Rome almost defeated

I'm in trouble.

In my Roman campaign, I pacified the South, Corsica and Sardinia, so I don't get much grief with the Epirotes and the Carthaginians.

But now, the Aedui are getting so powerful that they lay siege to this Aventicos town that I conquered. I mostly trained Celts to deal with Celts, and even got a full stack army (fully trained Roman citizen legion, hastati, principes, and triarii etc) into the vicinity. Except after a few victories, the armies got decimated. after facing several stacks.

So while I'm occupied with Aedui, the Sweboz starts attacking. I took one of their towns (Iuva or something), looted it, and abandoned it.

But then a few turns later, the Sweboz and Aedui ally and laid siege to Aventicos and captured it. Then they turned to Milan, and Segesta. I tried to reinforce Segesta by moving the Arpi Garisson of Archers to Segesta, but the city fell before the reinforcements could get there.

So now, Milan is on it's last legs, with Sweboz eyeing Patavium.

And the 1 turn recruiting is killing me. I need more men! I could bring the men up from the central and South penisula, but it's just too slow.

One thing I learned though, is the value of Archers, specifically, fire arrows are my friend. :idea2:

Oh, and I got this Scipio Asina guy into Vanquisher of Germans when he captured Iuva, but then he died a few turns later in the siege.

I would fall back. Drag whatever troops you still have in Northern Italy towards Arretium, and start recruiting everywhere. Start stockpiling mercenaries as well. I would disband any ships you have, because they will just be wasted money for you.

Have you had the Polybian reforms? What difficulty are you playing?

can you send me your saved game? Your game progression sounds fun :)

Anyways, plz post a screenshot of the campaign mini map so we have a better idea what you're talking about.

Since you're doing badly, are you playing by any house rules or something?

If you have enough cash, just hire crap loads of mercs...

playing M/M, with Polybian reforms!
That's what I'm going to do, I guess, fall back! Fall back!

"playing M/M, with Polybian reforms!"

Are you new to Rome total war?

Cuz most people steam roll by polybian reforms...even on VH/VH.


Build forts so the enemy don't seige your cities & cut off your trade income...build mercs and go on the offensive.

btw, are you playing by any house rules?

The problem is with finances.
I also distrust mercs for some reason, but I might give it a try.
Yes, I'm fairly new, or rather, I never get into the game to study the tactics, etc.
Anyway, the point is I almost always put my battle formation like this

AAAAA

G HHHHH G

PPPPP

TTTTT

(Archers or slingers) Hastati, Principe and Triarii. and (General and cavalry)

And I'm a hopeless Infantry nut, so I always or almost always put the Gs in the AI control

Total noob, I know.

Like CA said, pull all troops out of other parts of your empire and reinforce Italy. If you allow Milan and Segesta to bw taken then you will soon be facing a situation similar to the Second Punic War. Divert all funds to creating more legions. Upgrade walls in your threatened Northern Italian cities. Make sure that your central Italian cities (which, at this point in the game, are by far your best) are well guarded in case any sneaky barbarians slip past.


After you are safe from attack in Italy, you might want to spend some time consolidating your power, makeing economic improvements and building up armies. Take your time, and play on the defensive. Your soldiers shouldn't cross the Alps until you're confident that you are prepared for anything and everything.

Don't over expand, and go into Spain before Gaul. Conquering Gaul is what indirectly caused all of the problems in my (recently abandoned) Romani campaign, and led to my eventual downfall.

Above all, don't give up, even if the barbarian alliance surrounds Roma itself! Remember that Roman stubborness even in the face of certain defeat is what saved them from Hannibal. Good luck on your campaign.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMu

The problem is with finances.
I also distrust mercs for some reason, but I might give it a try.
Yes, I'm fairly new, or rather, I never get into the game to study the tactics, etc.
Anyway, the point is I almost always put my battle formation like this
(Archers or slingers) Hastati, Principe and Triarii. and (General and cavalry)

And I'm a hopeless Infantry nut, so I always or almost always put the Gs in the AI control

Total noob, I know.

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lol, you should've played RTW before playing the EB mod
also don't use formations...just stretch out your infantry melee force and surround the enemy when they engage. Works every time and causes massive enemy rout with few casualties yourself. Archers/skirmishers in front of course

I agree, formations are fun for roleplaying, but in times of emergency you might have to make an exception.

Well, if you can, engage them at the rivers and kill them that way. To fix your finances, you really ought to focus on building roads, the medium market, and a decent port in your coastal provinces. Also, trade rights with the Greeks help too. Don't build too many ships, either.

Also, AI control sucks. As a general rule of thumb, you want all your heavy infantry in the middle with lighter infantry behind, skirmishers(meat shields) infront to protect your heavy infantry, and elites on the edges, middle, or behind your main line incase something bad happens. Cavalry should be put on the sides. Slingers should be on the sides or infront while archers should be hinding behind your infantry.

Here's a pic
I got confused with Arverni and Aedui, anyway, it was the Arverni
I didn't realise it was 225 BC already. I got Polybian in 240 something.
https://img392.imageshack.us/img392/...efeatedzt5.jpg

I'm screwed, right?

good god!
I didn't realise it, but looking at the pic now, I think the Macedonians are even deader than I am.
Anyway, I played with fog of war on.

Screwed? Nah, but it will be a challenge. You've gotta sqeeze every bit of worth out of your units, and use your generals as liberally as possible too. Those guys will grow back as long as the character doesn't die, remember. The best thing is that you can concentrate all your efforts on the north. Try to find one of your two enemies allies, and ally with them - one of the two might come over to your side in time. Then focus on taking out the other one.

Its not bad. If you can conquer the areas beyong the Alps, you can kill hordes of celts at the river crossings. However, I'd get Segesta back first...

http://www.geocities.com/darth_u/rome2.zip

So anyway, here's the savegame for anyone interested.

OMG, I didn't even how big the AS had gotten. Crap.

You're not screwed yet, the Sweboz were even bigger in my campaign. Your first priority now is to take back Segesta. Then you might want to seal off the Alps with (free!) forts.

PS: Lower the taxes on Arminium. I noticed its population isn't growing.

Dang? Where u roleplaing or something, sh*t 240BC and ur still in Italy.

Anywho, I'll advice that you start getting fancy in ur battles and start using terrian to ur advange (hint* HILLS!!!)

Also, recruit Pezetaroi (sp) from southern Italy. A few of them will basically form an unbreakable center, and use the rest of ur army to outflank.

Let us know who it goes!!!

Quote:

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Dang? Where u roleplaing or something, sh*t 240BC and ur still in Italy.

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This makes the game so much mroe fun, because your enemies are actually strong by the time you reach them.

Alright, what I would suggest at this point would be to empty the Patavium garrison of anyone that can be spared. It doesn't look seriously threatened, so lower the taxes and empty the people out of there. Start recruiting lots of Roman core units. Start playing around with having Gauls on your flanks. Their spears will work well against cavalry, and they will save you money.

Start getting some mercenaries and stuff ready in Bononia and Arretium. With these units and any other troops you ahve recruited by then, attack Segesta. This should definitely be enough.

Assuming Mediolanium holds (Which it may or may not), start placing your armies in areas that you can ambush people on their way to your towns. Also block off at least one pass with a strong garrison in a fort.

Then you should strike north with two decent strength armies (at least 12 or so units) and capture and burn Aventicos and Veldideno, letting them rebel. This should buy you some time. With this time, start recruiting more soldiers and mercs. Then you should strike at Massalia, which thanks to the bridges is very easy to defend with a medium sized army.

From there you could really go anywhere. I would ignore the suggestion to go to Spain, openning another front isn't a great idea at this point. Working your way along the south of Gaul would be alright, because you are taking the most profitable Arverni towns from them.

Anyway, that's my advice, take what you want.

Taking Southern Gaul will open up a large, undefended border for the barbarians to pour in to your empire. While depriving the Arverni of their best provinces is a good idea, you may want to try a Carthaginian solution on those Gallic provinces. (Exterminate the populace, destry every building that you can, and leave it to the rebels.) If you do take southern gaul, you might have some problems.

In my experience, taking half Gaul will just encourage attacks every turn on your cities from the North, which are left out in the open with no Alps to protect them. This makes economic development very hard as you are paying for more men to garrison/re-capture those cities. If you take all of Gaul up to the Rhine, then you will be provoking the even more dangerous Sweboz. Taking Gaul early is what killed my economy (I had too much pride to just give it up.) My suggestion is just to conquer Massalia and maybe Tolosa.

That is why I suggest that you try to take Illyria or Spain, both of which seem to turn a profit more quickly. Be aware that Spian will open up a front against two factions tough, so like CA said it might not be the best idea.

As soon as Italy is secured, try investing in a German Legion. This legion, comprised of a 19-stack combination of Polybian troops of your choice and led by a good general, will head North. Using this legion, apply the Carthaginian solution to every barbarian city in your path, making your way up to the Sweboz homeland. Once you have lain waste to the homeland, feel free to move attack the Arverni from the backdoor if your legion is still in fighting shape. Of course, you might be in no position to do this, just try if you have the extra money. Hopefully this tactic will cripple the barbarians.

I might want to try your savegame, btw. What version of EB are you using DMu, and do you have any other mini-mods installed?

Perhaps you can ally with the Sarmatians or with Epirus. Build forts in the alp-passes. And command your Cavalry yourself! Cavalry is in my opinion just the most important and deciding unit. Conquer Segesta and Segestica, and then try to conquer the four alp-provinces, they will give you alot of money.

^ yeh, what the other ppl said. Just skip the role playing and start steam rolling. Micro manage your battles and you'll never lose. Start your imperial expansion :)

after a few turns, status report:

I destroyed the siege army of the Sweboz around Milan with my Garrison. Had Lucanius from Patavium build forts along the river crossings.

Except after a few more turns...

Lucanius was destroyed.
Patavium is has been captured by Sweboz
Milan is okay now, I guess.
So the network of forts (around 4 or 5) have 2 units or less in them, with one fort near Segesta in the hand of the Arverni.

But I did bring up my Hellenic army that was training in Taras. (It composed of my faction leader, classical hoplites and hellenic archers) It is expected to retake Patavium, and later Segesta.

:embarassed:

I'm also starting to train a Imperial legion.

Use slingers, they kill EVERYTHING.

Try to use slingers rather then archers - slingers have generally more range and impact.

Because of my noobishness...

Patavium was retaken, as was Segesta

However...

Patavium is under siege by one and 3/4 full stack of Sweboz.
Milan is okay for the moment, but going to be under siege soon.
Arverni planning to siege Segesta.

I did dispatch what's left of my Hellenic army into Sweboz territory.
After two battles, my Faction heir died. Leaving 100 to 200 troops. (I think they started with 600 or so. But breaking the siege of Milan in the woods cost them.

Now I don't have an army to fight the one and 3/4 full stack of Sweboz bent on blood in Patavium.

Oh and I dispatched the 4 to 5 generals from Rome to the front lines with a bunch of archers.

They died.

I think I'm hopelessly noobish.

In the years 223 to 222. BC

Pahlava destroyed
Lusotana declare war against Arverni
SPQR declare war against Arverni

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMu

Because of my noobishness...
........
Oh and I dispatched the 4 to 5 generals from Rome to the front lines with a bunch of archers.

They died.
.....

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..

Bad, bad, bad, move....

Are you reading the unit descriptions??? Archers are Very WEAK and have a very s***ty range (exept for Eastern archers), if your going to use long range missile units use Slingers they have A LOT more range and killing power.

Thats 1 thing u did wrong... The other one was having a bad army composition. You should have a mix of Cavarly, Heavy Infantry, and a few Slingers (for western non-phalanx factions).

Later in the week I will dl your saved game play a few battles, take pics of them and show u a few tactics you can start taking into consideration.

In the meantime, this link should give you some examples of battle tactics, eventhough is mainly for KH it should help you,

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=70060

on the send page is a detailed battle, this should give you an idea of how to you Phalanx-based armies.

Why are you using so many Greek units? You're the Romans, not some cowardly, weak Greek faction. Put all of your money that you set aside for military spending to build your Polybian legions.

Of course, I'm not going to deny that the phalanx is good for holding the line against barbraians so you should have some of them too, but personally I'm much more comfortable with a Roman legion than mercenary Greeks. Try an army of Principes, Triarii, and a few Phalanx units. Oh, and don't forget slingers. The phalanx will hold the center line while the Principes will be the maneuverable reserves to direct wher they are need. Put the Triarii on the flanks because they can move faster than phalanx units and aren't as vulnerable to flanking. Also their spears will give them some degree of protection against cavalry. Use your own cavalry to flank and harass the enemy, though they are not for melees. If they are taking too many casualties, pull them out. Put your slingers behind the phalanx units. And finally, no more suicide missions with Generals.

Buiold a simple army, 2 hastaia, 2 pripies and a triia, then have a general and some cavarly, then get lots of slingers. Once you engage the gaulls move the slingers to there rear and target one unit at a time to make holes in there line, then continue untill they rout.

Slinger abuse is fairly pathetic. 1-2 units in a stack is OK, but more are both uneccessary, unrealistic (there were not huge numbers available at any one time) and even boring (there's little point in fighting an 'epic battle' where 75% of the entire enemy force is gunned down because the AI is poor at dealing with ranged attackers).

If that's the way you really want to play the game, you can do so, but it isn't the way it was meant to be played.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orb

Slinger abuse is fairly pathetic. 1-2 units in a stack is OK, but more are both uneccessary, unrealistic (there were not huge numbers available at any one time) and even boring (there's little point in fighting an 'epic battle' where 75% of the entire enemy force is gunned down because the AI is poor at dealing with ranged attackers).

If that's the way you really want to play the game, you can do so, but it isn't the way it was meant to be played.

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Exactly, in my book, its an exploit (don't take this as an insult), I tend to limit myself to at most in my armies 2 slinger units or less, and I tend not to lose...

I use four missile units in a stack. Slingers or not. The only time it becomes horrendously broken is when I'm shooting at tons of light infantry(at which point they will die anyways) or less than four units.

Whole stacks full of Celtic levy spearmen or Numidian Skirmishers and stacks of three Elite Carthaginian units are doomed against a half stack of crazed Romanii anyways.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Orb

Slinger abuse is fairly pathetic. 1-2 units in a stack is OK, but more are both uneccessary, unrealistic (there were not huge numbers available at any one time) and even boring (there's little point in fighting an 'epic battle' where 75% of the entire enemy force is gunned down because the AI is poor at dealing with ranged attackers).

If that's the way you really want to play the game, you can do so, but it isn't the way it was meant to be played.

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Seconded [/scruffy]

Hi Guys,

I've been lurking for a while now but this thread warrants a reply. I'm in my second Romanii campaign at the moment and my advise to you if you are in trouble is don't expand to fast, only open up another front if you are prepared for it. I was full swing into taking Iberia having the landbridge from Italy (Tolosa, Massalia etc) when I was attacked by the Averni, then the Aedui, then after that the Sweboz.

Have taken Iberia, and most of Gaul without too much problems but I'm attacked by at least 2/3 full stacks of Sweboz per turn.

I have 4 half stack legions on the bridges over the Danube just to stop them rolling over me! Each turn now takes at least 2 hours just fighting defensive battles alone! I have started to build up for a big push with fresh legions from the west. Were do they get the people from! I must kill 7000 per turn and they are still coming! And this has been going on for years!!!:hmg: (only have 2 units of slingers each stack by the way!)

Thanks to all responsible for Europa Barbarorum!

Just raid the provinces, get loads of spies, infiltrate the nearest setlement, attack destroy all buildings, retreat...
Or once you tae it, give the region to another faction. The Audie have been my buffer with the Arveni for many years... Now the arveni empire is cut in half, and the Auedi are becomming strong...

What's up with your economy??? On the screen you posted you are not building in most towns and you still have simple roads around in 220?!?

Build happyness and economical buildings everywhere, roads are your friends, get traderights and peace with carthage if you haven't done that yet.

When you capture a town like mediolanum and want to use it as a boarder town build a stonewall quickly. Always make sure your towns grow. If you don't have enough money to make plus per turn stop building in towns like Roma and Capua which are at a quite high level and pretty expensive anyways. Recruit as much as possible in Roma, Capua, Arretium which have high populations and let the other towns grow. I usually have at least 100.000 on my account by 240 on VH so shouldn't be a problem on medium. then you have enough money for mercs and armies.

Oh and stop wasting your generals!

I would build stone walls if it allows me.
It's a little difficult doing so when the town gets besieged every other turn.
Stone walls take at least 4 turns to build.
When the town get besieged, the construction stops.

Update:

I lost Milan.
Segesta and Patavium changed hands several times.
I got peace with Carthage, Trade Rights
Trade rights with Carthage, Ptolemies and Iberia.

War with Sweboz.
Took Iuva, this time I plan to hold it. with 2 consular armies in the vicinity.

I have 1 legion in a fort guarding the border with Arverni (ceasefired).

I'm starting to build again, with income of 10k per turn.

I have 1 general with cognomen of Germanicus. who is alive.

I have another general with cognomen of Germanicus who died.

etc.

It's difficult to build improved roads when the towns are only 400 in pop.

I would consider using spies to make your enemies cities rebel, in my current Romani campaign I have managed to get nearly the whole of Eqypt and Libya to kick out the AS, keeping them from wiping out Carthage and keeping a balance of power until I get involved later (forward strategic thinking!). If the Sweboz and Gallic tribes are attacking, try and distrupt their provinces, they will be preoccupied with retaking them, and if a neighbour takes them a war could start between them giving you some breathing space.

Never give up, never surrender!~:argue:

If you need to buy time to build walls, look for spots to build forts in the incoming path (choke points, if possible) and dump a sacrifice unit in the fort. Each fort can usually slow the incoming by two turns unless the army has good siege gear. A couple of those serially and you have your four turns. When desperate, I save some fractional units for this duty. A few men to put up a bit of a fight, slingers or archers of some sort will kill more than their own number, doesn't hurt to take a small bite out of the stack too.

I find playing EB I have a LOT more battle losses due to delaying tactics like this. No general is involved with the fort cases, but my HA delayers usually have a general and I don't see many negative traits (though I have seem some damage to morale in a case where the general in question was very young).

You have to love it when you've got a campaign that actually requires strategy and thinking! :2thumbsup:
I'm in a similiar position in my campaign, it's 230 and I'm fighting a war with Aedui over Cisalpine Gaul. They had me on the ropes, taking back my towns of Banonia and Segesta and even threatening Arretium, but I was able to repulse them and have them on the defensive, trying desperately to capture Mediolanium from them.

I know it's off topic (:hijacked: ) but I just thought I'd use this as a chance to say that this is a PERFECT example of why people should ALWAYS play slowly, role-play in EB. The game is balanced enough that even by 200 BC not too many factions are destroyed (some are just banished to islands and wastlands- but they might rise again) and you can actually fight a tough enemy. The AI actually fields tough, balanced armies given the chance and fields enough to actually threaten you! My navy has been running itself ragged trying to fight off the constant Macedonian invasions (full of phalangites with a handful of peltasts and occasional cavalry) from southern italy (which is TOTALLY undefended). I love the realism of it all- I NEED to win battles, because if I can't end the war quickly in Cisalpine Gaul, my navy will fail and I'll certainly lose southern Italy. But if I rush, I'll just wind up fighting the Aedui again later on- probably when I don't have 2 consular legions in Cisalpine Gaul). And Carthage is starting to leer at me with its navies...

if you want a fun, challanging and realistic campaign: SLOW DOWN, WAIT, AND PLAN!!! I pity those who reconstruct the Roman empire by 170 BC. Anyone can beat the AI, but if you take it slow, you'll actually get satifaction from your victories!

ok sorry...rant over:furious3:

I know what you mean, I finnished the first punit war the year it historical started, and felt bad, so I sent a consular army into gaul, I'd take a settlement from the arveni, and give it to the auedi, after a few turns of this they betrayed me, and kept doing it,so I took cisapline (sp) gaul.

Now both galic factions are equal, I haven't expaned outside taly (save sicilly and sardinia, corsia). And Pontos died, and the Ptolmies have one settlement left!

Macedonia took most of grese then headed north, surronding the getai empire on all fronts, and still they move one.

The Saka are down to one province, the samaritns are moving west, the partians (sp) and clinging on, and Bakiria and the AS are racing for the indian provinces.

And the lusitions Have most of spain, no rebels. Carthage is in spain aswell, and the arveni. Casse are taking more of britian.
My first full Polbian army is sailing to grease to stop the Macedonian empire at it's heart, or maybe to stop the AS.

When I do start keeping the provincies I take (in 220 I think) It will be hetic, the sweboz had some trouble expaning so I gave them alot of cash and now there scary...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMu

I lost Milan.

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Take it back and build a stone wall. It is important that you secure italy. You can spare one of those consular armies from Iuva to re-take and protect it.[/QUOTE]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DMu

I have another general with cognomen of Germanicus who died.

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I hope that was from natural causes and not in battle. Remember that you should not throw generals away. I know that he might have been in an un-escapeable seige battle with few units in the city, but that is why I always keep the armies of valued generals wherever they are. Make sure that they are always well guarded. Try not to take risks with your best generals in other battles too.

As soon as you take Mediolanum from the Sweboz then you will no longer be on the defensive. That might be the right time for a legion to make a strike into the sweboz homeland.

Hey DMu ive downloaded your saved game and had a quick few turns on it and im going to give some suggestions on it

-u have alot of men garrisoned in a city around 10-15 units in some cities i suggest having 5-6 units in each city 3 ranged uniots 2 or 3 miltia type unitsi usually go for 3 slingers and 2 Roarii or 3peltast and 2 miltia hopilites in greek italian areas only increase when needed in newly conquered territory

-this frees up alot of men to form new legions my legions usually consist of 4 hastati 3 principes and 2 triarii 2 cav and 4 mercs (optional) and 2 slingers + general with adequate military traits

-be defensive on the battlefield hold ground set defence on and let them come to you (choose ur battlefield for this flat terrain or better a hill on ur side of deployment) let them tire themselves out agaisnt the defensive wall of soldier by the time their worn out completly ur men should be only warmed up giving u the chance to route with flanking attacks by cav (fight bridge battles if ur attacked by the enemy at a bridge easy victory for little loss)

-set auto manage on cities to finicial and tell them to auto construct not auto recruit (intervene when u need to to get some roads built and happiness)

-Kill their generals crush their morale Morale is the key!!

-try to get a ceasfire with carthage offer map info money and trade rights hopefully the wont block ur ports for awhile give u some extra income

- also try taking cities along the coast of southern gaul like Massilia until u get to the spanish boader to get some developed cities and have a army guarding the pass through the alps towards germania

Hope this helps

How strong is your economy?

If you can afford to, build walls or military buildings, and then shift over completely to training units.

I was in a precarious situation at one point too. I had a large empire and I was at war with Aedui, Avernii, Sweboz, Lusotana, Pontus, Seleucia, and Sauromatae.

My economy was doing well enough that I had 3 buildings queued up in every city. I cut it down to two and I had so much cash left over I hired 3 full merc armies in the span of 2 turns.

Thus far I have wiped out (in this order) Lusotana, Avernii, Aedui, and I've pushed the Sweboz back far east of the Rhine. The entire Ionian coast is now under my control, except for Halicarnassus.

I am, however, having problems with pirates. But then again I never really focused on my navy until now.

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Try these rules (well, rules to me anyway):
-Focus on one enemy at a time
-Command you battles personally
-Skewer your building production and focus exclusively on training and hiring mercenaries. And the EB team was pretty good in pricing the merc's, as you generally get what you pay for (i.e. pay more for better troops). Well at least in my experience.




.

I downloaded your campaign and when I started it up I noticed one thing. You hardly had any Romans in your army most of them were locals.:inquisitive: Build more Polybians and you might survive the (sorry if this offends any body I'm trying to sound dramatic) barbarian invasion.:viking:

I did destroy those armies in Sardinia, but in some of them I still have 7 or so units, because otherwise the rebel.

Germanicus died. (siege battle.)

I have built an army in a fort guarding the pass of Milan into inner Italy, but then one unit of Arverni bypassed the pass, and I had to move the army out to its destruction.

I think I lost Segesta, but I took it back again, same deal with Segestica.

I did conclude a peace with Carthage and the others, but I'm at war with Sweboz and Arverni right now.

It wasn't so bad with only Sweboz, and I came close to Ak-Ink, but my army was driven back. Lost the entire full stack vs. one full stack of Germans.

Hey man I trying loading your saved game but got a CTD while loading.

I'll see if later today I can play a costume battle with the Romani before any of the reforms and a strong Sweboz army.