What does everyone have against Rome?

[Dayve]

Everytime i see someone post that they're playing as Rome i see people boo'ing and whatnot. What gives?

[Pharnakes]

They're roman?


Sorry


Probably because they conqured everyone else, so anyone who likes just about any other faction by default hates the romans.

[Malik of Sindh]

I dislike them because they were only lucky,nothing more.And noone likes those who conquared the world.

[Kromulan]

ONLY LUCKY??
I think not. They were persistent, well organized, lucky, and (after ~mid 2nd century BC) very rich.


But I prefer to play other factions because I like to sack Roman cities.

[Spoofa]

their fat.

[The General]

I dislike them because they were only lucky,nothing more.

Not true.

Luck did play a part, but the Romans didn't just "get lucky".

And noone likes those who conquared the world.

More likely.

I personally, for example, tend to side with the smaller states/losing empires (the Celts, Byzantines, or for example, Finland in the Winter War [nationalistic feeling aside]).

[L.C.Cinna]

It was surely not pure luck...

I guess the main problem is that until mid 20th century (and even later) classic historians viewed the Roman Republic and classical Athens as the one and only great cultures or something like that (you know what I mean) and other cultures were seen as "minor" or "barbaric" when indeed each culture has it's own interesting and outstanding features.

now some people seem to react a bit sulky even and try to play the game the other way round ("Romans suck, they stole everything there ever was and were soooo cruel and everyone else was nice and so on and so on").

In the end each culture had its hights and lows and none is better and if you look at ROmans and Greeks for example they both benefited greatly from each other.

[blank]

In the end each culture had its hights and lows and none is better and if you look at ROmans and Greeks for example they both benefited greatly from each other.

Just out of curiosity, how exactly did the Greeks "benefit" from the Romans?
By getting conquered?

[Long lost Caesar]

i guess its a running joke between a lotta the guys here. nothing more to it really.

[Rodion Romanovich]

I have nothing against the early roman republic, which I in fact admire in many aspects - primarily their policy and concept of casus belli and bellum iustum. I do however dislike the late roman republic and the entire roman empire era, because of their moral decline (in terms of foreign politics), undermining of the concept of bellum iustum and casus belli, and the consequences of that - leaving Europe as a big mess. I also dislike the roman propaganda that still has left some traces today. Mainly two things: the disrespect for the other cultures of the time, giving them an image of brutality and primitivity, while Rome takes the credit for inventions that barbarians really came up with (such as soap, desert irrigation, aqueducts, good roads, quincunx, scutum, gladius, pilum, being protective to arts science and philosophy and "saving the works of the greeks from the barbarians", taking all credit for the greek philosophy, sometimes taking all the credits for everything that any person living in rome - whether roman or not - achieved, etc). The other thing is the constant curse over Europe that the aspiration to "create a new Rome" has been.

Rome is a good illustration of a simple point: that a comparatively good-hearted and morally superior faction can gain strength by applying this systematically - but not to an exaggerated extent. But also a proof that when it gets too powerful, it doesn't matter how good it was when it was weaker - enough power corrupts any empire.

[Zangor]

Just out of curiosity, how exactly did the Greeks "benefit" from the Romans?
By getting conquered?

*pops out of lurking*

All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?

*runs off and hides again*

[TWFanatic]

Just out of curiosity, how exactly did the Greeks "benefit" from the Romans?
By getting conquered?

Freedom from the Macedonian yoke. Albeit they traded one master for another, but apparently the Rome was preferable to them as they asked for their assistance. More importantly, the ceaseless warfare finally came to an end.

Not to mention the benifets of Roman culture and technology, much of which was simply taken from the Greeks and improved upon by the Romans.

But I'm not going to get involved in another "pro-Rome vs anti-Rome" debate. Getting a little tired of them tbh.

[Pharnakes]

This is the first one I've seen here. TBH, I have to admit that the romans did bring one, and just one advantage to the greeks. But I have to admit it was a very important one. And that was stability.

[quackingduck]

*All right, but apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, a fresh water system, and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?*

monty python teaches us so much

[Starforge]

monty python teaches us so much

QFT!

Right. You're in. Listen. The only people we hate more than the Romans are the Judean People's Front!


I think many times it boils down to 2 things: A cultural component (they beat up my ancestors) or an attempt to view them through 21st century morals and ethics.

[Dayve]

So from what i can gather, people hate Rome because:

They conquered the world
They perfected inventions and then passed them off as their own
They became the most corrupt and 'immoral' people in history

That's really no reason to hate them. Anybody that has some form of power in a large and powerful nation becomes corrupt. Look at Alexander, he thought he was a god, exterminated many innocent people to make sure there was no rebellion, and carved an empire bigger (or just as big), richer and potentially more powerful than Rome ever was, at least it would have been if he could have held it together instead of dying and giving chunks to his generals, who went on to squabble and kill each other until they were destroyed by Rome. And yet everybody loves Alexander.

Anybody in those days that carved an empire even half the size and half as powerful as Rome would have become greedy, corrupt and 'immoral', it's the human way. Even in todays world, where we are considered to be more civilized than ever before, there are still extremely corrupt people in government. Even in the west which is pretty much the most developed part of the world the governments are just as corrupt as any Roman emperor ever was, perhaps with the exception of Denmark which is just lovely altogether.

All this is no reason to hate them, anybody else would have been just like them.

[Redmeth]

Rome was the player controlled faction in history and thus Rome is the most popular faction to play as EB... Do you see what I'm getting at

[Centurio Nixalsverdrus]

Rome was the player controlled faction in history and thus Rome is the most popular faction to play as EB... Do you see what I'm getting at

If this was the case, how could mankind pass 14 AD? And how could Rome finally crumble?

[Tarkus]

Good one, Dayve...I see another fat thread comin' on...can't wait to see how it unfolds...

[Redmeth]

If this was the case, how could mankind pass 14 AD? And how could Rome finally crumble?

Well, when you get bored of RTW you started playing BI and you played some as the Goths, then as the Franks and then went to MTW or M2TW and you started fooling around with the factions. The truth is out there...

[MarcusAureliusAntoninus]

I think certain people hate the Romans for the same reason people hate the Yankees, the Raiders, and the Lakers.

[L.C.Cinna]

If this was the case, how could Rome finally crumble?

because the add-on was bugged

[Tarkus]

Right on, MAA...I agree completely.

You see so much of the same nonsense when browsing through some of the WWII sim sites and somebody talks about their experiences as playing the "German faction" (so to speak) and how that relates to their own knowledge of the strategic and tactical elements of the German war machine of the early- to mid-1940s. Unfortunately, they all too often are met with vile rants against them, labeling them as "Nazi fanboys" -- supposedly nothing more than Hitlerjugend wanna-be's that were born a generation or two late in history.

It all seems to be a bit silly to me...I'm personally fascinated by the way in which the average German soldier dealt with the experience of battle on the Eastern Front in the 1940s, and I'm now fascinated -- thanks to RTW and EB -- in a similar understanding of the Roman soldier's experiences in battles across the sands of Africa, the forests of Germania, and the steppes of Asia. Does that make me a "Roman fanboy"?? I think not!

[Pharnakes]

I just admire the eastern greeks and Pontus especialy (ok, I know they not strictly greek) far to much to ever like the romans. Aknowlodge their greatness, yes, like them no, hate them, no, say I hate them to see how others will respond, defininately.

Get shouted at afterwards by bovi, probably.

[NeoSpartan]

LOL!!!

nah I don't hate the Romans, and I don't think most people here "hate" the romans.

Now to answer Dayve question.
I believe the persieved hostility is due to a the many threads that sprung up a month where people were whining about:
-why are my legions not Uber
-why are my legions taking so many casualties against Classical Hoplites
-why can't my legions beat a phalanxs in a frontal assult
-etc, etc...

and when members and experieced EB players explained they just ingonored those posts and whinned some more.

But it didn't stop there the whinning got so bad the EB team members just lost it and started telling to those people to F*** off! Something they RARELY do.


As a result there is still a knee jerk reaction to remind (sometimes in a not so friendly matter) those who post "praise the all mightly Romans" type threads that the Romani were NOT the uber mofo's they are made out to be.

[Emperor Burakuku]

I think certain people hate the Romans for the same reason people hate the Yankees, the Raiders, and the Lakers.

You mean Real Madrid, Manchaster United and A.C Milan, right? I mean I could hate them like that, but I don't have anything agains the Lakers. Who are the Raiders?

[BerkeleyBoi]

You mean Real Madrid, Manchaster United and A.C Milan, right? I mean I could hate them like that, but I don't have anything agains the Lakers. Who are the Raiders?

People hate Manchester United? Everyone in China loves them... I assumed the world did too...

[beatoangelico]

You mean Real Madrid, Manchaster United and A.C Milan, right? I mean I could hate them like that, but I don't have anything agains the Lakers. Who are the Raiders?

actually in Italy the most hated team is Juventus FC

[Dayve]

actually in Italy the most hated team is Juventus FC

You mean people actually like Italian teams? They're the dirtiest teams out there, they'd murder the entire opposing team the night before to assure a win if they thought they could get away with it.

[Spoofa]

You mean Real Madrid, Manchaster United and A.C Milan, right? I mean I could hate them like that, but I don't have anything agains the Lakers. Who are the Raiders?

are you not american?