis Weith - Din Weith (invention)
- Baddan - Badd/Baddon/Badon/Aquae Sulis (Bath)
- Gwinntguic – Caer Gwinntguic/Venta Belgarum (Winchester)
- Celomion – Caer Celomion (Silchester)
- Lundein - Caer Lundein/Londinium (London)
- Ceri – Caer Ceri (Cirencester)
- Gloui - Caer Gloui/Caer Glew/Glouvia (Gloucester)
- Pengwern - Viroconium* (Wroxeter)
- Gwent - Caer Went (Caerwent)
- Ergyng - Caerleon-upon-Uisc/Caer Legionis (Caerleon)
- Glywising - Caer Teif (Cardiff) or Dinas Powys
- Dyfed/Demetia - Caer Myrddin (Carmarthen)
- Brycheiniog - Caer Sws
- Ceredigion - Din Ceredig (invention)
- Builth - Caer Beris
- Powys - Dinas Bran or Caer Meguaidd/Meifod or Caer Dolforwynn

BRITAIN, Saxons :
- Sussex - Andredesceaster (Pevensey)
- Kent (Juts) - Canterbury
- Tanet Island (Juts) - ?
- Essex - Colchester

BRITAIN, Angles :
- Anglia - ?
- Fens - Leicester
- Lindsey - (Lincoln)
- Bernicia - Lindisfarne
- Deira - ?

IRELAND, Dal Riada :
- Dal Riatta - Dun Ranma (This is the name of the fortress on the coast according to the 'West' cycle, that was captured by the Ui Neill, and effectively expelled the Dal Riadan kingdom from Ireland (though the Dal Riadans still acted as if they were one of the kingdoms)) - Dal Riatta

IRELAND, Ui Neill :
- Ulaidh – Raithmor - Volunta
- Oirulaidh - Eahmain Macha - Eoradha
- Ui Neillia – Cenell Neill - Ui Neill
- Oirgaillia – Ard Macha - Ui Daron
- Mide - Teamhaidh - Ui Oir Neill ('East Niells'; the Ui Neill controlled Teamhaidh as defacto leaders at the time, hence their later claims to 'proper' title of high king, though eventually the east Niells split from the rest of the Ui Neill; also important to note, this is not a big place at the time, it was originally intended just for the families of those who worked in the temples/churches at the hills, so it hadn't really built up much yet)

IRELAND, Mumainha :
- Tuad - Killardan - Ui Broann
- Desmumu - Caiseal - Ui Cormac
- Urmumu - Orliglin - Ui Conchobar
- Gabhonnaoi (Yes, this should be Mumainha, Conglach of Desmumu controlled the chiefs here as his vassals) - Mondonnan - Gabhona

IRELAND, Rebels :
- Goirmide - Dun Rann - Ui Conn
- Oiriagh - Dun Riagh - Riaghan
- Roirragh - Breganna - Braigan
- Inisharanna - Inishmhor - Aranna
- Laigin - Dun Ailinne - Laigini
- Ard Mammo – Cruachu - Connaghta
- Oigallion - Dun Badon - Badon
- Amroi - Dun Amroi - Amroi
- Sloaigha - Rethconn - Relliagh

GAUL, Britons :
- Kernow - Carahès
- Poher - Castel Conomore
- Domnonée - Alet
- Bro-Erec - Aula Regia (Auray)
- Darioritum - Darioritum (Vannes)

UNIT LIST
* Here we have to find others ideas, and to change generic names and standart unit 'heavy spearmen', an others, by more historical ones.
* I also need ideas for regional units (like Domnonian cavalry or Llydaw Blackshields)
* Check https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showp...0&postcount=86 for an updated list with descriptions.

BRITONS UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Marchomawr (Heavy cavalry)
- Marca Contwn (Contus cavalry, Sarmatian's inspired cavalry with long spear but no shield and heavy armor)
- Marchogluoedd (Light cavalry)
- Marca Dumonyna (Domnonian cavalry, need to control Domnonia)
- Marca Llydaw, (Llydaw cavalry, need to control Brittany)
- Teulu

Infrantry :
- Rherel (Heavy spearmen)
- Gwaywffynabwre (Clan spearmen)
- Bonheddwyr
- Rhyfelwyrmawr ("Great Warriors")
- Aeson Llydaw (Blackshields of Letavia, need to control Brittany)
- Bêrfelawre Merionydd (Merionydd long spearmen)
- Arwrweision
- Aulue (town militia)
- Galweddyl Aulue (Gaelic levies)
- Cleddyfcludwra (Sword carriers)
- Milwre
- Campwyrau (Champions)
- Rherel Manau (Heavy Manx Spearmen)
- Galwyddel Ymyll
- Rhyfelwyr Rheged
- Aumabellu
- Galwyddel nobles axemen*
- Strathclyder Swordsmen*


Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Saethwre (Bowmen)
- Rhyfelwyr
- Ardue (Levies)
- Fwnmilwre (Slinger)
- Helwyr (Huntsmen) (like the Welsh Bandit of Viking Invasion)
- Saethwre Powys
- Ardu (Levies)
- Fwnmilwre (Slingers)


IRISH UNITS (lot is done with the great help of Ranika) :
Cavalry :
- Guirran
- Amguirran Ridire
- Carpata

Infantry :
- Kernbannal
- Sleanaghta
- Tuanaghta
- Claiomhnaghta
- Gaemornaghta
- Ridire
- Arras
- Rastriagha
- Inishnaghta
- Caeisornaghta
- Ruardi-Laecha (Ui Neill only, elite)
- Audheran-Laecha (Dal Riada only, elite)
- Corcanneitae (Mumainha only, elite)
- Dinuadda-Claiomhnaghta

Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Soikernbannal
- Maiobhanaghta

PICTISH UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Marchan
- Marchan Tho
- Mormaers

Infantry :
- Ludodaoer
- Schiltron
- Chodaoer
- Northern Warriors
- Gairlom (spearmen)
- Thomordaoer (Two handed axemen)
- Aumue Boai
- Gai Aurmahr ('Spear Masters')

Bowmen and skirmishers :
- Huntsmen
- Youths
- Cingalom (slingers)
- Saiogdaoer (bowmen)

WISIGOTHS UNITS :
Mmm no real idea for the moment.

FRANKS UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Mounted Antrustions (King’s Warband)
- Gallic light cavalry

Infantry :
- Antrustions
- Foederati
- Frankish Warriors
- Miles
- Frankish champions

Skirmishers :
- Frankish Freemen
- Frankish archers

SAXONS/ANGLES UNITS :
Cavalry :
- Cnihtas ("Mounted Retainers")
- Horswhealas

Infrantry :
- Gesithas ("Companions")
- Heorthgeneats ("Hearth-Friends")
- Duguth (Older Warriors)
- Geoguth (Younger Warriors)
- Ceorls ("Peasants")
- Wulfbyrne ("Wolf-shirts")
- Wræccan ("Wanderers")
- Hall Teghn (general unit)*

Skirmishers :
- Geburs ("Serfs")

Others :
- War Hounds*

MERCENARY/REBELS UNITS :
- Frison Pirats*
- Juts Warriors*
- Wræccan (Anglo-Saxon)
- Gasraidha (Irish)
- Babuanna (Irish)
- Horswealas

I also quote there a PM of Thrashaholic with the description of some Britons units, he have done it in the past for a such mod on Viking Invasion.

Quote:

---

Cavalry

Teulu-

Literally meaning “family”, the Teulu were the professional noble bodyguards of individual princes and chieftains. Although cavalry are generally not best suited to the rough hilly and mountainous terrain of Britain, the Teulu often rode into battle. Being of the nobility, the Teulu could afford the best of military equipment and were very well armed by Celtic standards: they wore chain mail and helmets, and carried a shield and a lance, making them a pivotal force on the battlefield.

Royal unit of 40 men
Strong charge
Very good Attack
Good Morale
Armoured

(Should be pretty expensive)

Infantry

Merionydd long spear-men

The spear was the weapon of choice in Wales, with those from the North being particularly skilled in its use. The men of the Merionydd area of Gwynedd were renowned throughout for their superb ability with the spear. The general consensus amongst the Welsh was: “the longer the spear the better”, and as such the men of Merionydd carried spears as long as pikes. As well as their pikes, they had small round shields and fought in Phalanx-like formations.

60 man unit (best in deep formations etc.),
fast,
good defence
weak attack,
no armour
only available in Gwynydd

Ryfelwyr

Constant in fighting between the petty kingdoms of post-Roman Britain and skirmishes with the English led to the Britons becoming accustomed to war, they became a “jack of all trades”, perfectly suited to irregular warfare. Carrying a powerful bow, that could pin a horseman’s leg to his horse, a large sword and a small round shield, the prominent tactics of the Britons were to ambush the enemy, pepper them with arrows and then charge in for the kill.

60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
poor morale

Bonheddwyr

The Bonheddwyr were free nobles, the elite foot soldiers of a Chieftain’s armies. Before a battle these champions would often walk forward in front of their army insulting, taunting and challenging their opposition (much to the amusement of their fellows), and be accompanied by shouting and jeering from the lower ranking men, and the din of their war trumpets. The Bonheddwr were lightly armoured, and the individual carried a spear, a small round shield and several javelins into battle.

40 man unit
fast
strong charge
very good attack
good defence
armoured
good morale

Arwrweision

Literally mean ‘brave men’, the Arwrweision are the veterans of numerous battles, they are the non-noble elite of a British Chieftain’s army. It was considered an honour amongst Britons to be drafted into military service, so all able-bodied men had a weapon and were up for a fight. Carrying similar equipment to their fellow peasants, swords, bows and shields, the defining characteristic of the Arwrweision is that, although they share their comrade’s eagerness for battle, they don’t share their eagerness to run away.

60 man unit
fast
strong charge
good attack
no armour
very good morale

Helwyr (Huntsmen)-

The Welsh people were keen huntsmen and used the hunt to practice the skills needed in battle. There are numerous Welsh stories and poems linked with their passion for hunting, most notably the tale of Prince Llewelyn and his greyhound Gellert. To be a good huntsman meant a men could command a powerful role in the royal courts and society in general, and could become very rich. The Helwyr equipped powerful bows, enabling them to kill the toughest of quarry, but very little close combat weaponry, thus should be kept out of melees.

60 man unit
Very Fast
Very good missile attack/ very accurate
Poor in close combat
Skirmishers
No armour

---

sounds good to me!! is there any research you want me to do? provinces, military, buildings etc...?

EDIT: I can also do concept art for units, but i need to figure out how to incorperate them onto my computer withou a scanner...

Ian, if you want you can :
- found out the different capital cities for each province
- search about architecture of the different factions
- search about unit ideas for each faction (and change english names to celt/saxon names)

You can do some concepts art, and take a photo of those to put it on your PC ! Anyway, Lucterios (who works with me on Gallia : Total War) may do some concept arts later, when he have finished with those of Gallia TW.

No Fianna units for the Irish factions. The Fianna were destroyed during Christianization. Some converted and became bodyguards of the kings, but others saw Christianity as a threat, and turned on the kingdoms (in essence, committed treason) and were destroyed in battle. If you want a special unit like that, maybe the Ruardi-Laecha (Red Warriors). They used longswords, round shields, javelins, wore chain armor, painted their faces with red dyes, and wore a red under-tunic, and fought as a type of elite warrior, on foot and on horseback, but were pretty rare.

Very nice idea ! It sounds intersting to me if the differents factions will have an elite unite. Ruardi-Laecha may be very few number in each unit (less than 30), and take a long time to train.

Anyway they are more historical than the 'Hounds of Culann' that seems to be featured in the xpack.

I should note that the Dal Riadans didn't use them, so it'd probably be best to have a different special elite for them, possibly Audheran-Laecha or Coricanneitae.

The first were elite spearmen, fought unarmored, covered themselves in a kind of white powder, and mostly relied on agility in combat.

Corcanneitae were also used by the men of Munster; they were 'naked fanatics', essentially. Would have an axe, shield, cloak, otherwise be naked.

Sorry guys, but I've lost that map. Sorry if I got ur hopes up :oops:

No matter Myrddraal, thanks you anyway ~D

I think that your map wouln't be 100% compatible with BI, so we got to make a new one with the map of BI (lot of changes... maybe we can make it partially). Same issue for the units skins, but I think we can make a few ones this summer, we will see if we got skinners in the team !

Saxon Units

Some Saxon Units

Gesithas ("Companions")
These are the elite forces of the great Saxon kings and athelings. Handpicked young warriors given the very best equipment and fed from the lord’s table. They swear the mead-bargain with their lord, giving loyalty to the death in return for mead, wealth and land. It is considered the greatest disgrace to live if your lord dies, and such men will be condemned to live as exiles. As a result, these units have exceptional morale, and will fight to the death rather than retreat unless their lord orders it.

(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, swords, mail shirts and helms, all decorated to mark them out from lesser units)

Heorthgeneats ("Hearth-Friends")
This unit represents the hearth-troops of the eorldermen of the land – these nobles are usually chosen from the veterans of the king’s gesithas, and administer land and raise their own warbands. While not as well equipped or skilled as the king’s warriors, these men swear the same oaths to their own lords. They form an elite core of Saxon armies.

(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, swords, some armour and helms. Noble, but not as spectacular looking as above.)

Duguth (Older Warriors)
Thegns are the lowest rank of landholding noble in Saxon society, and are usually either born into the role or chosen from their earl’s warband. They raise their own retinues of warriors, and bring them to battle when their lord calls. These men represent the older veterans of such a warband. They are not all that well equipped or fast, but they are stubborn and excellent at holding the line.

(Heavy infantry with spears, shields, lang-seaxes and helms)

Geoguth (Younger Warriors)
These men are the younger, unmarried warriors of the warbands of the land’s thegns. They are fierce and aggressive, hoping to make a name for themselves and win great rewards from their lord. What they lack in experience, they make up for in enthusiasm. They throw their javelins before engaging the enemy in hand to hand combat.

(Light infantry with spears, shields, helms, javelins and seaxes)

Ceorls ("Peasants")
Ceorls are the ordinary freemen and farmers of Saxon society. They are only very rarely called up to fight, usually only in times of emergency. They are all trained to some degree, as all Saxon freemen own and practice with weapons, but they cannot be expected to hold professional troops for long. They are at their best when standing in a shield wall adding weight to more experienced troops or outflanking the enemy.

(Light Infantry with spears, shields and seaxes, Phrygian hats)

Geburs ("Serfs")
Poorer freemen are mustered for battle with whatever poor weapons they have. Usually they are employed as unarmoured skirmishers, using slings. Some may also carry javelins or staff slings (possibility for more units). They are fast runners, and most live as hunters or fishermen so are quite good at using the terrain to their advantage. Their morale is fragile though, and they cannot be expected to fight hand to hand – that is work for men of noble birth!

(Light infantry with slings and seaxes, Phrygian hats)

Wulfbyrne ("Wolf-shirts")
Since the early days of the German tribes right through to the Viking age, the northern peoples have a tradition of fanatical warriors dedicated to Woden, the god of war and slaughter. These men are utter fanatics who believe themselves invulnerable to weapons, and run into battle wearing only the pelts of wolves. They are impetuous, ferocious and almost unequalled warriors, but there are only a few of them to be mustered. They are best used for breaking enemy shield walls so that other units can pour in behind them.

(Light infantry with wolf pelt cloaks, shields and battle-axes)

Wræccan ("Wanderers")
The Dark Ages are troubled times, and many bands of freebooters, pirates and outcasts from the Germanic tribes can be found across Europe looking for nobles to serve. Saxon kings frequently employ such bands – indeed, the king’s of the Gewissae began as leaders of such freebooting bands. They are savage, having nothing to lose, and experienced, but are treacherous and difficult to control.

(Light Infantry with shields, swords, helms and javelins)

Cnihtas ("Mounted Retainers")
Saxon nobles rode to battle, but dismounted to fight. There is good evidence though that they would remount to pursue the enemy. Because this is impossible in RTW, it may be worth having a cavalry unit available to the Saxons. These men are nobles, but cannot really be expected to do much fighting from horseback. They should only be used for harrying the flanks or pursuing fleeing enemies.

(Light Cavalry with shields and spears)

Other Ideas:

Scyldburh: The Saxons used two main battle formations – the shield wall was the main defensive one. It consisted of a long line of interlocked shields two or three ranks deep, something like the Testudo but with a long frontage.

Swinwecg: The swine-wedge is an offensive formation that can only really be formed by experienced troops. The leader is usually at the front – the “ordfruma” (point leader). The whole wedge simply charges forwards in an attempt to break through opposing ranks with sheer momentum, before the rest of the warriors widen the gap.

So there you go, don’t know how feasible all of this is, (the formations especially), but there you go – that’s a good Anglo-Saxon army list I reckon. The units are mostly accurate, and where they aren’t wholly accurate in terms of their equipment it’s been done to make them “feel” right – javelins for the Geoguth and not for the Duguth to make them a bit more offensive for instance. In reality most of these units could be equipped with javelins. I’m also busy thinking of some faction specific units. Speaking of which, here’s a quick list of Saxon factions:

Bernicians
Deirans
Angles
Saxons
Jutes
Gewissae (who will become the West Seaxe)

Very good work ! I update the unit list. ~D

But I think they would be only 2 or 3 germanic factions (plus franks and goths) : Angles, Saxons, Juts. There is a lot of differents tribes and kingdoms for each culture, and we got only 21 factions slots... for the moment I have put 19 factions, I don't know if we will keep the Goths in the south of the Loire. As far I know, Bernicians merge later, if possible at a certain date a strong army of Angles will attack Bryneich ~D
Eventually (if possible), we will have others factions as emerging one, if it is allowed in modding.

Otherwise we can put (for example) Gewissae units for the Saxons.

Hi!
I found evidence that Arthur was no king, but a prominent warlord. Mainly from talesins(sp??) poems Here...

EDIT: I was thinking we could use my sig (the bit about arthur) as one of the quotes..its by an anonymous 14th century monk

Well, by saying Arthur was a High-King or the Amherawddyr of the Britons (=Imperator), but this mean the general of all the clans, successor of the romans 'dux bellorum'=warlord, more than one of those local king. I have written an article on who might be Arthur, but it is in french, and my english isn't as good as I can translate it ~D :

http://membres.lycos.fr/paladinceltique/Arthur.htm

Also, it seems that the Book of Taliesin wasn't the work of Taliesin himself : the manuscript is from the XIIth century, and the form of poetry remains from the VIIIth century.

:medievalcheers:

For your sig, no matter ~D Mine does too, and we have a lot of differents quotes we can use !

So what's the start date for this mod, and does it cover all of Europe? I thought it would just be Britain and surrounding islands, which would allow you to do pretty much all of the important British kingdoms.

And yeah, Bernicia is officially founded in 547 by Ida, but his grandfather, Eossa, is mentioned in a number of Arthurian sources under the name Ossa the Knifeman or Osla Bigknife, and Vortigern is supposed to have settled Octha and his mercenary bands somewhere in the north, so it's reasonable to assume that the Angles had been there for some time.

Start date : 480 AD

Game area will be something like this :
http://img162.echo.cx/img162/3163/map49oj.jpg

So Britain, Ireland, and a part of Gaul (including Brittany, very important !).

I got my exams results and I pass in second year of medecine studies, so I will probably lead the project to the end ~D

Don't forgot that we have to complete most part of historical research until this autumn :dizzy2:

Good on u :smile: Good to hear you'll be staying on the mod too.

great job! i knew the french must have been good at sumthing other than getting beaten by the british (joke lol)

Some questions about the Picts.

- There is historical accurency that Picts were divided into 'Northern' and 'Southern', but Northern Picts seemed to have been a very poor nation without a great importance. Gameplay speaking, I don't think it is very interesting to keep 2 Picts factions, for that the Northern Picts will have poor territories and will be beaten by the Southern Picts quickly.
What do you think of that ?

- I am currently reading 'Pictish Warrior' from Osprey Books. Shall we put Pictish with tattoos, and nude warriors for them ? Not all Picts units naked but one or two.

I checked out the picts and it seems historically accurate to only have a southern faction...the south took over the north in 697 check it out here...

and also names for towns.....these are some in roman and some as british


Provincial Capital
LONDINIVM AVGVSTA (London, Greater London)


Roman Coloniae
CAMVLODVNVM (Colchester, Essex)
EBVRACVM (York, Yorkshire)
GLEVVM (Gloucester, Gloucestershire)
LINDVM (Lincoln, Lincolnshire)


British Tribal Cities
CAESAROMAGVS [TRINOVANTVM] (Chelmsford, Essex)
CALLEVA ATREBATVM (Silchester, Hampshire)
CORINIVM DOBVNNORVM (Cirencester, Gloucestershire)
DVRNOVARIA [DVROTRIGVM] (Dorchester, Dorset)
DVROVERNVM CANTIACORVM (Canterbury, Kent)
ISCA DVMNONIORVM (Exeter, Devon)
ISVRIVM BRIGANTVM (Aldborough, North Yorkshire)
MORIDVNVM [DEMETARVM] (Carmarthen, Dyfed)
NOVIOMAGVS REGNORVM (Chichester, West Sussex)
PETVARIA [PARISORVM] (Brough on Humber, Humberside)
RATAE CORIELTAVORVM (Leicester, Leicestershire)
VENTA BELGARVM (Winchester, Hampshire)
VENTA ICENORVM (Caistor St. Edmund, Norfolk)
VENTA SILURUM (Caerwent, Gwent)
VERVLAMIVM [CATVVELLORVM] (St. Albans, Hertfordshire)
VIROCONIVM CORNOVIORVM (Wroxeter, Shropshire)


Roman Spa Towns
AQVAE ARNEMETIAE (Buxton, Derbyshire)
AQVAE SVLIS (Bath, Avon)


Burgi - 4th Century Fortified Towns
BANNAVENTA (Whilton Lodge, Northamptonshire)
BANNOVALVM (Horncastle, Lincolnshire)
CLAVSENTVM (Bitterne, Hampshire)
LETOCETVM (Wall, Staffordshire)
MANDVESSEDVM (Mancetter, Warwickshire)
PENNOCRVCIVM (Water Eaton, Staffordshire)
TRIPONTIVM (Cave's Inn, Warwickshire)
VXACONA (Redhill, Shropshire)
Caistor (Lincolnshire)


Other Towns and Settlements with Latin Names
ABONA (Sea Mills, Avon)
AD PONTEM (East Stoke, Nottinghamshire)
ALABVM (Llandovery, Dyfed)
ARDOTALIA (Melandra Castle, Derbyshire)
ARICONIVM (Weston-under-Penyard, Hereford & Worcester)
BOVIVM (Tilston, Cheshire)
BRANODVNVM (Brancaster, Norfolk)
BRAVONIVM (Leintwardine, Hereford & Worcester)
BREMETENACVM VETERANORVM (Ribchester, Lancashire)
BREMIA (Llanio, Dyfed)
BVRRIVM (Usk, Gwent)
CALACVM (Burrow in Lonsdale, Lancashire)
CALCARIA (Tadcaster, North Yorkshire)
CAMBORITVM (Lackford, Suffolk)
CAMBODVNVM (Slack, West Yorkshire)
CANONIVM (Kelvedon, Essex)
CANOVIVM (Caerhun, Gwynedd)
CATARACTONIVM (Catterick, North Yorkshire)
CAVSENNAE (Ancaster, Lincolnshire)
CICVCIVM (Y Gaer, Powys)
COCCIVM (Wigan, Lancashire)
COMBRETOVIVM (Baylham House, Suffolk)
CONDATE (Northwich, Cheshire)
CROCOCALANA (Brough, Nottinghamshire)
CVNETIO (Mildenhall, Wiltshire)
DANVM (Doncaster, South Yorkshire)
DERVENTIO [CORITANORVM] (Littlechester, Derbyshire)
DERVENTIO [BRIGANTVM] (Malton, North Yorkshire)
DEVA (Chester, Cheshire)
PORTVS DVBRIS (Dover, Kent)
DVROBRIVAE [CANTIACORVM] (Rochester, Kent)
DVROBRIVAE [CATVVELLORVM] (Water Newton, Cambridgeshire)
DVROCOBRIVIS (Dunstable, Bedfordshire)
DVROCORNOVIVM (Wanborough, Wiltshire)
DVROLIPONTE (Cambridge, Cambridgeshire)
DVROVIGVTVM (Godmanchester, Cambridgeshire)
GARIANNVM (Burgh Castle, Norfolk)
GOBANNIVM (Abergavenny, Gwent)
ISCA SILVRVM (Caerleon, Gwent)
LACTODVRVM (Towcester, Northamptonshire)
LAGENTIVM (Castleford, West Yorkshire)
PORTVS LEMANIS (Lympne, Kent)
LEVCARVM (Loughor, West Glamorgan)
LEVCOMAGVS (East Anton, Hampshire)
LEVOBRINTA (Forden Gaer, Powys)
LINDINIS (Ilchester, Somerset)
LVENTINVM (Pumsaint, Dyfed)
LVTVDARVM (Crich, Derbyshire)
MAGIOVINIVM (Dropshort, Buckinghamshire)
MAGLONA (Pennal, Gwynedd)#
MAGNIS (Kenchester, Hereford & Worcester)
MAMVCIVM (Manchester, Greater Manchester)
MARGIDVNVM (Castle Hill, Nottinghamshire)
MEDIOLANVM (Whitchurch, Shropshire)
NAVIO (Brough, Derbyshire)
NIDVM (Neath, West Glamorgan)
NOVIOMAGVS CANTIACORVM (Crayford, Greater London)
OLENACVM (Elslack, North Yorkshire)
PONTES (Staines, Surrey)
REGVLBIVM (Reculver, Kent)
RIGODVNVM (Castleshaw, Greater Manchester)
RVTVNIVM (Harcourt Park, Shropshire)
RVTVPIAE (Richborough, Kent)
SALINAE [DOBVNNORVM] (Droitwich Spa, Hereford & Worcester)
SALINAE [CORNOVIORVM] (Middlewich, Cheshire)
SEGELOCVM (Littleborough, Nottinghamshire)
SEGONTIVM (Caernarfon, Gwynedd)
SORVIODVNVM (Old Sarum, Wiltshire)
SVLLONIACIS (Brockley Hill, Greater London)
VAGNIACIS (Springhead, Kent)
VENONIS (High Cross, Leicestershire)
VERBEIA (Ilkley, West Yorkshire)
VERLVCIO (Sandy Lane, Wiltshire)
VERNEMETVM (Willoughby, Nottinghamshire)
VERTIS (Worcester, Hereford & Worcester)
VINDOCLADIA (Badbury, Dorset)
VIROSIDVM (Brough by Bainbridge, North Yorkshire)


The British Islands
ICTIS (St. Michael's Mount, Cornwall)
MONA (Anglesey/Ynys Môn, Gwynedd)
VECTIS (Isle of Wight, Hampshire)
TANATVS (Thanet, Kent)
MANAU (Isle of Man)

Just wondering how you guys plan on implementing religion in this mod? I guess it all depends on how BI works -- if they allow for Conversion, for example -- but the basic problem as I see it is that the Anglo-Saxons will be pagan at the start and Christian at the end.

As a side note, I'm revisiting making an Arthurian-era mod for VI, using the Viking campaign map because I don't know how to make my own campmaps. Have any of you considered working on a MTW:VI version of this era, or do you know of anyone else who's done so already? If anyone knows how to make a campmap, for example ..... ~D ...

At any rate, it will be interesting. I'll be following your work; best of luck!

CountMRVHS

@Ian : very interesting !!! I will update the list with some names that miss, there you have found all the romans 'civitas'. I will split Domnonia into 2-3 regions, it need to be a strong kingdom (I got some PC problems so I will do it latter).

@CountMRVHS : as far as I have read, BI will features multiple religions, conversions, etc (read the differents previews), it will be something like as it was in MTW.
For an Arthurian mod for VI, see Thrashaholic : he PM me to help us, because he have worked on a such mod ~D

Hey guys listen!
we need to get some work done on this mod, i know the plan was to wait for BI but that is still quite a while away, does anybody know a skinner/moddler? because if we can get some units done more people will join the mod, we may even get our own sub-forum in the hosted mods section, but only if we get some work done, here's what i can do...

I can edit positions, names and areas of provinces

I can do basic Campaign map editing, e.g. making islands bigger or adding a load of land and incorperating it into that province

I can also edit faction names

here's what i can't do

Model, skin, faction banners, loading screens

What can you people do apart from historical info, soz if i sound p****d off it's just we need to get work done or this great mod idea will die...plus i have tests tomorrow in Biology, physics, chemistry and my maths test is on wednesday (for my mock GCSE's)

Interesting link on warfare during Arthurian age : http://www.georgetown.edu/users/kammerb/combat.htm

I have read 'Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars' and 'Pictish Warrior' from Osprey books. I can scan some pictures later (when I got my PC back).
I will order Arthur's Britain (Leslie Alcock) and Age of Arthur (John Morris) later, but reading in a foreign language is tiring ~D

I have all of the above books as well, except for the John Morris one.

Another book I found very interesting is Geoffrey Ashe, The Kings and Queens of Early Britain. There's a significant section on the post-roman period leading up to Arthur, a big section on theories of Arthur himself, and so on into the Anglo-Saxon period.

Ashe's thesis is that Arthur can be best identified with Riothamus, a 5th-century "high king" from Britain who went across the channel into Gaul to give military assistance against the Franks, I believe. That's not the angle you guys are taking, but it's interesting anyway for the period references.

Yeah I know Ashe's work, but for me Riothamus=Ambrosius Aurelianus=Emrys Gwledig, the brother of Uther Pendragon and the uncle of Arthur ~D

We don't have good books like this in french (except those focused on Brittany like 'Origines de la Bretagne' by Léon Fleuriot) so I had to do with the english ones :crown:

Some very nice images from the arthurian era re-enactment group 'Britannia' :

http://www.durolitum.co.uk/images/gallery/parley.jpg

http://www.durolitum.co.uk/images/gallery/cavalry1.jpg

More at http://www.durolitum.co.uk/imageindex.htm

I think we may contact them to work with them ~D
I can do the same with others groups of the Dark Ages, but continental ones (The French 'Foederati' and the Belgian 'II Herculanii').

Pictish Units

Due to a paucity of information about Pictish social organisation, I have used a lot of conjecture here. Many of my unit descriptions are based on soldiers shown on various Pictish carved stones, especially the Aberlemno stone which shows a three line battle formation of swordsmen, pikemen and javelineers (or what may be javelineers). The names are a problem, as sadly reconstructing the lost Pictish language is far beyond my meagre talents.

Schiltron
Drawn from the ranks of freemen, farmers and other common folk, the Pictish schiltron would form a formidable wall of spears on the battlefield. They used long spears, shields slung over their shoulders, but went otherwise unarmoured. They fought in a phalanx, and while not elite professionals can be counted upon to give a good account of themselves.
(Heavy infantry, unarmoured, with round shields slung over their shoulders and long two-handed spears)

Swordsmen
The sons of wealthy freeholders and minor nobles, Pictish swordsmen are fast and skilful. They are not great defensive troops, as they lack armour or large shields, but they are deadly with their bucklers and short swords when used to attack in open order, and especially when closely supported by the spears of the poorer freemen. They can also be used as effective ambushers, being good at hiding and fast runners.
(Light infantry, unarmoured with “H” shaped bucklers, short swords and posher tunics than the above unit.)

Youths
Men too young to fight in the schiltron stand at the back and support their elders with a hail of javelins. They carry shields and can fight with their short spears if pressed, but they are relatively weak and their morale is brittle. They are fast runners though, and make good ambushers.
(Light infantry, unarmoured with round bucklers and a bundle of javelins. Fight in hand to hand with a short spear.)

Axemen
Some freemen fight in less of a tight formation than the schiltron, wielding short Pictish axes and bucklers. They are fierce, but they do not have the morale of professional troops. They are fast, good at hiding, and make excellent raiders. They are not so good at defending themselves or holding a line though.
(Light infantry, unarmoured with “H” shaped bucklers, javelins and “T-Bar” axes.)

Horsemen
Picts were very proud of their horses, though only the rich could afford one, and were excellent cavalrymen. These men form the retinues of the minor nobles and are a versatile force in battle, able to harass the enemy with their javelins before closing in to fight hand to hand.
(Light cavalry, unarmoured with round bucklers, javelins and spears.)


Heavy Horse
Though never shown in Pictish art, it is probable that the kings and mormaers (high nobles) went into battle armoured and heavily armed. These men form the bodyguards of royalty and the rulers of the land, and fight as heavily armoured shock cavalry.
(Heavy cavalry, mailed with round bucklers, javelins and spears or swords.)

Northern Warriors
The northern Picts remained pagan for many years longer than their southern cousins, and may have retained somewhat different traditions. They are usually shown with shorter spears, and it may be that the rought terrain of Caithness and Orkney forbids the use of the formidable schiltron, encouraging these ferocious warriors to use looser formations.
(Light infantry, long fringed robes, square bucklers, javelins and spears.

Huntsmen
The Picts were very fond of hunting, and it is possible that units of huntsmen would have been drawn up and used to ambush important enemies in battle. These men are fast, lightly equipped, superb at hiding in almost any terrain and very accurate. They may have used a form of crossbow, though this would not have been the armour-piercing weapon of the middle ages but an accurate hunting bow.
(Light infantry, hooded mantle, crossbow.)

Other Stuff:
Various other sources can be used to suggest Pictish units, but most are at best somewhat spurious. One stone shows large dogs accompanying armed warriors, but whether they are intended to be “war dogs” or the stone in depicting a hunting expedition is doubtful. Figures wearing animal masks or pelts are also common, though again whether they are mythical figures or represent some kind of cult activity or a special class of warrior is uncertain.

http://www.orkneyjar.com/history/pic.../smallpict.jpg An Orkney Pict, represented in the unit list as the northern warriors

http://www.white-history.com/refutin...ctish_line.jpg From a scummy website, I'm afraid, but the picture shows more northern picts with their characteristioc curled hair and pointy beards.

http://www.pictavia.org/A&S/weapons/media/benvie.jpg Pictish horsemen.

http://www.pictavia.org/A&S/weapons/media/aberk1.jpg The famous Aberlemno stone, depicting the Picts in battle on the left. The three line battle formation in the middle shows the possible "schiltron" formation with swordsmen out in front, pikemen behind and javelin armed men at the back, although the spearman at the rear may be a supporting rank - it's pretty unclear.

http://www.pictarts.demon.co.uk/bin/...s/drosten3.jpg The crossbowman is in the bottom left in the characteristic heavily hooded mantle.

Note that none of the Picts in any of their own representations wear helmets or any form of apparent body armour, but they are NOT naked. I'll see if I can scan in any images from the Osprey Pictish Warriors book as well, though I'll have to find somewhere to host them.

Good job Spongly ! Ranika may post something to comment your unit ideas. When I will got my PC back I will scan some Osprey images.

The Pict 'crossbow' is actually more than likely an arcuballista; it's one of the things they most commonly traded for or looted from dead Romans. Other than that, I don't have too much to say about the list. It looks alright to me. Some Pict military words (though probably corrupted by Gaelic, since Gaelic speaking authors kept them):

Ludo - Possibly related to 'kluddo', this is a sword...possibly
-luma - Suffix meaning 'one who carries'; so, 'Ludoluma' would be 'one who carries a sword'; the plural is -lom, so 'Ludolom' would be 'those who carry swords'...possibly
Gair - Almost surely related to 'gae', a spear
Cho or Tho - Not sure, think it's an axe or cudgel
Marchan - Probably related to Myrcharn or Marc, horsemen
Saoig - From the early Gaelic 'saigh', a bow
-daoer - From the early Gaelic 'deoir', suffix meaning soldiers or warriors; a 'saoigdaoer' would be archers, 'ludodaoer' would be swordsmen, etc.

Mind you, these are all inferences from the best of my understanding of the scant little we know (we've learned more in the past two years, but that's not saying much, considering we still know next to nothing).

I have just update unit lists with those pictish units.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by ian_of_smeg16

Hey guys listen!
we need to get some work done on this mod, i know the plan was to wait for BI but that is still quite a while away, does anybody know a skinner/moddler? because if we can get some units done more people will join the mod, we may even get our own sub-forum in the hosted mods section, but only if we get some work done, here's what i can do...

I can edit positions, names and areas of provinces

I can do basic Campaign map editing, e.g. making islands bigger or adding a load of land and incorperating it into that province

I can also edit faction names

here's what i can't do

Model, skin, faction banners, loading screens

What can you people do apart from historical info, soz if i sound p****d off it's just we need to get work done or this great mod idea will die...plus i have tests tomorrow in Biology, physics, chemistry and my maths test is on wednesday (for my mock GCSE's)

---

Did anybody listen to this or was i just blabbing on to myself, seriosly though does anybody know of a skinner or moddler tht'll help us?

Dark_shadow89 of the Age of Vikings and Fanatics team have scanned some Osprey pictures (from Arthur and the Anglo-Saxon Wars), have a look at the first three pictures (Saxons, Irish and Picts).

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=50622

Another image of this book, present on the frontcover showing a Briton cavalryman with some footmen.

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/osp_...rs/Q5480AL.JPG

http://www.ospreypublishing.com/titl...=Q5480&ser=MAA

Glad to see i'm indirectly helping another mod ;)

Faction discussion :
- I think Wisigoths will not stay a playable faction. In the mod they will have only small territories (see the map), and historically those territories were loose to the Francs quickly. So on the continent they will be two factions, the Britons of Domnonia and the Franks (maybe splitted into differents factions if possible), each faction will own several territories at beginning, but they will be a lot of rebels territories.
- For others germanics faction, would you rather like to keep the actual situation (Angles, Saxons and Juts), or to had more factions (Gaewassae, Bernicians...) or to get ride of the Juts by making them rebels ?

Provinces discussion :
- As you can see we lack a lot of cities for our provinces. We will had others provinces maybe.
- So we need : province ideas, capital suggestions for each provinces (thought we can use 'generic' names like Caer xxx for the Britons, Dun xxx for the Gaels or the suffix -ichean for the Picts).
- I don't know if our provinces for the Saxons are accurate at the beginning of the game.

Unit discussion :
- Unit list is going to be complete, Ranika will translate some names for the Britons units.
- But we need more ideas for unique units for each factions (exemple the Domnonian cavalry for the Domnonians, or the Llydaw Blackshields), we need units for the Franks, and suggestions for mercenaries units.

We need skinners to make our first skins ! Units who will have the 'shieldwall' hability will be build only with BI models but for the moment we can make cavalry, archers, swordmen, axemen...

So if you want to help us by doing some skins (and models of course !) please PM me or answer there.

An interesting thread on the Fall of Rome mod forum :
http://www.stratcommandcenter.com/fo...showtopic=4150

Ideas for mercenary units:

Frisian Pirates
Frankish Mercenaries
Wraeccan (as per the Saxon unit list)
Armorican Cavalry

Dunno about Celtic mercenary types, but I'm pretty sure outlaws, exiles and other nasty sorts would probably have sold their swords to the highest bidder.

As for the Franks, I could probably do a bit of poking about and look into early Frankish armies. Not sure if they were organised along similar lines to early Saxon armies, but I'd imagine they were based around a king and his bodyguard with assorted tribal levies supporting them. Lots of throwing axes and a bit more cavalry than the Saxons.

Nice ~D

We have the Llydaw Cavalry for the Armorican cavalry, it will be a unique unit recruitable by the Britons in Brittany (also the Llydaw's blackshields for infantry).

For the Franks, they may have been more romanised than the Saxons, the Romans used a lot of them to gard the limes as foederati. I know a french re-enactement group named after that 'foederati', featuring late romans soldiers and frankish warriors, may I can ask them to help us ~D

Anyway I'm waiting your suggestions Spongly ;)

Merovingian armies seem to have been organised along similar lines to other Early Germanic armies – the king and his personal retinue, along with the “counts” and their war bands, with a general levy of all the able bodied men to support them. Again I have no idea about names, though I could probably post something on the proto-Germanic mailing list and ask…

King’s Warband: Clovis or any of his sons/brothers would probably command a bodyguard of heavy cavalry, armoured in chainmail with shields, helms, spears and swords. They would actually be able to dismount and fight on foot as well, but as this isn’t possible in RTW they should probably be cavalrymen, if only to differentiate them from the Saxons.

Count’s Warband: Again, like the Saxon units, just lesser versions of the above troops – elite warriors sworn to a powerful nobleman and armed and equipped from his pocket.

Household Troops: Footmen raised and equipped from the pockets of the powerful nobles and kings of the Franks. After they captured Soissons the Franks had access to Roman arms factories and could equip their men better than most Germans. Chainmail, shields, spears, helms and throwing axes. Sturdy heavy infantry.

Foederati: Frankish warriors who have served in the Roman army, equipped in a slightly Roman style. Chainmail, angons, helms, swords and shields. Very good attackers who throw their angons before charging.

Frankish Warriors: Tribal warriors, unarmoured but armed with shields, spears and throwing axes. A fierce barbarian levy, not organised or with great morale, but fairly nasty on the offensive.

Frankish Freemen: Poor tribesmen who have few weapons – perhaps they could be two units, one with bows and one with javelins. Certainly the Franks were hunters and trappers, and could have equipped a fair bundle of bowmen.