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http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/Con...=1130810260038
Canada only has one working sub? What the hell does their Army consist of? A hockey team dressed in camo? I didn't realise that the Canadian military was this unfunded. Where are all those tax dollars going too?
Probably towards making it such a nice place.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/4306936.stm
National health care ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Being better then you. Why do we even need a military? War is so boring now a days. I'de rather play counter strike. *yawn*Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Canada actually has one of the best trained armies in the world. If we were to match them man for man in a wargame of some sort, they would easily whip our asses. They just have no reason to go to war- who wants to invade a deep freeze? You would get more out of invading Siberia.
What happens if there is a war?~;)
Eh? in what way?Quote:
Being better then you.
Well, what if there was a WW3? Not all defensive wars are fought in the country it self.Quote:
who wants to invade a deep freeze?
What does problems with their subs have to do with the army?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Armed_Forces
CBR
For a conventional war, Canada could easily gear up into war production and they could provide a significant force within a short time frame. For nuclear war, they have NORAD.Quote:
Originally Posted by mongoose
Do not confuse a lack of a large standing army with a lack of ability to fight. Canada simply doesn't need a large standing military force since they do not engage in the kind of regular activities that we do. In the event of a prolonged conflict, their physical location and their military alliance with the US provides ample time for them to convert to a war footing.
How many times a day do you have to tell yourself in order to actually believe that?~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Byzantine Prince
did you really had to do that devdav
well one must not try to hide the truthQuote:
Originally Posted by The Stranger
btw USA ROCKS
naah it sucks ~:p
Yes, i just can't control myself!!!~DQuote:
Originally Posted by The Stranger
Canada does not need a standing army - but it would use a good navy, to control those endless oceans, especially as Ice protecting them is going to melt.:charge:
Maybe in a game they could beat us but not in actual battle.Remeber most US troops are now battle hardened veterans. Canada couldnt even take on our Marines and stand a chance in a conventional war.Quote:
Canada actually has one of the best trained armies in the world. If we were to match them man for man in a wargame of some sort, they would easily whip our asses. They just have no reason to go to war- who wants to invade a deep freeze?
This is assuming it is a long and drawn out war. If someone were to invade Canada today they would be in deep doo doo. The reason they dont need subs or a large standing army is they have us. Same for most of Europe.Quote:
For a conventional war, Canada could easily gear up into war production and they could provide a significant force within a short time frame
...America could be easily beaten by a united europe
under my command ~D i'm a military genius first class, Clayton Ballantine style
That's the thing though, they wouldn't be in trouble because of the US alliance. This isn't a case of them leeching off of us. Canada was a major partner in Cold War operations and it is essential to US security. They have a tiny population in comparison to ours and couldn't field anywhere near our force even if they wanted to. Why should they be spending extra money on defense when their current contributions to North American defense as a whole are more than sufficient?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Having military just for the sake of having military is a waste of money. They have a very well developed air defense system tied into NORAD and no nation is capable of invading them via naval methods without going through us first. You might as well be asking why we haven't built fall-back defensive trenches in Kansas.
mabey stranger but how likely is that, if there is gonna be a world war it won't be all of europe against the US, it will be more divided and a throwing in of lots, all in all if theres a world war then any outcome is doubtful.
oh and just so you know if there is one i will make sure your country becomes a smoldering crator.
ah i dont lead a country i lead a army of 20000 8 gold chevron peasants eager to rip you apart and burn you city to ashes
I saw this coming.~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
I think this is true. Not that anyone would want to mess with Canada but if they did the US would beat the crap out of them, same goes for our friends in Europe. Say what you want about the US being a nosy, world policing bully, it is not that bad if your friends with the bully, especially when the bully occupies your entire southern boarder. ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
What happened to all the broken ones we sold you?
My problem with this story is that its disgraceful to have your sailors on a malfunctioning sub when its your ONLY working sub. I would think there would be more of an outrage but appearantly not since from the replies to my post show an extreme dislike for the troops of their nation. Those men and women manning the sub are Canadian citizens and deserve better.
Well lets just assume a neutral USA and then please show me what nation has the amphibious capability to successfully invade Canada?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
CBR
The 4 used subs they bought from UK has more or less been a waste of money as they have had lots of problems with them from day one. But I guess the Brits were happy to get rid of them ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
CBR
Give China a few years if their not that powerful yet.Quote:
Well lets just assume a neutral USA and then please show me what nation has the amphibious capability to successfully invade Canada?
Another for my collection of the most ridiculous statements to appear at the org. I doubt you could beat us but even if you could it certainly would not be EASY.Quote:
...America could be easily beaten by a united europe
Wohoo! Denmark has twice as many subs as Canada!
China cant today nor in the near future so, apart from a future (20+ years) hypothetical threat from China, Canada is pretty safe today.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
CBR
If the US and the rest of the world just stood by I have no doubt that China could succesfully invade Canada tommorow.Quote:
China cant today nor in the near future so, apart from a future (20+ years) hypothetical threat from China, Canada is pretty safe today.
No we dont have subs anymore. The last two were taken out of service one year ago.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjakihata
CBR
:stare:Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
It's all about perceived need. The US and Canada may disagree on various issues but neither has come to blows since our (US) disastrous winter assault. Socialist countries can't afford large militaries and Canada has no need for one even if it could afford it.
No chance. I do not doubt that China has the capability to produce sufficient transports and other such equipment if it decided to do so and the rest of the world stood by. However, China currently has no aircraft carrier fleet and, lacking any forward air bases close to Canada, would have essentially no air cover for such an operation. The Canadian Air Force has well over a hundred F-18s and would absolutely ravage any incoming naval force that did could not obtain air superiority.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
Again, no doubt China could do it if they devoted the resources to it, but they couldn't do it tomorrow.
Tsk tsk Gawain you dont know much about the Chinese navy then?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
They would need to be able to ship and supply several divisions to take out the Canadian army. They dont have that capacity right now. Plus the distances involved does not make things easier either.
They would need to protect the ships from the Canadian airforce. That requires carriers which they dont have any of.
The level of technology of their surface ships as well as army is also not on the level of the Canadian navy and army.
I doubt China could invade Taiwan even if USA stayed out.
http://fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ship/row/plan/
CBR
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Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
And a few million angry gun owners. ~;)
And the Liberal Party.Quote:
Originally Posted by yesdachi
All those faulty subs you nasty Brits sold us are now museum pieces. You jerks. ~;) Seriously, though, using something that's broken is a pretty Canadian thing to do. We can handle a malfunctioning boat.
Actually, I remember hearing about a wargame Canada partook in with the US with that very sub, outdated as it is. The sub sank three American ships and escaped undetected. I'll see if I can dig up a link.
Not any more then you have to tell yourself you are winning in Iraq. ~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
You can barely control Iraq, nevermind any part of Europe. I'de like to see the US invade at most one more country in the next 10 years. That'll stretch your army to the point that you will end worse then in Vietnam and Korea combined.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain
:laugh4: That is the best thing I have ever heard. An old, leaky rustbucket managed to "sink" three of our state-of-the-art submarines- and we didn't even catch him!Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonGod
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Originally Posted by Zorba
loool....not so hard it seems....
a few years ago one of our Portuguese submarines participated in an exercise and it actually "sinked" an american aircraft carrier.....~D
and i´m talking about real rustbuckets here....ships built in 1968 or 69 ~:joker: i sure as hell wouldn´t go for a ride on one of them if someone paid me 10000000000$
moral of the story?....technology...smelogy.....anyone can take anyone else out...at least once :knight:
Details on the portuguese subs ...i´ll try to find a link with the actual story of the "incident" ~D
Not submarines. Destroyers, I think. Still looking for a link... ~:handball:Quote:
Originally Posted by Zorba
EDIT: This may or may not be in reference to the same incident of which I was informed.
Clickity click.
Interestingly, old diesel submarines can be harder to detect than modern nuclear submarines. The reason being that a diesal sub can turn off all of its machinery and run completely silently off of batteries. A nuclear sub can never shut off its reactor and as such can never completely eliminate its noise signature.
In some situations low-tech is better.
Interesting paper under the clickity click but not too surprising. Subs, even outdated ones outclass most ships. That’s one of the reasons that other countries with subs are a threat (or at least in the movies~;) ).Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonGod
You have no idea what Canadians are willing to gumble to no end but never take real action about. We put up with Americans don't we, the slightly aggrevating older brother. We still send our fairly new Halifax class frigates out to sea with 1 60's vintage sea king helicoptor. The fact that the air force (the Canadian military has been 1 combined service for like 30 years) keeps those things in the air is a friggin miracle. We spend about 20-30 billion (I forget the exact figure) annually on our military. That translates into 50,000 army troops 2 or 3 groups of fighters and some c-130 tansports and about 50 naval vessels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Lars, the Canadian military hasn't been unified for almost ten years.
Actually, the more civilized a country is, the easier it is to occupy. France was much easier to occupy than Russia during ww2. People are a lot more willing to accept occupation if they actually have something to lose by opposing it.Quote:
You can barely control Iraq, nevermind any part of Europe. I'de like to see the US invade at most one more country in the next 10 years. That'll stretch your army to the point that you will end worse then in Vietnam and Korea combined.
If you had to pick between leaving your comfortable home and all its comforts to go live in the wilderness and fight an unbeatable army, or live in relative peace and prosperity under occupation, chances are a lot of people would choose to complain but not act.
However, if you're dirt poor and dont really have much better to do, the glory of war is a lot more appealing.
Could explain why the US is training vs Swedish diesel subs (with Swedish crew, rented ). Seems to be needed according to what has been mentioned here.Quote:
Originally Posted by TinCow
Gah
From what I understand, diesel subs are excellent for coastal defense. The battery power can keep them going silently, and range is not really an issue when hugging a coastline. Also, if they get sunk on a coastline, you don't have a radioactive mess washing onto your beaches. ~;)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ironside
I think the North Koreans have lots of diesel subs. The US Navy probably needs practice to counter them, since they don't have any of their own.
Who ever told you that was a dirty liar or living under a rock. It's still one service all the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonGod
We sold you those subs in good faith. Shame you didn't check them on delivery......~D
Wow, so much to comment on, and all in one thread! We'll go in reverse order:
Lars, either you're being sarcastic or you don't know what you are talking about.Quote:
Originally Posted by lars573
Canada isn't a socialist country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
Truer words were never spoken, my friend.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devastatin Dave
Now for the fun part:
The only reason why we wouldn't be able to stand up to the Marines is that even by themselves they outnumber the entire Canadian Armed Forces by a large margin. The entirety of our regular (not including reserves and militia) ground combat forces consists of three very understrength regiments of light infantry, and I believe a single regiment of artillery and a single regiment of armor.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gawain of Orkeny
But quite frankly G, a battalion from any of our infantry regiments would kick the everloving snot out of a battalion of Marines every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
When I was with 3PPCLI, a battalion of Marines came up to do an excercise with us and honestly, they didn't know what the hell they were doing. Quite a funny story
Seeing as how it was Marines (as opposed to Army) coming up for the excercise, our CO figured it would be appropriate to do a joint amphibious landing, then do a combined assualt up the side of a big hill. The Marine CO said (this is my favorite part) that he didn't think the amphibious landing was such a good idea, since "a lot of his guys couldn't swim."
"Couldn't swim."
Jesus wept... Isn't this the frickin' Marine Corps we're talking about here?
Anyhow, our CO said that's fine, but can you let us use your landing craft so our guys can do the landing, and your guys can take buses out and just meet us at the beachhead. No problem.
So we do our landing, then wait a little while for the Marines to show up on the cozy, heated (it was a bit of a chilly night) buses we provided. We then form up to do an assault up a big hill, with Canadians in the center and on the right, and the Marines on the left.
So, we begin our attack. Pretty standard, lay down fire support with heavy weapons, and use fire and movement tactics to advance toward the enemy. Except that apparently that's not how Marines do things (or did things, back then anyway). As soon as the shooting started, they got up and charged up the hill in a mad, screaming rush. Which in itself, might not have been that bad. Except they were also veering to the right as they charged, right through all of the Canadian interlocking fields of fire. Even though we were pretty quick to react to this clusterf*** (did I mention this was at night?) and stopped firing, the damage was done and the umpire staff declared a large part of the Marine force killed by friendly fire.
As far as the U.S. forces being battle-hardened veterans now, you are correct G. That would definitely have an impact. But the same can be said of the Canadian troops. There are very few of our reg force infantry troops that have not been involved in real combat operations over the last 15 years.
Having said all that, we also used to go down to Fort Lewis and work with the Rangers quite a bit. Those guys had their crap together pretty good and (for the most part, anyway) could keep up with us during PT. ~D Some of the most fun I ever had was doing live fire jungle lanes that they set up for us.
Goofball,
You were in the PPCLI?
:bow: (Beirut bows in respect.)
Once we get our delivery of F-35 JSFs, new helicopters, and keep up the upgrades on our CF-18s and City Class frigates, we'll be in good shape. Our guys are top notch, they simply need better equipment and more training dollars.
Napoleon said the moral is to the physical as three to one. We've got the moral, so when we get the physical we'll truly be first rate.
Canada, got to love the Maple Syrup.
Australians and Canadian backpackers have already taken over the world!
I hope they take over Thailand soon! That country needs a lot of modernization, especially to stop that dictator-in-democratic-clothes Thaksin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
We're relying on you, Australians! ~D
Back to the issue of Canadian military; I am genuinely interested in Canadian military history. How much, in terms of scale, time, and actions; did the Canadian regiments participate in the two World Wars, for instance? Were they also in Korea during the Korean War?
Edit: Thanks a lot for the link below, Papewaio! :bow:
I didn't know Canadia still had an army...isn't about half of it set to retire in the next five years?
Seriously, 1 on 1 you can't beat us. Mainly because American's are more violent, ravenous, and bloodlust-ey than Canadians are (with the exception of Beirut, of course).
Also, our generals aren't very smart, so yeah.
The US Regular army should be as well trained as the Marines and the Marines as well trained as...well...übermarines.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_history_of_Canada
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Originally Posted by WWI
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Originally Posted by WWII
Bloodlust-ey?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
I vote Liberal, believe in socialized medicine, give money to Greenpeace, support the legalization of marijuana, support gay rights, woman's rights, and oppose the war in Iraq.
I'm as typically Canadian as they come.
As for our military, read the history of places like Vimy Ridge and Ortona. Our boys were first class right across the board.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Papewaio
Pape shame on you! Vermont makes the best syrup!!! Not the most of course, but we do make the best. If global warming continues though Canada will eventually get the best weather for syrup production....~:mecry:
Unfortunately I don't have much to add about Canada's military, except to mention that they don't really seem to need the submarine in the first place....
But...but...but...the axe!Quote:
Originally Posted by Beirut
Its for trees not knees. :knight:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaiser of Arabia
So he is not bloody he is sappy... in a sweet maple syrup kind of way, what a guy [reference to Ace in Red Dwarf] ~D
I'm pretty sure however that axe of his would be just at home giving a vascetomy as chopping down trees. ~:cool: :bow:
The Swedish defence from post-WW2 to about 1995 was quite large. It works if you need it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vladimir
Unfortunately I don't have much to add about Canada's military, except to mention that they don't really seem to need the submarine in the first place....
But they might do , a new international dispute is arising , with the reduction of the ice pack in the arctic and the greater availability and viability of the north west passage to commercial shipping then Denmark , the USA , Russian Federation and Canada might need their naval assets .~D
The best place to start if you're interested in Canadian military history is a book titled Vimy by Pierre Berton. The book is some 300 pages and extraordinarily well written. (It is also an excellent account of the Canadian artillery fire system which was revolutionary and the most sophisticated in the world at the time. If you are interested in the history of artillery, it's a must read.)
It's the story of the Canadian attack on the German high ground positions Vimy Ridge (part of the Third Ypres battles). The French and the British thought the German defences at Vimy impenetrable. We didn't.
A few lines from the book:
Two minutes. Now came the whispered order to fix bayonets. The sound of the loose locking rings, rippling all along the miles of trenches, was like the humming of a thousand quivering bees.
Silence. Thirty thousand men held their breath, tensing their cramped muscles for the moment that some had been awaiting since November.
One more minute ticked by, and then a single gun fired. One second elapsed and the world exploded as the greatest artillery barrage in the history of warfare burst upon the unsuspecting Germans and the battle of Vimy Ridge began.
gah!!!
Used to work with the Canadian Light artillery when they came down to Fort Lewis when I was assigned there. They were always pretty good artillerymen.Quote:
Originally Posted by Goofball
Learned a few tricks from them concerning light howitzers - showed them a few tricks we knew on fire direction - all in all a good exchange of training from two groups of professional soldiers.
Thanks m'man; it's nice to be appreciated. I was with 3rd Battalion (The "Hollywood Third") in Victoria.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beirut
:bow:
Yep, we were in Korea. The second Battalion of the PPCLI (along with some rag-tag Aussies~D ) was awarded the United States Presidential Unit Citation for their actions there. See below:Quote:
Originally Posted by AntiochusIII
Quote:
The battalion kitted out with winter gear and a plethora of weaponry moved 50 miles north to Miryang in order to undergo rigorous training until the 15th of February when they would join the 27th British Commonwealth Brigade at Changhowan-ni. Operations would begin with earnest and throughout March and early April the Patricias would conduct several attacks on Chinese-held features. Hills 419 and 532 fell to the Patricia's in March and the advance continued against sporadic enemy resistance on 900 and 1200 meter features until the Brigade went into reserve near the village of Kapyong on the 18th of April.
The enemy had finally managed to stop the advancing UN forces and, on the night of 22 April, let loose the Spring Offensive to recapture Seoul. Under heavy resistance at the front the 6th Republic of Korea Division broke, and 27 British Commonwealth Brigade was called upon to block the advancing Chinese troops. The 2nd Battalion Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry quickly and efficiently moved their forces onto Hill 677 where they occupied a defensive position. As this was occurring, at the same time, the Australians occupied a defensive position to the east on Hill 504.
The Patricia's and Australians bedded in and awaited the inevitable battle that would commence on the night of the 23rd. The Australians fended off the Chinese attacks for the full day until they were forced to withdraw on the afternoon of the 24th in order to establish a new defensive line. Once the Aussies had fallen back it was left on the shoulders of the 2PPCLI troops to bear the brunt of the Chinese attacks. The Chinese were obviously no match for the skilled and highly trained Canadian troops attacking non-stop for two days with no success. 2 PPCLI was surrounded and low on ammunition, water, and rations but was able fight off the attackers, at one time even bringing artillery fire down on their own positions.
The Chinese plans to attack and recapture Seoul had failed due to the well-trained Canadian and Australian infantry soldiers who never gave up although they were heavily outnumbered. As a result, their efforts were recognized with the award of the United States Presidential Unit Citation, which is proudly worn to this day by the warriors of the 2nd Battalion.
For those who don't know, the PPCLI, Princess Patricia's Canadian Light Infantry, is a famed unit with a long and very distinguished history.
Our boys! ~:cheers:
https://img.photobucket.com/albums/v...sass/ppcli.jpg
When I go to Canada here is what I want
1. I want to see a mountie
2. Some one needs to explian hooser to me~:confused:
3. All of you will so aboot and hoose
4. Get fake ID from Goof and get all the free perscription drugs I want (If there is 1 thing Canada complety pwns America in it is that)
5. See Beirut chop down a tree just by looking at it.
6. Get maple syrup