RTW noob questions

Hello all, I havent posted in the forums for a long while (two years!?), I havent actually had the time to play computer games , too many things to juggle :juggle2: until the recent holidays when I stumbled across my (shrink wrapped) copy of RTW. So I finally installed it and played a game having updated to 1.5 patch.

First I played a M/M game with Julii for a few turns to learn the ropes and now a "proper" game on H/H. I doubt I will ever play on VH as Froggy's guide says they AI gets stupid advantages. I have gone thorugh both her and Quietus's guides so I hope I am not repeating any questions that have been dealt with already.

1. Special units.
a) Elephants, love them, got them as a reward form the Senate for a mission. Dont need to wait for sieges and my elephants beat the Carthaginian elephants outside Carthage. The Carth only had one unit of elephants i came across having overrun them in all their provinces. Did I get lucky or does the AI not build them?
b) Chariots, nasty nasty Britons. How do you deal with them? Velit javelins nor archers have any significant effect. Only the generals heavy cavalry seemd to work. Rather risky.
c) Wardogs, absolutely love them until the damn Gauls turned one on my single unit of Triari, they went down from 36 men to 12! Ant way to stop them?

2. Missile troops.
a) I have only had roman archers so far, havent used post Marian legionary archers yet. They seem to be very ineffective at actually killing anyone. Is this correct? eg I shot up a warband using up about half the archers ammo, they only killed 5 of the 61 Gauls.
b) Belearic Slingers. Love this as well, a lot better then archers, eg they decimated a warband from 61 down to 30 odd. Only problem is the idots sometimes shoot my own troops in the back. Even if I put them off for auto fire (A) they still sometimes shoot so I turn them facing away fromt he enemy so there is no firendly fire once the melee starts. Is there a better way?

3. Managing armies.
a) I get the impression that in armies where ther is no family member I have a tougher time getting the units to move where I want them to. Is this my imagination or a feature of the game?
b) Inforests the trees are absolutely huge and frankly a nuisance as even if I go down to the units point of view it is rather hard to see where the enemy is. Again I suppose this is a game feature? But then why is cavalry allowed to charge around in woods? Is there a penalty for them in wood combat?

4. The AI:
a) Ambushes! I got ambushed by the Gauls but it was very easy to beat the snot out of them. Why? Because the Gauls on my left attacked the rear of my column, the Gauls on the right attacked the middle and the Gaul bait I was chasing attacked from the front after a while. This meant my front turned around areinforced the middle, flaniking the Gauls there and routning them. Then I routed the ones attacking my inn the rear and finally turned again to deal with the bait. Why dont the AI attack with all troops only one section of my army (eg the tail) from all sounds and cause an instarout na d then hit my fron and middle sandwiched between their main army and their bait? Much mor effective tactics I think.
b) Is the naval-army coordination any good? I got very lucky in my first game, from the Sneate missions I got three quinquiremes and so I managed to sink the Carthaginian fleets repeatedly. THey almost always were carrying troops shuttling to and from Spain/ Sicily/ Carthage/ Beleares. Why did the navies fight carrying their precious cargo, triremes against quinquiremes?

5. Civil War and Rome
a) Havent had it yet but in my first game I stopped just before Civil War was breaking out. The situation was this, two full stack SPQR armies next to each other outside Rome, my twoo stacks both with generals and a Scipii stack. Every one at war with each other. In the event of battle ( I didnt fight, no time for such a big battle) how would it work out? Would all five armies appear simultaneuosly? Would my second army be able to cooperate with me or would it fight indfependently and I would have to adapt my main armies plans to its needs?
b) According to the rankings, Brutii are filthy rich though they own only three provinces, Croton, Tarnetum, Applonia. What gives? They then went on a conquering spree annihilating Greece, Macedon and Thrace but havent gotten sinificantly richer. In fact I am richer than them.
c) Damn Brutii also have huge armies, seven full stack near Campus Iazyges. Very very powerful. But nothing defending their core, Croton and Tarnetyum. Why?

6. Capital.
Any risks of moving it to AMsilia?

Welcome to the .Org o_loompah_the_delayer ~:wave:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

a) Elephants, love them, got them as a reward form the Senate for a mission. Dont need to wait for sieges and my elephants beat the Carthaginian elephants outside Carthage. The Carth only had one unit of elephants i came across having overrun them in all their provinces. Did I get lucky or does the AI not build them?

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The AI does build quite a few of them in my campaigns, but only when they have the associated infrastructure in provinces with the "elephant" trade resource. I believe Carthage lacks the infrastructure required at the start of the game, so won't begin training the beasts straight away.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

b) Chariots, nasty nasty Britons. How do you deal with them? Velit javelins nor archers have any significant effect. Only the generals heavy cavalry seemd to work. Rather risky.

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As you have said, general's cavalry deal with chariots fairly well, although a few units of very heavy infantry often is much better. Units which can form into the phalanx formation are also effective, but only if the chariots charge into the units front. Missile Units which use javelins are supposed to be good again chariots/elephants, but I haven't yet tested them.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

c) Wardogs, absolutely love them until the damn Gauls turned one on my single unit of Triari, they went down from 36 men to 12! Ant way to stop them?

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I am lead to believe that there is some sort of bug making wardogs overpowered - a full stack of them was said to have obliterated most of an equal full stack composed of only humans while taking few losses. Elephants are said to be good against them in many reports though, but as a Roman getting hold of some can be problematic. I would say cavalry would be a good alternative, or possibly fairly heavy infantry

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

a) I have only had roman archers so far, havent used post Marian legionary archers yet. They seem to be very ineffective at actually killing anyone. Is this correct? eg I shot up a warband using up about half the archers ammo, they only killed 5 of the 61 Gauls.

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I haven't noticed too much of a difference between the strength of Archer Auxila and Roman Archers. They do seem fairly equal in attacks, although the Archer Auxila appears to be a little better all round statistically.

The sucess of attacks often depends upon the firing angle - when missiles lunched directly at the unit's front or the left flank all defense attributes (with the exclusion of defense skill) apply. When launched in the right flank or the rear only the armor statistic protects the unit. Bear this in mind when attacking heavily shielded foes.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

b) Belearic Slingers. Love this as well, a lot better then archers, eg they decimated a warband from 61 down to 30 odd. Only problem is the idots sometimes shoot my own troops in the back. Even if I put them off for auto fire (A) they still sometimes shoot so I turn them facing away fromt he enemy so there is no firendly fire once the melee starts. Is there a better way?

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Yep, it's easily resolvable. Simply click on the arrow symbol with the red background in the bottom right hand side of the screen. This switches of fire at will, which automatically makes them fire at all foes in range.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

.b) Inforests the trees are absolutely huge and frankly a nuisance as even if I go down to the units point of view it is rather hard to see where the enemy is. Again I suppose this is a game feature? But then why is cavalry allowed to charge around in woods? Is there a penalty for them in wood combat?

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There is a fairly large attack penalty for most cavalry in woods, although it isn't always noticeable. They can, as you have noticed, still charge, although with less force than they could in the open due to the penalties. Barbarian Cavalry units, although they also gain penalties, don't quite have the attack deducted quite as much as "civilized" cavalry units.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

a) I get the impression that in armies where ther is no family member I have a tougher time getting the units to move where I want them to. Is this my imagination or a feature of the game?

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I haven't noticed such a feature.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

a) Ambushes! I got ambushed by the Gauls but it was very easy to beat the snot out of them. Why? Because the Gauls on my left attacked the rear of my column, the Gauls on the right attacked the middle and the Gaul bait I was chasing attacked from the front after a while. This meant my front turned around areinforced the middle, flaniking the Gauls there and routning them. Then I routed the ones attacking my inn the rear and finally turned again to deal with the bait. Why dont the AI attack with all troops only one section of my army (eg the tail) from all sounds and cause an instarout na d then hit my fron and middle sandwiched between their main army and their bait? Much mor effective tactics I think.
b) Is the naval-army coordination any good? I got very lucky in my first game, from the Sneate missions I got three quinquiremes and so I managed to sink the Carthaginian fleets repeatedly. THey almost always were carrying troops shuttling to and from Spain/ Sicily/ Carthage/ Beleares. Why did the navies fight carrying their precious cargo, triremes against quinquiremes?

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The AI in R:TW doesn't always perform as well as it should - both on the campaign map and battlemap. This was improved in later patches, and even more so in BI, but it still doesn't have as tactical sense anywhere near to that of a human. This is unfortunate since it removes much of the challange from the game.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

a) Havent had it yet but in my first game I stopped just before Civil War was breaking out. The situation was this, two full stack SPQR armies next to each other outside Rome, my twoo stacks both with generals and a Scipii stack. Every one at war with each other. In the event of battle ( I didnt fight, no time for such a big battle) how would it work out? Would all five armies appear simultaneuosly?

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Not all five - only the stack which has been attacked, any adjacent re-enforcements for both sides (both allied and own faction troops) and the attacker will end up fighting on the field. The other stack will simply watch from afar and not bother to get involved.

Whether all those that are supposed to appear will appear or not depends upon the number of troops fighting in total. When a certain number of troops on the field is reached (both sides), all additional reinforcements are automatically delayed until a significant number of troops have been killed. The idea behind this is simply to prevent the rendering engine going beyond its maximum capacity and negatively effecting performance.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

Would my second army be able to cooperate with me or would it fight indfependently and I would have to adapt my main armies plans to its needs?

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If you choose to have the reinforcing army AI controlled then it simply will make its own strategy and force you to work around it. The AI isn't very dynamic in reinforcement battles and can often hinder you more than it helps.

There is, however, a solution which allows you to take control of re-enforcement troops. This involves simply un-checking the box on the pre-battle screen which appears next to the details of each re-enforcement army.

This solution, however, has one major problem - the player can only control twenty units at a time. When there are twenty units on the field a starting unit must be killed or routed before a re-enforcement can enter. This can be problematic since re-enforcements delivered in this fashion can't all be used at once.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

]b) According to the rankings, Brutii are filthy rich though they own only three provinces, Croton, Tarnetum, Applonia. What gives? They then went on a conquering spree annihilating Greece, Macedon and Thrace but havent gotten sinificantly richer. In fact I am richer than them.

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Weird things happen money wise on hard and very hard difficulty levels - in both cases the AI gets large bonuses of cash to assist them against the player. As you may expect this is slightly larger on very hard than simply hard, but its still enough to noticeably effect income levels.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

c) Damn Brutii also have huge armies, seven full stack near Campus Iazyges. Very very powerful. But nothing defending their core, Croton and Tarnetyum. Why?

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Usually the AI doesn't feel the need to defend their homelands if there are no enemies they wish to make a move on bordering them (this excludes factions overseas). The definition of potential enemies doesn't include Romans until the civil war breaks out.

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Any risks of moving it to AMsilia?

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This depends upon how central the province is in your empire. Provinces any distance from your capital will experience a happiness penalty identified as "Distance to Capital" due to it. This happiness penalty leads to corruption in your cities which can be a major drain on income. The magnitude of the penalty increases the further away from your capital you get, so caution should be exerted when moving it.

This tool can be useful in working out the best location for your capital should you need it.

Good luck o_loompah_the_delayer ~:)

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b) Chariots, nasty nasty Britons. How do you deal with them? Velit javelins nor archers have any significant effect. Only the generals heavy cavalry seemd to work. Rather risky.

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hmm, I noticed that cavalry is completely useless against them, heavy infantry indeed is the killer for chariots...

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c) Wardogs, absolutely love them until the damn Gauls turned one on my single unit of Triari, they went down from 36 men to 12! Ant way to stop them?

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Well just as how unit is strong in melee, it will perform against dogs. Heavy swordsmen seems best for this task.

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Is there a penalty for them in wood combat?

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usually they get -4 or -6 attack/defence 'bonus' ;)

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a) I have only had roman archers so far, havent used post Marian legionary archers yet. They seem to be very ineffective at actually killing anyone. Is this correct? eg I shot up a warband using up about half the archers ammo, they only killed 5 of the 61 Gauls.

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actually late archers faaaaaar better than earlier ones - most important is distance (170 instead 120), damage, + armour. And hey has compact formation..

Niiiice tips guys. They answer your questions o_loompah_the_delayer?

Just to add my two cents worth, even though you're pretty much covered already.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

b) Chariots, nasty nasty Britons. How do you deal with them? Velit javelins nor archers have any significant effect. Only the generals heavy cavalry seemd to work. Rather risky.
c) Wardogs, absolutely love them until the damn Gauls turned one on my single unit of Triari, they went down from 36 men to 12! Ant way to stop them?

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As the Parthians my cavalry was generally useless against chariots, that includes my General's bodyguard. Early on the Ptollies massacred a couple of my armies before I started bombarding them with arrows until they fled. In a straight melee either lots of heavy infantry (with good morale) or in my Roman campaign the General seemed to cope better, but yeah its risky.

Wardogs! The bane of my existence. Heavy infantry that has enough time to deal with them before being otherwise engaged. If the enemies troops engage you while you're trying to get rid of some lousy dogs then you could be in trouble. If no heavy troops I tend to flood the area with light troops that are available, but this can be expensive in the long run.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

2. Missile troops.
a) I have only had roman archers so far, havent used post Marian legionary archers yet. They seem to be very ineffective at actually killing anyone. Is this correct? eg I shot up a warband using up about half the archers ammo, they only killed 5 of the 61 Gauls.
b) Belearic Slingers. Love this as well, a lot better then archers, eg they decimated a warband from 61 down to 30 odd. Only problem is the idots sometimes shoot my own troops in the back. Even if I put them off for auto fire (A) they still sometimes shoot so I turn them facing away fromt he enemy so there is no firendly fire once the melee starts. Is there a better way?

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Well I've noticed that missiles travelling directly into an advancing force seem to be less effective than missiles into the flanks. Watch out for enemy cavalry if you're going to do that though. Slingers also seems to be more effective than other missiles at killing advancing troops but that could just be my imagination. (maybe something to do with the fact that they travel in a straight line whereas javs and arrows have a arc?).

On your friendly fire problem, as I've said, I place missiles on the flanks of my force on occasion. If you keep your slingers line of fire/field of view clear that should do it, when your melee forces engage, turn off the fire at will feature, as has been suggested.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

4. The AI:
a) Ambushes! I got ambushed by the Gauls but it was very easy to beat the snot out of them. Why? Because the Gauls on my left attacked the rear of my column, the Gauls on the right attacked the middle and the Gaul bait I was chasing attacked from the front after a while. This meant my front turned around areinforced the middle, flaniking the Gauls there and routning them. Then I routed the ones attacking my inn the rear and finally turned again to deal with the bait. Why dont the AI attack with all troops only one section of my army (eg the tail) from all sounds and cause an instarout na d then hit my fron and middle sandwiched between their main army and their bait? Much mor effective tactics I think.
b) Is the naval-army coordination any good? I got very lucky in my first game, from the Sneate missions I got three quinquiremes and so I managed to sink the Carthaginian fleets repeatedly. THey almost always were carrying troops shuttling to and from Spain/ Sicily/ Carthage/ Beleares. Why did the navies fight carrying their precious cargo, triremes against quinquiremes?

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Yeah... the AI never takes the easy road to victory, must be some cunning plan, not finished yet though.:beam:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

c) Damn Brutii also have huge armies, seven full stack near Campus Iazyges. Very very powerful. But nothing defending their core, Croton and Tarnetyum. Why?

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Maybe because they're expanding and don't consider you a threat yet. Later on it might change. When I was the Julii, and getting fairly powerful, the Brutii abandon that policy and seeded several full stacks in northern Italy, my homelands! If there's no threat of civil war they won't need to protect their homelands, other Romans will do it for them.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

6. Capital.
Any risks of moving it to AMsilia?

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Been mentioned, just keep it central.

Hope this helps.:beam:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

b) Chariots, nasty nasty Britons. How do you deal with them? Velit javelins nor archers have any significant effect. Only the generals heavy cavalry seemd to work. Rather risky.

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I find that cavalry generally gets slaughtered against chariots due to their low numbers. The key to bringing down chariots is impeding their mobility-- Pin it between two troops of heavy infantry, and they go down pretty fast. Alternatively, get a bunch of Mercenary Hoplites from Greece. When I played as the Seleucids, even Militia Hoplites kill Egyptian chariots very well, including their imba Chariot Generals, helped by the fact that the AI likes to spit them on my spears. You'll lose a few men, but they're only militia hoplites after all. :beam:

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c) Wardogs, absolutely love them until the damn Gauls turned one on my single unit of Triari, they went down from 36 men to 12! Ant way to stop them?

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Ugh, yeah, I hate wardogs. Aside from being unrealistic, they are ridiculously overpowered.

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2. Missile troops.
a) I have only had roman archers so far, havent used post Marian legionary archers yet. They seem to be very ineffective at actually killing anyone. Is this correct? eg I shot up a warband using up about half the archers ammo, they only killed 5 of the 61 Gauls.

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Try shooting them from a position slightly to the left of the warbands so that their shield defense is negated. This is especially useful for units with bigass shields like Eastern Infantry.

Surprisingly, some of the most effective troops at bringing down chariots are foot skirmishers such as velites, peltasts and their equivalents. Many of these troops get big bonuses against chariots and will swiftly dispatch them in hand-to-hand combat. Same goes for elephants.

In my Schytian campaign I found that barbarian cavalery is excellent against wardogs (any idea why?)

BTW, anyone know how to order reinforcements not to come? (I do a lot of HAs scrimishing)

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Originally Posted by placenik

In my Schytian campaign I found that barbarian cavalery is excellent against wardogs (any idea why?)

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I think it may be related to mounted units in general - wardogs seem to do less damage to cavalry units than they do foot troops.

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Originally Posted by placenik

BTW, anyone know how to order reinforcements not to come? (I do a lot of HAs scrimishing)

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This isn't really fully controllable, although preventing the AI from controlling re-enforcements at all is. It does have severe drawbacks though.

The best method is to decheck the box(es) besides the basic details of your re-enforcements on the pre-battle scroll. This, as you may expect, makes the re-enforcement units fully under your command when they arrive.

You can, however, only have twenty units under your control at once. When this limit is reached any additional re-enforcements have to wait for units to be routed or killed before they can enter the fray. This can be fairly frustrating since you can't use all your man power all at once.

You can also prevent re-enforcements from being available at all by not placing any stacks on areas directly adjacent to other forces. This also has the disadvantage of not allowing you access to all possible man-power though, so probably is a strategy best avoided.

~:)

Allowing the AI to manage reinforcements is a waste of time IMHO. I remember checking the box and when the battle started, my reinforcements remained right where they are throughout the battle, it's as if they weren't there in the first place.

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Originally Posted by Omanes Alexandrapolites

You can also prevent re-enforcements from being available at all by not placing any stacks on areas directly adjacent to other forces.

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Exactly what I am doing now. My tactics is to scrimish and run keeping enemy busy until main force arrives, or untill I kill them all :smash: .

Thanks for the replies everyone.

Some quick fb:

- I will try to take on the chariots with velites instead of having them skirmish away.

- About the friendly fire, it seems to me that the archers/ slingers will fire the round they were firing when I give the command to stop and then stop. I do usually take them off autofire when the melee starts.

- About moving the Capital what I meant was are there any downsides to it, riots is Arretium, opprobium with the Senate and peolpe for moving out of Italy etc.

- I think also I have figured out whhy the Brutii are so rich, wahtever bonus the AI gets, surely that would apply to Scipii and the other factions too? BUt Brutii are richer than everyone. I took Carthage in the new campaign on H/H now and exterminated the population and got 24,000 denarii in loot. Typically I have only 3-4,000 denarii to play with a turn so this was a a massive bonanza. I am guessing Brutii must have been doing that as they went through Thermon, Larissa, Athens Corinth etc picking up loads of money from these high population provinces while Julii gets only a 1,000 denarii or so form exterminating the small populations in Gaul.

A quick summarry of my current campaign:

This new campaign on hard has been well hard! I have been reacting to events a lot rather than doing what I pleased as in the first game. All the Spanish provinces have mines except Numantia, so I figured I would try a Spain first strategy with the Julii, take Segesta and Caralis (the missions), Patavium, Mediolanum, Masilia and Narbo and then turn south to take Spain rather than finish of Gaul. Then with Spain secure and population expanding nicely so that by the time of the civil war they will be solidly Julii producing high quality troops and income.

Unfortunately Britain came roaring out of the blocks and have taken a big chunk of Germania and bits of Gaul. I didnt like the idea of a super Britain (my allies) sitting to the north and not suffering from culture penalties so instead I continued attacking the Gauls instead of Spain. Condate is tiny now as first the British captured it, then the Gauls retook it before I came in.

So I waited and built another army to invade Spain, but to the east Brutii overran Greece and Macedon very quickly (20 years it took them, in my first game on medium the Brutii needed about 30 years). So I thought I had better send the army to sneak in and take Corinth and the wonder, but was too late. Then I realized the Scipii had not only taken all of Sicily (they were rubbish in the first game) but were also seiging Thapsus, I sent the Greece expedition to Carthage and then Cirta of the Carthagininans. :wall:

A third smaller army recruited in Narbo and Masilia were then sent south to finish of the Gauls in Numantia and Carthage in Corduba succesfully. So now can I finally invade the Spanish? Nope they are invading me! :D The garrisons of Numantia and Narbo are nonexistant though I have a good army in Corduba and the bulk of the army that went to Africa is now on Palma. I should be able to take Carthago Nova and Osca and the armyt in Alesia watching the Britons can come and relieve Narbo if needed.

Also because Gaul hasnt had a chance to develop, except for Alesia, all the provinces are very poor and without sea trade as all the populations are under 2,000. Financially I am in trouble as the Senate missions have also been ridiculous, eg ten turns to get maps from Germany (the Germans tell my diplomat to get lost)and get a triarii :thumbsdown: , whereas in the first game blockade Carthage/ Lilybaeum/ Syracuse get 5,000 denarii or a quinquireme. :2thumbsup: On top of that I got a plague in Patavium

It has been very interesting being on the backfoot and reacting through out this game, :2thumbsup: and its only 250 BC. I think the civil war will be mammoth with all three ROman factions quite powerful.

Some more questions:

- How can you get a drillmaster or military tribune in the retinue? THe savings on recruitment are substantial.

- Plagues, I shouldnt move troops in or send the garrison and governor out out right?

- Defending sieges, if you have stone walls, what sort of compsition would you want to severely damage an assaulting army? Say the assaluting army is Brutii, so they have typically 3-4 cav, 5 velites/ archers/ baliista and 10-11 principes and hastati. Is it possible to use a city as an enemy stack destroyer? WIll the enemy assault even if the garrison is large?

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- How can you get a drillmaster or military tribune in the retinue? THe savings on recruitment are substantial.

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I always thought getting retinues were random, but I could be wrong, someone correct me if I am.

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- Plagues, I shouldnt move troops in or send the garrison and governor out out right?

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Yeah, don't do that. Spending a sick spy into an enemy city is fun though.

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- Defending sieges, if you have stone walls, what sort of compsition would you want to severely damage an assaulting army? Say the assaluting army is Brutii, so they have typically 3-4 cav, 5 velites/ archers/ baliista and 10-11 principes and hastati. Is it possible to use a city as an enemy stack destroyer? WIll the enemy assault even if the garrison is large?

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A lot of archers never hurt, as they can possibly burn down enemy siege equipment, except for ladders, which aren't trouble. Basically you just need some good fighters on the walls with your archers to handle any body from the ladders or siege towers if you didn't manage to burn them down. The good thing about ladders is that sometimes the archers can handle the enemy because they come off one at a time. But to be sure, you'd want some infantry. For the second question, the AI rarely tries to starve you out, or at least in my experience. Yeah, they will probably assault.

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Originally Posted by Barbarossa82

Surprisingly, some of the most effective troops at bringing down chariots are foot skirmishers such as velites, peltasts and their equivalents. Many of these troops get big bonuses against chariots and will swiftly dispatch them in hand-to-hand combat. Same goes for elephants.

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Oooh...... so is the secret to engage them in melee? I never thought about that. :shame:

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Originally Posted by totalwar092

I always thought getting retinues were random, but I could be wrong, someone correct me if I am.

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Not totally random, I think. To get a military tribune, I'm not sure, but storming a city seems to get one pretty regularly. For drillmaster, I'm not so sure, but I would imagine that it comes from a victory. The only ancillary that I can think of that comes from defeat is an oracle.

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Spending a sick spy into an enemy city is fun though.

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Amen, my friend. :skull:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

Plagues, I shouldnt move troops in or send the garrison and governor out out right?

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Yeah. The thing is to wait it out. It will die out itself within ten turns. In the meantime, quarantine all personnel from the city-- no one comes in, or out. (Except your plague spy, Machievellian :beam: )

Generally I disagree with anything other than M/M, bonuses are unrealistic. However this sounds challenging. I beat the Ai in a VH battle, evenly matched. I was over the moon!!

Drillmaster- looks like you need to train an infantry in a city with a governor that has 4 or more command stars (3% chance)

Military Tribune- need to win a battle with a general that has Roman Virtue trait and 4 or more command stars (20% chance)

Credit to Pooh's RTW database

Just to reinforce. The trick to defeating chariots is to pin them down. They die very quickly when they are bogged down. Just be careful that your men do not break and run as they try to pin the chariots down. Scythed chariots are wonderful targets for fire arrows.

Moving the capital should not have any poor side-effects so long as you keep it in a central location.

Actually, moving your capital when your current capital is mutinious is a bad idea. You know how Parthia starts out with Susa or something like that? Well, I tried to make Antioch the capital to accomodate my growing empire, and Susa promptly went all red-faced. I had to do it gradually-- first Seleucia, then Hatra, then Antioch.

I usually place my capital in my most centrally located provience. That way the public order penalties are not too severe in the outer regions.

Quirinus, it could be because Susa is the farthest city to the right side of the map. You can't expect it not to take a penalty, plus I noticed it's one of those cities that are hard to keep completely happy in the first place.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Quirinus

Actually, moving your capital when your current capital is mutinious is a bad idea. You know how Parthia starts out with Susa or something like that? Well, I tried to make Antioch the capital to accomodate my growing empire, and Susa promptly went all red-faced. I had to do it gradually-- first Seleucia, then Hatra, then Antioch.

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You should have known- it is easy to calculate distance from capital penalty. It was same for Susa as it was for Antioch, I think around 30-40%.

Hello again, I managed to play some more over the weekend and the game is now upto around 235BC.

I have just had a message saying I am very popular wiht the glorious plebs and can make a bid for power against the smelly patricians but I havent had the Marius reforms yet.

The situation is this (north to south):

I have one full stack in Londinium that will soon take Ebaracum and Deva.

One full stack in Monoganticum where I finished of Britains last European province. Plus reasonable half stacks in Trier, Alesia and Sambrovia. THe rest of Gaul and Spain is at peace with only town watch garrisons. All these cities are under 12,000 though Alesia and Corduba can train Principes.

In Italy between the garrisons of Mediolanum, Arretium, Arretium (around 16-20,000) and Patavium (just crossed 24,000) I can probably field a full stack to relieve any city if besieged. But not enough to actually attack Rome and its two stacks. Moving the capital to Masilia had only one downside the loyalty in Patavium and Arminium plunged, the only thing keeping them above 100% are their governor's high influence, but with both approaching 70 years, I am a bit concerned. None of the younger faction members have gone up the Senate offices yet ot accumulate influence.

To the East, I have Segestica, Salona, Aquinicum and Lovsice all undefended, basically town watch and the palisade. All worhtless as well except Segestica. In Campus Iazyges and Porolissum (?) I have two full stacks having just slaughtered Dacia (10,000 denarii from the Senate Missions for them! :2thumbsup: ).

In Africa I have a full stack in Carthage and another on my side of the border west of Thapsus (Scipii). Tingi, Cirta and Dimmi are pacified. I also have Nepte but that is such a worhtless province :thumbsdown: waste of five valuable turns to take it.

I also have a full stack enroute to Crete.

Scipii have four full stacks approximately in Thapsus buit for some reason wont finish of Carhtage now reduced to Lepcis. Tyey also have a full stack in Liliybaeum plus small garrisons in Syracuse, Messina and Capua.

Brutii have Greece, Macedon and Thrace and have just attacked Scythia. In the Thracce -Scythia area they have anything between five and eight fullish stacks, my spy cant keep all of them in sight.

My questions

1) Is it always the player who starts the civil war? Do the other factions ever attack the player to start things off?

2) In terms of strategy, I want to wait a while, my army is mostly hastati, Brutii have a lot of Principes and gladiators. Scipii lots of velites!
But if I fight now, I can hold my own in Italy against Rome.
As for Scipii, my navy is big enough to blocakde all Sicily and in Africa I hope to defend the bridge south of Carthage against the Scipii stacks while sneaking my other stack in behind them to Thapsus afterwards. Is this a good strategy? I am expecting they will go for Carthage right away. Can the AI go for Tingi or Nepte instead?
Brutii I can divert the Crete expedition to Greece and take the undefended and rich cities there and then set up some sort of blocking position on the isthmus I think. The Dacian province I dont care about, so I plan to retreat to Segestica or Patavium shortening my line and borders and hold them there. Then deal wiht them properly after Scipii and Rome are dealt with.

Comments?

3) Civil war will make trade income plummet right? What sort of cash reserve do you try and take in with you? At the moment I have a balance of about 10,000d a turn but almost all of that is used up every turn retraing units and building stuff (ports, temples etc at the 3,200d level).

4) Pontics and Scythians also refuse all diploamtic efforts. Every contact is refused by "Your generosity fools no one! What are you upto?" (Ponts) and "Thats very genererous and we wont be known as thieves" (Scythia) what gives? I am finding it much harder to get money by selling maps on H/H than on M/M. Even teh Senate and the other Roman factions when I ask them to donate offer me 1,200 d but demand tribute of 400d ofr 10 turns (ie 4,000d back).

5) Is there a shortcut to the armies/ cities/ agents scroll? At the moment, I have to hit "O", then the little button on that scroll, then the tick to remove it so that I cna see half the map and the list at the same time. Annoying and tedious, especially as using a diplomat takes the list scroll away.

6) Some of the Barbarian temples are really good for bonusses to weapons and experience. Do any of you keep them? As long as loyalty is above 80% (70%) there arent any riots from what I have seen. So the culture penalty might be worth it I feel.

7) All the guides refer to bribery. I havent succesfully bribed anyone, even the one decent rebel I cam across wiht one unit of peasants and one barbarian cavalry demanded 4,800d (my entire treasury)! Is this something prepatch 1.5?

8) Does the location of the faction leader matter in terms of loyalty or is it just the capital?

9) I kiled them chariots, I killed them good. Two units of velites lined up 7x6 roughly, chariots got stuck one hastati came in from the back. British faction leader with 29 chariots becomes and ex British faction leader. I lost 25 men (of 120 in the three units) in the process. :2thumbsup:

Hullo again ~:wave:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

Is it always the player who starts the civil war? Do the other factions ever attack the player to start things off?

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It's rare for them to start it themselves, but yes, when the conditions are right, they occasionally do. The senate also sometimes outlaws other Roman factions. This can also trigger the beginning of the war without your intervention.

The conditions for the other Romans to declare war are fulfilled when the faction has about eight people popularity shields. The faction is at risk of being outlawed by the senate when they have two or few senate popularity shields.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

2) In terms of strategy, I want to wait a while, my army is mostly hastati, Brutii have a lot of Principes and gladiators. Scipii lots of velites!
But if I fight now, I can hold my own in Italy against Rome.
As for Scipii, my navy is big enough to blocakde all Sicily and in Africa I hope to defend the bridge south of Carthage against the Scipii stacks while sneaking my other stack in behind them to Thapsus afterwards. Is this a good strategy? I am expecting they will go for Carthage right away. Can the AI go for Tingi or Nepte instead?
Brutii I can divert the Crete expedition to Greece and take the undefended and rich cities there and then set up some sort of blocking position on the isthmus I think. The Dacian province I dont care about, so I plan to retreat to Segestica or Patavium shortening my line and borders and hold them there. Then deal wiht them properly after Scipii and Rome are dealt with.

Comments?

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It sounds like a very wise and well though out strategy. The AI may go for one of your other provinces first though, as you have suggested, so you may wish to be cautious around that area.

I do think though you may be considering the civil war a little too early. You only have to worry about it when senate popularity falls lower than two shields for any faction, or popular support rises to about eight shields for any faction. Things could change dramatically between the current situation and the beginning of the civil war - probably resulting in a completly new tactic having to be devised.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

3) Civil war will make trade income plummet right? What sort of cash reserve do you try and take in with you? At the moment I have a balance of about 10,000d a turn but almost all of that is used up every turn retraing units and building stuff (ports, temples etc at the 3,200d level).

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Oddly, for me at least, it never seems to fall too dramatically - more income is typically lost from other Romans blockading your ports than from actually loss of external trade itself. By the civil war stage your own ports/markets usually have the ability to trade to a sufficient level with each other anyhow, which probably explains the very small falls.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

4) Pontics and Scythians also refuse all diploamtic efforts. Every contact is refused by "Your generosity fools no one! What are you upto?" (Ponts) and "Thats very genererous and we wont be known as thieves" (Scythia) what gives? I am finding it much harder to get money by selling maps on H/H than on M/M. Even teh Senate and the other Roman factions when I ask them to donate offer me 1,200 d but demand tribute of 400d ofr 10 turns (ie 4,000d back).

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That's the curse of the Hard and Very Hard AI - fair diplomatic treaties can be almost impossible to get your hands on, despite the logic there may be behind them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

5) Is there a shortcut to the armies/ cities/ agents scroll? At the moment, I have to hit "O", then the little button on that scroll, then the tick to remove it so that I cna see half the map and the list at the same time. Annoying and tedious, especially as using a diplomat takes the list scroll away.

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Not that I know of. Sorry ~:(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

6) Some of the Barbarian temples are really good for bonusses to weapons and experience. Do any of you keep them? As long as loyalty is above 80% (70%) there arent any riots from what I have seen. So the culture penalty might be worth it I feel.

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I always use them for a turn (sending nearby troops in for the bonus) and then bulldozering them, although not due to the culture penalty they inflict, but more due to my obsession with "law" temples.

Temples which provide benefits to law combat the most annoying factor in R:TW - distance to capital penalty. This has contributes to corruption (which provides income deductions) and negative happiness. Unlike all other factors, law removes two problems in one go, providing a richer and happier settlement.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

7) All the guides refer to bribery. I havent succesfully bribed anyone, even the one decent rebel I cam across wiht one unit of peasants and one barbarian cavalry demanded 4,800d (my entire treasury)! Is this something prepatch 1.5?

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No, although 4,800 denarii is a fairly low cost for a bribe. Bribes of large forces with captains cost about 20,000 denarii, while bribes of a typical large force with a family member ups it to closer to 100,000 denarii or more (depending upon traits).

Early on though, bribes cannot usually be afforded by any factions - its only when the treasury really begins to expand (about 20 - 25 regions or more) do bribes become a truly viable option. On even later stages in the game's progression, by the time the treasury is almost infinite, bribes can become a day to thing and can frequently be used without the risk of money problems. By this stage, bribes are an invaluable tool against anything any faction can throw at you and, under some circumstances, can replace the usage of an extra force to conquer and defend against the enemy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

8) Does the location of the faction leader matter in terms of loyalty or is it just the capital?

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In R:TW it's just the capitals location which effects overall loyalty and levels of corruption.

~:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

1) Is it always the player who starts the civil war? Do the other factions ever attack the player to start things off?

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Just thought I'd add that sometimes, even though they don't necessarily start the war, the AI cunningly positions armies all around your lands (ie. taking advantage of your military alliance.

The last Roman campaign I did, (a while ago now) the Brutii seeded about 6 full stacks throughout Illyria, Italian Gaul, Picenum and Umbria, not to mention turning Greece into an industrilialised troop production line, as soon as my Senate popularity began to drop. At first I didn't believe it, the AI having a good long-term, albeit blinding obvious, strategy. When I was finally outlawed it took over a decade for Marcus Perpena (not a traitor this time round :laugh4: ) and Quintus Labienus (ditto... :laugh4: and no joke I really did have both of them :2thumbsup: ) to clear the Brutii out of my lands. Due to me actually noticing it didn't set me back too far, as I landed my faction leader and his veteran Iberian army next to Rome itself and took it quickly, but it was a pain!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

2) In terms of strategy, I want to wait a while, my army is mostly hastati, Brutii have a lot of Principes and gladiators. Scipii lots of velites!
But if I fight now, I can hold my own in Italy against Rome.
As for Scipii, my navy is big enough to blocakde all Sicily and in Africa I hope to defend the bridge south of Carthage against the Scipii stacks while sneaking my other stack in behind them to Thapsus afterwards. Is this a good strategy? I am expecting they will go for Carthage right away. Can the AI go for Tingi or Nepte instead?
Brutii I can divert the Crete expedition to Greece and take the undefended and rich cities there and then set up some sort of blocking position on the isthmus I think. The Dacian province I dont care about, so I plan to retreat to Segestica or Patavium shortening my line and borders and hold them there. Then deal wiht them properly after Scipii and Rome are dealt with.

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Sounds good, but I usually just wait for the war to be provoked, build up your forces and infrastructure and wait for the Senate to get overly paranoid.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

3) Civil war will make trade income plummet right? What sort of cash reserve do you try and take in with you? At the moment I have a balance of about 10,000d a turn but almost all of that is used up every turn retraing units and building stuff (ports, temples etc at the 3,200d level).

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It would make sense for trade to come to a complete stop, but as Omanes has already said there really isn't that much of a drop, you might have to cut down on your building program for a short period, but unless you get massacred by the your fellow Romans you should be able to maintain your armies well enough.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

) Pontics and Scythians also refuse all diploamtic efforts. Every contact is refused by "Your generosity fools no one! What are you upto?" (Ponts) and "Thats very genererous and we wont be known as thieves" (Scythia) what gives? I am finding it much harder to get money by selling maps on H/H than on M/M. Even teh Senate and the other Roman factions when I ask them to donate offer me 1,200 d but demand tribute of 400d ofr 10 turns (ie 4,000d back).

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AI...:dizzy2:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

6) Some of the Barbarian temples are really good for bonusses to weapons and experience. Do any of you keep them? As long as loyalty is above 80% (70%) there arent any riots from what I have seen. So the culture penalty might be worth it I feel.

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Sometimes I roleplay being magnamious and let the Barbarians keep there precious sacred groves etc. However I don't go out of my way to keep the temples that have bonuses. Then again it can be useful, so if you think its worth it then go for it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

7) All the guides refer to bribery. I havent succesfully bribed anyone, even the one decent rebel I cam across wiht one unit of peasants and one barbarian cavalry demanded 4,800d (my entire treasury)! Is this something prepatch 1.5?

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Bribery as a rule isn't cheap :no: but when you have money isn't an object then its useful in getting rid of an enemy that you can't deal with by force (don't have an army that can get there in time). In the civil war you can use it to gain enemy troops as you have the same unit roster, so once you start winning and you have enough money then start bribing the reinforcing armies led by captains, its expensive but its what they call in football a six-pointer, gaining troops and depriving the enemy of troops simultaneously.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

8) Does the location of the faction leader matter in terms of loyalty or is it just the capital?

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Don't think so, thought it was just the capital.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

9) I kiled them chariots, I killed them good. Two units of velites lined up 7x6 roughly, chariots got stuck one hastati came in from the back. British faction leader with 29 chariots becomes and ex British faction leader. I lost 25 men (of 120 in the three units) in the process. :2thumbsup:

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Well done! Deprive them of their momentum and massacre them! :skull:

For foreign temples, I usually only keep them if they give a bonus of +2 experience and above. Only a +1 to experience isn't worth it, in my opinion. And I generally keep only one of these temples in each region, for example, if there is already an awesome temple of Nike in Sparta or a Sacred grove of Epona in Samarobiva, I won't keep any other of these experience-boosting temples in Greece and Gaul, respectively.

I occasionally also keep temples that give +3 bonus to missiles, but only in one city, which then becomes a specialised archer/onager-producing city.


I've never actually seen another faction get powerful enough to initiate the civil war-- I usually get there first, and I prefer to start the war on my own terms and march to Rome first.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Omanes Alexendrapolites

Temples which provide benefits to law combat the most annoying factor in R:TW - distance to capital penalty. This has contributes to corruption (which provides income deductions) and negative happiness. Unlike all other factors, law removes two problems in one go, providing a richer and happier settlement.

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Ooh, I didn't know that....

I keep no temples of other factions.I may be missing out, I don't know. I don't suppose that a faction would let the settlement worship their own gods. Especially not one like the Romans. Prove me wrong please.

I don't have any proof for you Tom0, but I know that the Romans tolerated Judaism for a period of time in Judea itself, up until the revolt that Vespasian put down. They allowed the worship what became Magna Mater (I don't remember the original name) in their provinces in Asia Minor. They may not of officially approved of other religions, but they allowed worship to continue generally.

One exception was the Druids of Gaul and Britain, apart from the fact that Druids were a powerful force in tribal politics and were against roman rule, the Romans objected to human sacrifice and tried to stamp it out.

Same as carthaginian sacrifices? Was that one of the reasons they went to war?

I don't think so, but I'm not a historian. And I didn't say it was a reason for war,just that when they began to take control they wanted to stamp it out.

But off topic, so...

In my current (Pontic) campaign, fairly early on and not mindlessly expanding, I accept Hellenic temples due to the fact that Pontus was orginally little more than a clutch of Greek colonies around the Black sea. ie. for role-playing reasons. (It my first campaign putting a conscious effort into being semi-realistic... so if I'm way off correct me).

Edit: spelling error

I have taken the campaign up to 220BC. Its slow going, with battles one turn takes upto an hour and I cannot squeeze more into a day :(.

When I last posted I thought civil war was imminent. I had just had the chance for power message and popularity levels were:
Julii: Senate 5, People 8
Brutii: Sen 7, Pop 4.
Scipii: Sen 6, Pop 2.

Since then I killed of the Carthage faction members in battle after which the Scipii (very slowly) moved to take the rebel Lepcis. I didnt want a border with Egypt so I had left it alone. I have also wiped out Germania and now have 44 province. Brutii have almost finished of Scythia and to the East, Egypt has everything except two Armenian and Pontic provinces and Parthian province up in the steppes. Scipii have Capua, Sicilt, Thapsus and Lepcis.

I have overtaken Brutii as the major military power and just about edging out egypt financially (though the senate is still the richest according to the chart) since taking Rhodes and the Colossus.

Questions:
1.
The senate standings now are:
Julii: Senate 7, People 10.
Brutii: Sen 8, Pop 6.
Scipii: Sen 6, Pop 4.

So civil war seems unlikely. The Senate gave me missions against Germany so my popularity recovered. Now they have told me to attack Egypt but combined with threats instead of gifts as before. I have Halicarnussus and am on the way to Sardis and Pergamum and so should get to the 50 province mark soon. Will this trigger Civil War, whatever the Senate standings?

2. I used spy who accidentally caught teh plague when I sent him to spy on Rome to conduct bioligical warfare against Egypt. Alexandria, Memphis and Thebes have populations of around 14,000 down form 30,000. I combined this with an assasin destroying temples and execution squares. But despite the popularity levels in the cities dropping to 20% they wont revolt, though rebels did appear.

Even 0% loyalty doesnt seem to trigger revolts, I have had three assasin-spy team murdering and commiting arson everywhere south of Rome, one assasin destroys the Temple, another the sewers and the third the Ampitheatre. Two spies infiltrate and voila loyalty is down to zero. Scipii/ Brutii garrisons are tiny (6 units max), but no revolt.

Is this an AI aid - that no AI city will revolt, however low the loyalty? Has anyone actually tried to bring the AI to its knees using sabotage? I loved doing this in Shogun with shinobi and with imams in MTW (Turks were my favourite faction). Also I have noticed, initially the Scipii and Brutii would fix the damaged buildings straight away, but now some are left unrepaired. I hope this means they are low on funds! :thumbsup:

3. Are there no "arsoninst", "skilled saboteur" etc line of traits for assasins? Its a shame if the only way they can improve is by murder.

4. You know how the player can see everyhting the Roman allies can see, does this include what their spies report?

5. In training my assasins, I have slaughterd may 15-20 Scipii and Brutii captains and a bunch of family members. So far none have been caught but doesnt the AI become suspicious and take countermeasures and hire its own spies? I have come across Gallic, British, Carthaginian and German spies but no Romans.

6. In Shogun, killing a captain reduced the unit size by one. This doesnt seem to happen in RTW. Is this right? Is there a reason?

7. Also in Shogun ninja's levels went up after 1, 2 , 4, 8,16, 32 etc succesful jobs. Is there a similar pattern in RTW (I havent noticed it)? Does the status of the victim and likelihood of success effect whether the assasin is promoted or not?

8. In terms of more overt conspiracies, rebels are a nuisance.While I dont mind beating them up (I prefer small 6-12 unit battles to the massive 20 unit ones), is there a way to automatically warn the player when they appear? Since I usually use the arrows to go from one city screen to another, I dont always look at the map and so somethimes miss them, losing money in the process.

9. The Brutii have a unit "first legionary cohort" which is bigger 61 men and has a little eagle insiginia. How can I make train them? I can train urban cohorts in Patavium and Carthage and I dont think I can improve the barracks any further :unsure: Apologies if I am asking something really dumb that is clearly shown on the tech tree.

10. The Marian reforms, do they happen as soon as one faction finishes an imperial palace (24,000 population level)? Also all the Romans are upgrading their armies, except the Senate. They still only hae the startung hastati-principes-velite combo. Do they ever improve thier army?

11. Finally the Germans were surprisingly tough, their phalanx spearmen (!) and chosen axemen gave me some hairy moments. In the first battle against them, it was winter and thier army sallied from Damme while another tried to raise my siege.

I had misread the map and posiitoned my army on the left with my first two Marian (early cohorts) on the right, with Hastati and Principes making up the main line. The plain was the Marians would advance at double speed with cavalry and knock out the city garrison while the Hastati held off the relief army. The victorious Marians would then swing round and roll up the relief army.

Unfortunately the garrison appeard in the woods behind me and their axemen, spearmen and chosen archers proceeded to beat up my Marians who despite their longer than anticipated march were still "fresh"! They had to be reinforced and with all my focus on this battle in the woods, the main battle didnt go too well either. My general finally managed to kill the garrison army's general and they then routed.

But in the main battle my men were wavering and in despair, I ordered the Hastati and Principes all to simply march forward right into the middle of the Germans. The spearbands in front immediately collapsed (I guess they had been wavering too) and their general very obligingly charged a unit of my Triarri and got barbequed :D This was the closest I have come to defeat so far!

Anyway, the spearbands are definitely far more effective then the Gaulish or British warbands. How come the Germans are unable to beat Gaul or Britain? Or is it just that I havent played enough (two games only so far)?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tom0

I keep no temples of other factions.I may be missing out, I don't know. I don't suppose that a faction would let the settlement worship their own gods. Especially not one like the Romans. Prove me wrong please.

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Most polytheistic civilisations were tolerant of the pagan gods of their subjects, usually drawing equivalences, Jupiter-Zeus-Amon etc. Genrally only if the religion gave a politcial challenge it was a problem, though AFAIK Caesar largely left the Gaulish druids alone even though they were heavily involved with Vercingetorix. Later the druids were stomped out but because they kept human sacrifice and leading rebellions. Christians (after RTWs timeframe anyway) were persecuted because they refused even token adherence to the imperial cult of deified emperors and Nero established the policy of persecuting tehm as they were a convenient scape goat for the fire in Rome.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

I have taken the campaign up to 220BC. Its slow going, with battles one turn takes upto an hour and I cannot squeeze more into a day :(.

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Haha, that happens. I usually play only five to ten years in a weekend, and sometimes less: I only played one year this weekend! D:

Quote:

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1.
The senate standings now are:
Julii: Senate 7, People 10.
Brutii: Sen 8, Pop 6.
Scipii: Sen 6, Pop 4.

So civil war seems unlikely. The Senate gave me missions against Germany so my popularity recovered. Now they have told me to attack Egypt but combined with threats instead of gifts as before. I have Halicarnussus and am on the way to Sardis and Pergamum and so should get to the 50 province mark soon. Will this trigger Civil War, whatever the Senate standings?

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Nope, but to win the game you will have to attack Rome, and since Rome doesn't rebel when at low public order, the only way is to take Rome by force-- i.e. initiating the civil war.

Your popularity with the Senate is impressive, considering that you mentioned that you have 44 territories now. Senate standing generally increases as you gain territories up till 35, after which gaining additional territories, even at the Senate's order, will make you lose popularity.

Quote:

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2. I used spy who accidentally caught teh plague when I sent him to spy on Rome to conduct bioligical warfare against Egypt. Alexandria, Memphis and Thebes have populations of around 14,000 down form 30,000. I combined this with an assasin destroying temples and execution squares. But despite the popularity levels in the cities dropping to 20% they wont revolt, though rebels did appear.

Even 0% loyalty doesnt seem to trigger revolts, I have had three assasin-spy team murdering and commiting arson everywhere south of Rome, one assasin destroys the Temple, another the sewers and the third the Ampitheatre. Two spies infiltrate and voila loyalty is down to zero. Scipii/ Brutii garrisons are tiny (6 units max), but no revolt.

Is this an AI aid - that no AI city will revolt, however low the loyalty? Has anyone actually tried to bring the AI to its knees using sabotage? I loved doing this in Shogun with shinobi and with imams in MTW (Turks were my favourite faction). Also I have noticed, initially the Scipii and Brutii would fix the damaged buildings straight away, but now some are left unrepaired. I hope this means they are low on funds! :thumbsup:

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That's odd, actually. I've succeeded a few times in creating civil unrest in a rival faction's city by planting spies and destroying their temples and other happiness buildings. I've also seen Alexandria (and then Thebes) revolt from Egypt and Tanais from Scythia before without my intervention, presumably from population pressure. And yes, I guess after repairing it a few times they figured: ah, it's going to get blown up again the next turn anyway, what's the point. :beam:

Quote:

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3. Are there no "arsoninst", "skilled saboteur" etc line of traits for assasins? Its a shame if the only way they can improve is by murder.

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Yes, I was quite annoyed by this too-- though apparently you can get trait decreases or negative traits if you fail in sabotage. =(

Quote:

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4. You know how the player can see everyhting the Roman allies can see, does this include what their spies report?

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Yes, and curiously, this continues even after civil war is initiated.

Quote:

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5. In training my assasins, I have slaughterd may 15-20 Scipii and Brutii captains and a bunch of family members. So far none have been caught but doesnt the AI become suspicious and take countermeasures and hire its own spies? I have come across Gallic, British, Carthaginian and German spies but no Romans.

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Haha, yeah...... well, I've noticed it too. I mean, if there's always a suspicious guy in red when your promising young sons start to pop off, a connection should've been made. :laugh4:

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6. In Shogun, killing a captain reduced the unit size by one. This doesnt seem to happen in RTW. Is this right? Is there a reason?

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Yes, this is very annoying. Captains seem to appear out of nowhere. Which isn't usually a problem on large unit scale, but if the captain happens to be in an elephant unit, he gets an extra elephant (IIRC). How unfair! Also, in those cases where the assassin wants to whittle down the size of, say, a lone unit of gladiators, this is not possible. Bleh.

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7. Also in Shogun ninja's levels went up after 1, 2 , 4, 8,16, 32 etc succesful jobs. Is there a similar pattern in RTW (I havent noticed it)? Does the status of the victim and likelihood of success effect whether the assasin is promoted or not?

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Actually, I'm not sure of that myself. It seems to me that it doesn't matter a jot whether your victim was a king of kings or the captain of a lowly peasant unit, only your number of kills.

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8. In terms of more overt conspiracies, rebels are a nuisance.While I dont mind beating them up (I prefer small 6-12 unit battles to the massive 20 unit ones), is there a way to automatically warn the player when they appear? Since I usually use the arrows to go from one city screen to another, I dont always look at the map and so somethimes miss them, losing money in the process.

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Same here. I find 20-unit battles a bit of a handful, actually.

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9. The Brutii have a unit "first legionary cohort" which is bigger 61 men and has a little eagle insiginia. How can I make train them? I can train urban cohorts in Patavium and Carthage and I dont think I can improve the barracks any further :unsure: Apologies if I am asking something really dumb that is clearly shown on the tech tree.

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I think you have to train them in Italy Proper.... but don't quote me on that. :sweatdrop:

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10. The Marian reforms, do they happen as soon as one faction finishes an imperial palace (24,000 population level)? Also all the Romans are upgrading their armies, except the Senate. They still only hae the startung hastati-principes-velite combo. Do they ever improve thier army?

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I think a player finishing an imperial palace simply means that every turn, they will start rolling the probability for the occurence of the Marian Reforms. Can't quite answer the second part of your question, even though I've never noticed the Senate using legionary cohorts.

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11. Anyway, the spearbands are definitely far more effective then the Gaulish or British warbands. How come the Germans are unable to beat Gaul or Britain? Or is it just that I havent played enough (two games only so far)?

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That's because, I think, the auto-resolve function, which is used for all AI vs AI battles, doesn't factor in the phalanx. That's also why the Seleucids always lose to Pontus in Asia Minor, though they're relatively easy to fight if you play as the Seleucids yourself.

:bow:

The extra elephant with a captain is interesting. Also while playing as Macedon I repeatedly sent my spy into Sparta resulting in riots every other turn. Although it did not revolt the reduced Spartans were easier to handle.

A nice touch is that, if Sparta revolted, the rebels would be called "Helot Rebels".

To add to what Quirinus has said:

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

Even 0% loyalty doesnt seem to trigger revolts, I have had three assasin-spy team murdering and commiting arson everywhere south of Rome, one assasin destroys the Temple, another the sewers and the third the Ampitheatre. Two spies infiltrate and voila loyalty is down to zero. Scipii/ Brutii garrisons are tiny (6 units max), but no revolt.

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It sounds like you are playing on a harder difficulty level. In this case making the AI settlements fall into dissent is painfully difficult, nigh impossible on Very Hard.

Sadly, the only solution is to change the difficulty level. Do bear in mind that this will also change other factors in the game which provide the AI benefits. You can "modify" the difficulty of the game using the RomeSage saved game editing tool.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

5. In training my assasins, I have slaughterd may 15-20 Scipii and Brutii captains and a bunch of family members. So far none have been caught but doesnt the AI become suspicious and take countermeasures and hire its own spies? I have come across Gallic, British, Carthaginian and German spies but no Romans.

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Nope, the Romans don't usually involve themselves in agent actions with their fellow Romans until the civil war has begun. Until then they oddly ignore the fact that their family is gradually getting obliterated by your hired murderers.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

9. The Brutii have a unit "first legionary cohort" which is bigger 61 men and has a little eagle insiginia. How can I make train them? I can train urban cohorts in Patavium and Carthage and I dont think I can improve the barracks any further :unsure: Apologies if I am asking something really dumb that is clearly shown on the tech tree.

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They are only trainable in Rome after the Marian reforms, although they can also be granted as a gift from the senate for the completing of senatorial missions.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

10. The Marian reforms, do they happen as soon as one faction finishes an imperial palace (24,000 population level)?

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The reforms are automatically triggered whenever an Imperial Palace is built anywhere in Italy/Scilly excluding Rome. The definition of Italy extends to the Northern Italian provinces which start out under Gallic control.

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

Also all the Romans are upgrading their armies, except the Senate. They still only hae the startung hastati-principes-velite combo. Do they ever improve thier army?

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Sadly they usually don't - the senate rapidly train a large number of forces prior to the civil war and usually stop training just after the reforms - by then they're reached the maximum number of troops they are willing to support. The AI doesn't know how to disband its troops, and not using these built up forces in any wars prevents them from having to replace any lost men with the marian style of troop.

~:)

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Originally Posted by Quirinus

Your popularity with the Senate is impressive, considering that you mentioned that you have 44 territories now. Senate standing generally increases as you gain territories up till 35, after which gaining additional territories, even at the Senate's order, will make you lose popularity.

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When I got the first "power" message I had around 30+ provinces and popularity was 4 senate, 8 people. Then there were a bunch of missions, take Damme, take Iuvanum, Vicus Macromanii etc. I conquered the Germans in about 10 turns, ffullfilling a senate mission every other turn. The coincidence between my plans and the senate missions was unbelievable, not that I am complaining as the mission in the early stages were nigh on impossible to complete, eg get maps from Germany. Either way the Senate was definitely suffering from Teuton-mania!

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Originally Posted by Quirinus

Yes, and curiously, this continues even after civil war is initiated.

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Can we actually see their spies and can they see mine? I know I can see other factions spies if I have a spy very close to them.
If I cant see their spies, but I have access to what the spies report, could a clever player figure out the spies locations by seeing whihc areas are visible even though there are no faction agents present on the map?

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Originally Posted by Quirinus

Yes, this is very annoying. Captains seem to appear out of nowhere. Which isn't usually a problem on large unit scale, but if the captain happens to be in an elephant unit, he gets an extra elephant (IIRC). How unfair! Also, in those cases where the assassin wants to whittle down the size of, say, a lone unit of gladiators, this is not possible. Bleh.

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Isnt the default captain someone in the cavalry?

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Originally Posted by Quirinus

That's because, I think, the auto-resolve function, which is used for all AI vs AI battles, doesn't factor in the phalanx. That's also why the Seleucids always lose to Pontus in Asia Minor, though they're relatively easy to fight if you play as the Seleucids yourself.

:bow:

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Auto resolve suck.

Thanks for all the many replies everyone and putting up with my incredibly long posts.

I am now Romes dictator!

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Originally Posted by o_loompah_the_delayer

Can we actually see their spies and can they see mine? I know I can see other factions spies if I have a spy very close to them.
If I cant see their spies, but I have access to what the spies report, could a clever player figure out the spies locations by seeing whihc areas are visible even though there are no faction agents present on the map?

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Actually, good point. I think you can only see their diplomats and what they see. Though I don't think the other Romans use spies and diplomats a lot anyway.

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Auto resolve suck.

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Only when you're a phalanx faction. It's good when you're a Roman faction or a faction that has chariots.

Quirinus, I'd just like to point out that when a captain is a member of an elephant unit, they don't get an extra elephant, he just rides the elephant with another rider. That's what happens in v1.5 at least, I'm unaware of what happens in other versions.

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Isnt the default captain someone in the cavalry?

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No, not necessarily.

I see...... my bad. I just saw a captain on an elephant and made that conclusion.