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  1. #1

    Default Re: Sicily

    Sicilians are actually by far my favourite faction that I've played so far. They're tons of fun I find and the reasons are fourfold.

    1) Very low defense requirements. No one can really hit you early on.
    2) Massively rich, mostly by trading from Sicily and/or Naples.
    3) Tons of opening time due to #1.
    4) Tremendously flexible.

    Here's my Sicily opening on Hard, GA.

    In the opening turn, build a watch tower in each province and move an opening barque into the Maltese channel. On turn two, leave a hundred men in Malta and move your king and the mismatched spears to Sicily and leave a hundred peasants. With a decent governor, the combination of the garrison and the tower will crest Malta just above 100% on Very High. There is no need even to build a border fort though by all means, build one, it's only 200 florins and as we'll discover, you have tons of time and tons of money. Thereafter, if you have autoset taxes on (usually command line my taxes to 105% or 110% loyalty) there's no need to worry about Malta besides to keep buildings in the queue. I'd build towards a shipwright, sneaking 20% and 40% farms in along the way.

    Assuming you start in Early, no one but the Italians stand a chance of hitting you early, and they almost certainly won't, unless things go really wrong for the Germans (which presumeably lowers Italian defence requirements enough for them to contemplate hitting you). The Byzantines are extremely weak in Naples and the province actually stands a reasonable chance of going rebel near the start. At Hard and above, the UM that spawn will overwhelm the small garrison there. If that happens, that's a great boon since you can nail it without getting into conflict with Constantinople's fleet. If not, that's fine, you don't need to rush it and if you want to rush it you can do it easily. The Byz will take ages before building a fort there. Or a port. And longer to get their shipping lanes out that far. Likewise, Malta will be untouchable for a while to everyone, including yourself since your opening boats won't be there long.

    In fact, I've found in the majority of games, the Sicilian player is not obligated to build anything except tons and tons of boats and tons and tons of economic upgrades out of Sicily for like two decades. Go ahead and throw the florins for 80% farms. The earlier you do it, the more it earns you in the long run. If you arrange the boats and get a trading post started turn 2 (after the tower), you can get trading money from the ports near Genoa flowing into your coffers by turn 4. If you're fortunate enough to start with an acumen 3 or 4 guy, you can be generating thousands from Sicily alone. Just build nothing but ships and take every advantage of the Sicilians' ability to totally skimp on defense in the first decades. I usually aim to get the Ligurean Sea, then around to the Adriatic as both these areas have lots of ports. Best of all, often only the one in Naples will be Byzantine, in case you know, Naples doesn't go rebel and you have to take it the hard way by the time the GA points from it start mattering. After that, I usually get a ship back into the Malta Channel, then down to the coast of Tunisia, (which will soon become important.)

    Early on, all you need is enough troops around to discourage the Byz from hitting you. In most cases, you'll soon be up to 61 or more royal knights on top of your 200 spears: far more than enough and it will be a while before the Byzantines are building anything in Naples. Which means initially, you don't need to build a ground army at all. If you do need defence, I don't know why you'd bother with spears. Even if the Byz start kicking ass, they have far better places to send their horse to and it's not like spearmen stand a chance in hell of stopping kitties. I imagine UM would serve you better against Byzfantry but again, this will almost certainly not be necessary until you feel like taking Naples, which you can do anytime before the Byzantines get strong there. Once you grab Naples, the only land border you have is the Pope, who has very little aggression.

    The one other thing you do need is naval superiority. First against the Byzantines in the central med and later (duh) against everyone everywhere. In most cases, arranging your opening barques near Naples will be enough as they hold up very well against galleys in my experience. (And you don't care if they're in the area, just so long as you are too, to prevent them from reinforcing Naples). I don't enjoy going to war with the Byzantines though, since it potentially screws up later possibilities, the major one of which is shipping into the Black Sea to grab Khazar. I love Khazar.

    Sicily's job is really to make money and you can make a lot of money off Sicily so long as you stay at peace with the Italians. One thing to exploit is that the Italians tend to build most of the ports in the opening turns. Since you're selling to each port, this is very good for you, so long as you remain at peace with the Doge. Sicily's position makes it perfect for generating money off those early ports in the central med. Malta on the other hand, with fewer economic upgrades to worry about, should just hit 80% farming, and then start building towards knights. Not that you can build Hospital knights, but you can always use knights, and they being the most complex of units to tech up to, starting early will help. By contrast, Sicily and Naples build simpler units - Sarges, Arrows, MAA.

    Unless things go wrong, the Sicilian king will find his coffers full as Sicily becomes the richest province in the world, and his options limitless if he's playing GA. Sicily gets tons of points just for homelands which initially are just Sicily itself, and Malta. After some turns of generating tons of cash off Sicily with minimal military upkeep to worry about, you can do any number of things so long as you bear in mind that you A) need Tunisia and Naples and B) need a crusade to Palestine.

    A rebel Naples is awesome for Sicily. With proper development, Naples itself is very wealthy. I usually just bribe whoever holds the place to simplify things. If it does involve war with the Byzantines, I'd try suing for peace immediately. If denied, I'd sink the Byzantine fleet, invade Constaninople, and hold it down profitably and THEN try to sue for peace again and again. Either way, Naples IMO, should be the first target.

    You also need Tunisia and I find the early 12th century a perfect time to do it. Spain and Almohad have generally had time to beat the crap out of each other by then and the Tunisia garrison is often skimpy. Just sweep in from the sea and wash up at Morocco. Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia are fairly wealthy provinces and easy to defend. If built up, Sicily will be the richest guys in Europe, holding just these six provinces.

    When that's done, all you need to do to get ahead in points is the highly valuable Palestine crusade. So go ahead, raise an army - and you can afford a lavishly equipped one now - and teleport it over to palestine on your rowboats.

  2. #2
    Man behind the screen Member Empirate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sicily

    I'm playing a Sicilian campaign right now (VI, hard, GA), using your advice: I just took Naples and after that, did nothing much except for massive economic, and, to this end, shipbuilding. After I had established a network of fleets in every sea, I just put every heir I got into Naples and that was that. I was making around 9000 florins in profit in the end (the end being my war with the French, more on that later). I also trained bishops, later cardinals, and sent them out to convert the world, and also to keep tabs on the potential opposition. Absolutely nobody wanted to go to war with me. The Byzantine auto-ceasefired, as we had no contact after I had taken Naples. I never realized how awesome Naples could be as a trading province, easily making 3000 fl per turn with a good governor. It was quite overshadowed by Sicily itself, though, which at one point (when no coastal rebel provinces remained) made more than 7300! Both figures with highest farming and trade building and an eight-feather-governor, of course...
    With my family multiplying, my standing army soon consisted of around twelve to fourteen regiments of Royal Knights plus the mismatched spearmen you get in the beginning. These I sent on a daring foray into Constantinople, which was rebel, because the Emperor had just died of a disease with no heirs. Unfortunately, I had to withdraw them when I realized I could not hold the province with so few men. Other than this short-lived adventure, I just sat tight and made ridiculous amounts of money. Around 1280, I had a million. Owning just three provinces, I had a million! Nobody ever bothered to get into a war with me, no sinking of fleets, no nothing. I was too insignificant, and too hard to get to, the Pope sitting squat in the way of any potential invading armies. This is actually a huge advantage: You can expand by sea, if you want to, but by land, nobody can easily invade you. Twice, the Germans kicked out the Pope, their large armies sitting on my northern borders, ready to invade, but the Pope returned with large numbers and shoved them back again.
    Having a million and slowly running out of building options, I decided to build an army like the world hadn't seen, then invade somewhere challenging. I was (barely) leading in GA points, just by sitting on my homeland provinces like a hen on its egg. The Germans were very powerful for a while, and actually outscored me, but they disintegrated under the onslaught of the most powerful France I have ever seen (when AI-controlled...). Spain had swallowed most everything that had once been Almohad territory, but the Egyptians firmly held them back. A while later, the French began invading Iberia, finally managing to secure all of it, destroying the Spanish in the process. Byzantium had been absurdly huge (reaching up to Moscow and Prussia), but as mentioned, stopped being a faction. Poland picked up the pieces and actually held Constantinople for a short while, before being mostly destroyed by rebels and the opportunistic Hungarians. The Golden Horde had meanwhile conquered everything east of Volhynia and north of Armenia (as they seem bound to do). The French sent several crusades and conquered everything up to Tripoli, where they were stopped by the Turks, the Egyptians and the returned Byzantines. They had wiped out the Germans and so had basically the western half of the map.
    I had been building gold-armored Chivalric Knights in Malta, gold-armored Halberdiers in Sicily (plus church, monastery, reliquary, cathedral for their weak morale), and gold-armored Arbalesters in Naples. My plan was: Invade the French somewhere they have large armies, defeat and kill as many men as possible to lower loyalty, basically deliver a shock that sends them into civil war as quickly as possible. My chance came when the Spanish reemerged and fought for their ancient homelands in Iberia. For a few turns, they could establish themselves there, then the French sent in large armies and killed the heirless king in battle. Cordoba went rebel, as well as Portugal and Leon. I quickly moved in and secured Cordoba, while the French took the rest.
    My main objective here was to get my unbeatably armies (four stacks all told) into direct contact to a lot of French territory with a lot of French soldiers in it, without winning a naval war of attrition first. Galleys simply can't stand up to Caravels, except in numbers, and I didn't have many more ships than I actually needed to keep a little trade going and my homeland protected.
    Despite losing on the high seas at first, my armies made astounding progress in Iberia. The first turn of the war, I took Portugal, Granada and Morocco without a fight. Two turns later (after castle-storming), it was Leon and Castile, again without a fight. The French just kept withdrawing, even when they outnumbered my high-tech armies by two or three to one. The only casualties I had was in sieges, and as the French never just abandoned a province but left as many men as fit in the castle, these mostly lasted one turn, thus costing the French many more troops than me. This was necessary, though, as I couldn't reinforce by sea. It took a while to decimate the French navy, and I only made it with a lot of Byzantine help. Still, on land the pattern kept up: I invaded, French withdrew into castle. Two turns later, my slightly diminished armies would go onward, only to find the French retreating again. By now, my border provinces are Frisonia, Lotharingia, Burgundy, Milan, Provence; Wessex; Tunisia; and of course Naples. All this in less than twenty turns. Despite having almost no trade anymore (I was just barely able to keep open the route from Sicily to the Black Sea), my treasury is coming near 1.3 million fl, and I'm recruiting like crazy. The French even invaded Naples once, and suffered a very narrow defeat. But mostly, they just withdrew.
    Lesson learned: Sitting tight is so easy with Sicily, it's laughable. And building a super-army is no fun at all: You don't get to see those guys in action, the enemy always withdraws.
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  3. #3
    " Hammer of the East" Member King Kurt's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sicily

    For a more exciting Sicilian adventure, try a High start. I am currently in the midst of such a campaign and it is a real rollercoaster. I have lost and regained Sicily and Naples, have had Constantinopole as my capital from about 15 years into the campaign. I have had allies from England to the Horde. There have been 2 or 3 moments when I thought all was going to crash around me, but I have managed to get through it and emerge stronger. This is all detailed in a thread in the MTW Main Hall called "see Naples and die".
    https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/showthread.php?t=65937
    Currently I am war with the Russians, the English, the Horde, the Spanish - who have just been excommed - the Eggyies and the Hungarians. Also the Pope takes the occasional swipe - but I usually let him have the province to avoid trouble. My Empire dominates the eastern Med from Egypt round to Naples and is begining to stretch up into the Steppes. I am about 4th on the GA stakes but intend to take out those in front of me to climb the ladder. It has been one of the most enjoyable campaigns I have played because there is a constant challenge and air of uncertainty. Often I plan for a course of action, but it then unlocks a whole new set of challenges. So have a read and give it a go - it will not follow your Million florin trade/ super army route I am sure.
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  4. #4
    Flavius Claudius Julianus Member NodachiSam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sicily

    Awsome posts guys! I want to try out Sicily again now.
    Please check out my art http://calcaneus.deviantart.com/

  5. #5
    Wandering Fool Senior Member bamff's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sicily

    I'll echo Empirate's sentiments - I also heeded the advice of the masters and concentrated on trade and shipbuilding. I also established Malta as my initial crusade base.

    Naples fell first, and when the Byz had some "loyalty issues" I pounced on the newly rebellious provinces of Crete and Rhodes. These two, along with Malta, were used for military purposes (and while teching up, I kept pumping ships out of all 5).

    I was absolutely amazed at what you can get out of essentially just Sicily and Naples! In the early years, I had Sicily pumping over 9,000 florins per year, and Naples over 5,000!

    Crusades soon secured Antioch and Tripoli, and with the Eggies still in a state of shock, I pushed on into Syria, Palestine, Arabia, and Sinai. Palestine became my new crusade base, allowing my to crush the Eggy pocket up in Edessa....lo and behold, now nobody else can get any crusade points! And if you thought I was scoring some florins before, wow! I soon had Antioch contributing well over 8,800 florins per year and Tripoli a further 5,000....

    So, flush with cash, and quite happy with the state of the world thus far, I consolidated for a while. Rebellions again opened the door for me to seize Cyprus and Sardinia - and all the while the cash just keeps rolling in.....

    I am enjoying Sicily!

  6. #6
    Enlightened Despot Member Vladimir's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sicily

    Be careful if you play the XL mod. Trade income is dramatically reduced and you'll be lucky if you get 4k out of Constantinople! The English navy also tends to dominate the seas and they seize many coastal providences making the menace even worse. I’m playing a continental Burgundy right now and the coming naval war is going to be a real mess. My advice as Sicily is to never ally with them and kill their ships as fast as possible. Auto ceasefires should be easy and you'll maintain your dominance of at LEAST the Mediterranean.


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  7. #7
    Member Member danfda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sicily

    Edited due to double post.
    Last edited by danfda; 08-02-2006 at 16:49.
    "Its just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. Then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus ate all his acorns and also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?"

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  8. #8
    Member Member danfda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Sicily

    Yes, it seems to me that the Sicillians are very fond of attacking my ships for no good reason. In almost all of my campaigns, I have found them extremely aggressive--not just against me, but against all factions. Especially the pope, but I love to watch them duel it out... I totally agree with Vladimir--when playing a sea-faring nation, eliminate Sicillian ships as soon as you can. Quite often they'll go back to neutral soon thereafter (as long as you don't invade their territory, which I like to do) and you can trade with them.

    In my Sicillian campaign, I kicked back and simply built up a huge trade empire. I know, its kind of cheap, but I was making so much money and was in the mood for a campaign that did not involve conquering everything (GA mode, mind you). So all I did was launch crusades to take the holy lands, and sat back. After 1247 I quit, since I was so far ahead in GA points, had so much money I couldn't spend it all, and the only territory I lost was Tunisia (to a huge Almohad reemergence). But it was an enjoyable campaign, and I do recommend them. I also recommend slaughtering them, but that is a different story...
    "Its just like the story of the grasshopper and the octopus. All year long the grasshopper kept burying acorns for winter while the octopus mooched off his girlfriend and watched TV. Then the winter came, and the grasshopper died, and the octopus ate all his acorns and also he got a racecar. Is any of this getting through to you?"

    --Fry, Futurama, the show that does not advocate the cool crime of robbery

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