Battle of Raphia - 217 BC

[abou]

It's cool, Moros.

I intend to get this going again once the hotfix is released and thus moving files to the correct directories easier. I imagine the next full release for EB is several months away and so there is no need for me to wait until then, but I hope the hotfix is within the next week or two.

The only problem I will have is making sure the units I want are available to both factions.

[abou]

Using a ratio of 25:1

Ptolemaioi Army

Cavalry
Royal Guard - Hetairoi (28)
Egyptian - Agema Klerouchikon Hippeon (80)
Greek Mercenaries - Misthophoroi Hippeis (80)
Elephants - 2 units of ?

Infantry
Royal Guard - Basilikon Agemata (120)
Phalanx - 5 Pezhetaroi (200)
Egyptian - 4 Machimoi Phalangitai (200)
Greek Mercenaries - 2 Misthophoroi Iphikratous Hoplitai (160)
Gauls and Thracians - Galatikoi Kleruchoi (120) and Taxeis Triballoi (120)
Libyans - Machimoi Phalangitai (120)

Archers
Cretan Archers - 2 Kretikoi Toxotai (120)

Peltasts
Peltasts - Peltastai (80)

I'm still debating on the Elephants. I think it will depend on how they work once I start testing with all the units.

Edit: added missing peltasts

[paullus]

does the parenthetical number mean the number of men in each unit, or the number of men total? the former right?

it looks like a pretty good set-up for the most part. was there not some other unit on the left flank, in addition to the kretans and basilikoi? EDIT: the peltastai, that's it. Are you figuring the basilikoi can cover both of those units?

[abou]

The number inside the parentheses is the number of men per unit.

And yeah, I forgot the Peltastai. I'm going to add that in right now.

[abou]

Working my way through the Seleucids, but I may need some help on what the team thinks best represents nationals.

Phalanx
20,000 Macedonians - 4 Pezhetairoi (200)
10,000 Argyraspides - 2 Argyraspidai (200)
5,000 Greek mercenaries - Misthoporoi Pezhetairoi (80) and Mistophoroi Theurophoroi (120)

Cavalry
4,000 Military Settlers - 2 Thraikioi Prodromoi (80)
2,000 Royal Guard - Hetairoi (80)
Elephants - 2 of ?

Semi-heavy infantry
1,000 Thracians - Thraikioi Peltastai (40)

Light infantry
1,500 Cretan archers - Kretikoi Toxotai (60)
1,000 Neo-Cretan archers - Kretikoi Toxotai (40) - might combine with standard Cretan archers
500 Lydian akontists + 1,000 Cardacians - Akontistai (60)
10,000 Arabs - 2 Giusim Aravim 'im Garzenim (200) or 2 Giusim Aravim Tsfonim (200)
5,000 Dahae and Cilicians - ?
2,000 Persian and 'Agrianian' bowmen and slingers -
5,000 Medes, Cissians, Cadusians, and Carmanians - Nizag Gund (200)


...

Some other questions for the team. The first is whether the numbers should include officers. For example, should Pezhetairoi be 200 or really 202?

The second is about the Ptolemaioi Basilikon Agemata. Will they be keeping the phalanx ability? I thought someone from the team mentioned that they would be using the overhand spear like the Hypaspistai, but that was months ago.

[abou]

Updated the Seleukid list. I'm kind of upset because I wanted to fit the Seleukids into one army, but it just doesn't look possible due to the several different nationalities without drastically reducing the ratio.

I'm also debating on the Neo-Cretan problem. I'll need to do more research, but I'm really leaning towards just combining the two.

I also want to know what the team thinks about the Arab units. In the Sherwin-White book (IIRC), it mentions recruitment of Arabs from the Red Sea area so what I have could be possible, but a solid northern Arab levy would probably be better.

[abou]

Here is a beta of the battle. There is still a lot of tweaking that needs to be done, but as of right now I need to know if any formations are not clear blocks (cavalry for example is giving me trouble) or if the armies should start closer together so as to coax the AI in behaving properly. There are also a number of placeholder units, which may not actually get to be replaced until more regional troops are available in EB.


EBRaphia
Right-click, save, and extract to EB\data\world\maps\battle\custom
Edit: This battle is for v0.81a. Be sure you have the correct version.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Do you have to do anything different really? Will it work on a straight up 0.81x build?

[abou]

Uh, I don't know. It was made on version 0.81a, which was a clean install. As far as I know, just drop it in the folder and start.

[Moros]

if there are map changes, the battlemap might look/be different, depens if the specific arrea was changed.
If unit names change, there'll be problems.
If the names of the generals are removed from the names list, you'll probably have a problem too.
If custom objects which were added to the battle are changed, you'll probably encounter errors too.

Most problems will only be caused because of name changes. Hwever it doesn't matter if a unit has it's stats edited for example. As the names of most units will probably remain unchanged, the names of the generals probably too and since the chances are small that it will not work on a future 0.8 build. However 1.0 for example is a different matter. (Also map changes normally shouldn't make it crash, only change the enviroment.)

[King Agatholes of Syracuse]

Very nice abou , I will definately try it. I tried it with the actual number of troops on the battle field but only got about quarter the amount of troops and took about 5 minutes to move a troop of Hetairoi 10 metres! Anyway, do you know if the elephants were Cataphracts or unarmoured?

[abou]

Thanks, Agatholes.

As far as I know, none of the elephants were cataphract elephants. If you follow the link in my first post to the Perseus site you can read Polybius's account and a specific section on the elephants. The ability of the elephants to gore the sides of their opposites leads me to believe that none were armored.

[King Agatholes of Syracuse]

Ah, I see.Cheers mate.

[Laman]

Played it on 0.81a. Got a problem, the battle froze at this point

https://img412.imageshack.us/img412/4748/raphiasw2.jpg

as I was to kill the Ptolemaic leader (I think Ptolemy, but I didn't really check what unit the other ptolie-guy used as bodyguard), or get killed myself possibly, whichever of the generals are in the middle of the picture I suppose.

[Teleklos Archelaou]

Yeah, that happened with me too. Maybe removing it from the list of goals or something would keep it from doing that.

[Thaatu]

Screenshot of the aeon, if not for a few visible flaws. Damn, so close.
A shot of the initial action occuring in Ptolemy's left flank.

[img=https://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4272/raphia217bcbm1.th.jpg]

Should seriously be recreated once the EB elephants are ingame.

[abou]

Nice shot, Thaatu.

Lofman, I'm not sure what to tell you about the freeze. It seems to happen regularly enough that that part of the objectives could justifiably be removed, but I'm not sure I am ready to do that. Internally, there will be a fair amount of testing and cleaning up of the battles and so in there we will come to the final decision.

Who knows, it might just be an odd coincidence that is causing it.

[TWFanatic]

Another very good battle from abou. Are you helping the EB team with the historical battles for the next patch?

[abou]

Indeed I am. Whether it will make that release or not is unknown, but we'll try. The battle itself has actually been remade entirely and several scripted elements are being added to make the battle a bit more dynamic.

[mAIOR]

Are you making Magnesia?? If so, I hope you don't use the numbers of the previous version of EB Magnesia.
70K army is just too much.

Cheers...

[abou]

Actually, tk is doing that one. I'm not entirely sure what he is doing and I know that we weren't in total agreement with numbers, but I'm sure he'll make a good battle.