Does anyone think CA put out the Leak patch just to see if we like things.

If you really take the time to think about it, CA leaked the patch to other nations before the US, I think. Almost right off the bat, they notice that it wasn't working right and pulled it before the US was offered the update and now upon the message boards people are talking about what they like or dislike, what they would change, and what other ideas should be added.

So my query is, WAS THIS ALL PLANNED? Releasing a patch is expensive, you have to advertise doing it, pay for bandwidth and hope all works out. If this was a planned release, you don't have to advertise because everyone is stuck looking for it for a while, the bandwidth isn't going to be such an issue because people are learning how to download Torrent files and as far as it working out, they give themselves extra time to figure things out.

So, what does anyone else think about this?

I think that all patch discussion should be in the relevant thread

EDIT: Unlocked after discussion with OP

I'll find the post Caliban made at TWC, it was short but to the point.

EDIT: ah here it is:

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Your right, we wouldn't. The patch was leaked by a mirror site before the official release time and before it was pulled back, simple as that.

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http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...t=92539&page=3

And that's really all there is to it, imho

Why so dull? Conspiracies are fun!

Even knowing what everyone wrote and the quick warning I got with this, I honestly think it was on purpose. Honestly, I could see myself doing this if I was having delay problems with the patch getting done and the anticipation that we all shown for its delayed release. I do think CA is a great company and worth all the positive feedback that is deserved and we should all be patient for the upcomming patch. We all need to realize that the developers are human too and sometimes working on code can be a real hassle to find the one mispelling or synax error that makes a function not work right. I think that the prerelease of this patch gave CA ample feedback to really work on what they needed to work on and see what else needed to be done. Releasing patches, according to PCGAMER Magazine is an expensive and time costly event, they can't post a patch this week and send out another two weeks later, they aren't Counter Strike's Steam afterall.

Actually I also think it was probably done on purpose.

EDIT: Not that I care if it was.

Okay, this just hit me as I was trying to turn off my computer so I will hurry up and post it. I believe it was done on purpose because even if the patch was accidently given out by one Link/mirror site and all the others held it in, CA still had to give the updated patch file TO THAT LINK. Because it just came out in one link I think it was leaked on purpose for us all to try out. If I wasn't 100% sure something was 100% completed, I wouldn't have even compiled it into a single installation file until I was sure. Someone compiled up the files, gave it to the leak and then put a big hush hush order on it. Like I stated before, this adds so much publicity and interest. Odds are, someone in this forum board will go to work and mention this to a coworker which could get them interested in the game. Also, they stated that the patch was comming out on this day and it wasn't ready yet. By doing this, they dont' look like liars. I believe they thought they were done, found a few things prior to reliease, did a quick compile job (Hence the new CTD bug on siege maps) and rushed it out but kept it small so only the dedicated M2TW diehards that read these boards would even find it. This way, the diehards will test it out and report back here with our findings, CA will read them and implement what improvements they feel that it needs without wasting the HUGE amounts of resources it takes to release patch 1.3. This way the moderate to light M2TW players who play this game won't get burned and quit because of all the bugs with the leaked 1.2 as well.

Sorry for the long post.

I'll just repost what Caliban said:

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Your right, we wouldn't. The patch was leaked by a mirror site before the official release time and before it was pulled back, simple as that.

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We read it the first time Lusted, that doesn't mean that we believe it.

I am actually inclined to believe them however, that it was an accident. Either way we'll never know, so it really doesn't matter that much to me. Interesting point of discussion though.

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Originally Posted by Whacker

We read it the first time Lusted, that doesn't mean that we believe it.

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Exactly. They would never admit it would they? But yeah, I believe it was intentional. Fair enough.

yup

I think it is intentional as well.

Just look at these facts:

1. CA/Sega get less blaming on release a 1.2 patch full of bugs, since they "didnt" release it.

2. They even got the praise for their good attitude by not releasing a unfinished patch, after the game released after months.

2. CA/Sega get all the very useful feedback/bug report from the community, hence they can work onto that.

3. Much of the attention have divert onto playing/testing the unofficial 1.2 patch now, instead of blaming 1.2 patch didnt release on time.

It just seems CA won in all area after the "leak" 1.2 patch. :inquisitive:

I hope it was intentional. It was a good move, and a lot of us really appreciate it I'm sure. I hope they do it in the future as well.

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Originally Posted by Garnier

I hope it was intentional. It was a good move, and a lot of us really appreciate it I'm sure. I hope they do it in the future as well.

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Agreed. Those not comfortable with the idea of using an unofficial release can wait and the rest of us can be happy with the improvements.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

... I believe they thought they were done, found a few things prior to reliease, did a quick compile job (Hence the new CTD bug on siege maps) and rushed it out but kept it small so only the dedicated M2TW diehards that read these boards would even find it...

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that would explain why the leaked patch didn't work well with 1.1... ya onto somethin' there but it doesn't matter either way since I don't even have m2tw heheh

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I hope it was intentional. It was a good move, and a lot of us really appreciate it I'm sure. I hope they do it in the future as well.

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Doubt it, SEGA like to do all testing inhouse.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

Okay, this just hit me as I was trying to turn off my computer so I will hurry up and post it. I believe it was done on purpose because even if the patch was accidently given out by one Link/mirror site and all the others held it in, CA still had to give the updated patch file TO THAT LINK. Because it just came out in one link I think it was leaked on purpose for us all to try out.

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This is just poor logic, given what must happen for them to release the patch on time. You don't think CA/SEGA wait until the very last minute to try to send the patch file out to all the mirror sites, do you? That would be a horrible plan. They have no idea exactly how much bandwidth will be available at that time to each of their mirrors, and consequently the time to upload to them could vary by hours. If for some reason a vital line is down or heavily loaded, you could miss the posted release time by miles. Even worse if SEGA/CA themselves lost Internet service - it would make the entire release miss the mark. In order to be ready for the release, CA/SEGA undoubtedly had already sent the file to ALL the mirrors, with instructions when to release it: it's the only way to make sure it will release at the right time and without a hitch. Likely they did it the night before, reserving the balance of Friday before the release to make sure nothing horrible was wrong.

As for the one mirror releasing it, sure it's possible CA/SEGA told them to do so. I vote it rather unlikely though. Coordinating such massive releases never goes exactly as planned. It's likely the mirror misunderstood when to release it, or simply decided to ignore the instructions and release it early, perhaps at the request/demand of the local M2 players. I actually think timezone issues are the most likely reason this happened - it would be very easy to release based on local time instead of GMT for instance, or simply ignore the timezone the instructions use. Maybe The person who gave the mirror instructions didn't account for the local time, or incorrectly figured out what time to tell them to release at. A myriad of simple mistakes could lead the mirror to release at the wrong time, and IMO any one of those human errors makes far more sense than this intentional release theory.

I doubt it was intentional, for two reasons:

1) It complicates tech support, when you have a current patch version you're supporting, and also a leaked one that you won't support. A side effect is how it mucks up discussion of the game on forums like this one, and the official CA forum. Which game are we talking about now? And how many headaches will be caused by people who find the leaked patch and don't bother to install the official one when it comes out, for whatever reason? It's always in the game company's best interest to have everyone playing the same version, to the extent that's possible.

2) Here's the big reason -- the only way to get the leaked patch is through a torrent. I've seen several posts here from people who have been stumbling through the process of figuring out how to do that for the very first time. It should be obvious why this isn't something CA (or any game company) would want people to focus on, for finding their game content.

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Originally Posted by Zenicetus

2) Here's the big reason -- the only way to get the leaked patch is through a torrent. I've seen several posts here from people who have been stumbling through the process of figuring out how to do that for the very first time. It should be obvious why this isn't something CA (or any game company) would want people to focus on, for finding their game content.

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LOL. Funny, but definitely a good point. They could find a lot more "game content" than just a patch by learning to use torrents... which as you say is something no game company with a shred of sanity wants to promote.

Yeah, some good counter points so I am glad to read them but I still agree with my original post. As far as the "failed logic" post, I disagree though. How long does it take to upload a file online with a more expensive pipeline broadband access than what is available with home use. I think they were sending out the patch on Thursday and it was supposed to be released on Friday if what you are stating is true. Plus, if it was delayed due to a connection error, we all have experienced connection errors before and we all know not to blame CA for it, I think we would have forgave them.

Like I said, it was deliberate but I don't really care all that much. I think it was a great idea if it was and can't wait until Captain Fishpants gives his two cents or anyone from CA for that matter. But as a whole, I think the free publicity and error testing done here made more than up for it than what they would have had by delaying the patch yet another month and hearing us all complain about it.

A CA dev already gave his 2 cents, that's the post i quoted twice.

Oh, in a conspiracy we can't trust the conspirasers word. OF COURSE THEY WILL DENY IT. I believe even less now that this was an accident, thanks Luster.

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Originally Posted by Foz

As for the one mirror releasing it, sure it's possible CA/SEGA told them to do so. I vote it rather unlikely though. Coordinating such massive releases never goes exactly as planned. It's likely the mirror misunderstood when to release it, or simply decided to ignore the instructions and release it early, perhaps at the request/demand of the local M2 players.

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Your thinking two dimensional on this issue, I believe if they were going to release a patch on Friday, its compiled, tested, and ready to go on Monday at the latest. I don't believe they worked until the last minute and because of some quick error quickly called every mirror they could use and tell them not to release it. Plus, speaking on the dimension of time, if it was truly ready to go when the patch was leaked but it had a quick error, why is it taking so long to release the official 1.2 patch now. I truly believe that this patch is taking longer than expected and they wanted to keep people interested in a broken game.

Good work CA if this is true.

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if it was truly ready to go when the patch was leaked but it had a quick error, why is it taking so long to release the official 1.2 patch now.

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Erm, the passive ai is not a quick error, the remaining passive ai in sieges is one of the reasons they pulled the patch.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

Yeah, some good counter points so I am glad to read them but I still agree with my original post. As far as the "failed logic" post, I disagree though. How long does it take to upload a file online with a more expensive pipeline broadband access than what is available with home use. I think they were sending out the patch on Thursday and it was supposed to be released on Friday if what you are stating is true. Plus, if it was delayed due to a connection error, we all have experienced connection errors before and we all know not to blame CA for it, I think we would have forgave them.

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The point is that when you orchestrate something like this, you PLAN for those eventualities. SEGA has released enough things by now that they are more than prepared for such events. Uploading the file(s) ahead of time easily beats any potential upload problem, and as a result it is probably very safe to assume CA/SEGA do this.

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Like I said, it was deliberate but I don't really care all that much. I think it was a great idea if it was and can't wait until Captain Fishpants gives his two cents or anyone from CA for that matter.

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Originally Posted by Lusted

A CA dev already gave his 2 cents, that's the post i quoted twice.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

Oh, in a conspiracy we can't trust the conspirasers word. OF COURSE THEY WILL DENY IT. I believe even less now that this was an accident, thanks Luster.

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You just said you can't wait to hear two cents from anyone at CA, and then gave a completely ridiculous retort when Lusted pointed out that you already HAD heard from a CA dev. Just... wow.

By the way, it's really poor logic (again) to suggest that CA's explanation in any way means it's more likely they leaked the patch on purpose. According to your logic, anything CA says affirming or denying your theory just means it's more likely they did this on purpose, which obviously is an irrational way to look at the situation. You're rather like a cop who's convinced he found the guilty party, and is out to get a confession, never stopping to think he might be trying to force one out of an innocent man. Innocent men claim they're innocent just like the guilty ones do, Bud.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

Your thinking two dimensional on this issue, I believe if they were going to release a patch on Friday, its compiled, tested, and ready to go on Monday at the latest. I don't believe they worked until the last minute and because of some quick error quickly called every mirror they could use and tell them not to release it.

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What do you suppose CA would be doing between Monday and Friday, if they weren't working on the patch, hmm? They wouldn't prepare the patch and then let it sit there not doing anything - there's simply no reason to do so, especially when you already have angry fans demanding the thing. At the very least someone would be testing it during that time. It's also the norm in the software design industry for things to be in progress until the absolute last second, so it wouldn't surprise me at all if CA was still working on the thing on Friday morning.

If it was intentional then it was a stroke of genius. The "leaked" patch has had alot of positive effects on the community. Released a patch for it's (delayed) deadline without actually releasing a patch. Gave everyone the fixes they wanted without "officially" doing anything.

So the question is, do you believe they are that smart?

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Originally Posted by Noong

If it was intentional then it was a stroke of genius. The "leaked" patch has had alot of positive effects on the community. Released a patch for it's (delayed) deadline without actually releasing a patch. Gave everyone the fixes they wanted without "officially" doing anything.

So the question is, do you believe they are that smart?

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You all act like it was a spir of the moment idea, I am sure they were sitting down eating lunch on a break from coding and the idea just came up during a brainstorm. Yeah, to build a game like this requires huge amounts of intelligence, even if it is slightly broken. So, yeah, I believe it was purposely leaked.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

Your thinking two dimensional on this issue, I believe if they were going to release a patch on Friday, its compiled, tested, and ready to go on Monday at the latest.

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I'm going to make a wild guess here, and say that you don't work in the software industry... right? :inquisitive:

Ever heard of "crunch time"? Because code is so malleable... not like building a hardware widget on an assembly line... it's very common for code to be finalized at the very last minute before release.

This conspiracy theory, like so many, is clearly ridiculous.

A major corporation, such as Sega, leaks a game patch via a mirror site? Have you considered what the implications would be were incontrovertible evidence of this to be released? Not only would they be giving tacit approval of the use of torrent for the distribution of their software, they'd also be guilty of knowingly publishing completely false statements to their audience.

It is true that the current situation gives CA some free testing by the gaming community but so what? It's not as though they couldn't release patches 1.3, 1.4 and so on in the future. These too would have benefited from free user testing of the official 1.2 patch and they wouldn't require decidedly underhand business practices on the part of CA/Sega.

Anyone who thinks that a significant number of employees of Sega and CA (because this sort of decision would necessarily involve quite a few stakeholders) would be prepared to risk their careers and livelihoods by taking such an irresponsible decision can't have been involved in decision-making for a large, reputable company.

And who would propose this in the first place? Would a Sega suit phone his CA counterpart and blithely suggest that they colloborate in misleading their customers and undermining their own business positions? Or vice versa? That would be fun to explain to your boss: "Yessir, they are refusing to work with us in the future, effective from midnight tonight. The reason? Oh, I suggested we leak an unapproved piece of software and then lie to the global gaming community about it....."

Consider the PR value to Sega's competitors were this to be proven true. Consider the hit in credibility that Sega and CA's brands would take. Consider how weakened both would be in any future attempts to curb unofficial/pirated content. Consider how the real world works.

Like the previous discussions about how crappy CA are because the original release of the game was absolutely perfect in every way, this idea is just unrealistic and a touch hysterical. Trust me, CA and Sega employees would rather you carry on playing a buggy game for a week or two than that they lose their jobs and ruin their future career prospects.

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Originally Posted by diotavelli

Trust me, CA and Sega employees would rather you carry on playing a buggy game for a week or two than that they lose their jobs and ruin their future career prospects.

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CA and Sega would rather us play a buggy game for oh, four months now. That doesn't sound too professional either.

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Originally Posted by Quickening

CA and Sega would rather us play a buggy game for oh, four months now. That doesn't sound too professional either.

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I've been playing games that are well over four years old and still have bugs that haven't and never will be fixed. No game is bug free, ever.

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Originally Posted by Lupiscanis

I've been playing games that are well over four years old and still have bugs that haven't and never will be fixed. No game is bug free, ever.

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Yes but there are bugs and there are bugs. There are minor things and then there are fundemantal flaws in the game mechanics as seen in Med 2.

With due respect to everyone involved this is the most pointless debate IMHO. The only thing that matters is that they use the opportunity to improve the patch.

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Originally Posted by Quickening

Yes but there are bugs and there are bugs. There are minor things and then there are fundemantal flaws in the game mechanics as seen in Med 2.

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And those fundamental flaws are not always the easiest to fix. As an example, I play Everquest (moreso than I do M2tw in fact) and probably one of the largest bugs in the game is the haste rounding problem. Without going in to too much detail, because of the way the server ticks, it can generate problems with swing rates at certain haste %'s in combat.

This bug was being reported by players in January of 2006 and it's still not fixed, purely because its very difficult to come up with a method of fixing it. Perhaps the same difficulty lies in the problem with the passive siege AI as well as some of the other problems.

The leaked 1.2 patch has shown a lot of promise. Most of what I would consider game breaking has been fixed and some problems still remain, but its still a good patch (and will be even better when its hopefully officially released).

As to the OP, no, I don't think it was released deliberately.

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Originally Posted by Quickening

CA and Sega would rather us play a buggy game for oh, four months now. That doesn't sound too professional either.

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Um, yes: CA and Sega would rather have you and the rest of us play a buggy game for four months or considerably longer than release unofficial software and then lie about it. There's nothing unprofessional about that whatsoever.

Neither company would have wished to release a game with the problems that M2TW had/has. But both will accept that these things happen in business and now they'll be doing what they can to rectify it.

Clearly they're not moving fast enough for your liking but, again, I hardly think they're delaying it on purpose: not when they could be using the coding resource being used on patch 1.2 on something that will earn them some money.

You're unhappy about the state of the game. That's reasonable. To go from there to suggesting either company is unprofessional is daft.

If you had some evidence that CA knew the original release would make so many gamers unhappy but released it anyway, you'd have an argument; merely being of the opinion that they should have known is not the same thing.

If you had some evidence that CA could have released a working patch earlier than they have, you'd have an argument; merely being of the opinion that they should have worked quicker is not the same thing.

In business, things go wrong. Companies then work hard to put things right. Their customers are entitled to be annoyed in the interim but to slate the companies involved on nothing more than opinion and guesswork is unfair.

Well, I happen to know for a fact that it wasn't CA or SEGA that released patch 1.2 early.

It was Elvis.

From his secret Moon base.

So there.

Now please excuse me whilst I reattach my tinfoil hat.

Here's a point against the leaking on purpose:

It doesn't work with 1.1.
Leaking a patch which screws all 1.1 installs would clearly be a stupid idea.
Add to it that the casual gamer or user doesn't know how to get a torrent makes it even more obvious.
Nevertheless, CA would do good to check the feedback and improve their patch while they're still at it.

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Originally Posted by R'as al Ghul

Here's a point against the leaking on purpose:

It doesn't work with 1.1.
Leaking a patch which screws all 1.1 installs would clearly be a stupid idea.
Add to it that the casual gamer or user doesn't know how to get a torrent makes it even more obvious.
Nevertheless, CA would do good to check the feedback and improve their patch while they're still at it.

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Actually those reasonings are evidence for them leaking the patch. They know that only hardcore fans will know about and go to the effort of downloading the torrent and using the patch. This way the perception of CA by the wider audience is not damaged but they still get feedback. It's not an "official" release yet they still requested feedback from those using it. Why do that when by their own words the patch was not ready to be released in the first place?

But yes as someone else said it doesn't matter. The important thing is that they are working on it and Im very happy that the cannon/ballista tower bug is also due to be fixed. As it is, Im enjoying this leaked patch.

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Originally Posted by Zatoichi

Well, I happen to know for a fact that it wasn't CA or SEGA that released patch 1.2 early.

It was Elvis.

From his secret Moon base.

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Lies. He was on Atlantis at the time.

Now let me get back to watching my X-Files DvD set.

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Originally Posted by Quickening

Actually those reasonings are evidence for them leaking the patch. They know that only hardcore fans will know about and go to the effort of downloading the torrent and using the patch.

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You'd have a point if CA didn't say that they don't cater to hardcore players.
They would be stupid not to ask for feedback, now that it's widely discussed. It's beta testing for free. :shrug:

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Originally Posted by Quickening

Actually those reasonings are evidence for them leaking the patch. They know that only hardcore fans will know about and go to the effort of downloading the torrent and using the patch. This way the perception of CA by the wider audience is not damaged but they still get feedback. It's not an "official" release yet they still requested feedback from those using it. Why do that when by their own words the patch was not ready to be released in the first place?

But yes as someone else said it doesn't matter. The important thing is that they are working on it and Im very happy that the cannon/ballista tower bug is also due to be fixed. As it is, Im enjoying this leaked patch.

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But it is damaged because there will be a percieved bias towards those who know how to get the 1.2 patch (read: "hardcore"), and those who can't (read: "non-hardcore") will be a little irked because they don't have it.

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Originally Posted by Lupiscanis

But it is damaged because there will be a percieved bias towards those who know how to get the 1.2 patch (read: "hardcore"), and those who can't (read: "non-hardcore") will be a little irked because they don't have it.

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But casual gamers will never know about it. And even if they did, it's not CAs' fault if they don't know how to use torrents. Especially when it's for downloading an unofficial patch.

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Originally Posted by Quickening

But casual gamers will never know about it. And even if they did, it's not CAs' fault if they don't know how to use torrents. Especially when it's for downloading an unofficial patch.

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Casual gamers would get to know about it if someone within CA or Sega blew the whistle or the fact that the patch had been leaked intentionally was uncovered in some other fashion.

This conspiracy theory only works if you assume that CA and Sega have absolute confidence that there is no way that people could find out the patch was 'leaked' intentionally. Given that they couldn't have absolute confidence that that is the case, the conspiracy theory doesn't work.

Therefore discussions as to whether CA might benefit or not are entirely hypothetical.

The idea that CA suits would seriously consider letting hardcore gamers test an unofficial release of a patch, when doing so would involved giving tacit support to torrents and lying to their customer base, is laughable.

lets sum it up this way

who is cheaper to test the patch. a skeleton crew of expensively payed team from sega or a much larger group of consumers who will do it for free and not only that but do it in many times the number of sega testers.

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Originally Posted by mad cat mech

lets sum it up this way

who is cheaper to test the patch. a skeleton crew of expensively payed team from sega or a much larger group of consumers who will do it for free and not only that but do it in many times the number of sega testers.

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Or, more plausibly, let's sum it up this way:

Which is a better business strategy? Leave customers (who have already handed over their money) playing a bugged game whilst you get a working patch built or release a bugged patch that will be distributed by a mechanism you are publicly opposed to, lie about not having been authorised the release and risk getting loads of really, really bad PR as a result.

Put yourself in the shoes of the CA and Sega suits involved. If you did want to get the patch beta tested without officially releasing it, how would you go about it? Use forums such as the .Org to recruit a load of beta testers, building goodwill in the hardcore gaming community by your obvious desire to collaborate and involving no risk to your company whatsoever? Or follow the high risk strategy of leaking bugged software that will be distributed by torrent and then lying about it?

This thread has already come close to the flames a couple times, and appears to have reached the end of its usefulness anyway. (Plus, all this going around in circles makes me dizzy. :dizzy2: )


Closed.