Or is it a secret?
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Or is it a secret?
why do they need to be replaced? i think its fun to have a faction in the middle of nowhere...
Well, we´ve tried that "nowhere". Couldn´t we try out in the middle of "nowhere Sahara" next. I´m serious. I´d love to take charge of a highly mobile and deadly fast Bedouin cav/ camel army and raid the hell out of the Ptolemies and Carthagininans, wouldn´t you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xarkdon
true, but I dont know anything about the Yuezhi I am mainly curious why they are being taken out.
I don't know if they are- but there is another thread on which the conclusion seems to be that they weren't present in our time period. And I think one of the dev team said that they're out- but I'm not sure. Who do you think should replace them if that is the case?
There are very few surprises left in EB - this may be one of them, the identity of who replace the Yuezhi.
I vote for the Hasmoneans/Judeans. Totally the wrong time I know- didn't Judah Maccabbee (sp?) kick Seleucid butt around 160 BC? But still I think a small but strong faction between the Seleucids and the Ptolemies would be interesting. Phalanx vs. Phalanx can be pretty dull sometimes. Though I have no idea what kind of units a Judean faction would have- probbably Phalanx. Maybe Zealots. Lots of light infantry skirmishers anyways.
Too bad they were usually controlled by one or the other successor state. Not only were they at a crossroads, but they apparently made pretty darn good soldiers. Not sure who I would suggest instead though...how about the Galatians!!! I could even help with research for them.
Speaking of things that are presently hidden, any chance we'll see any previews of new skins any time before the next patch arrives?
the Aztecs.
Yes ~D I'm sure you guys will all really like the variety they add though ~;)Quote:
So who's gonna replace the Yuezhi?
Or is it a secret?
Quote:
Though I have no idea what kind of units a Judean faction would have- probbably Phalanx. Maybe Zealots. Lots of light infantry skirmishers anyways.
Unfortunately the Jews were firmly under the control of the Ptolemies or the Seleukids at any given time, but our Ptolemaic faction had them under-represented. I've amended the "Ioudeaoi Taxeis" unit's description to better reflect the great later importance of Jews in the Ptolemaic administration. In 175, Onias IV had been deposed as High Priest by the Seleukids, leading his son Onias III to lead a fairly substantial group of Judeans into Ptolemaic Egypt, where Ptolemy VI Philometor allowed them to settle in Leontopolis, in the Fayyum (Krokodilopolis in particular), and even in Alexandreia (in which they actually self-administered a private section of the city). He and an aide, Dositheos, were actually given extremely high positions in the Ptolemaic government; Josephus even claims that they were charged with the administration of the entire kingdom and it's army... even Onias two sons, Ananias and Chalkias had military commands. So, the new unit description will hopefully reflect some of this influence.Quote:
Too bad they were usually controlled by one or the other successor state. Not only were they at a crossroads, but they apparently made pretty darn good soldiers.
I'm also editing the Hebrew ethnicity the Ptolemies have access to, and I'm hoping I'll be able to tie it to a reform, so that it can become more common later on. It'll also eventually have a lot of associative traits, relating to what the Greeks called the 'Cult of Yahweh' ~D
Man you ruined my good joke of the day.Quote:
Originally Posted by Big_John
Oh well.
it's one of the few things i'm good at. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by fallen851
It'd be fun playing as the Bedouins(sp?) or perhaps another successor state, or Ethiopia... but the Bedouins would be a good pick as they'd occupy that large area in the Middle East known as the Arabian Peninsula, where there are no factions, and no factions rarely go there until they've gained better ground elsewhere.
ONe could make a case for a Hellenic Cimmerian Bosporus faction between the Black Sea and the Caspian- the Spartocid Dynasty lasted until 110 BC- Paerisades II would be the faction leader at the time of EB ( I think). The kingdom would run from Tanais to Panticapaion. The dynasty suppopsedly came fom Thrace, had close ties to Athens with a lucrative trade in grain. There would be a very interesting mix of unit types- some Hellenic, some nomadic, some thracian. That'd be more interesting to me than far-away nomads, anyways, but de gustibus non est disputandum.
My guess is that the new faction is going to be in the same general area as the Sweboz, to provide some competition.
It's also possible that after the BI port, the Yuezhi will be an emerging faction. Just guesswork, but it would be a shame to lose them alltogether IMO.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kralizec
I am agree with you.
Another option could be an Ireland faction or a Numidian one.
Time to time :2thumbsup:
Sparta would be nice
Hmm, seems to be three areas for the candidate: africa, arabia and central Europe unless they mess things up with yet another "Greek" faction. Has anyone considered an Iberian split? If I remember correctly there are some candidates.
Sabeans were discussed some tige ago, I think that they will replace the Yuehzhi and prevent Arabia from being a Ptolemaioi/Seleucid stronghold.
I raised the possibility of Iberia in another thread and I think it would be cool, but probably a lot of extra work for the team. Besides, wouldn't the unit roster be nigh identical to the existing Iberians anyway?Quote:
Originally Posted by PseRamesses
I have been following all the threads on this topic and seems pretty set that the Sabeans are probably going to be the new faction. There are no other Germanic factions that would even come close to the influence and power necessary to challenge the Sweboz and except for the Greek fanatics, everyone else is tired of Hellenic factions. I mean, they already added Epiros for variation. It seems the Numidians are out because they just weren't powerful enough and weren't very well organized. The Sabeans seem just about right as they had quite a bit of influence over trade in the region and will fill a nice gap in the map. I could be wrong, but I think that is who will be there.
If you really want to play the Yuezhi, go check out the late period project and help them. The yuezhi will definitely be in that one and even more dominant.
It would be great if The Sabaeans were included. I second that vote.:2thumbsup:
What about the Sakae (Scythians) in the east, or the Lugii in Europe (a kind of Germano-Celtic mix)?
And what's wrong with more Hellenistic factions, anyway? There's at least 2 or 3 possibilities, there. There's the Belgae, too.
Problem with an Irish faction is that it never realy existed, Ireland at the time was always split into 4-5 or more smaller kingdoms.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ergion
Probably true- but there aint't a hell of a lot of info about the political groups in Ireland ca. 272 BC. Irish written sources only go back to 5th century AD.
I'd love Pergamon to be in, but with the faction limit and the fact that there already so many Hellenic factions I don't think it's justified.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malrubius
Besides, woudln't that cause problems with culture grouping?
I think the Lugii are a pretty good idea...
I vote for the Sabeans. The seleucids shouldn't end up in the arabian peninsula every time their empire starts to crumble. Plus it would add camels and other nice variation to an area otherwise heavily filled with hellen styled armies. Will certainly make my future planned seleucid campaign more interesting...
The only potential appearance of camels in EB are as a Nabataean AoR. Of course, I wont confirm or deny all this wild speculation ~;)Quote:
Plus it would add camels and other nice variation to an area otherwise heavily filled with hellen styled armies. Will certainly make my future planned seleucid campaign more interesting...
Good, its a bit early for camel use.Quote:
Originally Posted by VandalCarthage
I wasn't even very concerned about camels. I just want to play an army in the middle east, that is light, highly mobile force, good for making quick attacks and then retreating... I guess the Pahlava are pretty good at that...but I want to harass the Seleucids and Ptolemids from the Arabian Peninsula.
Sign me up for that campaign Wakizashi! :2thumbsup:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wakizashi
There was a lot of discussion in this topic: basically, the argument runs that the Yeuzhi most likely were not on the EB campaign map (although this is debatable) and even if they were, they were far more concerned with their enemies in the east than with expanding to the west. They did eventually turn west, and conquered Bactria, but only after having been defeated in the east. To properly represent their situation, the map has to be expanded to include China and their other Eastern enemies.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xarkdon
Sparta on it's own doesn't stand a chance. It is not the power it used, not by a long shot. The only way the Macedonians are going to find a strong challenge in conquering Greece is to place an Hellenic union on their path.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardL
Personally, I think another German faction might be nice, or else another African or Arabian faction. As it is, these areas are conquered a bit too rapidly.
What is the criteria for faction picking?
I mean I personally would like to have some way to make more Caledonian armies appear, so that it could really hit home just exactly why the Romans built Hadrians wall.
but by making them their own faction youd ultimatly be saying "this group of people could take over the world" and of course as we all know the people from that area of the world eventually do go on to take over the world after they mixed with the Irish "scotti" but thats besides the point.
The point is how much do we really know about the Caledonions? they were iron poor, didn't have much in the way of armor because of this, kind of like the Germanic tribes, but once again, despite this fact the Germanic tribes do go on to do really great things.
I guess from a gameplay point of view it would have to be a historical group of people that could produce heavy infantry or cavalry decent buildings and ultimatly be capable of taking over vast amounts of land or possibly even the entire known world.
what about the mauryans?(sp?)
Khelvan answered this question some time ago when defending the inclusion of the Casse (link):Quote:
Originally Posted by the_handsome_viking
This answers Jerby's question as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Khelvan
Thanks a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludens
It's not going to be the Aztecs for a very good reason(other then they lived on the other side of the world).They didn't exist in 270 bc.They started in the 13th centrury A.D. but not in 270 bc.But the mayans lived in 1000 bc~DQuote:
Originally Posted by Big_John
Could you put these faction in the mod:
The Indus valley civiltion
the aliens that built stone henge(please put them in they had a great impact on the history of the roman impire)~D
Samnium
Cantabri
Arverni
Sequani
Suebi
Belgae
Helvetii
Parisii
Are you aware of the existance of the faction-limit? The game cannot accomodate more than 21 factions, despite the efforts of many modders.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
So were just some possible suggestion.I wasn't suggesting for them all being put int he game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludens
Ah, I see. Well, part of your list is already implemented (silly me didn't even review it properly :embarassed: ). Both Suebi (Sweboz) and Averni are in the mod; Cantabri are IIRC part of the Iberian coalition; and the Parisii fall under either Aedui or Averni alliance. The Samnites were subject to Rome in the mod's time frame, though they did manage one major uprising.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
The three remaining tribes are in an area that is already very very crowded (and many people feel there already are a bit too many Celtic factions). Off course, if you can provide arguments why these should be represented as factions, I think the EB team would be very interested. After all, the Belgae were seriously considered as an alternative to the Casse.
ooooh it would be cool if there would be an Indian civilization
Imagine.. thousands of not as strong soldiers and hundreded of horses, chariots and Elehpants... that would be quite the faction
You could just insert a small bit of the Mauryans, but still it would chnage the game nicely
As Scott mentioned, Samnium would be great faction to replace Yuezhi. What I know about them ( what really is not so much) they seem to have inresting troops, history and big role to Roman, and Greek world. :book:
For the 100th time, no Mauryans in EB, too much of their empire is off the map.
The Samnites are a conquered subject people of the romans by 272.
Hehe, good thing EB isn't controlled by whims of the masses. ~;)
That is true, I myself am one of those :saint:Quote:
Originally Posted by LordElrond
But remember not all of us are historian professors, like myself I enjoy history. Stuff I know about ancient times are based to my school education, many tv documents (what gives only basics of show's current subject), and few "light" history books. I would consider myself as amateur historian, with knowledge of most basics but if you ask anything that goes beyond surface such as how some armies fought, diplomacy or even some basics I am not too familiar, I quickly put my finger to my mouth and try to evade question :laugh4:
Well... I have always liked history, no matter what period. I only wish that many great books that inrest me will be translated to my language :book:
Thanks for EB team correcting me and other people. As EB members have shown, misunderstoods in history, corrections etc. can be done politely without mocking person who was wrong. Thanks again for mod, and of course for educating me :2thumbsup:
If you'd like to read more on the Samnite wars Livy records the narrative (although the accuracy of his narrative is always in question). You can access it online here: http://www.perseus.tufts.edu/cgi-bin...ayout=;loc=4.6
Books 8 through 10.
Arverni are already in, the Sequani are their subjects. Suebi are the Sweboz. The Belgae were seriously considered but not taken. The Helveti were subjects of Noricum who later migrated (they'd not actually be indepedent at the outset of EB, they'd be part of Noricum), so Noricum would be possible, but was incredibly tiny, though they would have some neat stuff. The Parisi were subjects of the Aedui in Gaul, and the British Parisi were tiny and severely overshadowed by the Brigantes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott
Totally agree with that. IMO there´s three areas that neds balancing: Arabia, Africa and central/ eastern Europe. Earlier there has been some serious discussions to include the Sabaeans in Arabia. Personally I miss the Numidians but no comeback for them seems to be emminent and to my knowledge there was no uniform tribe in and around Bohemia or eastern Europe that deserves representation. This is why my vote goes to the Sabaeans.Quote:
Originally Posted by QwertyMIDX
I think EB already has a faction in mind themselves, they think its fun to watch us run around flailing in the dark as they plot their next move to make fans even more anxious/desperate for the newer versions of the game. Lord Khelvan controls it all.... blame him. :laugh4:
(Or thank him, as you see fit.) :bow:
Actually, our decision was very democratic. We even had a second vote with just the two finalists from the first. I was very proud to be an EBerican, exercising my right to vote.
In any case, you guys needn't rule out the possibility that one of the factions you've been talking about here isn't the one we decided ~:cheers: Speculation is good! Makes it seem more exciting when you do find out ~D
I third Sabaeans.
Bithynia + Galatia? I don't know if the link there was all that strong by 272, but that could be very cool. Or do you think you would also need to include Pergamon to be able to represent that situation well?
Kyrenaika? Help break up N. Africa, and would have the same slow-down effect toward the Ptolemies as including Sabaeans. Then again, were the Yuezhi barbarian culture in the ob? I suppose that wouldn't work too well for Kyrenaika.
Yuezhi were the same culture as Parthia and Sarmatians (Eastern).
I like the Sabean idea...
they'd be a nice buffer against expansion into the southeast, a real faction instead of individual rebel towns that you can pick off at your leisure. I think that area of the map empties out a bit anyway
If EB had a massive vote in their lil HQ It ought to have been exciting...so any people, with so many, many different interests....can we at least hear who didn't make it? or some occultus or something?
I hope to see some sort of Fantasy Faction, EB would put every fantasy unit from vanilla to same faction. Think about it really. Your army charges at Roman first line of Hastati with screaming women, flanking with flaming pigs and bringing last wave of war dogs to crush enemy lines. :laugh4:
You, you..... trickster! :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragabash
My infiltrators in the EB team have revealed that the new faction will be the secretumQuote:
Originally Posted by jerby
...located in the obscure province of Terra Incognita!Quote:
Originally Posted by LegioXXXUlpiaVictrix
Led by master of universe, HypnotoadQuote:
Originally Posted by PseRamesses
Hail Toad, hail Toad!Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragabash
For some reason I am imagining giant toad-mounted zamburak... :/Quote:
Originally Posted by PseRamesses
Pirates (As sub slavs faction)
;)
I'm Spartacus!!!
No, I'm Spartacus
everybody is Spartacus, okay?Quote:
Originally Posted by jebes
Now please let us not go to far with the spamming, will we?
I wouldn't mind seeing the Samnites as a faction in Italy but it would be outside the starting time of the mod as they were finally beaten some time around 290 B.C.I reckon it could be pre-Islamic Arabs or even the Saka or Sakae who were still giving the Parthians trouble in later years.
I'm gonna bet on an Arabian faction.
1: Yuezhi have eastern culture
2: I remember an EB team member, I think Khevlan, saying they were going to do something with the Arabian peninsula
3: Arabia is just really, really open
its going to bet its the sabeans, or maybe the belgae?
or sakae, massagetae, numidians,nabataens,
i really cant think of anyone else than that.....
I think the Sabaeans would be the best choice for a faction. They fill a vacant quarter of the map, and would prevent the Seleucids and Ptolemies from rolling over Arabia too easily.
Belgae, Nabateans, Numidians, none of them were unified or powerful enough in the 270s BC to be of any consequence. Adding them would be doing the same as adding the Yuezhi: putting a faction in place where there really wasn't one at the time the game opens.
WHEN will the Yuezhi be replaced? When EB port to BI or? I was under the impression that they were to be removed when the patch came out but obcviously I got it wrong. So does anyone know? Thx.
Well, that's not totally true about the Belgae. They were unified enough to threaten the Aedui just shortly before the start of the game, but the Carnutes stomped them firmly and chased many of them off, so they were in a weakened state anyway, and their unity after that would be questionable since they would likely be disenchanted by their failure.Quote:
Originally Posted by GodEmperorLeto
well has anyone noticed vandal carthages sig?
and i quote:
"Romani and Bahaltn Faction Coordinator "
hmmn who are the bahaltn?
Don't get to excited it appears to be Yiddish and possibly something to do with hiding...Occultus all over, but probably a clue :2thumbsup:
We've already made our changes to the Sahara and Arabian deserts; you can see where we consolidated these dead areas into one big province each and added new provinces elsewhere on the map.
As to the actual faction placement, it will depend on several things, including when we have some unique units made for the new faction. It may wait until our move to 1.5; this makes the most sense as we won't have to fart around with more culture transfers.
Sparta was crushed long before: in 371 BC.Quote:
Originally Posted by EdwardL
Shortly after, they dismantled the agoge (their soldiering school if you like) and lost their helots (similar to slaves) so their whole system collapsed, the elite ruling class were too few and the workers just left. Sparta now had nothing. Not even their soldiers.
I guess that's how the spartans in the year our game starts managed to push back Pyrrhos from sacking their town and then followed it up with a campaign that faltered at Corinth when their king was slain. It was far less than it may have been earlier, but Sparta was still there, the soldiers were still there (if often fighting as mercs too, to try and make up for the loss of income that losing the helots brought on), and the agoge was revitalized also. The truth lies somewhere between extremes (e.g., 'had nothing...not even soldiers').
The desert areas are not going to be further consolidated are they?Quote:
Originally Posted by khelvan
Does EB need more factions, really? There are already tonnes to play (or destroy...)! :)Quote:
Originally Posted by khelvan
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trithemius
We will once the Yuezhi are gone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Trithemius
Phew!Quote:
Originally Posted by khelvan
I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth! More factions is a good thing! I just was not sure why there was a neccessity for another faction - is it a design preference or something that the engine needs to work properly?Quote:
Originally Posted by khelvan