Everytime i see someone post that they're playing as Rome i see people boo'ing and whatnot. What gives? :juggle2:
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Everytime i see someone post that they're playing as Rome i see people boo'ing and whatnot. What gives? :juggle2:
They're roman?
Sorry:shame:
Probably because they conqured everyone else, so anyone who likes just about any other faction by default hates the romans.
I dislike them because they were only lucky,nothing more.And noone likes those who conquared the world.
ONLY LUCKY??
I think not. They were persistent, well organized, lucky, and (after ~mid 2nd century BC) very rich.
But I prefer to play other factions because I like to sack Roman cities.
their fat.
Not true.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik of Sindh
Luck did play a part, but the Romans didn't just "get lucky".
More likely.Quote:
Originally Posted by Malik of Sindh
I personally, for example, tend to side with the smaller states/losing empires (the Celts, Byzantines, or for example, Finland in the Winter War [nationalistic feeling aside]).
It was surely not pure luck...
I guess the main problem is that until mid 20th century (and even later) classic historians viewed the Roman Republic and classical Athens as the one and only great cultures or something like that (you know what I mean) and other cultures were seen as "minor" or "barbaric" when indeed each culture has it's own interesting and outstanding features.
now some people seem to react a bit sulky even and try to play the game the other way round ("Romans suck, they stole everything there ever was and were soooo cruel and everyone else was nice and so on and so on").
In the end each culture had its hights and lows and none is better and if you look at ROmans and Greeks for example they both benefited greatly from each other.
Just out of curiosity, how exactly did the Greeks "benefit" from the Romans? :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by L.C.Cinna
By getting conquered? :beam:
i guess its a running joke between a lotta the guys here. nothing more to it really.
I have nothing against the early roman republic, which I in fact admire in many aspects - primarily their policy and concept of casus belli and bellum iustum. I do however dislike the late roman republic and the entire roman empire era, because of their moral decline (in terms of foreign politics), undermining of the concept of bellum iustum and casus belli, and the consequences of that - leaving Europe as a big mess. I also dislike the roman propaganda that still has left some traces today. Mainly two things: the disrespect for the other cultures of the time, giving them an image of brutality and primitivity, while Rome takes the credit for inventions that barbarians really came up with (such as soap, desert irrigation, aqueducts, good roads, quincunx, scutum, gladius, pilum, being protective to arts science and philosophy and "saving the works of the greeks from the barbarians", taking all credit for the greek philosophy, sometimes taking all the credits for everything that any person living in rome - whether roman or not - achieved, etc). The other thing is the constant curse over Europe that the aspiration to "create a new Rome" has been.
Rome is a good illustration of a simple point: that a comparatively good-hearted and morally superior faction can gain strength by applying this systematically - but not to an exaggerated extent. But also a proof that when it gets too powerful, it doesn't matter how good it was when it was weaker - enough power corrupts any empire.
*pops out of lurking*Quote:
Originally Posted by blank
*runs off and hides again*Quote:
All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?
Freedom from the Macedonian yoke. Albeit they traded one master for another, but apparently the Rome was preferable to them as they asked for their assistance. More importantly, the ceaseless warfare finally came to an end.Quote:
Originally Posted by blank
Not to mention the benifets of Roman culture and technology, much of which was simply taken from the Greeks and improved upon by the Romans.
But I'm not going to get involved in another "pro-Rome vs anti-Rome" debate. Getting a little tired of them tbh.
This is the first one I've seen here. TBH, I have to admit that the romans did bring one, and just one advantage to the greeks. But I have to admit it was a very important one. And that was stability.
monty python teaches us so muchQuote:
Originally Posted by Zangor
QFT!Quote:
Originally Posted by quackingduck
Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the :furious3: Judean People's Front! :laugh4:
I think many times it boils down to 2 things: A cultural component (they beat up my ancestors) or an attempt to view them through 21st century morals and ethics.
So from what i can gather, people hate Rome because:
They conquered the world
They perfected inventions and then passed them off as their own
They became the most corrupt and 'immoral' people in history
That's really no reason to hate them. Anybody that has some form of power in a large and powerful nation becomes corrupt. Look at Alexander, he thought he was a god, exterminated many innocent people to make sure there was no rebellion, and carved an empire bigger (or just as big), richer and potentially more powerful than Rome ever was, at least it would have been if he could have held it together instead of dying and giving chunks to his generals, who went on to squabble and kill each other until they were destroyed by Rome. :laugh4: And yet everybody loves Alexander.
Anybody in those days that carved an empire even half the size and half as powerful as Rome would have become greedy, corrupt and 'immoral', it's the human way. Even in todays world, where we are considered to be more civilized than ever before, there are still extremely corrupt people in government. Even in the west which is pretty much the most developed part of the world the governments are just as corrupt as any Roman emperor ever was, perhaps with the exception of Denmark which is just lovely altogether. :yes:
All this is no reason to hate them, anybody else would have been just like them.
Rome was the player controlled faction in history and thus Rome is the most popular faction to play as EB... Do you see what I'm getting at :dizzy2: :clown:
If this was the case, how could mankind pass 14 AD? And how could Rome finally crumble?~:confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Redmeth
Good one, Dayve...I see another fat thread comin' on...can't wait to see how it unfolds...
Well, when you get bored of RTW you started playing BI and you played some as the Goths, then as the Franks and then went to MTW or M2TW and you started fooling around with the factions. The truth is out there... :yes:Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus
I think certain people hate the Romans for the same reason people hate the Yankees, the Raiders, and the Lakers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurio Nixalsverdrus
because the add-on was bugged
Right on, MAA...I agree completely.
You see so much of the same nonsense when browsing through some of the WWII sim sites and somebody talks about their experiences as playing the "German faction" (so to speak) and how that relates to their own knowledge of the strategic and tactical elements of the German war machine of the early- to mid-1940s. Unfortunately, they all too often are met with vile rants against them, labeling them as "Nazi fanboys" -- supposedly nothing more than Hitlerjugend wanna-be's that were born a generation or two late in history.
It all seems to be a bit silly to me...I'm personally fascinated by the way in which the average German soldier dealt with the experience of battle on the Eastern Front in the 1940s, and I'm now fascinated -- thanks to RTW and EB -- in a similar understanding of the Roman soldier's experiences in battles across the sands of Africa, the forests of Germania, and the steppes of Asia. Does that make me a "Roman fanboy"?? I think not!
I just admire the eastern greeks and Pontus especialy (ok, I know they not strictly greek) far to much to ever like the romans. Aknowlodge their greatness, yes, like them no, hate them, no, say I hate them to see how others will respond, defininately.:beam:
Get shouted at afterwards by bovi, probably.:clown:
LOL!!!
nah I don't hate the Romans, and I don't think most people here "hate" the romans.
Now to answer Dayve question.
I believe the persieved hostility is due to a the many threads that sprung up a month where people were whining about:
-why are my legions not Uber
-why are my legions taking so many casualties against Classical Hoplites
-why can't my legions beat a phalanxs in a frontal assult
-etc, etc...
and when members and experieced EB players explained they just ingonored those posts and whinned some more.
But it didn't stop there the whinning got so bad the EB team members just lost it and started telling to those people to F*** off! Something they RARELY do.
As a result there is still a knee jerk reaction to remind (sometimes in a not so friendly matter) those who post "praise the all mightly Romans" type threads that the Romani were NOT the uber mofo's they are made out to be.
You mean Real Madrid, Manchaster United and A.C Milan, right? I mean I could hate them like that, but I don't have anything agains the Lakers. Who are the Raiders?Quote:
Originally Posted by MarcusAureliusAntoninus
People hate Manchester United? Everyone in China loves them... I assumed the world did too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Burakuku
actually in Italy the most hated team is Juventus FC :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Burakuku
You mean people actually like Italian teams? They're the dirtiest teams out there, they'd murder the entire opposing team the night before to assure a win if they thought they could get away with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by beatoangelico
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Burakuku
are you not american?
.
Surprisingly there are a handful people out there who are not American. :laugh4:
As a matter of fact, the ORG is a Dutch colony. :stare:
.
lol well i knew that! I was asking him personally because the raiders are an american football team, so if he wasnt he prly wouldnt know what MAA is talking about.
its a case of tall poppy syndrome. Romans were the best at everything, so naturally everyone nowadays hates them. Its pathetic and ridiculous. Its just immature kids that dont actually know anything about history, and cant appreciate the real accomplishments of the Romans. Il just pick ONE example...Concrete. Where would we be without that invention. Several hundred technological years behind i tell ya that much.
.
Hehe... I was trying a joke. Can scarcely make them work. :shame:
.
uhm...... I see where ur going but concrete is bad example though. With the fall of rome the knowledge of concrete was lost until it was "rediscovered" by the 1700's by a British scientist-guy.
Many things were lost with the fall of the Roman empire, concrete is probably one of the less important of them.
I never knew art of conjuring concrete was not known to Byzantines. Intresting. How so?
Oh, I see it, in fact they were greeks and thus underdeveloped in comparison to Ze "Best at everything" uber-romans.
And, since the discussion went this way, please tell me about the rest of rome glorious achievements that these filthy pervert greeks somehow managed to forget or diminish.
Thanx in advance
First I felt anger towards this post, but then I just felt sorry for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudocaesar
Laughable.
Personally I don't play as Romans because I already know how that scenario turns out, so it's boring to me. I play EB to imagine how history might have been different. I do think that the Roman faction in EB was marvelously done though.
I dont play Rome because I like pretending my faction leader has turned a small and doomed nation around into a military machine and later a great empire. I already know Rome conquers the world so it's hard to role-play or imagine that part.
The Romans are too easy.
I hate Rome because of the language. I mean, who replaces U with a V? Come on!
And the popular front of Judea! ~:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Starforge
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gb_qHP7VaZE
Some Greeks might have found an end of the about 500 years (or more) of constant state of war in Greece desirable?Quote:
Originally Posted by blank
Thank you Sarcasm. :bow:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasm
Now I don't need to bother typing that.:beam:
Mash the dirty red scum! Kick 'em in the teeth where it hurts! Kill! Kill, kill! Filthy bastard Rommies! I hate 'em! I hate 'em! Aaaargh! Aaaargh! *Shakes fist*
Those of them who happened to be citizens of Korinth, did not had enough time to enjoy it, compliments goes to Lucii Mummii ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by konny
(Not that I feel any simpathy towards EB Korinthoi, in my KH campaign they used to be the most "gifted" of all my precious family)
If i'm not mistaken it was them who actually replaced V partially and added the U to the alphabet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaatu
Not as easy as in 0.81.Quote:
Originally Posted by Morte66
Yes actually they did seem to like warfare between cities. God knows why, but they did.Quote:
Originally Posted by konny
To make an example, let's say a few European countries start a war. No genocide or much civilian casualties, just scrapping. By your logic the best solution would be if China came and conquered Europe. And then the Europeans should be happy for it :dizzy2:
:laugh4: yeah clearly you are very mature and unbiasedQuote:
its a case of tall poppy syndrome. Romans were the best at everything, so naturally everyone nowadays hates them. Its pathetic and ridiculous. Its just immature kids that dont actually know anything about history, and cant appreciate the real accomplishments of the Romans. Il just pick ONE example...Concrete. Where would we be without that invention. Several hundred technological years behind i tell ya that much.
Utlimately, the Romans weren't really worse than most of their competitors; they were just better at mass-murder, mass-slavery and mass-rape than them. Thus, to modern sensibilities they appear to be a bunch of bloodthirsty fascist scumbags, but in fact, most of humanity has been for most of its history a bunch of bloodthirsty fascist scumbags. Nowadays, even most of the 'civilised' people who aren't bloodthirsty fascist scumbags are actually repressed bloodthirsty fascist scumbags.
Now, I still prefer Carthaginian perfidy to Roman perfidy. R0M4nZ R t3h SuXX0rz!!!
Yeh well, im sure i could have planned out my post a bit better, looking back it is pretty crap. But it gets to a certain point where you do just get sick of people constantly bagging out Rome for no decent reason whatsoever. You see it all the time, on every RTW forum around, so it does get annoying. If you can provide a valid reason for hating the Romans then be my guest and provide it for us all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarcasm
Valid is, unfortunately, a relative term. What is valid for one might not be for somebody else...Quote:
Originally Posted by pseudocaesar
Well, there is a reason why a lot of Europeans don't like the US.....Quote:
Originally Posted by blank
It's like Rebels Vs Empire in Star Wars. People want to kick Imperial ass.
Actualy, I support the imperials in star wars.
The rebels have such a ridicoulously and impracticaly fluffy view of the universe. The imperialists are realists. The rebels on the other hand don't seem to appreciate that only the power is power, and no matter how much honour you have and how noble your goals, the universe doesn't give a damn.
It always annoys me so much in books and films when the good guys win from what is to any intelegent person a clearly untenable position, with a logistical nightmare, and yet they resoundingly and over-whelmingly crush the bad guts, with mimimum casualties, except for one or two carefuly chosen characters, who you know are as good as dead five minutes into the film/50pages into the book. God, why can't the bad guys win for once? At least it would provided a bit of variation.:beam:
There is no good or bad in history.
Just different shades of ugly...
Wow, I'm making a bad habit of actually posting. I'm ruining my amazing lurkiness! I've actually made more than one post in the same thread now! What's next, actually posting on a regular basis?!:furious3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharnakes
Anyway, try reading 1984. It has a suitably depressing ending.
That's funny, I was just thinking about the exact same book when I read that post.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zangor
Or you could treat Star Wars Episodes I-III as a seperate entity from the other films. Then a scheming Palpatine wins.
1984 is good for that, but it was the result of Orwell's anti-Stalinist political view (although he supported communism in the Spanish Civil War). It was a Warning. As was Animal Farm, which had a similarly dark ending.
In Catch-22 the protagonist (would you call Yossarian a hero? I would, but, yannknow...) escapes, but the bad side of authority is still in authority.
Episodes 1-3 are separate. The first trilogy was made by a visionary, episodes 1-3 were made by a capitalist. :wall:
Am I sufficiently off topic? :beam:
EDIT: One of the things that needs to be emphisied about 1984 is that it isn't just about Stalinism. It is a warning to all peoples in all places. If you follow current US politics, the book is extremely frightening. But now I'm off topic in an area that isn't permitted in the forum.
Imperials have cool walkers and stormtroopers, rebels are... rebel scum :whip:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharnakes
I usually tend to side with the "evil" side because in most cases the "good" guys are too naive, spineless and/or gay *cough*Luke Skywalker*cough*
I always wanted to be a jedy but it seems I am unable and I always turn sith. :embarassed: And it's women's fault! :wall:
I agree realy, especially if you are talking for the Western Europe and The Western Roman Empire... Eastern'r Romans never lost that knowledge. Even today it is belived that after the finall fall of Constantinopolis (in 1453) ..Quote:
Originally Posted by Dayve
Renaissance in the catholic world begun manly in the Mediterranean Cities.. Cities that have represented the route of the books distributions from ancient times (found in Constantinopolis) that Turks gave or sold out to Italian city-states after 1453... It is realy one historic fact..
Even Columbos went west after inspiration he gained by reading an ancient script originatet from Ravena in 6 century .. In time while Eastern Roman's reclaimed Italy (that script came from a greek monarch)
but this is no time or place for such discussion ..
Can anyone help me how to add a link and a picture that would be like avatar and stand down after all my posts? I would like to add the link to the EB -ALex thread and some nice picture... I don't know how!?:help:
First make the picture, then host it to image shack or the like, then edit the link for hotlink into your sig. (done in the usser cp).
Oh... thanks alot.. but how do I refer people to use the picture as a link?
u ain't the only one :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by Emperor Burakuku
Do you mean make the pic in the sig into a link that takes you to the mod page?Quote:
Originally Posted by Maksimus
If thats what you mean, sorry but I dunno.
I know none 'bout none and I'm not afraid to admit it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palasta
As far as I know this happened in Claudiu's time, third emperor if I remember correctly. No, fourth... Yes I think so. Octavian, Tiberius (also my name), Caligula... Claudius... Hmm I think I am right. And yes, he added U to the alphabet. What about it?Quote:
Originally Posted by Palasta
P.S To NeoSpartan: women are evil dude.
People constantly diss the Romans but wait a minute....when you guys first bought this game BEFORE even knowing about EB....what was the title...ummm ugh..
Rome: Total War?
Yeah thats it...and I believe the Romans were the default faction to play.
Hmmm....interesting!
To be fair, Tapanojum, anyone who had access to the internet and a passing interest in the game would probably have known that there were a number of other playable factions - they could well have bought the game with a fierce hatred of Rome already brimming in their hearts.
Me, I've been hankering to play as the Romans again since the days of playing Centurion(TM) as a wee lad. "Submit now, or be destroyed". I can still remember the drums sounding as the battle began...
"What does everyone have against Rome?"
Nobody likes cheaters, i guess.
To be fair, history has very few honest players.
OK... Repeating myself but if I need to, I need to. Like I said before, I am tired of people saying: Romans were cheaters, Greeks were gay, Persians loosers, etc, etc, etc. Some of them are our ancestors and some ppl get offended by this attitude. Not all Romans were bad, it's nothing wrong with homosexuality, Persians were a great empire and they proved it by rebirth, etc. What is wrong with the human race? Can't we just get along. And I don't think it's about english.
...
I think for a lot of people its because of their experiences playing vanilla. In that you had THREE Roman factions, as if one wasnt already tough enough, and every single campaign you played you would always have to fight them sooner or later. Many is the time I went to all sorts of lengths just to kill those three factions and give Italy to someone else, so it wouldnt be ROMANS ROMANS ROMANS plastered all over the map down the line.
Makedones were Hellenic people...so did the Hellenes liked the persians when they finansed the Peloponnesean war? For "Freedom from the Athenian yoke"?Quote:
Originally Posted by TWFanatic
Yes, the rebels in SW are definitely in need of an internal revolt to overthrow the joke of a leader and leadership they have, since they're risking the safety of all who support the rebel cause. I still support their faction more than the tin-cans that the other faction is :laugh4:Quote:
Originally Posted by blank
Like many others have said, I dislike Rome because my favourite factions i.e. Iberians, Macedonians, Carthaginians etc were defeated and ruled over by Rome.
+Nobody really supports the favourites, everyone loves an underdog
++They're really fun to massacre with big germanic axes
My answer is biased: Rome sucks because Carthage is the sh*t.