Why i hate hating religion

Religion, nowadays has formed into two 'gangs'

The first are those who believe, and the other big group are those who dont believe, and without being critical usually make fun of the first group...

It happens the other way of cource, with some crazed zealot condeming atheists to hell...


But recently there have been documentaries and all sorts about atheists who hate religion, and although i can see their point think that it is very unfair...


:stupido:' all wars are caused by religion...'

My answer to that is that in many cases like the middle east, people are using the excuse of faith to justify killing of innocents. People like this are quite bluntly evil, and if there was no religion, would find another excuse, like race, to justify their barbarities...

:stupido: 'without religion the world would be a better place'

Well, that is very debatable. In my opinion, in places like Africa, where there is mass murders of all sorts, religion has sometimes been the only hope for these people. In their poverty, the words of Jesus or any other god bring forth hope that They will live better in another life, and therefore gives hope.

:stupido: 'there is no afterlife you sad fools'

Only one way to find out...never say never

:stupido: 'religion should be banned'

Well, i propose a live and let live policy. I also say this to the 'faithful' who also do not understand a live and let live policy..

I am buddhist,and although i wouldn't call myself a practicing buddhist, beleive it is wrong to criticise one's beleifs

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Originally Posted by Lentonius

Well, I propose a live and let live policy.

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That is the sensible approach, provided that children are allowed by their parents to 'live' as well. They must be taught about the various schools of thought and given the opportunity to think and experiment for themselves without being 'drilled' in one belief or another. We have seen the results of fundamentalist religious schools on the one hand and state-controlled atheist education (Soviet Union, China) on the other, and they are not encouraging.

http://matousmileys.free.fr/bienmal.gif

well,live and let live is good, and also applies to those with religious beliefs.

However, there are many things nowadays in western culture that openly ridicules religion. Having a lighthearted mickey-take i stand by fully but sometimes these anti-religion fests are not light hearted and therefore are then looked on as more insulting than fun...

:stupido:' all wars are caused by religion...'

Its a common reason for war, yes, but if religion isnt there to be used something ells will allways do.

:stupido: 'without religion the world would be a better place'

Anoying statement since religion cannot go away, its a part of the human race and will allways be in one form or another.

:stupido: 'there is no afterlife you sad fools'

Impossible to tell.

:stupido: 'religion should be banned'

Impossible.

Everyone deserves the god, he is believing in!

Just to get a little philosophic...

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Originally Posted by Lazul

:stupido: 'there is no afterlife you sad fools'

Impossible to tell.

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Schmurfs don't exist

Impossible to tell.

by what i said i meant the only way to see if there is an afterlife is if you die and see it, or not as the case may be

crap. not another polarized religion thread. maybe we need a virtual "door" so everyone can just nail their proclamations up and be done with it.

I hate their freedom!
no wait

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Originally Posted by Lentonius

However, there are many things nowadays in western culture that openly ridicules religion.

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Nah, that was mainly in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries when religious institutions were powerful and had to be tackled, ridiculed and castrated to make room for healthier views of power, sexuality, etcetera. Today institutionalised religion has become largely irrelevant. Nobody cares about the 'position' of the churches on any subject. Religion has become a market niche and New Age has filled out most of that.

People who reflect on their beliefs or 'sacred' texts intelligently and with a sense of historic relativity have my undivided attention, but let's not be fooled by appearances. It has become practically impossible these days to 'cite' traditional, complex religious texts or themes in books, movies or commercials without being met with incomprehension on the part of the general public. Most modern-day believers dabble in all sorts of creeds and rituals, they stray this way and that and rarely reach a profound knowledge of what they are talking about. They don't fear or love God. They seek 'spirituality' as a hobby or as a thrill, in the same way that they go bungy-jumping, book adventure holidays or take belly-dancing lessons.

I like your occupation, 'seraching for the meaning of life'. It is very funny. You picked the one thing no sensible philosopher can ever ask. Very well.

So there are people with different opinions out there. This is coming as quite a shock to me. I bet 100 dollars this is going to be another banal, 'smurfs exist!', 'old testament says that', 'that jesus sure knew how to live', discussion, that is killing the backroom by inches. Thank you for contributing.

Jesus was a socialist smurf anyway. :book:

your right Lentonius, there are many people (Philip Pullman, Richard Dawkins etc...) who seek to destroy religion, and for what reason?

one day maybee we will just accept each others beliefs!
~:grouphug:

Perhaps BP is right, all these discusions about religion are getting nowhere, to be able to refute something, you have to have a real go at believing it first, something both sides of this argument don't do enough

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Originally Posted by solypsist

crap. not another polarized religion thread. maybe we need a virtual "door" so everyone can just nail their proclamations up and be done with it.

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Nice analogy, I suppose the Internet is to the Printing Press as well... another scientific invention used so more people can pontificate about religion.

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Originally Posted by Lentonius

:stupido:' all wars are caused by religion...'
:stupido: 'without religion the world would be a better place'
:stupido: 'there is no afterlife you sad fools'
:stupido: 'religion should be banned'

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3 untestable (or nearly so) claims and the resulting conclusion. Well, I'm convinced. :dizzy2:

Ajax

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Originally Posted by solypsist

crap. not another polarized religion thread. maybe we need a virtual "door" so everyone can just nail their proclamations up and be done with it.

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:laugh4:

Okay, Soly, you rarely make me laugh -- but this is a fun little reference.

:laugh4:

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Originally Posted by solypsist

crap. not another polarized religion thread. maybe we need a virtual "door" so everyone can just nail their proclamations up and be done with it.

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:horn:

:charge:

To the Watchtower!

:gossip:

:stupido:

:deal:

:deal2:

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

your right Lentonius, there are many people (Philip Pullman, Richard Dawkins etc...) who seek to destroy religion, and for what reason?

one day maybee we will just accept each others beliefs!
~:grouphug:

Perhaps BP is right, all these discusions about religion are getting nowhere, to be able to refute something, you have to have a real go at believing it first, something both sides of this argument don't do enough

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I can live and let live.

However I do not agree that a system should be accepted just because someone has tacked on the word religion.

Too many encounters with New Agers confusing metaphysics with physics for starters and then crystal healing with geology for another. :dizzy2:

Belief systems should be tested. Those that fail, often squeal about the fact that they have been tested. They don't consider that they may have learned something in the process of testing, nor do they consider that the break may point to a better understanding. :wall:

Rules are made to be broken. :2thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Rules are made to be broken. :2thumbsup:

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Does that include the forum rules? ~;p

Ajax

You can break them and see what you learn in the process... Is their a moderator? Well you will get positive proof pretty quick. :sweatdrop:

entrapment!



... best thing about this thread is the word "schmurf".

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Originally Posted by Papewaio

Belief systems should be tested. Those that fail, often squeal about the fact that they have been tested. They don't consider that they may have learned something in the process of testing, nor do they consider that the break may point to a better understanding. :wall:

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of course, i agree!
thats why i suggested i method of testing, ''have a go at believing it first'' that is the best way to test anything.

I challenge some of the athisits who wish to test christianity, to attend an alpha course for a few weeks at your local church and talk with the people there about religion. I used to have many doubts, although i had never ceased being a christian i tested my faith and all of the arugments i could find against god fell to pieces! try it!

Or not! It is, after all, an individual choice.

"I used to have many doubts, although i had never ceased being a christian i tested my faith and all of the arugments i could find against god fell to pieces! try it!"

??? Can you explain why you think it fell to pieces? Otherwise, I think that it sounds like you went off to a 2 week brainwashing session~;)

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Originally Posted by Meneldil

Jesus was a socialist smurf anyway. :book:

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Yeah, and Leonardo just doodled a bit, Voltaire only vented his anger over his syphilis and Jimi Hendrix couldn't really play the guiter, could he? Bunch of con-artists.

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

Yeah, and Leonardo just doodled a bit, Voltaire only vented his anger over his syphilis and Jimi Hendrix couldn't really play the guiter, could he? Bunch of con-artists.

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finally somone gets it. but i do bash religion cause it is foolish, humans are the only animals in the world who know that we will one day die and be gone forever, so in a futile attempt to give reason to our short lives and quick deaths we invented (da da daaaa) religion. i don't really ridicule religions ane call them completely false (i like to keep an open mind and listen to religios stuff) but it seems all to elaborate. i can understand that there may be some great divine force over our universe, but it is my belife that he may have created the spark of life and that it was threw evolution and nature and turmoil that we we were born, not some intelligent plan.

so next time don't bash the catholics, or lutherans, muslims or jews...BASH ME AND MY KOOKY RELIGION:inquisitive: :laugh4: :dizzy2:

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Originally Posted by AdrianII

That is the sensible approach, provided that children are allowed by their parents to 'live' as well. They must be taught about the various schools of thought and given the opportunity to think and experiment for themselves without being 'drilled' in one belief or another. We have seen the results of fundamentalist religious schools on the one hand and state-controlled atheist education (Soviet Union, China) on the other, and they are not encouraging.

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And boy, those McGuffy readers in the US sure did screw up those generations didn't they? Installing ethics of hard-work, respect for authority and a sense of where we come from. I'm so happy they're banned! Along with Puritans being lampooned everywhere. This country is in so much better shape now that no morals are taught and a whisper of religion draws the ACLU like great-whites after blood.

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finally somone gets it. but i do bash religion cause it is foolish, humans are the only animals in the world who know that we will one day die and be gone forever, so in a futile attempt to give reason to our short lives and quick deaths we invented (da da daaaa) religion. i don't really ridicule religions ane call them completely false (i like to keep an open mind and listen to religios [sic] stuff) but it seems all to elaborate. i can understand that there may be some great divine force over our universe, but it is my belife [sic] that he may have created the spark of life and that it was threw evolution and nature and turmoil that we we were born, not some intelligent plan.

so next time don't bash the catholics, or lutherans, muslims or jews...BASH ME AND MY KOOKY RELIGION

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You bash religion because it is foolish. Because it entertains you. Is it just me or is that pathetic?

Azi

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Originally Posted by Azi Tohak

And boy, those McGuffy readers in the US sure did screw up those generations didn't they? Installing ethics of hard-work, respect for authority and a sense of where we come from. I'm so happy they're banned!

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Who or what is banned? You mean the famous 1836 school book on reading and writing?

Which, by the way, is spelled 'McGuffey'? ~:)

And are you sure you are responding to my post? :mellow:

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Originally Posted by Mongoose

"I used to have many doubts, although i had never ceased being a christian i tested my faith and all of the arugments i could find against god fell to pieces! try it!"

??? Can you explain why you think it fell to pieces? Otherwise, I think that it sounds like you went off to a 2 week brainwashing session~;)

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well, i hadn't quite understood what god meant up to then, there was a lot i didn't know or understand about religion. I can assure you i wasn't brainwashed! i still hold different beliefs then the others at the alpha group have and still argue with some of what they said. However the experience was very benificial, even though i did not join their church (they didn't mind if i did or not) due to time constraints.

I think if believers can keep their faith to themselves all this bashing/hating wouldn't have happened. I got this "leave me alone, I leave you alone" policy. Believers always break it. The dissapointment in non-believers has thickened so now they attack in any given moment.

I was a believer once (I still am. I just threw out most things except the god part). I knew I didn't have to make other people do what I do to secure my position in heaven. It seems hard for most believers to realize that.

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Originally Posted by Weebeast

I think if believers can keep their faith to themselves all this bashing/hating wouldn't have happened. I got this "leave me alone, I leave you alone" policy. Believers always break it. The dissapointment in non-believers has thickened so now they attack in any given moment.

I was a believer once (I still am. I just threw out most things except the god part). I knew I didn't have to make other people do what I do to secure my position in heaven. It seems hard for most believers to realize that.

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Yeah, but all believers get grouped together with the few who think that you can forcebly convert someone.

The fact is the athists i have met who have tryed to argue against me start talking about god first, its not me that starts it!

Also many who do convert others (not forcebly though only if someone is interested in converting) are not doing it to increase their standing with god but because they want to share the happyness that god has brought them.

Isn't that the whole idea after all that we are all forgiven, all we need to do is accept that forgivness

I'm not talking about how religious people invite me to their special place in god's arm. I was actually talking about how religious people always tell me what to do and keep me away from the stuff that's viewed as wrong in their eye. You may not be one of them, but it's clear that the tolerance that you magnify isn't what I get from religious people in general. I appreciate that they wanna share happiness with me. There's fine line between sharing hapiness and being a ridiculously intolerant bigot. Considering all these religions are just 'faiths,' it angers people even more.

This is how the 'hate' originated.

yeah, what i was trying to get across is also steryotypes

there are bigots, faithful or not, but when someone like myself who is very tolerant of anybody ond anyone really, it is annoying when then people steryotype religious people as stupid and naive, and i feel that nowadays being openly religious in my country is looked on as very odd and stupid in many parts

of cource you get non religious people having bibles shoved up their backsides and being pushed to be religious, and looking at it, nowadays is the opposite of the ancient times, but it applies to homosexuality, anything people should tolerate to a fair degree...

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Originally Posted by Byzantine Mercenary

The fact is the athists i have met who have tryed to argue against me start talking about god first, its not me that starts it!

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Christian friends of mine have similar experiences. Over at Sp!ked, Frank Furedi has another smart little essay in which he blames this obsessive religion-bashing on the lack of inner conviction of the critics themselves.

He also addresses some of the subtler points I touched on in my post, such as the increasing institutional and cultural irrelevance of Christianity. On the subject of the Chronicles of Narnia movie, he writes:

It is a sign of the times that even some of the people associated with the making of The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe self-consciously deny that the film has a Christian agenda. 'We believe we have not made a religious movie', said Dennis Rice, Disney's senior vice president of publicity.

The attempts to dissociate the film from any explicit Christian project are not only motivated by commercial thinking. Despite the claims of the anti-religious crusaders - especially in the US - that the Christian right is on the rise, in fact in cultural terms it is increasingly marginalised. Films with a Christian message find it difficult to convey a powerful sense of faith and meaning. Instead, religious values and beliefs tend to be transmitted through non-human anthropomorphic forms.

The attempt to endow even the behaviour of penguins with transcendental meaning - in the widely acclaimed March of the Penguins - is symptomatic of this theological illiteracy. The enthusiasm with which Christian organisations embraced March of the Penguins showed up their disorientation, if not desperation, rather than their aggressive confidence. After the penguin it is the turn of another animal - Aslan, the lion in the Narnia film - to serve as a symbol of innocence, sacrifice and resurrection. What beast will Christian filmmakers pick next?

Link

CS Lewis was a great man and a staunch Athist during his early adult life, his conversion is interesting to me because he didn't want to be a christian but suddenly realised that there was a god. It is partly his experiences that make me wonder whether some of the current stuanch athists are fighting something other then some of the problems with organised religion.

Im sorry the christians that you have met are trying to control you, the fact is that this not what Jesus wanted us to do, as we all have logs in our eyes...