Current test to see what happens if you don't intervien ANYWHERE.

It is common knowledge that nobody attacks the Aztecs but you, but playing as them in the Custom Campaign Mod I am trying to see who will come out on top without human interference.

I forgot what button does screenshots so can someone refresh me so I can post some but so far my conclusions are of the following.

After 80 turns - Britain, France, Poland, and a few others don't really do much. They build huge armies and have border scirmishes but don't lose or gain anything, the only thing I really noticed is that France kicked Britain out of the mainland.

Although, the Mongols (also playable and they start under Russia) expanded a little and the Timurids own the Holyland area and some of Egypt. The main shocker though is that Sicily was an Empire until the crusades hit it and now they only own the islands and Sicily. Venice on the other hand turned into a major Empire and they are #1 on the stats all the way down. They moved East and I don't think they will slow down. Oh, Milan shrank down some but as a whole, no faction has been eliminated yet.

hum let me see screen shots? :idea2: Print screen :laugh4:

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Originally Posted by Monsieur Alphonse

hum let me see screen shots? :idea2: Print screen :laugh4:

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I know that one, I was hoping for another way so I can do more than one at a time.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

It is common knowledge that nobody attacks the Aztecs but you, but playing as them in the Custom Campaign Mod I am trying to see who will come out on top without human interference.

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Well, the French sent out a diplomat who nodded at me one turn and left on a ship home, anyone else get the timewasted nod that accomplishes nothing because it doesn't come up with a diplomacy screen?

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Originally Posted by Budwise

Well, the French sent out a diplomat who nodded at me one turn and left on a ship home, anyone else get the timewasted nod that accomplishes nothing because it doesn't come up with a diplomacy screen?

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That usually indicates that they're trying to bribe you ~:)

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Originally Posted by Budwise

I know that one, I was hoping for another way so I can do more than one at a time.

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You can....in fact you are.....everytime you press 'PrintScrn' it stores the image in the folder \SEGA\Medieval II Total War\tgas as a .tga image the only task then is to take that image and convert it into a .jpeg for posting to the forum. I use Paintshop Pro for that task, but any decent graphic program should be able to do it.

The screen captures are named sequentially 001.tga, 002.tga, 003.tga....etc so you can press the button repeatedly during play and end up with a sequential picture history of the events in the game.

Alternatively, you could just download FRAPS which does the whole job including image capture.

The way things develop if you don't interfere differ in each campaign run. There is no set outcome to all the calculations the AI does each turn in different campaigns.

I played similarly as England recently, taking only the British isles and leaving everything else as is and blocking all sea routes to the isles with lone boats. AI just duked it out with each other as if I had never been there (except of course that spain, portugal, denmark and obviously scotland didn't get to expand onto the isles)

I've restarted a few times in an English campaign in order to get a hang of say the diff. between RTW and M2TW.

Campaigns can and will be diff. specially if you influence them, not even talking about influencing the campaign by say slaughtering France but in the way like I've grown used to see Denmark declare war on me pretty early on generally but with a bit of diplomacy I now have them on a "very good" standing as ally.

Last games Milan was a swooping force and Poland crumbles under the pressure of all factions surrounding it, but I've seen Milan get kicked of the map in 60-ish turns and also seen Poland have 12+ settlements in also ~60 turns, kicking Hongary and Russia of the map.

The results are always interesting to see, how the AI may develop without interfearance by the player, but wont tell you much more than where for instance problem-area's are, like area's where the AI quickly stalls.


G

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Originally Posted by Red Spot

and also seen Poland have 12+ settlements in also ~60 turns, kicking Hongary and Russia of the map.

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In my games, unless I'm one of their neighbors, poland ALWAYS forms a massive empire, from around magdeburg to Kiev/Ryazan/Sarkel, in the start, which then crumbles around gunpowder. It's probably due to those uber polish nobles in the start, until they lose their power to later units. I've modded my game by giving all AI factions double kings purse too, so they can afford a lot of them.

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Originally Posted by sapi

That usually indicates that they're trying to bribe you ~:)

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does it really? cause i've never seen any of my generals gain any traits while being in a town that has them doing that.............

Update:

The Danes are pretty much taking over Venice and the center of the Map. Besides that, NO MAJOR EMPIRES FORMING. I don't even feel like putting up the effort to post a screenshot at this time. The Mongols and Timorids were dooking it out for like, ONE FREAKING ROUND. They are the two heavy hitters on the board at the time, the Danes were only medium sized at that time. I was hoping to see who would win in that fight but the mongols (Something happened but I don't know what) lost interest and ceasefired. Since then, the Mongols lost half of their land to THE DANES and the Timorids are like a Middle East country, they just sit there being lazy and bake in the sun. They lost Jerusalem for two rounds TO THE DANES but quickly took it back. I am seriously thinking about interfearing.

One more thing, I am getting tired of all the Revolts that my American Island have been having. Apparently my people DON"T LIKE THEIR OWN RELIGION.

Well, playing in a previous H/H turkish campaign, I quickly seized Asia minor and blocked the 2 land bridges going in. I toggled fow off after many turns to see what has happened during the neutrality period and it seems HRE always gets squished much like my other campaigns before. It also seems Poland and Hungary expand very fast, combined, they occupy nearly 2/5 of the whole map. Most of the other factions mainly the northern europeans don't seem very active, they move around for a while and hit each other and then retreat and sit around..must be the cold air

In my campaigns the Spanish AI ALWAYS sucks. They never manage to gain even one single rebel settlement. Usually, they are wiped out by Portugal around turn 50.

Probably, it's got to do with them wanting to conquer Valencia, which they never manage. Soon, their economy is crippled and they don't stand a chance.

I find that rather annoying, because I expect Spain to grow stronger and be a worthy opponent in the late game. In my last HRE campaign, I gave them 5000/turn. But what did they do? They took the money and became the richest faction, never even thinking about fielding an army and expand.

Damn AI! Move it!:whip:

I think the different development in multiple campaigns depends in a large part on where rebels spawn. The faction whose income is crippled and which has to fight brigands with its armies will have a hard time facing a better off enemy.

For example, France could develop into a powerhouse soon, but if there are brigands, Milan, Portugal and England will beat them to key rebel provinces.

Well, the only contribution I've got to this is my experience trying a game as the mongols once.

I was using the hotseat method, which, for those who don't know, effectively puts the game on autopilot for the hundred or so turns until your faction emerges.

Looking at the map using toggle_fow, I found, like others here, that the Spanish had expanded to take most of France; and the poles to take most of russia - but, as had been noted, petty skirmishes were all that had happened in britain, denmark and italy.

Pity ~:(

It appears a lot of people really hate the passive A.I. (which is of course normal!).CA really has to work on it , i love tw games, but it's really a fun-disturbing issue

I think it depends on the circumstances, personally I'd rather it did nothing than did something stupid.

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Originally Posted by Didz

I think it depends on the circumstances, personally I'd rather it did nothing than did something stupid.

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Yeah, I agree but I think it should have what it has now but an extra faction or two turning their France into Napolians Conquest or Hitlers Third Reich and becoming the Empire that the world must go up against.

If that were possible, I wish someone would program it so that the faction taht turns evil gets a whole lot more money per turn and other bonuses but it also makes the smaller factions gang up on it. That would be sweet. It would be even better if they would factor in the Human player on his playing style and leave you alone if you do nothing much but all gang up on you if your a Supreme Allied Commander.

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Originally Posted by Budwise

It is common knowledge that nobody attacks the Aztecs but you, but playing as them in the Custom Campaign Mod I am trying to see who will come out on top without human interference.

I forgot what button does screenshots so can someone refresh me so I can post some but so far my conclusions are of the following.

After 80 turns - Britain, France, Poland, and a few others don't really do much. They build huge armies and have border scirmishes but don't lose or gain anything, the only thing I really noticed is that France kicked Britain out of the mainland.

Although, the Mongols (also playable and they start under Russia) expanded a little and the Timurids own the Holyland area and some of Egypt. The main shocker though is that Sicily was an Empire until the crusades hit it and now they only own the islands and Sicily. Venice on the other hand turned into a major Empire and they are #1 on the stats all the way down. They moved East and I don't think they will slow down. Oh, Milan shrank down some but as a whole, no faction has been eliminated yet.

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You haven't encountered any rebel units popping up? Or do you not get rebel 'armies' playing as the Aztecs??

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Originally Posted by Kansas Bear

You haven't encountered any rebel units popping up? Or do you not get rebel 'armies' playing as the Aztecs??

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Uh, its odd that you said that, NO REBEL ARMIES at all. I forgot all about that. Of course not having a Mine/Diplomat/fun buildings/Any special Buildings/ kind of upset the upsides to rebels.

Just over 200 turns and FINALLY some empires are forming. It turns out I missed the message about war breaking out between the Timurids and Mongols but the Timurids are cleaning up. Russia and Danes are doing quite well as well. Only one faction was eliminated but two others are very close with only a city or two left and out of bordom, I accepted trade rights between the Papal States and Milan. So, I guess the integrity of this test ended a few turns ago.

https://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b...st/Empires.jpg

Urrrggg, the results are

https://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b...st/Endgame.jpg

I am quite disappointed that no faction really became huge until near the end. I am also annoyed that NOT A SINGLE FACTION wanted to send an army toward me at all either, I only saw three diplomats during my time in America and as a whole, I feel that I wasted time.

Well thats disappointing. WHEN YOU ARE OUT OF TURNS LEFT, YOU CAN STILL PLAY LIKE NOTHINGS DIFFERENT. Because this is the case, WHY TELL ME HOW MANY TURNS I HAVE LEFT?

I will repost this in a seperate thread but for those who like to turtle, there is no hurry AT ALL for finishing your objectives in time.

Budwise,maybe you should continue your testing then.I would like to see how the timurids are doing in let's see 100 turns.Maybe they succeed in getting a very big empire?

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Originally Posted by Robin From Da Hood

I don't agree with you.CA must work on the AI because worse than this can't be.

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Sorry, I didn't explain myself very clearly.

I agree that CA need to do a lot of work on the AI routine, particularly the Campaign AI, and it needs to fix the flaws in the campaign game design too.

My point was that I would rather have an AI that decides to do nothing, (is passive), than one that is forced to do stupid things like it does at the moment. The current AI is not really an AI at all but an AS (artificial stupidity) as it is forced to perform stupid actions just to avoid being accused of being passive.

Hence, you get generals trying to assault castles, and dismounted knights is full plate trying to chase archers round the map. Combating a passive AI by turning it into an AS is NOT an improvement in my opinion.

; >>>> start of diplomacy section <<<<

faction_standings england, -0.2 france, scotland
faction_standings england, -1.0 slave
faction_standings scotland, -0.2 england
faction_standings scotland, 0.2 france
faction_standings scotland, -1.0 slave
faction_standings france, -0.2 england
faction_standings france, 0.2 scotland
faction_standings france, -1.0 slave
faction_standings venice, -0.2 byzantium
faction_standings venice, -0.45 milan, hre
faction_standings venice, -1.0 slave
faction_standings milan, -0.4 venice, hre
faction_standings milan, -1.0 slave
faction_standings hre, -0.2 poland
faction_standings hre, -0.45 venice, milan
faction_standings hre, -1.0 slave
faction_standings poland, -0.2 russia, hre
faction_standings poland, 0.2 hungary
faction_standings poland, -1.0 slave
faction_standings hungary, -0.2 byzantium
faction_standings hungary, 0.2 poland
faction_standings hungary, -1.0 slave
faction_standings spain, 0.2 portugal
faction_standings spain, -0.85 moors
faction_standings spain, -1.0 slave
faction_standings sicily, -0.2 moors
faction_standings sicily, -0.45 byzantium
faction_standings sicily, -1.0 slave
faction_standings denmark, -1.0 slave
faction_standings portugal, 0.2 spain
faction_standings portugal, -0.85 moors
faction_standings portugal, -1.0 slave
faction_standings papal_states, -0.45 hre
faction_standings papal_states, 0.2 england, portugal, poland, hungary
faction_standings papal_states, -1.0 slave
faction_standings moors, -0.2 sicily
faction_standings moors, -0.85 spain, portugal
faction_standings moors, -1.0 slave
faction_standings byzantium, -0.2 hungary, venice
faction_standings byzantium, -0.45 sicily
faction_standings byzantium, -0.85 turks
faction_standings byzantium, -1.0 slave
faction_standings turks, -0.65 egypt
faction_standings turks, -0.8 byzantium
faction_standings egypt, -0.6 turks
faction_standings egypt, -0.6 slave


Erm that's why no one is interested in attacking you. You painted your self out of the picture. Firstly the new world hasn't been discovered (which makes it impossible to get to you) and secondly your faction starts with clean rep among others which have had time to build up hate against each other. As to why no faction dominates the map? Why, we all cry holy phrases like "historical" on every turn but if you read yor history of the period you might understand why no one faction takes over the entire map. Kudos to CA

Kudos to CA for not giving us a worthy opponent?



historical accuracy is one thing, game balance something else. I take good gameplay over historical accuracy any day...

Judging from the screenshots, no faction seems to be close to even have 20 provinces.

And as people have proved, a player can have 20 provs in what, 20 turns?

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Kudos to CA for not giving us a worthy opponent?

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Like the Hojo hordes?

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Originally Posted by Kadagar_AV

Kudos to CA for not giving us a worthy opponent?



historical accuracy is one thing, game balance something else. I take good gameplay over historical accuracy any day...

Judging from the screenshots, no faction seems to be close to even have 20 provinces.

And as people have proved, a player can have 20 provs in what, 20 turns?

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Kudos to CA for creating a historical simulation which, for whatever reason, gives us a vaguely historical outcome.

You want an overall AI that creates a counter-reaction to your attempts at world domination.

I want an overall AI that generally stays within the parameters of history.

You critcise the overall AI for this; I commend it.

Go figure.

teakle, if this was a historical simulator, and if the goal of the game would be bound by historical accuracy I'd agree with you 100%.

You claim the game gives us a historicly correct outcome, that's simply wrong, the whole aim of the game is to build a world dominating empire (with, say, the danes!!). I know I know, you meant the example in this post, but that's not how the game should be played, remember (you know, those "victory conditions" the game sets)?

I don't know how you play, maybe you struggle keeping your initial borders secure without houserules, and maybe you struggle keeping your kingdom as big as is historicly correct, but you dont seem retarded.

My point is that CA needs to decide what way to go.... historical simulator or wargame, the combination just isnt working.

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Originally Posted by Gaius Terentius Varro

; Erm that's why no one is interested in attacking you. You painted your self out of the picture. Firstly the new world hasn't been discovered (which makes it impossible to get to you) and secondly your faction starts with clean rep among others which have had time to build up hate against each other. As to why no faction dominates the map? Why, we all cry holy phrases like "historical" on every turn but if you read yor history of the period you might understand why no one faction takes over the entire map. Kudos to CA

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I figured that, its fine not to be attacked because thats my goal.

I didn't want to intervien anywhere and thats my point of this thread.