Casse anyone?

Hi There,

I consider myself an EB novice, as I'm still playing my first campaign (Romani). But playing EB has got me reading stuff on the period.

I recently started reading Tacitus's account of Roman campaigns in Britain, and that got me wondering about the Casse faction in EB.

I wanted to ask if anyone regularly played the Casse faction, and if so, what views/experiences they had of playing that faction? I guess I'm curious to know more about the Casse faction and how the campaign develops for them.

I was also wondering if the Casse faction is - or will be - voice-modded?

about casse, have you checked the oficial site?
https://www.europabarbarorum.com/factions_casse.html

on the other questions i dont know the answer :)

cheers:balloon2:

I haven't played the Casse faction since 0.8, so my account may be a little out of date, but I found them fun to play. Militarily, they are weaker than the continental Celts and they have got a rather tense start, but once you've defeated the rebel stacks you are safe and can conquer Britain to turn it into an economic powerhouse.

As the Casse you start out with one city, a small army and peace with the Eleutheroi. You'll need it because you've got only one other trading partner and your army is probably not strong enough to defeat the two stacks (yes, two!) of Eleutheroi lurking in our near your borders. You are also allied with both Aedui and Averni, but they have only one port between them. My strategy was to turtle and build up my treasury. This required me to disband most of my army, but I kept one or two units in addition to my charioteer generals. I also built a larger harbour and a school to improve my generals. The Eleutheroi stack may attack, but I found this could be somehow countered by occasionally moving the majority of my troops in and out of the city. Once I had accumulated a considerable fortune, I recruited an army of Iasatae, Botroas and Gaeroas and conquered the three Midland towns. Strangely, the Eleutheroi stacks, who had previously shown a modest inclination to attack me, did nothing once the war started. I simply defeated the Eleutheroi one by one. Be aware though, those Balroa are though and don't rout quickly. Then it was simply a matter of conquering Caledonia and Ireland and building a strong economy. I waited until I reached the first Celtic reform and then invaded the mainland. Unfortunately, I chose to conquer Germany for betraying our alliance (they seem to be rather untrustworthy allies), which was a bad idea with hindsight. Few of their provinces generate much income, and the only recruitable German unit is the mid-level spearman and the German mercenary general. I should have developed Belgium and simply kept defending against the Germans. Then I could pick sides in the Gallic civil war. It's probably important to intervene early, because else the Romans are going to gobble up both parties, but I'd recommend to wait at least until the first reform.

Military, you are rather weak. Your basic infantry, the gaeroas and botroas units are unarmoured, but make good close-combat fighters and will form the bulk of your army. You also have access to Iasatae, which were deadly in 0.8 but have been toned down since. Still, they are quite cheap and useful missile troops. This is pretty much all you will get, but once you conquer Caern-Brigante and Caledonia, you will get access to Midlander heroes and balroa respectively. Midlander heroes are still poorly-armoured, but they give a morale boost to your troops and can be used as shock troops. Balroa are though skirmishers. Once you hit the reforms, you will get more armoured infantry. Unfortunately, these are all hero units, so they will be expensive. You need the heroes, thought, because they can can keep your gaeroas and botroas from routing when fighting stronger units.

To make things worse, your cavalry is awful. You have no heavy cavalry, poor light cavalry and your generals' chariot bodyguard is of limited value. That said, chariots are not useless: they should be used for harassment and morale support (their presence scares enemy units). They do carry a large stash of javelins and their multiple hitpoints do allow them to last a while in melee though, but you should avoid this. You can also use them to break enemy charges by moving them through the enemy unit and following up with infantry. I find it advisable to have them charge in or at least pursue routers once during the battle, as it will prevent your generals from gaining "coward" vices.

Things get better once you conquer Belgium. The Belgian provinces have upgraded versions of several of your units, as well as the best Celtic cavalry unit available. You also can recruit Milnath (also available in Camulosadae), who make good shock infantry. Unfortunately, these only become available after the first Celtic reform. Ireland also has it share of useful units after the first reform, including one of the best-armoured infantry units in the game, so perhaps I am being a bit too harsh on the Casse here. They do have good units, but you'll have to wait until the first reform to get the heavy stuff, and they are mostly found in only a few provinces. But once you've got the British isles developed, you've got the economy to build a powerful army or two, and use them to conquer Gaul. Just don't make the same mistake I did and get bogged down at the Eastern front.

The Casse use the Gallic voicemod, as they are ex-pat Gauls and not Briton Celts.

Many thanks for these replies.

I'll check out the EB website and, having read Ludens' excellent summary, I'll probably play a Casse campaign after I finish the present game.

That's good advice Ludens - many thanks!

A word of advice: Keep one unit of infantry and disband the rest to get out of debt. Keep one unit or you may be defeated by a bunch of Caledonian skirmishers on turn 3. My earliest campaign end on EB so far.:no:

Hi Strategos Alexandros,

Thanks for this reply. I just started playing EB recently and began with a Romani campaign. But it seems to me that playing a 'barbarian' faction might be more of a challenge. Maybe the Casse are one of the harder factions to play?

I'll remember the advice about Caledonian skirmishers!

I noticed that the rebels won't attack you until you build roads, as soon as the roads got completed they always attacked me.

i have had the same experience with the casse in 0.81 like Ludens, so i've got nothing to say about that.

one thing though is slightly advantaguous in my opinion: casse start on an island. from when you've conquered everything from the thames river to the irish highlands i managed to create a flourishing economy (was a bugger to conquer everything though, friggin rebels and stupid chariots :furious3: ). i quickly got more than 100k mnai etc and kept on building.

one thing i couldn't enjoy in 0.81 but is possible in 1.0 are the reforms. since their no longer on a pre-set date the celtic factions are no longer limited by that.

in fact, with these 'reform' in the reforms i think the casse have the strongest potential of all celtic factions. why? you start on an island, once conquered its all yours (and thats about the only hard part). then all you have to do is built that economy, trigger all reforms, make a sh*tload of cash and start conquering the mainland.

the only thing perhaps is you'll then also meet harder resistance but you'll have the best troops under your command so its a double-sided coin.

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Originally Posted by Redmeth

I noticed that the rebels won't attack you until you build roads, as soon as the roads got completed they always attacked me.

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That could be it. Roads were always one of the first things I built, so that would explain why they attacked me. However, like I wrote, I could dissuade them from attacking by moving nearly all my units a bit up the road. Not sure why. Anyway, your starting army is not quite as powerful as the stack of Caledonian skirmishers (Balroa), and anyway you cannot afford to go to war with the Eleutheroi because you will lose almost all your trade income.

One thing I forgot was that in EB 1.0 the Casse can recruit naked spearmen. They are wimpy units, no wear near as tough as the gaesatae, but their presence scares enemy infantry, which is useful to break uncertain enemy units.

Casse is one of my favorite faction but I don't play them because their generals suck.

Hi, and many thanks for the replies! That's plenty of good info on the Casse faction - I'll give them a try and see what happens.

I also wanted to ask: do the Casse get historical-type leaders like boudicca and Caratacus? Just wondering . . .

The Casse generals are the worst generals in melee in the game, you just need to learn to use them as they're meant to be used: morale support,
running down the odd light cavalry, and a few extra javelins in the mass of enemies always helps.

I don't think anyone gets historical leaders. You might be lucky (or unlucky) enough to get a general like Caratacus, but generals are born or adopted or married as your version of history in your game plays out.

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Originally Posted by Gaius Valerius

one thing i couldn't enjoy in 0.81 but is possible in 1.0 are the reforms. since their no longer on a pre-set date the celtic factions are no longer limited by that.

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The reforms got tweaked they triggered too fast in 1.0 even if the player was not a Celtic faction. But as the Casse if you conquer the whole island and build up towards the needed things you'll still be able to do it in a reasonable amount of time. The 2nd reform will not be something you'd hold off winning the game in order to reach...

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Originally Posted by Gaius Valerius

in fact, with these 'reform' in the reforms i think the casse have the strongest potential of all celtic factions. why? you start on an island, once conquered its all yours (and thats about the only hard part). then all you have to do is built that economy, trigger all reforms, make a sh*tload of cash and start conquering the mainland.

the only thing perhaps is you'll then also meet harder resistance but you'll have the best troops under your command so its a double-sided coin.

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I agree, I'd like once to let the game play out on the mainland until after the 2nd reform and then fight it out with the best rosters...

Don't mean to self-promote but I think this might help you...

https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=96006

Its my Casse aar. You can get some good gameplay ideas if you parse though the rp.

AC

There is a mini-mod around (or a how-to) with which you can change the Casse BG to a decent foot unit of your choice. Since doing so I enoy the Casse very much.

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Wasn't there a reported bug/typo about the Casse generals' hitpoints? They're just too easy to kill en masse with a shower of arrows or two, and once done, the whole army routs: Heroic Victory for :2cents:
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Originally Posted by Javolenus Priscus

I also wanted to ask: do the Casse get historical-type leaders like boudicca and Caratacus? Just wondering . . .

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The only historical generals that are in the mod are those that were alive at the start. Boudicca is out of time-frame anyway. However, there starting faction leader is a Celtic historical figure, and has very high intelligence and energy values so he will acquire skills very quickly.

I've got a great Casse campaign that I've been playing off and on for months. They're super fun, highly reccomended. Now that the reforms are changed, not too long after you finish conquering Caledonia and Hibernia and building them up a little you should have the second reform. They have some really sweet units and pretty good recruitment in Gaul and Belgium. Definitely one of my faves.

Just started a Casse campaign yesterday. Its a painstaking process, building up a hoard of gold, then buying a horde of men, assault the rebel cities asap, then disband before the army sends me banckrupt (or ebven more banckrupt).

I find I build a core of slingers and maybe a spearman or two, and then top up with mercs. Casualties are high in this armour free environment, although once I can afford it I'll be investing in axemen.

My aim is to take the entire British isles, trigger reforms by bulking up on health buildings and markets, and then getting those juicy irish armoured assault inf to do my dirty work on the mainland. Long supply lines will take some tinkering.

My continental campaign will begin in Denmark: I'll crack the Sweboz and work my way down the Atlantic seaboard from there. In EB 0.8 I found the Germans far tougher than the Gallic faction (maybeb because I was thei only neighbour once I took Belgium?) and having them on my flank was a real bore. I want to take them down first before I start the fratricide.

@ Ludens:
I wouldn't call Uirodusios (naked spearmen) "wimpy". If you compare them to Gaesatae, sure, but look at them compared to Gaelaiche (celtic spearmen). The clothed variant have sligtly better protection vs. missiles (armour 2, skill 10, shield 3 vs. armour 1, skill 12, shield 2), but have lower morale (11 vs. 13) and lower mass (1.05 vs. 1.15), whatever that is good for. Plus, the naked variant scare infantry and have better stamina, and are recruitable right from the start. All that for 42 mnai more a turn.

@ Redmeth:
Do you know if they will do something about the temples? If I remember correctly, not all the temple variants that the Cassae can build will increase the temple count (for the "Time of Soldiers" reform you need five max level temples, among other things).

Denmark doesn't have much in the way of troops available to the casse and if the Germans are well prepared the campaign can be hell. Goodluck though

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Originally Posted by Julian the apostate

Denmark doesn't have much in the way of troops available to the casse and if the Germans are well prepared the campaign can be hell. Goodluck though

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My theory is to build a frontline of local skirmishers, backed by a solid core of armoured Irish assault inf of various sorts and a maximumn of 4 slingers/stack.

The skirmishers cover the armoured inf charge, while the slings take down the Sweboz FM's and occasional cav. Its a recipe for low casualties among my less replaceable units (surely there's some light germans in my regional MIC's?).

I expect I will need to hire heavy german mercs to bolster the line at some point, or alternately my forces will be ambushed in some German swamp and annhilated and I'll resort to an "Iberia first" strategy.

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Originally Posted by Chris A. T.

@ Redmeth:
Do you know if they will do something about the temples? If I remember correctly, not all the temple variants that the Cassae can build will increase the temple count (for the "Time of Soldiers" reform you need five max level temples, among other things).

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I don"t know what you mean i didn"t write the script but i"m pretty sure they check for all types do you have a link or sth?

I have played Casse campaigns to completion in both v0.81 and v1.0.

I too have an AAR here.

At the start I made several failed attempts to blitz my way to capturing the first Rebel town (Ratae), so then I tried disbanding my army to build up my economy and then got defeated by the Caledonian stack.

In the end I retained one Botroas and one Gaeroas, and that proved just sufficient to see off the Caledonians.

I stayed put at Camulosadae until I had enough money to build (but not maintain) a decent half-stack, then launched it at Ratae. I sat outside and waited for them to sally (chariots are useless inside settlements), by which time I was in negative mnai.

With two provinces, my economy was strong enough to maintain my half-stack on a permanent basis, so I could repeat the routine at each town in Britannia and Hibernia. I only kept one army so that I could spend more on infrastructure.

With the British Isles under control, you need to build naval facilities in Ictis and Ivernis to build a navy big enough to face the pirates in the English Channel.

I can't see any reasonable alternative to starting the conquest of Gaul at Bratosporios. It is a large firendly settlement and you can build good swordsmen there (Milnaht). It is advisable to grab it before the Sweboz do so you can avoid being at war with them.

The biggest problem I faced in Gaul was finding decent swordsmen, I had to keep shipping Botroas and Calawre over from Britannia. Eventually I ended up with armies in Gaul that were bulked up with locally recruited levy swords (Kluddobro) and levy spears (Gaelaiche), sometimes leading to some embarrasing defeats.

The lack of good cavalry has never bothered me with the Casse. My battle system is to pin the enemy with a line of swordsmen, send slingers (escorted by spearmen) around the left to weaken the enemy, then roll up their line with my elite swords. My generals hover around the enemy flanks to scare them, intercept enemy cavalry and chase routers. When I conduct siege assaults, the general watches from a safe distance.

Hi Juvenal,

Many thanks for this - some good info here. I'll check out your AAR too.

And thanks to everyone who has responded - good to get some sound advice before embarking on a new campaign!

All the best, guys!

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Originally Posted by Juvenal

I have played Casse campaigns to completion in both v0.81 and v1.0....

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Well thats an impressive and comprehensive summary.

I know the pirates in the North Sea are a massive hazard, but is Belgium really the only option once Britain is secured?

I've just taken ireland, so next I'll try to sneak a 2FM+ a full stackarcoss to Scandinavia across the top edge of the map in between the pirates semi-regular rounds. It'll be like the prisoners in "The Great Escape" dodging the spotlights.

The other mad option is disband the army completely, save several hundred thousand mnai, land a couple of diplomats and hunt for stray generals/settlements to bribe to get a foothold on the mainland. I guess thats the paranoid-euro "Perfidious Albion" scenario.

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Originally Posted by Redmeth

I don"t know what you mean i didn"t write the script but i"m pretty sure they check for all types do you have a link or sth?

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I think it would be best not to clog this tread with code, so, since it is a bit off topic anyway, I'll go post it in a tread of its own.

.. And here it is:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=97606

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Originally Posted by Cyclops

...I know the pirates in the North Sea are a massive hazard, but is Belgium really the only option once Britain is secured?

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It is very expensive to take on the Pirates. If you are going any further than a quick hop across the Channel (which can be done within a single turn), then you need control of the sea.

In my v0.80 campaign there was a succession of pirate fleets sailing up and down the channel. I think I lost three stacks of the high level ships (Pontomoros?) before I could build a stack that actually survived long enough to limp back to Ictis and refit.

In v1.0 it wasn't quite so bad - but this may just be down to chance. Belgium is the best place to start because it is rebel, is of the correct culture and can quickly become a good base for expansion. If you want to invade further north, I suggest you hop over to Belgium first then march up the coast with your fleet sailing beside you, so if it gets sunk then you haven't lost the army too.

Don't forget that your Victory conditions are to control Britannia, Hibernia, Gaul and Northern Iberia - not Scandinavia, so landing there is a bit of a luxury.

In 1.0 the damn rebel scum keep attacking me early on (like on the 3rd or 4th turn), when i have disbanded most of my units. Since the chariots are, ahem, not suitable for fighting skirmishers (the rebels usually have a half stack of skirmishers), i can't beat them :wall:

From memory on VH/Med I found best way to get some income and get set up before all the starting treasury was eroded was the blitz method.
I recruited a handful of Iasoatae (celtic slingers) which are almost essential esp for sieges and I also built roads for troop movements. Cant remember what else if anything I spent it on. I made sure to use all the starting gold as soon as possible though before it was eroded by my huge debts.

I also made a spy( I think - cant remember if it was available at this stage) and a diplomat or two and sent them off to see the world and sell map info and trade rights etc (the latter arent worth anything for a while until you get your economy going)
The Sweboz very early on paid me 5000 mnai for something, an alliance I think , which suited me ok as I coveted their enemies richer lands in Gaul over their scrubby bits. I wasnt to attack Aedui and Arverni until much later though as their trade income was good.

So anyway after I recruit about 4 Iasoatae I head across the Channel to take Bratosporios which was my richest trading partner, sea trade is where the money is at (mines are great too but cost 14000 to build so out of the question at this stage), I head east a bit to take Bagacos also.
These three seafaring cities have quickly stopped me losing money or very nearly, I found it quicker than conquering Britain anyway.

Now I have some nice 3-way sea trade going on I return to Britain and conquer the Isles, including Hibernia, the little Caledonian town far in the north can be left as its fairly poor and lacking in potential but I eventually took it just to make the the whole Island blue :)

Your naval port settlements are at Ictis (Cornwall) and/or Ivernis , but Ivernis (southern Ireland) was much bigger and developed quicker in my game. It was also handy to Emain-Macha just north which in my opinion is the best MIC available in the Isles with some good AP units in particular.

Now Britain is conquered (and luckily noone has bothered my 2 Belgic settlements or I would be severely stretched) I recruit enough Iasoatae to make up 50% of my army and augment it with melee units (Botroas, Gaeroas, Naked Spearmen etc)
I head back across the channel and take the Eleutheroi settlements in a southwards direction along the Atlantic coast.
These have 1 or 2 lucrative ports and I can stay allied with the Arverni and Aedui and trade with them nearby.

Casse troop selection is very similar to Arverni and Aedui but not quite as good IMO, however I havent played long enough to build lvl5 units reform units such as the .285 lethality AP swordsmen.

Botroas swordsmen are inferior to the Gaulish Bataroas, British cavalry sucks and I find chariot generals annoying compared to heavy cavalry generals as in the 2 Gaulish tribes.

My favourite units are Iasoatae of course followed by Milnaht (Belgae Swordsmen) and Celtic Axemen , Gaeroas would marginally be my favourite spear unit but Naked Spearmen (great stamina and scary) or Belgae Spearmen are dam close
I prefer Milnaht over Calawre as while they have similar stats, the Milnaht have more men and more stamina. Calawre are better armoured but I would prefer a slightly superior fighting unit like Milnaht to one that provides morale bonuses, as a stronger unit boots/maintains morale just by winning quicker and then supporting its neighbour or flanking an enemy! My theory anyway.

Skirmisher units with javelins and shortswordsmen (which includes Midlander Heroes) are pretty worthless IMO
Cavalry arent missed much except for chasing routers but I expect I could find a use for heavy cav with AP lances such as Brihentin or Belgae Cavalry

Much, much later in the game if you can recruit any sort of phalanx unit (Helvetii or Alpine) its a godsend. They get chewed up by other phalanxes but are great anvils vs anyone else

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Originally Posted by Juvenal

It is very expensive to take on the Pirates. If you are going any further than a quick hop across the Channel (which can be done within a single turn), then you need control of the sea...

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I left a small celtic boat off the orkneys to test this theory and after 4 turns its still afloat.

I appreciate the priates will kill anything short of a major fleet caught at sea within sight of Germany and south britain, but the north seems relatively safe.

I realise Belgium is the obvious place to start but I have completed the Casse in 0.8 so I'm looking for a different road to victory, and Germany seems a real challenge.

I'd try Iberia first but I doubt I'd sail more than a turn without having my arse sunk.

I'm building a half stack of the fierce Irish ultra-heavies to start the party in Sweden: I have a feeling they'll storm through the low armour troops up there.

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Originally Posted by Mykingdomforanos

...So anyway after I recruit about 4 Iasoatae I head across the Channel to take Bratosporios...

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I can't believe I never thought of that!

The Casse campaign is set up so you can't blitz Britannia (I tried several times and failed), but I never thought of going for Bratosporios first - probably because I am a wuss (I had already decided to sell the fleet, and didn't want to face other factions until I had an economy).

Building up toward taking the first settlement takes a long time - so getting Bratosporios in the first year is a big boost. The initial small fleet is all you need for this strategy because it can ferry troops across the pas-de-Calais in one turn and can hide in the port from the nasty pirates.

I really am going to have to give this a try.

Exactly, its also the richest city at least until Emain-Macha and send a diplomat to bargain for that 5000 mnai from Sweboz and you will be out of the red and ready to rumble in no time.
However you will need to also take Bagacos, otherwise if you have around a 8-10 unit army you will still be losing mnai each turn.

My army was severely weakened after 2 or 3 battles anyhow so taking the richest provinces very quickly to get back in credit and retrain the army was my priority.

Add to that you won't have to worry about the allies betraying you, for a while: the Aedui are generally too busy with their Arverni enemy.

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Originally Posted by Juvenal

Building up toward taking the first settlement takes a long time - so getting Bratosporios in the first year is a big boost.

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I didnt attack anyone until I had 3 Iaosatae with 1-2 more recruiting, without them my army was pretty much ruined after one battle.

The Aedui sometimes betrayed their alliance and attacked my western gaul settlements but it seems usually because I had stomped over their land while taking a shortcut :laugh4:
Even so have a big stack in the vicinity in case, but you should be fine if you just took Bratosporios and Bagacos and are busy conquering Britannia and Hibernia, they only seemed to sometimes get tetchy when you have taken over huge swathes of Gaul that are in their expansion zone.

Yo Ludens. I tried playing Casse (my very first choice), but I accidentally attacked an Eleutheroi village somewhere in modern Denmark, which was also besieged by the Sweboz (I know, I know--a blunder in picking the wrong side, and a very bad place to be in(what was I doing in Denmark?) so far from home), and of course got drubbed and was losing money fast too, so I abandoned the campaign and erased it then started a fresh Casse campaign, this time following the advice of the Guide (disband some units, get the emissary across the Channel, look for trade partners, disband the ship), but I soon was again on the road to bankruptcy. At the moment, I can't think of what to do next. But I like your advice here--it could help me a lot. Hawooh.

Casse have -the best- starting position, but their weaker military isn't compensated until you get ahold of Gaul.

They're my favorite faction though. :P

Plus they can get some super-brilliant governers and tradesmen.

My own starting tactics were similar to ones proposed here - I sent my diplomat across the channel immediately to start his long walk around the world getting trade agreements and cheekily bartering map information here and there, then instantly disbanded my single ship so I didn't have to pay the huge upkeep, then ramped up the taxes in Camulosadae. Don't go to war with the rebels until you're absolutely ready, since you immediately take quite a hit in your finances by going that route.

A short while later I waited until the last possible moment to gather a force to go north and strike Ratae (since upkeep is the big killer in the Casse early-game) so that most of my expenditure was a one-turn hit that I could regenerate slowly once Ratae was captured.

The early-game sieges are a piece of cake. A core of slingers is key, and the AI is stupid enough to keep making forays out into the range of them, but since I disbanded the army immediately after I was victorious at Ratae, casualties didn't really matter, I suppose.

Once you have two provinces, your profits should be rather small, but steady. Through this you should be able to concentrate on building structures to increase your trade, farming and profits in any way possible. You will be in the red for quite a bit of the first few turns, and will spend alot of time doing nothing but hitting the end turn button.

Once you get the third province (using the last minute recruitment scheme mentioned earlier) you should have enough money to feasibly maintain at least a half-decent force ready for your next move. After that, Britannia becomes your oyster.

In my campaign (H/H) its 245bc, I have all of England and Wales, I'm making 4-5k profit per turn, and have 25k in the bank at the moment, and a nice big group of family members.

Yo, guys... Reading the posts of Olaf the Great and unreal_uk is inspiring to me (I'm just in Turn 4--1 year--into my campaign). And knowing in advance I've got great governors and a potential to make kilomnai if only I play my turns right, attracts me to go on.
Yes, I know: the Casse's position in an isolated island is a good one. That's why I used to play the faction (I forgot the name) at the westernmost tip of Japan in ShogunTW, and the Danes in MTW--because they have great starting positions.
Well, let's see in the next turns if the tactics I love so well playing Greek in RomeTW could be adopted to the Casse in EB. Anyway, I'll consult your posts guys, time to time, as I go along.
Hawooh.

Oh, I forgot to ask the question that hounds me--how come, in the Casse starting turn, I'm allied to both the Aedui and Arveni, but yet those two factions are at war with each other? Anyone can explain, please? Hawooh.