Interficio quod Scrupulosa [Concluded]

The Year is 145BC and Rome is temporarily at peace. The third Punic War has ended and Carthage has been utterly destroyed leaving Rome as a Superpower unmatched by any. But all is not well, the senators spurred by their victories and rise to power are plotting behind each others back aiming to grab more power to themselves and even, possible, seize control Rome itself. The newly elected consul’s are struggling to maintain control of the veteran armies, many of whom owe allegiance to others on the senate. Civil war is on the horizon.

This night finds Motuus Scipio, consul of Rome, spending far too much time in his cups trying to forget the affairs of state he deals with daily. In his drunken stupor he fails to notice a black shadow slowly creeping over him. His body was found the next day by his slaves, a gladius stuck through his back.

In a hastily arranged meeting the Remaining consul addresses the senate. “Friends, Romans, Countrymen this day we have lost one of our greatest, a true hero of Rome and her People. We have lost a Consul. We have lost a friend. But while we mourn his passing a new consul must be elected to fill Mortuus’s seat BUT we have a problem. Shortly after the news reached me of my friends death I found this letter pinned to my door. In this letter is a warning from an anonymous source, friends we cannot hold elections for a new consul just yet as… his killer is one of us. The letter warns that a rebel faction within the senate are seeking to seize power by killing us all a few at a time, we cannot let this happen. In the great democratic traditions of our great nation I herby raise the motion that we find the guilty party by meeting each day and voting on who we believe the foul murderers are. It is our duty to Rome to see the rebels do not escape our justice. And so friends until the next murders, this session is Closed.”

Interficio quod Scrupulosa is an ancient Rome variant of the “mafia” forum game and will contain many of the same roles as previous games simply renamed to fit the period.

First the basic Rules:

The game takes place in ancient Rome; the players are members of the senate. The game is split into 2 phases, Night and Day. During the Night phase anyone with a special role can PM me with a target, what this does depends on the role but at the end of the night the Rebels (“mafia”) will kill several members. During the day phase all members with voting roles (the consul cannot Vote but more on that in the next section) vote on who they believe the rebels are – once a consensus is reached that person is executed. To win the Senators must kill all rebels before the end of the game.

Available Roles:

The Rebels: The rebels represent a splinter faction within the Senate that are actively killing off their rivals. Each night the Rebels will kill 2 members of the senate no matter how many of them remain. During the Night phase the Rebels must send me a PM containing their target name and the kill write up. This need not be detailed and can be as brief as you like but all methods of killing must be Appropriate to the time period (so no guns). I will edit most kills to either increase their length or remove inappropriate methods. The Rebels will win if at the end of the game at least one of them remains.

The Praetor’s: The Praetor’s are military men who in peace time often find themselves handling Roman law and as such are very good at finding the Truth of a person’s guilt. The Praetor is the “detective” and during each night phase will attempt to find the Rebels by sending me a PM with the name of a senator they wish to investigate. I will send them the result of the Investigation at the same time as I post the kills unless the Praetor himself is killed. Praetors can reveal to everyone at any point and are free to use quotes of my PM’s too them but screenshots of any type are strictly forbidden. Praetors cannot reveal to individuals, they must always reveal to everyone, and cannot reveal if dead.

The Legatus: The Legatus is a high ranking Roman General – a Veteran of the Recent Punic War. He commands a vast number of veteran soldiers all of whom would follow him to the gates of hell and beyond. He can use this loyalty to provide bodyguards to himself or his friends, protecting them from harm. The Legatus is the “Doctor”, each night he can protect one person from harm that night. They do this by sending me a PM with the name of the person they want to protect (it can be themselves!) and this person will survive the night even if targeted by the mafia (unless the Legatus is killed as well).

The Consul: The Consul is the “head” of the senate and cannot take part in the voting of his peers but it is his job to open new motions and has a certain amount of leeway in how the selected senator will be executed. The Consul is the “Town mayor” and each night will PM me with a method of execution. He cannot vote and cannot be killed – he is the only villager who will always be innocent and is free to join in during the voting phase by posting his suspicions.

The number of these roles is influx depending on how many people sign up:

0 – 24 means 2 Rebels 1 Praetor 1 consul
25 – 29 means 2 Rebels 1 Praetor 1 Legatus 1 Consul
30+ means 3 rebels 1 Praetors 2 Legatus 1 Consul

Roles will be randomised with no one person having 2 roles.

Signs up are now open and suggestions on further roles and/or current roles will be taken up until the game starts at which point I will concrete how many of each role are active

Current Sign Ups


Sasaki Kojiro
Don Corleone
Kagemusha
Kommodus
Ituralde
Destroyer of Hope
Caius Flaminius
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
Crazed Rabbit
doc_bean
Craterus
Masy
Reenk Roink
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
AggonyDuck
Proletariat
Dutch_guy
JimBob

first!

Second!

Third!Btw Sasaki that avatar looks very mean.:hide:

Count me in! :2thumbsup:

I'd like to suggest a slight change in how you've structured the roles, though:

Quote:

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0 – 24 means 2 Rebels 1 Praetor 1 consul

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This is fine.

Quote:

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25 – 29 means 2 Rebels 1 Praetor 1 Legatus 1 Consul

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This seems perhaps a bit odd. In this second tier, the rebels have both more people to kill and the Legatus to deal with, making it rather more difficult for them than tier 1. However, the balance is still pretty good, as the Legatus is not really very powerful. I guess have no changes to recommend.

Quote:

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30+ means 3 rebels 2 Praetors 1 Legatus 1 Consul

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Two Praetors will make an extremely powerful force, especially if they are working in conjunction. If they are working independently, they are still going to be quite strong. This lesson was learned in Cosa Nuova.

As the mafia already have a hard enough time winning, I recommend changing this to 3 rebels, 1 Praetor, and 2 Legatus. It's a small change on the surface but will actually have significant effects on how the game is balanced.

I'll give it a try.

Yes there may be some balance issues. 2 mafia weren't able to take out the town in Mafia V even though the detective was offed round 2. 3 mafia lost in TGF2 even though none of them were caught by the detective. TGF2 was very close however. I'd suggest having 3 rebels in all of your setups, and decreasing the number of pro-town roles as the size of the town increases, since large towns make it more difficult for mafia.

Great write up to start the game with btw.

Agreed i hadnt considered that i was trying to balance the roles - ill edit the brief in a sec

I'm in

Im in.

I'll join

Oh yeah, I'm in this one.

I'll join!

CR

sign me up !

Argh! Why not?

Myself also if you would. I will endevour to get as involved as possible in this one. BTW Sir Moody this is a great take on the bog standard mafia, I look forward to it.

This sounds too interesting to pass up! :2thumbsup:

Still, I'm going to be busy in the upcoming weeks, so I might not have too much time to participate.

Though it seems at least for the next several games, my name will be so tarnished that I'll be lynched very quickly... :laugh4:

Sounds like a fun twist.... Sign me up.

sign me up scotty

im going to start this Saturday noonish so signups will close tommorow night - keep on coming guys the more we get the more roles there will be :2thumbsup:

Sign me up

Innnnnnnnnnx0r

I'm in ~:)

:balloon2:

It was fun last time around, in

I will not be able to participate this close to the holydays... if anyone was wondering why I haven't signed up.

Sign ups end at midnight gmt so anyone who is interested you have 11 hours to go

ok signups are now closed roles will be distributed and the first night phase will begin tommorow at noon

since w egot 20 people there are 2 Rebels 1 Praetor 1 consul

if you dont recieve a PM you are a "regular" senator

Roles have been assigned the first night phase will begin at noon tomorrow and each phase will last 24 hours

Good luck to the respective sides - may the best Senator win

(oh and can a mod change the thread to read closed - thanks)

Consul Csar Steped down and watched the Senators, the news that one of their own was not only were plotting their downfal but was activly reducing their numbers had been met with mixed reactions. Several were rightfully scared and were huddling in groups speaking quietly, or were they feigning this fear and were plotting their next attacks? Others were angry and were loudly shouting at people they suspected, or were they trying trying to set up scape goats? and finally there were those who just didnt care and were openly laughing and joking - convinced that their own power was enough to save them maybe, or maybe they knew better? it was going to be a long night...


Day 1 Night is open PM's please

and guys i know theres nothing to discuss but someone say something :inquisitive:

Alright then, let's make this interesting.

In a trend begun with the conclusion of Mafia II, I've frequently found myself on the receiving end of mafia assassination plots early in the game. In the last two games that I played, this happened in such quick succession that I, cheesed off, decided to hunt down the mafia (in one of the games at least) with ruthless efficiency.

Therefore I am throwing down the gauntlet to the mafia/rebels. I appreciate the fact that I've earned your respect as a townsperson, but I'm also just a bit sick of being slaughtered early in every game because of it. So here's the deal:

Don't kill me off early in the game.

If you do, you can be sure that my full powers of deduction will be leveled against you. I'll take out all the stops, and you will certainly not escape. If, on the other hand, you allow me to live for a reasonable amount of time (say, four or five rounds), I may have mercy on you.

Now, I know how this post will be interpreted by my fellow townspeople/regular senators. "Oh," you'll think, "he's just trying to provide himself a good cover/alibi. He knows we'll suspect him when he stays alive for an unusually long period of time."

I'd understand you thinking that, but you'd be wrong. I'm not a rebel, or the Praetor - I'm just a regular senator. If I was a rebel, I would not be calling attention to myself like this. Granted, it might be some sort of clever/risky ploy - but it isn't. I wouldn't play that sort of game. It's exactly what it looks like - an attempt to stay alive for more than the usual first couple of rounds.

So to the rest of you non-rebels I say this:

Don't lynch me early in the game.

If you do, you'll get no help from me. None. I'll figure out who the rebels are anyway, but I won't say a word, except to laugh at your bumbling attempts when you lynch innocent people. I'll understand if you find me suspicious later in the game and choose to lynch me (after say, four or five rounds). But show a little respect for my intelligence and don't off me with your usual knee-jerk reaction to everyone that tries to be helpful.

There. Let's see how that flies. :book:

You know Kommodus,if i were a mafioso in this game.I would let you live after your speech.I hope that in this game the experienced players wont be butchered right from the start. :bow:

No offense, but as somebody who's not an 'experienced player' I kinda resent the idea that we should be lined up as ritual sacrafices first for assasinations/lynchings. Is that our new rule? Lynch all the newbies first, cause if it is, I suspect we're going to have a hard time getting new people to start playing.

What's more, does Kommodus start every game with threats, that if he gets assasinated or lynched, he's going to pull out all the stops? It almost sounds like he's suggesting that he'll bend the rules.

How about if we wait for some kills and descriptions before we start making any declarations on who should get lined up for lynching?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

No offense, but as somebody who's not an 'experienced player' I kinda resent the idea that we should be lined up as ritual sacrafices first for assasinations/lynchings. Is that our new rule? Lynch all the newbies first, cause if it is, I suspect we're going to have a hard time getting new people to start playing.

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DC... I'm not trying to establish a new "principle" concerning who lives and who dies. It's just that, sheesh, I've made an early exit to every game for like, three games in a row. Two early assassinations, one early lynching. Can you blame me for not wanting it to happen again?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

What's more, does Kommodus start every game with threats, that if he gets assasinated or lynched, he's going to pull out all the stops? It almost sounds like he's suggesting that he'll bend the rules.

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No, I don't start games this way. This is the only time I've done it. I wouldn't have done it had I not established a clear pattern of pinpointing the mafia with my analytical methods - that's what enables me to make the claim.

And how exactly would I "bend the rules?" I'm not the game moderator, and I can't hack into the .org, so don't have access to any information that the rest of you lack. "Pulling out all the stops" refers to the energy and creativity with which I'll go after the mafia.

Alright, alright. I see your point. You have been a high profile target for both sides in every game I've been in (that'd be back to GF2). It wasn't just your post. Kagemusha's follow-on (and he has been staying late into games) seemed to indicate that newbies should all get killed early and older players should be left alive for a while. I'm just saying that if we want to expand the normal circle of mafia to new players, that's not a good policy to employ.

Were I a rebel, I'd be tempted to kill you anyhow- just to show we're not afraid of your threats. :yes:

OTOH, since you've drawn such attention to yourself, letting you live might keep the senate guessing- they may even lynch you themselves.

Then there's yet another possibility- that you yourself are a rebel and this is just some elaborate ruse. If you were a rebel and the town lynches you, you've already got yourself an excuse for not helping the senate find your partner. And if you're not murdered, it's because of your threat- not because you are in fact a rebel. :shrug:

Curious statement indeed...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Were I a rebel, I'd be tempted to kill you anyhow- just to show we're not afraid of your threats. :yes:

OTOH, since you've drawn such attention to yourself, letting you live might keep the senate guessing- they may even lynch you themselves.

Then there's yet another possibility- that you yourself are a rebel and this is just some elaborate ruse. If you were a rebel and the town lynches you, you've already got yourself an excuse for not helping the senate find your partner. And if you're not murdered, it's because of your threat- not because you are in fact a rebel. :shrug:

Curious statement indeed...

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~:rolleyes:

Actually, in Godfather 2 our original plan was to execute the veteran players early on (pretty successful, as we nailed Kommodus and Sasaki in successive rounds :evil:), leaving only the newbies alive.

Seriously, the strategies, especially the mafia strategies, evolve so much that I wouldn't worry about it. If it was considered cutting-edge three games ago, it's probably outdated by now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Xiahou

Then there's yet another possibility- that you yourself are a rebel and this is just some elaborate ruse. If you were a rebel and the town lynches you, you've already got yourself an excuse for not helping the senate find your partner. And if you're not murdered, it's because of your threat- not because you are in fact a rebel. :shrug:

Curious statement indeed...

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This is what I was thinking. I bet Kommodus's own system would point at him given his behavior so far.

Hmm... you "senators" (why such a fine label be given to you women is beyond my intellect) are too timid in your speeches... :rolleyes:

I, Reenkaficsio, issue an ultimatum! :stupido:

To address the Rebel slaves:

Know that if Kommodus possesses his life past this coming night then you have given the senate a couple of insights, both being beneficial to us, and detrimental to you:

1) Kommodus is indeed in league with you slaves, and you will have given his identity away to us. We shall then indeed inflict on him such torture the likes of which no Carthaginian hath faced!

2) You are indeed a most effete group, and by being intimidated in such a fashion, we shall have no great task in rooting you out and crucifying you, leaving your carcasses on display along the country roads, with feces tiaras.

And now to address my fellow senators:

If Kommodus is indeed left alive, we must execute him ourselves. He has easily become a most worthy bride for my sword.

And now to address Kommodus:

If you indeed are innocent, we will use augurs to interpret your information in our search. Do not be lax!

Remember: Reenkaficsio for emperor! :rtwyes:

Reenks what the hell are you talking about?:sweatdrop:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Don Corleone

Alright, alright. I see your point. You have been a high profile target for both sides in every game I've been in (that'd be back to GF2). It wasn't just your post. Kagemusha's follow-on (and he has been staying late into games) seemed to indicate that newbies should all get killed early and older players should be left alive for a while. I'm just saying that if we want to expand the normal circle of mafia to new players, that's not a good policy to employ.

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Don my friend.I only expressed my individual opinion there. All players only have their opinions.What did i do wrong when i encouraged that the experienced players shouldnt be butchered in the first rounds? In two of the latest mafia games that happened and how those games played out? Two loss for the mafia.Becouse by killing of the many experienced players the mafia also made sure that those persons were innocent.Look,im not advocating the lynching and killing of the newbies here. But that its not viable mafia tactics to solemly target the experienced players.I know that some reason you think that im a dangerous player.But im just as dangerous of any other player in this game:bow: .

I don't think I fully understood the conswquences Kommodus has stated in his post. There are, I think three scenarios:

1) The Rebels kill you early on and now you will hunt them down ruthlessly.

2) The Senators (or maybe even the Rebels in their role als Senator) lynch you in the first few round and you turn your back on this game an won't help the Senate.

3) You survive the first few rounds and are now bound by your promise to give the Rebels some leeway, meaning that you will not help the Senate with full force.

So the only way to get you to investigate the Rebels the way you've done it in previous games would be if the Rebels killed you. Otherwise we Senators could not benefit from your deductions, because you stated to not give them to us.
I find this rather strange... :inquisitive:


Just remember Kommodus that, as a Senator, the goal of the game is not to live but to uncover the Rebels. The only case, where surviving would be beneficial is when you are a Rebel, although it is not strictly necessary.

I'd probably kill Kommodus if I was a rebel, just because he issued a challenge and what kind of Senator would turn his back to that ? I think probably half the players feel the same, not the best move you could have made if you wanted to live Komm.
Then again, the mafia might decide to not kill you and see if you get lynched, or simply wait three or four rounds, just to spread confusion. This might be to their benefit too. I see this as a lose-lose situation for the loyal senators, very suspicous. Of course, the tone of your post makes it sounds like you're not willing to give tracking down the rebels a lot of effort anyway, why are you playing then ?

Very strange...

Also: Reenk, wtf is your post about ? Either Kommodus should get killed or we should execute him ? What's your reasoning ? It's not like he said he was the detective and posted a PM or anything like that. He has a higher chance of getting killed than usual, I agree, but no where near 100%, so i don't see how we would always benefit from lynching him early.

See, the confusion has already begun, this is going to keep us busy for a few nights and hinder our efforts of fining the real (or other) rebels.

Consul Csar slept well that night and awoke to no new murders, surely this was a good sign and that the letter was a poor joke. It was not to be so...

Senator Fatum Rodent, known affectionatly by his friends as "the Crazed Rabbit" was taking an early morning bath, he only loved 2 things in life and intrigue was one of them. While he considered the events of the day before, analysing which senators would be most likely to be Rebels his second love walked in, a beautiful slave girl. So distracted by the Slave as she walked through depositing towels he didnt notice the shadow creeping over him or the leather strap wrap around his neck. His last thought was he would never know the slave girls name...

Hearing the news Csar called an emergency sitting of the senate and rushed to meet them. While the Senators were gathering Venenum Masy was having to endure the usual greetings. As a powerful and very rich senator he was well used to the hand shakes and back slaps before a senate meeting and frankly found it dull. When csar arrived the Senators filed in and took their seats. As Csar began his opening speech Venenum realised the senate was awfully cold today and began to shiver, the shiver became shakes and the shakes became an uncontrollable fit. Csar ran to the dieing senator but could find no vitiable injury's except a small needle prick at the back of his neck...

"Friends the rebels have stuck and 2 of our great senators are dead it is our duty to find their killers and execute them - the senate floor is now open and one of us shall be executed before tonight - may the gods let us chose correctly!"

Alive
Sasaki Kojiro
Don Corleone
Kagemusha
Kommodus
Ituralde
Destroyer of Hope
Caius Flaminius
Csar
GeneralHankerchief
doc_bean
Craterus
Reenk Roink
Xiahou
Peasant Phill
AggonyDuck
Proletariat
Dutch_guy
JimBob

Dead
Crazed Rabbit
Masy

Executed



Voting is open and will close at noon tommorow

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

[I]Consul Csar slept well that night and awoke to no new murders, surely this was a good sign and that the letter was a poor joke. It was not to be so...

Senator Fatum Rodent, known effectionatly by his friends as "the Crazed Rabbit" was taking an early morning bath, he only loved 2 things in life and intregue was one of them. While he considered the events of the day before, anaylsing which senators would be most likely to be Rebels his second love walked in, a beutiful slave girl. So distracted by the Slave as she walked through depositing towels he didnt notice the shadow creeping over him or the leather strap wrap around his neck. His last thought was he would never know the slave girls name...

Hearing the news Csar called an emergancy sitting of the senate and rushed to meet them. While the Senators were gathering Venenum Masy was having to endure the usual greetings. As a powerful and very rich senator he was well used to the hand shakes and back slaps before a senate meeting and frankly found it dull. When csar arrived the Senators filed in and took their seats. As Csar began his opening speach Venenum relised the senate was awfully cold today and began to shiver, the shiver became shakes and the shakes became an uncontrolable fit. Csar ran to the dieing senator but could find no visiable injury's except a small needle prick at the back of his neck...

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The mafia are OBVIOUSLY terrible spellers. ~:rolleyes:

n.b. it can't be sir moody because the first post has immaculate spelling.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro

The mafia are OBVIOUSLY terrible spellers. ~:rolleyes:

n.b. it can't be sir moody because the first post has immaculate spelling.

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Or someone who doesn't quite understand how to use Spell check.

:balloon2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutch_guy

Or someone who doesn't quite understand how to use Spell check.

:balloon2:

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No. If you search the gameroom for these misspelled words they only place they show up is in this thread. The mafioso's in question would have had to never spelled them incorrectly in all of the previous games. Also, writing style doesn't match the poor spelling. Hence the roll eyes smiley.

Whoever is the detective should definitely have investigated Kommodus.

i didnt spell check it ok :help:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

i didnt spell check it ok :help:

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haha ok. So the kills were written by you then?

Is "Strike For The South" a mystery player in this game?

Sorry Strike, if you're peeking in here. Just a little humor. :beam:

Anyway, I'm not certain what to make of Kommodu's threat. Apparently the mafia took it seriously, assuming that it's not just part of a cover for Kommodus. I'm surprised, I really expected the mafia to actually kill him BECAUSE of it.

Him or Reenk. Reenk was practically insulting them. And he bascially said that if the mafia didn't kill Kommodus, then we'd know he was working with them. I don't buy that, and I find his ultimatum odd. He knew Kommodus wouldn't be killed, so he knew he already had a lynching victim lined up. How could he know that?

If I misread your post, Reenk, please, correct me. Otherwise...

Vote: Reenk

yes and no sas the mafia wrote the base kill line and I edited it - its going to be a long game if you pick out all my spelling mistakes...

Hmmm, my guess would be someone who hasn't posted yet- not that it narrows it down by that much. Your typical rebel would be leery of drawing unwanted attention to themselves and would likely not participate in the discussion that took place before the first kills were even logged.

Of course, a more daring rebel might have waded into the discussion from the beginning- but I still feel confident that at least one rebel would be lurking thus far. Besides, lurkers give us nothing to go on- at least active posters give us a track record to look back on in later rounds.

I'm still not fully convinced by Kommodus maneuver and there seems to be no penalty for lynching him. His post was also suspicious as only a veteran player would attempt a stunt like that and hope to get away with it.

Fellow Senators,
It has come to my attention that Senator Kommodus has openly declared that he will collaborate with the Rebels, if they would spare his life. Such an act of cowardice is not worthy of a true Roman! The friend of my enemy is my enemy.
Unless he refutes his connections to the Rebels and gives us full support in the search for those miscreants amongst us, he leaves me no choice, but to cast my vote for him. I'm reluctant to lynch an experienced Senator like him, as he has proven a worthy aid in the past. However open collaboration with the enemy can not be tolerated. If the fear for his life was so dear and his findings so important to our cause, why not ask for protection from our Legate?
As a sign of my disapproval for Senator Kommodus behaviour, I cast my vote as follows:

Vote: Kommodus


As stated above, this vote is not set, but I would like to hear a little more about Kommodus motives and assurance that he will help the Senators in exchange for not lynching him.

Okay, let me first say that my attention will not be fully focused on this game for around a week. Dutch_guy can attest to this (I'm fighting a massive battle in Will of the Senate, you see). However, I will do the best that I can to watch the thread and give my input when I feel it is necessary.

First of all, I suggest that our Praetor investigate Csar. The sooner we know his identity, the better. He could be the town's (Senate's) key to winning the whole thing.

Finally, as before, I believe that Kommodus is innocent. These kills apparently only being a base confirms it, as I don't believe K can resist writing a good story.

Vote: Abstain

Csar is the Consul - as stated in the rules in the first post he is always innocent and cannot vote

I don't think we should lynch Kommodus. I don't think a mafioso would dare to warrant such attention to himself at the start. Unless of course Kommodus possesses considerable testicular fortitude. So I'd suggest we keep him alive for now, but we should remain suspicious of him as we should remain of pretty much anyone.

I do not think that it is in our advantage to abstain now. Thus I will cast my vote on someone and I've decided to cast my vote on Craterus. He has an uncanny ability to survive far in to the game, without really much posting anything and remaining as a great unknown throughout the whole game.

Vote: Craterus

I knew my speech would cause my detractors to come out of the woodwork! There are many ways for a man to discern who his enemies are. :stare:

Apparently Reenk Roink has an interest in my demise. First he urges the rebels to kill me... then urges the senators to lynch me if they don't. Now how do you think the rebels would respond to this?

The rebels know that if I am killed, my vengeful spirit will dog their steps until the end of their short lives. This is the worst-case outcome for them; obviously they won't do it if they don't have to. It makes some sense for Reenk to challenge them to kill me, then, as that's the outcome the senate might hope for.

However, Reenk doesn't stop there. He then urges the senate to lynch me if the rebels let me live. That's precisely what the rebels are hoping for, as they know that my death at the hands of the mob rids them - permanently - of one of their most dangerous rivals. So it's hardly a surprise that I have lived through the night.

Reenk, please explain yourself, for I find your words unwelcome and suspicious. :inquisitive:

Then we have newcomer Ituralde. Can his unenlightened accusation be attributed to ignorance? Let's see.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ituralde

It has come to my attention that Senator Kommodus has openly declared that he will collaborate with the Rebels, if they would spare his life.

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It would appear that he misuses the word "collaborate." The word collaborate implies cooperation, aid, assistance. I promised no such thing.

You see, even when not using my full analytical abilities, I remain one of the most dangerous foes of the rebels. I have many weapons at my disposal. I have only promised to withhold the use of my most dangerous weapons, which are formidable indeed, should the rebels spare my life.

And yet Ituralde has the nerve to accuse me of conspiracy with the rebels! My fellow senator, if true senator you be, I would have your head at this moment were it not for the respect I have for the democratic process!

With two strong suspects to choose from, I choose for now to vote: Ituralde. His mistaken move will only have the effect of serious harm to the senate. Let him explain himself! :rtwno:

Rereading the thread a bit more closely, I see my ultimatum has drawn criticism. Let me try to clear up a few points of misunderstanding.

1. It has been suggested that I promised to "not help" the senators if the rebels let me live. That was not what I promised - I will still use my analytical abilities. However, I have new, more deadly tools in development, which will not be used immediately as long as I live.

2. doc_bean has suggested that my words will serve only to confuse and draw attention away from the real guilty parties. I have a solution for this. Don't dwell on it. There is no hidden meaning in anything I've said - it's all the plain truth. Unless you feel you have reason to think otherwise, let it go at that and pursue other leads for now.

3. doc_bean further suggests that my ultimatum sets up a lose-lose situation for the senators. Properly understood, this is not the case. If the rebels kill me, the senate wins - every weapon in my arsenal is leveled at them. If the rebels and the senate let me live, the senate wins - I still expend considerable effort in my search for the guilty; just not quite what I would have otherwise. If the senate kills me, the senate loses, for they prove themselves unworthy and ungrateful for my help.

As I said before, don't waste too much effort thinking about me, for if you do I've failed in my intended purpose, which is to help the senate and to exceed my usual life expectancy. There are other, more worthy leads to follow up. For example, it's also important that we get the lurkers to post, lest they be allowed to fly under the radar.

Senators:
I, Caius Flaminius, think someone here is causing a diseaster.We must be joined in this diseaster, 2 of us have been killed and we must be strong of this situation.

So, my vote is for Reenk.
His "ultimatum" is not the solution to kill the responsibles. Neither is acussating a senator without a good reason.

The unofficial vote count
Reenk-2(Don C. and Caius)
Kommodus-1(Ituralde)
Craterus-1(Aggony)
Ituralde-1(Kommodus)

In the interest of creating a tie and extending the round until those who haven't posted do so...
Vote: Ituralde

Senators:

Needless to say, I am disappointed so far at the speeches given. I will simplify my elocution for the plebeians among us and then set out to refute the slander against me shortly, however, I must attend to some matters presently...

Oh https://img128.imageshack.us/img128/6800/emotwtcae8.gif

I was going to wait and see who went after Kommodus, reasoning that they would jump at a chance to eliminate him. But he is acting so suspicious that I can't blame anyone for voting him, in fact

Vote:Kommodus

You are acting different and that's the biggest mafia tell we're likely to get day one. Your method takes a few rounds to get data. If you are townie it wouldn't matter whether you were dead or not. In the past you've only showed minor annoyance at getting killed or lynched. Your concern with getting lynched this game means you have a role.

Reenk was just messin around getting into the spirit of things. Ituralde had good reason for his vote. An innocent Kommodus wouldn't go after them for this, he told me in TGF2 that he'd given up on psychoanalysis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kommodus

It would appear that he misuses the word "collaborate." The word collaborate implies cooperation, aid, assistance. I promised no such thing.

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You withhold information from the Senate that could lead to the detection of the Rebels, why else would you do such a thing that ultimately hightens the chances of a Rebel win, if not to help them?

Furthermore doc_bean and I have brought forth similar arguments yet you choose to lynch me out of a grudge. You also haven't addressed the question of the Legate protection and why your life is so important to you in this game.
A dead Senator can still win the game.

I had followed a similar strategy to Sasaki waiting to see who else votes for you Kommodus. I have no intention of killing you yet. Killing Kommodus now would be indicative of helping the Mafia.

RL doesn't permit me to keep up this ruse any longer as I won't get to post before the end of election so I have to change my vote this early without getting more results.

Unvote: Kommodus
Vote: Abstain

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kommodus

3. doc_bean further suggests that my ultimatum sets up a lose-lose situation for the senators. Properly understood, this is not the case. If the rebels kill me, the senate wins - every weapon in my arsenal is leveled at them. If the rebels and the senate let me live, the senate wins - I still expend considerable effort in my search for the guilty; just not quite what I would have otherwise. If the senate kills me, the senate loses, for they prove themselves unworthy and ungrateful for my help.

---

Now now Kommodus, now it seems like you are almost issueing a challenge for us to lynch you and see how far we'll get. I agree with Sasaki that your behaviour is pretty suspicious, however I'm not convinced you're mafia yet, and you ARE indeed a valuable player, so keeping you alive might be in our best interest, for now.

Reenk has been acting very out of character this game, then again, I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt, since he got so much critisism lately for acting 'in character'. Still, massive turn around, could be suspicious.

Ituralde went straight for Kommodus, but then claims it was only a ruse, could eb true, could not be,

I'll have to think a little longer about who should die. for now I vote:abstain, but hope to change that beofre the end of the day.

I'm not sure what to believe with Kommodus but I can understand where he's coming from. No one wants to be killed early in the game three games in the row. Until I get more evidence.

Vote:abstain

vote abstain

For the moment one can only guess. Kommodus did something nobody here did before and automaticly and logically drew attention to himself. This in itself is a great way (as a pro town role) to survive the first kills of the mafia. Added to this is the threat of the full use of his secret arsenal of mafia detection tools.
He, however, made himself very suspicous by using an unnessecary threat towards the town. I can't blame certain people to be very wary about such behavior. So I would suggest the preator to investigate Kommodus if he isn't lynched this round.

Voting Closed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Moody

Voting Closed

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Oh man. That's unfair, I was busy last night and had prepared a really good post. :disappointed:

Csar Stood and cleared his throat, "It appears we have reached an end for this vote and 2 Senators have come out equal - both Senator Magnus Caput capitis, known to most as Reenk Roink and Senator Ituralde have 2 votes. To rectify this I once again open the floor, you may only vote for Reenk Roink or Ituralde,as always abstaining is an option - cast your votes well my friends"

Votes
Reenk Roink = 2 (Don Corleone, Caius Flaminius)
Ituralde = 2 (Kommodus, Jimbob)
Kommodus = 1 (Sasaki Kojiro)
Craterus = 1 (Aggony Duck)
abstain = 5 (GeneralHankerchief, Ituralde, Doc_bean, DestroyerofHope, Peasant Phill)

Vote are open until tomorrow at noon

sorry Reenk i was actually 30 minutes past the deadline so was closed late...

Um... gah? I don't think the person being lynched this time has more than two votes.

Why are so few people voting?! :help:

It looks like I'll sqeak by this round, with only one vote against me (thank you very much Sasaki), but I'm not exactly what you'd call satisfied with that. Sasaki's right - participation = townspeople victory, while lack of participation = mafia victory.

I guess it's the holiday season; I'm sure my participation level will drop a bit in the coming weeks too. Still, there aren't many valid excuses for not even showing up. This game has fewer people than usual; that means the town has fewer chances. The mafia only need to survive six rounds at most - and that's assuming no mod-kills.

That's all I have to say about that...

As for Sasaki's accusation - yes, my behavior's changed for this game. Blatantly. And yes, I know that the goal here is not to survive, but to win; and further, I'm well aware that I can help the town even when dead. Heck, I'm one of the first ones here to say those very things - way back in Mafia II.

I play these games for the intellectual challenge. I've proven I have the ability to identify mafia - multiple times. However, survival has been a bit more elusive. I've been killed quickly in three straight games, and out of seven games I've survived only one - Mafia IV in which my tool nailed the mafia too quickly for them to kill me.

So this time I decided to try an experiment. I'm trying something that has never been tried before, just to see how well it will work. If no one ever tries new experiments, nothing new is ever learned. If I die because of it, so be it.

But remember, my promise still stands. You lynch me, I'm out - you'll have wasted a lynch thrown away one of your most helpful players. The mafia will probably win if you do this.

EDIT: Oops, I started typing this before Sir Moody's announcement of the tie. Hm...

Ituralde withdrew his vote for me, sparing me the unpleasantness of being part of a three-way tie. He's probably innocent.

In all honesty, Reenk is probably innocent too, but he seems (to me) to be the better bet. Besides, he has yet to die early in any game AFAIK. We may as well get this first round over with. Sasaki's right - my methods all need data in order to work.

Vote: Reenk Roink

The post that won't matter:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Addressed to the plebeians who cannot understand secondary school rhetoric:

My original post was an evaluation of the situation as Kommodus’ post was suspicious or at least odd, no?

Please reread these statements, or ask your mommy to read it to you:

“If you do (kill me), you can be sure that my full powers of deduction will be leveled against you. I'll take out all the stops, and you will certainly not escape. If, on the other hand, you allow me to live for a reasonable amount of time (say, four or five rounds), I may have mercy on you.”

“If you do (lynch me), you'll get no help from me. None. I'll figure out who the rebels are anyway, but I won't say a word, except to laugh at your bumbling attempts when you lynch innocent people. I'll understand if you find me suspicious later in the game and choose to lynch me (after say, four or five rounds). But show a little respect for my intelligence and don't off me with your usual knee-jerk reaction to everyone that tries to be helpful.”

Now, essentially, if Kommodus is a senator (that is in doubt), then doesn’t he seem like a very selfish person? After all, his help is conditional on how others treat him. I say good riddance to that.

Now, Kommodus was not killed last round. This can either mean:

1) Kommodus is a rebel, and cannot be killed by rebels.
2) Kommodus is a senator and intimidated the rebels into leaving him alive.
3) Kommodus is a senator and the rebels just didn’t care enough/at all about his post.

Now, if it is either 2 or 3, and Kommodus remains alive for several rounds (he’s already passed his biggest hurdle in round one), then he will be no help to us anyway, as stated by himself personally. He may even be grateful to the rebels and mislead us.

All of this is also discounting the fact that Kommodus may very well be a rebel, and certainly is one of the top suspects if not the main one.

Reenkaficsio doesn’t play this ****.

Now, back to present matters…

Addressed to the people who slandered me (Don Corleone and Caius Flaminius):

So you think me more worthy of a vote than Kommodus. This belief in itself is self refuting. Kommodus is clearly more suspicious than my flamboyant and eccentric self. I will indulge with you no longer because I have lost all hope for your reformation of character. I hope Thracian slaves eat your children! :stare:

Addressed to the Rebels:

Rebel slaves, your actions herald great news for us senators. You are either:

1) Timid as hell and thus easy to suppress. Your flimsy limbs may cause problems in your crucifixions however…
2) In league with Kommodus, in which you have drawn attention to him from now on. Do not expect Kommodus to be alive by the end, whether it be a triumph for the senate or the rebel slaves.
3) Aloof from it all. (least likely)

1 and 2 are clearly more plausible than 3, so I am unconcerned by you. As far as I can see, you are as much a threat as a one armed Samnite warrior with crappy triple disc armor.

Addressed to the rest:

My fellow senators, we must eliminate Kommodus this round. He stands above and beyond any other as a most plausible rebel. Now, I see that not many of you are taking a stand to defend me, Reenkaficsio. Some even think me suspicious and two slander me. Why? Because I am outspoken? Because I act instead of remaining passive like a woman or Persian? I ask you to recall, senators, that it was because of people like me that the menace of Carthage was finally snuffed out. If others had carried the day in the assembly, Rome would be a Punic colony thanks to a revitalized Carthaginian empire. It runs in my blood, the ability to act decisively. It was my father at Pydna, who rallied the troops that ran from the Macedonian onslaught and crushed them when they advanced on the broken and hilly terrain in pursuit. It was my grandfather at Cynoscephalae who broke through the left wing of the enemy and then attacked the right wing from the rear, sealing victory. So if you really want to kill Reenkaficsio, so be it. For my part, I want to kill the rebels, and there is no one who is more likely to be a rebel than Kommodus!

Vote: Kommodus

Edit: Hmm, it seems I won't be lynched (just yet). Ok, well I won't vote for Ituralde just yet, because I think it's Kommodus...

Interesting to see how Kommodus votes for me before I voted for him... :wink:

By the way Kommodus, I have died early in two of the three games before Mafia V.

Hmm, damn, I was a little preoccupied and forgot to actually vote for someone. Partly because I have no idea who to vote for this early, of course.

I don't know much about Ituralde, is this his first game or have we just been playing in different games ? His attack on Kommodus makes him somewhat suspicious, but then it could have been well intentioned.

Reenk really seems to make an effort this time, and that's not like him (sorry Reenk I know i've been one of the people most vocal against you abstain policy, and now I'm the one who has abstained :shame:).

Please people, post your thoughts, I need more to go on in order to chose, they both seem somewhat suspicious to me, so we might have a chance of hanging a mafiosi today.

Can someone abstain in this votation or i have to select only one?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Caius Flaminius

Can someone abstain in this votation or i have to select only one?

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You're allowed to abstain AFAIK.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reenk Roink

By the way Kommodus, I have died early in two of the three games before Mafia V.

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Ah, my mistake then. Refresh my memory - which games were those? I seem to remember you lasting quite a while in games like Mafia III and Cosa Nuova. You also survived Mafia IV; I don't remember how you fared in the Godfather series.

Seeing as I got into this situation by voting for Kommodus and then pulling back and having JimBob vote for me to create a tie, I really have little to say in my defense.

Anyone who has followed the thread should know that I targeted Kommodus because he acted suspicious/different. I withdrew my vote because I see no gain from lynching Kommdous.

Since someone has to die in the first round to get the game going and the chances for getting a Mafia first try are pretty low, I don't see much harm in lynching an innocent like me. It happens in most games anyway.

Reenk Roinks statements don't sound too suspicious too me either. Really sad that the two people standing on trial are the ones that have participated a bit more and stated their oppinions. No wonder so many didn't dare post or draw attention the last round.


My Dear friends! Fellow Senators!

With much grieve do I note that my open speculation about one of our own has put me in this dire situation with my comrade Reenk Roink. As one of us has to perish at the end of this day, self-preservation is the only option available to a true Roman. So I will have to cast my vote on Reenk Roink, though I beleive him innocent and would much rather have one of my apparently deaf and mute colleagues standing there, who were probably to engrossed in plotting their next kills to participate in our noble discussions.
If I die this day, know that my death will not be the end and my guidance shall still come to you.


Vote: Reenk Roink

Reenk, I don't know if you're engaged in a failed attempt at humorous role-playing, but insulting me and calling me names, let alone misrepresenting my argument, is NOT going to get me to change my vote. As you're normally a pretty rational fellow, all it's doing to to is cement your guilt in my mind.

1) I BEGAN my post talking about how suspicious Kommodus was. I also concluded, for you to see (talk about needing reading lessons) that he was being too obvious.

2) You on the other hand insult the mafia and basically dare them to kill Kommodus. You stated that if the mafia didn't rise to your challenge and kill Kommodus, then Kommodus must be one of the mafia. How could you possibly have known ahead of time that Kommodus wasn't going to get assasinated? It looked (and even more so now) to me as though YOU knew he wasn't going to get assasinated, and YOU were trying to find a patsy to lynch in round one.

3) In every game up until the New Mafia and Mafia V, you've been big on abstaining, only answering challenges when somebody pointed a finger at you. In the last 2 games, you started acting very pro-actively. Surprise, surprise, you were mafia in both games. Now here you are doing it again.... what am I supposed to think?

4) I told you my mind was not hard and fast. I told you if I my thinking was flawed, explain to me where I went wrong. Instead, you decide to insult me and belittle me, saying that I don't even have a secondary school education. Kiss my ___, buddy. You're now #1 on my list from here on out.

Vote: Reenk