All the topics about life, God, life after daeth, souls ... are very important to everyone, I guess. But it is really hard to get relyable information.
What do you think is the way to get trustable information? :help:
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All the topics about life, God, life after daeth, souls ... are very important to everyone, I guess. But it is really hard to get relyable information.
What do you think is the way to get trustable information? :help:
Well, I just ask Him. He's quite open about himself, so you can trust what He says.
Louis,
Well the first 5 obviously. The rest are just stupid (and gah!)
Don't really know where this thread is meant to be going.
Luis,
can you give me his phone number, please? Or maybe he can call me back?
Jokes aside, I think this is really one of the essential questions in life.
It would help if you just explain it a bit.Quote:
Originally Posted by Al Khalifah
What about traditions. What reliable information do you get.
Visions, what is your experience with it?
Why if you talk to him this means you are praying, and if vse versa - everyone thinks you are schisofrenic ( sp? )?Quote:
Originally Posted by Louis de la Ferte Ste Colombe
Hi, Franc, what is the God you are asking about?
It is not easy to get correct information (note that I am not saying true) because of enmity between religious and non-religious, between sects or denominations and across faiths. In addition to that are the many degrees of maturity/understanding of individuals in the different faiths.Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus
The questions you have are more or less directed at religion and should be answered by religion.
The way I got information was going to the different denominations in question and ask. It is however important to verify the answers especially if the answers are opinions of individuals (ref: maturity and understanding). The best way is to get official pamphlets and or official books.
The worst thing you can do is to get information about the Catholics from the Protestants and vise versa. The likelihood of getting incorrect information is quite high.
Go to the source.
That being said it is nearly an impossible task to get a complete overview of one of the topics you mention. Just within Christianity you could spend a lifetime just to compile definitions of God.
[edit]: I didn't notice this was a poll...
I have never experienced the supernatural of religions and hence must rely on what I can read and answers I get to my questions.
The combination of book sources and learned men in the form of scholars and teachers are probably the best way to gather information.
I am God.
I just open the fridge. There it is, as reliable as it can get.
Louis,
Get out of my fridge!Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
:furious3:
~D
Louis,
I think a clear, exhaustive, reliable, non ambiguous and non interpretable definition of god must be given to be able to respond to this question.
Without it it seems that the fridge answer is the only correct and reliable one.
the best source of information on God that we have on this planet is found in the Bible
however i do not agree with lumping the word "tradition" in with that, as this poll has done.
God is probably a woman
I am not an Islam preacher nor do I want to touch so sensitive veins but in one thread, I guess Don Corleone had briefly said that and I'd like to repeat it by explaining it a bit more : Kur'an (Qoran the way you call it) is the absolute words of God written by Qatips immediately after Hz. Muhammed was revealed the phrases of Kur'an. If you may neutrally get interested in thsi subject, you may have a look at it.
However, if you are "memorized" to be religious of a religion - e.g. by your parents . This faith usually collapses by some time in your life. The true fatih thrives in your heart after you deeply think about the God. That is not about "What's the meaning of life?" crap since it does not even worth asking. This is about understanding the life that reveals the path to faith.
So, holy books which are far from being changed, deep thinking and observations are key elements to know more about God, IMO.
But I want to emphasize that there may be arguments between believers and non-believers, as it is already commited. So I request from all friends here to discuss the subject without humiliating each other's beliefs. I am a deep believer and would be pleased to know about the self-rational claims of non-believers, if any.
One quote from a Turkish writer, I guess, about the religion :
"Put religion away where it belongs.. Between you and the God, not elsewhere.."
What do you mean by reliable information? Is it the official version of God you are after or do you want to know the background of the religion? In other words is it the book you are interested in or the sources behind the book.
CBR
I do not discuss the attributes of God nor if there is a God or a Nirwana, or if Christians are right or Muslims.
The question is what are the sources we can use and how reliable are they.
If you say that tradition or holy books are a good source then I agree. However there are many different and they do not all say the same thing.
If there is a God (whatever that is) and is somehow in connection with us then there should be the chance to get at least some information.
I know that in Middle Age there were Christions who chose the mystic way and others who have a more intelectual approach. Even others relied on the authorities.
Even if you do not believe that there is a kind of God, how do you get this point of view?
I am not a woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by Templar Knight
That means you're not God.....Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
Jokes aside. The traditional way of the Holy Books, plus miracles, like a Holy Icon(don't know if it;s the right word) crying......
easy.....
just send me a letter pointing out your doubts and i´ll gladly answer them for you..(hey..it´s not like anyone can prove me wrong anyway ~D )
P.S.-Include in the letter one 100€ bill to ensure speedy reply.
Sorry the Correct answer is Voodoo. If you believe in anything else you are going to burn in the eternal flames of Mount Umbaba-Kwektylon-Vvratu-Mpenu and be prodded in naughty places by the Great Chicken.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
Would you care about giving me my chocolate ice cream back? :furious3:
Louis,
PS: that's how you know God can be vengefull! Chocolate Ice Cream! If that's not reliable information, what is!
So you are responsible for all this ... :furious3:Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
chicken burger and chips from an indian take away in my town - the best ever, especially with salad ~:)
now thats God!
Well you know, I have been busy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Franconicus
I put other because I didn't know you could enter multiple answers. I would say scripture and prayer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
Isn´t that just a disguise for the problem? How do you know Muhammed is a reliable source? How do you know his source was reliable?
Die.
[demonic voice] God is dead, talk to me again in 100 years when I have reached the stage of uberman and self proclaimed 'angel of death' [/demonic voice]
:devil:
damn it! you beat me to it. :cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro
i want a refund!Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
This is an easy question.... the bible one of the best (if not the greatest) books ever made.
Religion is basically uninquirable acceptance. You accept the existence and unity of God without questioning it, and relying every aspect of life (the nature, fate, deeds, the happy hours you have with your beloved ones or the tormenting times in hospital etc.) on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by A.Saturnus
As long as Muhammed's existence as a Godsent prophet was the most recent one, he showed many miracles to prove his prophecy and unlike the others, his words were directly turned into written form, I find him reliable.
I am not implying other religion's being false or something. I only say that Muhammed, Kur'an and Islam have the all to explain about God.
BTW, I am not an "imposed" believer. I can feel Allah's existence myself. That's just personal, nothing to explain.
Social science... ~;)
'Lets play, Is there a God?'
We have evolved a brain capable of self examination and understanding of the environment around us yet we are so afraid that we go to the extreme of creating a way of life to avoid those abilities and pass off all questions to God.
~D A question to all you heathen atheist out there.... Have you ever even read the bible ~;)
We read the old testament in class. Noahs ark, adam and eve, and some Ruth person that's all I remember.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceasar010
Yes I have. Although I would say I fluctuate between Atheist, Agnostic and Christian.
I did, a pretty funny book, good mythology, some solid story... A bit too long on some description, like... who really care how big the temple shall be, or what to sacrifice in which case.Quote:
Originally Posted by ceasar010
New testament is not really as good, it lacks the imaginative power of the Old one... And it's a bit repetitive ~D 4 times the same story, it's worse than CA selling STW 3 times! St John and the apocalyps is good though, and key to understanding many things in Western art
I fail to see how that relate to my fridge though. Not to mention disapearing Chocolate Ice Cream.
Louis,
I read about 50 pages of the bible and then I was suddenly reminded of the Dukes of Hazard and I stopped reading it. ~D
Quote:
Originally Posted by ceasar010
yes.....in fact it´s one of the main reasons i became an atheist.....too many contradictions....too silly a plot ~D
parts of it are pretty good. lots of good action. it get's a little far-fetched at the end though..Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin
....Quote:
Originally Posted by ceasar010
Why is there no option for "drop acid and just ask him"? Man, you people have no room for hippies.
Anyway, I put down other, because if there is a god, how the hell do we know anything about him?
Why does everyone assume that God is a God ? He might be something different...
I kinda assumed there was more than one god... you know, like the Pagan pantheons.
(waits for "BLASPHEMER!!!" comments)
Me and JAG are Gods. We are what we think we are and so we are Gods. Worship us, like you do your other gods and you'll never have to worry about anythign again.
The Bible consists of:
The Old Testament:
https://img215.imageshack.us/img215/...zzzzzzz1lk.jpg
The New Testament:
https://img215.imageshack.us/img215/...zzzzzzz4ub.jpg
HEATHEN *ties up byz and burns him at the steak*
LMAO, Caesar, isn't that a little similar to what they did to Jesus? ~;) ~;) ~;)
What would Jesus do? Would he really burn me on the stake, or would he grab an officer of the law and give me some steak to take home? That is the question.
Physical Science (i.e. Biology, Physics or Chemistry and related sciences) proof is still awaited.
Seeking the Divine is not a task or something on a to-do list. It takes no more and no less than a lifetime, in my opinion. My suggestion to someone who (hypothetically) had asked me how to begin to search for God, would be:
Spend a week on your own in the wilderness. No phone. No human contact. Pray and meditate on the world around you and what it means to you. Consider the sincerity of your search.
Pick up the scriptures and have a read. All of them. As many as you can stomach. The Bhagavad Gita, Bible, Quran, Talmud. Consider their portayal of the creator of the universe, and how humankind relates to the Divine. Consider the conflict between them and examine the historical veracity of their claims, and the integrity of the messages themselves.
Pray and meditate. I don't think God is remote at all, She just needs to be treated with respect and sincerity.
But... I don't think many people have time for any of this kind of thing. After all, we have Playstation 2 now... and microwave burritos.
Case in point then, eh.
I'm not particularly interested in the dogma of organised religion myself, but this doesn't preclude me from having a spiritual life.
Religion and religiosity can be... pretty obnoxious.
Everytime there is something about religion, the non-believers gather and have fun, make jokes of anything related to religion. Only making fun although I requested them to make their claims.
* Put that Karl Marx s*it away from Quran..
Believe it or not us non-believers acount for 60% of the .org.
I should know, I started a thread entitled "Do you believe in God?" and most people were in fact atheist.
I do not care about your beliefs, it's none of my business, nor do you have to about mine. The point is "sense of humor" sometimes sounds annoying. I bet you understand me.
Although sometimes i beleive i am god when i see little kids coming asking me for directions and theres me sending them in the opposite direction of where they need....hmm fun, Anyway i beleive in god, jesus and stuff i dont beleive that there should be a rift between the different christianities, e.g Protestant and Catholic. We all beleive in god and stuff so why the split? I call myself a Christian not a Protestant or A catholic.
BTW Read the book of revelation, its like a sci-fi movie, its great but its also the only book i've read (in the bible) all the way through so i wouldnt know about the others
EDIT: Joke about Religion eh? well i have some fine ones here ~D
(This is not meant to be offencive to any religions, it is only a bit of fun and does not relfect the views of myself or, perhaps, any other person)
1.What is the Ultimate Jewish Dilemma? Free Ham.
2. Why wasnt Jesus born in America? Because God couldnt find 3 wise men and a virgin
and 3. (probably the most contraversial) A rabbi, a minister and a preist were on a cruise with a bunch of kids. Suddenly the ship caught fire and began to sink.
the Rabbi Cried ou "Quick! The kids"
"Fuck the kids!" the minister shouted, heading out the exit.
"Do you think we have time?" Said the priest
Your poll did not accommodate for agnosticism and was a yes/no poll only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
I could point to two other polls that reduce atheism on this board to respectively 40.68% and 30%; the latter being an even more recent poll than yours.
hmm that means there is more then one god, seeing as I am the God of Wisdom. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by JAG
Can I be the god (notice the small "G", I'm hedging my bets!) of Gah?
I believe that each person should find his personal god so in my oppinion he Mind is the place to look. Only through philosoy and meditation... and sex maybe can you reach a level in wich you can claim to have discovered god. Which shape your own god or gods takes is personal.
Main thing is that you shouldnt try and push your own god into other people minds. You can ofcourse show your god to others... like showing the Koran or Bible so someone.
Personally; sexuality and enjoying yourself... thats where my "god" is.
Let's hear some fn wisdom then! ~D ~D ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lazul
you want wisdom!? You Cant Handle The Wisdom!Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
... oh and dont run with knifes. :bow:
God damn it, I was looking for some wisdom and all I got was truism. ~:)
Im sorry, but the day i will meet him.I wont be typing here to tell you guys. :bow:
That’s a pretty broad topic. Is there a particular god you are trying get reliable information about? There is plenty of literature about gods of all kinds but you might have to pick one at a time, as there are definitely conflicting stories.
This question is kind of like “How to get reliable information about Star Trek”. There is lots of information out there but its probably fictions, but reliable. There are 4 decks on a defiant class ship and Jesus did have 12 apostles. Both are true but are they fact or fiction? The difference would be proof. I can prove Star Trek is fiction. But I can t and neither can anyone else, prove there is or isn’t a god. I happen to think there is and it would be nice if there were some reliable information about God. I have a hard time trusting the official “books” because I think they may have been interpreted incorrectly, example: burning bush. Our languages change so often it is sometimes hard to read/translate documents that are hundreds of years old let alone thousands. I cant trust my brother to decipher the instructions to set a VCR how can I trust a zealot of questionable education and motive to translate the word of God. “The righteous will live by faith” plus I don’t want to know too much, I’d like to have a surprise waiting for me on the other side (Captain Kirk is that you?)
Oh boy, I just compared God to Star Trek… That’s not going to look good on my resume when applying for an angle job in the next life. I will probably get reincarnated into a monk for that.
That´s not an answer to my question. The reliability of something may influence whether you believe it, but whether you believe it doesn´t influence reliability.Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
Were Muhammed´s miracles any better than David Copperfield´s? But even if, that would still not make his source reliable. You should consider the possibility that should God tell you something directly, it might still be wrong.
That you feel God´s existence might be reason enough for you, but it is still not a reliable source, even for you. Feelings can be misleading.
Your statements lead you to your words' self-conflict. So may be your thoughts are. So may your "null" feelings about God be wrong although it is only an outcome of your own mind.
That's a paradox based on confusing and stunning statements you are claiming right now.
David Copperfield was an entertainer Muhammed was a Prophet. Please choose your words when directing something towards me. I never accused blamed or humiliated any of you due to your beliefs.
The purpose of showing miracles was intented to knock down the stiff mentalities of the people of that time. As you know human brain and capability evolves continuously. And they simply rejected the discipline Muhammed offered in words. And he was times and times asked to prove that he was a Prophet. They wanted to be convinced to their eyes. That's why.. I bet he was not having fun with tearing the moon apart in two - he had to.
I don't see any self-conflict in Saturnus's post.
Mohammed might have been a prophet but the way he proved that was with miracles, kind of like David Coperfield with magical tricks, but for different reasons of course. No one is humiliating anyone by simply comparing what they both did.
Saturnus makes a great point about feelings being misleading. Many Christians also say they have "Jesus in their hearts" or they "feel the presense". People just say those things, because they are so infatuated by their beliefs.
You should get the point. I see it is way too blurry from your point of view. Comparison of a guy's tricks derived with gadgets and plans with Muhammed's miracles humiliate me. You may be atheist but should be - as a human being - aware of what the sensitive points that should be discriminated from "the subject of discussion" and "I feel funny today" thing are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
You just explained the difference between believers and non-believers. Some can "feel" the presence of God or the Prophets, and some just do not. They can get how one can believe something that dictates, writes a fiction and what's more, is unvisible and unperceivable.
I can really understand the non-believer's way of thought. You may just not get it. But I do. Keeping the "right" or "wrong" things aside - I never tried to judge or make fun of your mentality as you do to believers, and I will not intend it ever - believing is all about the "being another person". We are all different..
P.S. I did not mention these to avoid discussion. I several times sat down and tried to think about how a non-believer may think, how he/she may give meanings to aspects of life. That's why I say "I can understand you".
LeftEyeNine,
Let me help you out getting in a non-believer's shoe (objectively).
You were reading the newspapers today. In it is an article entitled: "God's son parts Red Sea". In it a person, Joe Doe, claims he parted the Red Sea and he is the son of a God. There was no pictures or videos of the event, apparently, just a drawing of the guy parting the Red Sea. Lastly, in the tradition of the Torah, the Bible and the Koran, he's writing a book he calls the New Message (latest teachings from his father).
After, reading this, at that point in time, would you believe this claim? A simple Yes or No answer would suffice.
ps. (keep in mind, you haven't witnessed anything with your own eyes).
LeftEyeNine, it was not my intend to offend you, please accept my apologies if I did. But I do not understand your answer. What is my "self-conflict"? I merely pointed out that a feeling you have cannot be a reliable source of information. I don´t want to belittle such a feeling, I fully understand that it is important to you and that it influences your live. Actually, I find it quite reasonable that you live by it. We all use feelings to let them guide our way in life. But nevertheless, it is not a reliable source of information about something independent from you and that feeling. That feeling may be important for you, but it provides no evidence about the world outside you.
Also, the comparison between Muhammed and Copperfield was not meant to ridicule the Prophet or your believes, though I realize that my wording was a bit hasty. The point is that there is a similarity between those two. Both - if we believe witnesses - have done things that seem to be impossible. In both cases, we can´t be sure how they did it. That their intentions were greatly different is out of the question.
Really, I am perfectly comfortable with what you believe and I don´t want to change it, although I disagree with you. For me, this is not a discussion atheist vs. believer, not even a discussion about God. It is a discussion about what is reliable information.
Religious texts such as the Bible and Koran alone are not a reliable source of information.
By relying on this information alone you will become a victim of circular reasoning:
"The Bible is the word of God because it says so."
It is impossible to argue with somebody who uses circular reasoning. Not because they are right, but because they cannot apply logic.
Any religious text must be supported by observations as well as scientific fact.
For example: Creationism and big bang theory coincide well: God said so, and boom, it happened.
The fall of man coincides with evolution. Adam (Hebrew for mankind) lived in the jungle without awareness of good or evil (like animals, hmm). The fact that they were unaware of good and evil meant that they did not know it was evil to defy god and eat the apple or whatever. Anyway, an event happened (eat an apple or whatever) which created conciousness and the freedom of choice. Wow. Now we could develop away from swinging in the freaking trees. Yay.
First you have to get past the oversized snake that wants to swallow you.Quote:
Originally Posted by meatwad
Wow. You must be having some good nookie. Because the last time I checked, it was just me and the wife gettin the sheets wet. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lazul
I'm afraid I do not follow your point. So you can relate to beign a non-believer and... what? That's where I'm lost. You "feel" the presense of god, but I don't see how that's any different from any other religious person who also "feels" the presense of whoever it is they believe in. If we take that as a fact then there are more then one gods out there that influence whoever the people believe in. You see my logic?Quote:
Originally Posted by LeftEyeNine
Also I don't think you can ridicule my beliefs, seeing as I have none. There's nothing there for anyone to humiliate.
I think Left Eye Nine's statements show exactly what is wrong with all religion. Not to pick on Left Eye, as Christians do the same thing.
The devout just cannot take the criticisms of others. We have the right to say what we want of Islam, Christianity, Judaism, or any other for that matter. Left Eye, you get bothered if someone calls miracles a joke? If you believe in your religion so much, then you should be confident enough to agree to disagree.
MODS: My intent is not to turn the tone here. I am just addressing what I see as a serious infringment on human dignity.
Throughout history, powerful religious leaders have killed, tortured, and generally caused hate and discontent. If we want to say Jesus is a joke, so be it. If we want to say Mohammed is a farse, that is our human right. People actually murder over this. And that is insanity. Look at the sitaution with the director and the Muslim extremist. The director disrespected mohammed so the Muslim killed him. WTF?!
I love God and thank him for the favor he shown my pathetic existence. But that does not mean I am going to show anger if someone like Jag and BP says that they are God. That is because my belief is so unshakeable that it makes no difference what they say.
So relax Left Eye Nine. I have every respect for your right to worship how you see fit. But don't tell others what to say or write. Some of your comments are downright scary. ~:eek:
EDIT: I just wanted to add this. Left Eye, I hope you will take what I say lightly. I am not trying to piss you off. I just want to make a point. Your contributions to this forum have offered a unique and fascinating perspective.
I thought I would also open my little beliefs so anyone could poke fun all they want.
If there is purpose is one single thing, then there is purpose in everything.
The purpose of nerve endings is to feel. Therefore there is a God.
First i would like to answer to the question of this thread.How to get reliable informations about God?In my opinion and limited experience,you cant.I dont mix religion with science.I dont understand what or who God is,or does God have a somekind of plan for us,or does God even care.
But i do believe in him.I think many people think im stupid or weak because i believe in something that i cant even prove to exist.So what?I dont care.To me religion is faith,and faith gives me hope.I want to believe that around us is an entity that has given purpose to our lives.My faith doesnt really follow any religions holy texts.So im a heretic in face of many other people.
I think there are much wisdom in bible,but my belief that everything is meant to be,is against christianity.I think we all have purpose in this world.But i dont understand it,because im not god.Call me stupid if you like,but my faith takes away my fear.And that allows me to be a better person,or even try to be one.If im only imagining all this,its my personal problem.Whether im right or wrong,it wont hurt anyone else. :bow:
Yep. Reliable information is impossible to get about God since it`s a matter about belief. Reliable means it has to be proven scientific and not just a persons opinion.Quote:
Originally Posted by kagemusha
The only right answer is: I am God. You`ll have a hard time proving that I`m not.
~:cheers:
Well said Viking. ~:cheers:Quote:
Originally Posted by Viking
Even though me and lefty eye are of differing religions I agree with him here. Do you want me to start going on about you atheist.......
Who are you addressing, zealot?Quote:
Originally Posted by ceasar010