Christmas Mafia :) [Concluded]

[Charge]

oh well. I was sure Draco was innocent, now it confirmed (assuming it is mafia who kills us).

sapi woke to a new dawn as drowsily as he did to the last. Again stumbling downstairs, he reflexively glanced at the fireplace and was somewhat surprised to again find a stocking there.

Looking inside, he found that it contained a large lump of coal, with a note stuck to it. The note read, "Q5H 79D".

Does it mean there only one (order?) now instead of two on the previous night?




Also, Andres, why you didn't reply on my PM..?..

[Andres]

Also, Andres, why you didn't reply on my PM..?..

Why did you ask me these questions :

Andres, can you answer why you rather inactive in this game? Unlike Brotherhood or Scourge of temil..

Could that be because you are mafioso, which tryes to be Santa,
or because you are Santa, and trying to not to make yourself suspicious for mafia?

in private and not in the thread?

[Charge]

What you think?

So you're mafioso which tryed to appear as Santa..

[FactionHeir]

All: 9T8 YD8 843 G85
Numbers: 3 4 5 8 8 8 8 9
Letters: T Y D G
What letters would numbers correspond to?
Number to Letter: C D E H H H H I

Plus this night's info:
All: Q5H 79D
Letters: Q H D
Numbers: 5 7 9
Number to Letter: E G I

All together:
C D D D E E G G H H H H H I I Q T Y

Oh, and a large lump of coal...

[Charge]

What you FH think about recent events? And about my version that this notes are orders?

Hehe, Andres not answered yet - prooving he's mafia.

[FactionHeir]

I got no idea who is who, I just collate the info in hopes of someone with more time on their hands (which sounds scummy since I spent about 5 hours at the ORG) can be bothered to analyze them.

The code can mean anything really. Could be pointing at who is the mafia, some hint at how we the town can use gifts to win, or anything else really. I think the lump of coal is significant too.

[Andres]

Hehe, Andres not answered yet - prooving he's mafia.

I didn't?

I must be getting old I was really convinced that I already gave an explanation about my "lack of activity"...

And wouldn't it be a bit stupid to tell you if I am Santa or Mafia? If Santa has some useful information, then he will reveal as he sees fit. And a mafia won't tell you that he is mafia... So, what was the point of those questions?

[Charge]

I think I did all possible to convince town in my innocence. So you should know it in any case. And if you Santa you should replied.
But you didn't reply - so you likely to be mafioso, why say anything if it can make you even more suspicious?

[Andres]

I think I did all possible to convince town in my innocence. So you should know it in any case. And if you Santa you should replied.
But you didn't reply - so you likely to be mafioso, why say anything if it can make you even more suspicious?

There's always the possibility that I am just a humble townie.

But you wanted proof? Ok, here it is, my townie pm:















...




...




Eh, hm...



...

Nothing? No pm at all?

[Charge]

Still not convinced. If you are townie, why you did not reply to pm?

[Andres]

Still not convinced. If you are townie, why you did not reply to pm?

I preferred to reply in public, as I did in my last posts.

Why didn't you ask your questions in public? Why should I trust you and give you valuable information in private?

[Charge]

I think I did all possible to convince town in my innocence.

I had some thoughts about you as possible Santa,
and not asked this in thread as mafia will use it, if you are not mafioso yourself. However now it's pretty obvious for me that Andres is guilty, sorta Godfather of this game..
Ichigo is his grunt, looks like mafia tryed plan (Ichigo's plan) with lynching him and making other mafiosos, who supported him, appear to be innocent.

Most likely there are 4 mafiosos, and other 2 are somebody from list below:
BSR, FH, CA, W&F, Kommodus.

BSR actively bandwagoned Ichi's plan, before seemed to be rather inactive;

CA was also supporter of this idea, but also of picking up certain member previously and adviced against protecting Andres. Though he did it not so hard, and it can be another mafia's plan to ensure town think about him without supicion (like GH in Godfather 1 or 2, not remember);

W&F was against Ichi's plan at some point, even FoSed CA (but not Ichigo), then withdrawed without explanation. That bit makes CA appear to be less guilty in my eyes.. + 3 gifts Andres gave him on round 1;

Kommodus is not participating in any discussion, he said it will be limited until 2008 - now it already 2008, where are you then? He also casted gifts upon Ichigo; Peasant Phill, against which Kommodus had some suspicion, appears to be innocent I think (not, if not only mafia can kill on nights)

FH also not so active in finding mafiosos, there is also linking in their gifts to each other...

Lord Winterand Tiberius are also somewhat not so innocent for me so far.

If there are any pro-town roles, who can investigate (confirm) and kill scum, please do so.

Of course I can be mistaken, but I would like to see what it will turn at the end

But I'm not sure how town can get rid of them, Santa (not sure if he's still alive) can only investigate, as rules says.. Highly recommended to Santa, pm me - only dunces can't believe in my innocence still.
Voting so far gives benefit only to mafiosos....

[FactionHeir]

I think there are only 2 mafia. 4 would be vastly imbalanced.
Why 2? Because sapi said that modifying their list would count as one of their actions and they still kill someone each night. So they normally have 2 actions and so far have modified their list every night.

[Charge]

hmmmmm
Lets think about it - now I'm sure that 'thing' 'creature' is a certain mafia member. He's alive for sure.

'Witch' is another mafioso. That doesn't contradict story about two mafiosos...

Also it didn't contradict my story - Andres 'witch creature', Ichigo - 'creature witch'. Though I think there are at least 3 of them.

EDIT:

[FactionHeir]

Well Ichigo can't be the creature because the creature just killed Draco.

[Kommodus]

Ok, let's start by considering the results of Ichigo's experiment.

We are assured that the mafia can't change their list in the middle of the day. However, Ichigo proposed his plan prior to the start of the day 3 phase, so the mafia may have changed their list in response to his proposal, knowing what its effect would be.

The thing is, the fact that Ichigo was the one lynched means that those who supported his plan appear more innocent. (This includes CountArach, Lord Winter, Draco Leman, Northnovas, and Andres.) But a mafioso could (and probably would) support the plan, knowing this.

The main proponent of the plan, besides Ichigo himself, was CountArach. He argued strongly in favor of it, with Charge as his main antagonist. I also think that CA had read Ichi's proposal before the night phase ended, because he says this:

Actually I was fairly sure that this would be what Ichigo was planning.

However, I'm not entirely comfortable with the way CA argued for the plan. For example:

I ask you - if Ichigo were scum, why would he suggest that we organise more efficiently?

A rather illogical and unnecessary defense, I would say.

Then the exchange between Charge and CA heats up:

You are just digging yourself into a deeper hole.

Yow! I would Double Fos: CA if I could.

...etc.

And... um... I just noticed something strange. Charge, you edited this post from yesterday. The thing is, I had read the original version of it. I can't quote it, of course, but I remember a part of the original content - you said Ichigo's lynch probably meant that he and CountArach were innocent. That was the part you edited out.

The question is, why? Did you realize you had stated too clearly the conclusion we were supposed to come to independently? Linking one's self to his mafia partner is a rookie mistake. I'm beginning to think the whole argument between you and CA was just a big charade.

Also, Charge, a number of the statements you've made are patently illogical. For example:

Ichigo is his grunt, looks like mafia tryed plan (Ichigo's plan) with lynching him and making other mafiosos, who supported him, appear to be innocent.

You suggest that Ichigo might be guilty after all because hey, the mafia might get one of their own lynched in order to "prove" the innocence of others. Problems with this include:

A. It would be a terrible plan for the mafia.
B. Why is your target here is Andres, rather than Ichi's other supporters?

I barely need to mention the ridiculous suggestion of 4 mafiosi. With voting working the way it does here, that would really unbalance the game and can be disregarded.

So, FoS: CountArach and Charge

EDIT: Lest I forget:

Give: Andres (1)
Give: Northnovas (1)
Give: woad&fangs (1)

[FactionHeir]

My question would be how can the town lynch a mafia, i.e. making them have less presents than everyone else?
The best we can achieve is have everyone have 3 presents (i.e. mafia giving their partner their 3 too) which leads to a townie lynch, unless sapi has some hidden rule there.

[Charge]

OK, thanks for thoughts.

You however stated certain suspicion against me, ..and CA....

We are assured that the mafia can't change their list in the middle of the day. However, Ichigo proposed his plan prior to the start of the day 3 phase, so the mafia may have changed their list in response to his proposal, knowing what its effect would be.

Not only mafia can change, if Ichigo is mafia himself - he is the guy who made the list.

And... um... I just noticed something strange. Charge, you edited this post from yesterday. The thing is, I had read the original version of it. I can't quote it, of course, but I remember a part of the original content - you said Ichigo's lynch probably meant that he and CountArach were innocent. That was the part you edited out.

The question is, why? Did you realize you had stated too clearly the conclusion we were supposed to come to independently? Linking one's self to his mafia partner is a rookie mistake. I'm beginning to think the whole argument between you and CA was just a big charade.

I have said that Ichigo's lynch is meant to appear him and supporters as innocent. However it can be mafia masterplan, and without saying this so early probably could get some useful info..
Very interesting about charade. I can admit charade in W&F's posts about gifts, but our 'discussion' was a bit too risky would we both be mafia.

I barely need to mention the ridiculous suggestion of 4 mafiosi. With voting working the way it does here, that would really unbalance the game and can be disregarded.

And you realized that their numbers cant affect game more than 2 (each other gives 3 presents to each other - they cant be lynched; 6 - same).

A. It would be a terrible plan for the mafia.

Assuming there are only 2 mafiosos. Doubt. numbers aren't that important on voting.

B. Why is your target here is Andres, rather than Ichi's other supporters?

Andres was suspicion mainly because he didn't reply on pm, and more. Why you protecting him?

FoS: Kommodus
FoS: Andres
FoS: Woad&fangs

Another possibility.

Sapi hadn't said much about roles, rules as well I think. Very confusing how to determine and neutralize mafioso..

[Csargo]

Andres was suspicion mainly because he didn't reply on pm, and more. Why you protecting him?

Why did you PM him? Do you think he would really tell you if he was? You're digging yourself into a bigger and bigger hole.

[Charge]

Why did you PM him? Do you think he would really tell you if he was? You're digging yourself into a bigger and bigger hole.

Why? to see and analyze how guilty he is. And do I really seems mafioso still with all this statements??? You ain't going to change my opinion about you with such posts.

[CountArach]

I'm a little busy right now, but I will also say that Charge has PMed me asking about the following people (I asked sapi if I could quote it, but he said that he would prefer if I only paraphrased it):

Andres - because he thought that Andres was hinting that he was Santa in one of the posts. I replied that I thought that Andres would've been more active if he had such a role. Out of interest Andres, when did he send you that message? because it could well be after I sent him my reply.
Woad&Fangs - He didn't give any reason, he just asked for my thoughts. I remained suitably tight-lipped.

Then he suggested we follow the following list:
1. Andres
2. W&F
3. Ichigo
4. FactionHeir

Then stated he had no idea about Kommodus, Peasent Phill and Omanes.

[woad&fangs]

Gift: Factionheir(1), Lord Winter(1), BSR(1)

I think that either Charge or Count Arach are a mafioso. I'm not sure which I'd rather lynch though.

I thought that the give everyone one present idea was kind of silly. My thinking was that we could protect players we believe to be valuable or the most innocent but still get an idea of the mafia's personality by who they lynch out of the options we gave them. That is why I opposed the idea. I was also being selfish. I've died early in several games in a row and I wanted to last a bit longer in this one. I gave Charge presents because I he was also against the idea and I figured that if I gave him presents than he would give me presents. However, Charge kept seeming scummier and scummier as the day wore on and I decided that I should just be glad that I helped to cause a lot of discussion that could be used to analize players and that I should just accept Ichigo's idea instead of casting my lot in with someone that I was getting highly suspicious of.

That's my explanation of my actions from the last day phase.

[Charge]

However, Charge kept seeming scummier and scummier as the day wore on

And why I looks scummy?

Out of interest Andres, when did he send you that message?

day ago

[FactionHeir]

Gift: Tiberius, Omanes, kommodus

[edit]
Anyone else finding Omanes rather quiet?

[Csargo]

Why? to see and analyze how guilty he is. And do I really seems mafioso still with all this statements??? You ain't going to change my opinion about you with such posts.

Asking him doesn't accomplish anything as far as I'm concerned. I don't understand how you could. Yes. I'm dead so it doesn't matter if I was mafia or not I can't do anything but discuss.

I'm a little busy right now, but I will also say that Charge has PMed me asking about the following people (I asked sapi if I could quote it, but he said that he would prefer if I only paraphrased it):

That's pretty strange because he seemed to believe both of us were guilty last round.

[Charge]

I believed CA was townie from his earlier actions, and I believe I was able to gain some info from Andres' reply which he decided not to give (perfect choice for mafioso).

do I saw 2nd time pming between Ichigo and FH?

Can anyone say why I seems scummy other than just casting suspicion on him?
Looks like mafiosos voted, hmm, ok town going to lose its most active contributor....

[FactionHeir]

I think you are getting somewhat paranoid now. The Gameroom is not the only place I'm active in and there are some issues in the Throne Room that currently needs PM attention.

[Charge]

they was just at strangely same time..

[FactionHeir]

Hmmmm I just had a stroke of genius while under the shower and know how we can lynch the mafia.
I'll reveal once the time is right. Note that even if I get killed, I can still talk about it.

And I think Charge is getting scummier by the second. He now even set his status to invisible.

[Charge]

And I think Charge is getting scummier by the second. He now even set his status to invisible.

What exactly I'm doing so you think I'm scum (how the hell can I be scum??).
That was in hope that Santa will show at least some rationality and pmed me..