Capo de Tutti Capi - II [Concluded]

[PershsNhpios]

It is my second, my first was Fimbulwinter, which started 3 days ago..

Generally, everyone attempts self preservation in a Mafia game - you can't be part of a victory if you are dead.

So that is a terrible excuse for lynching someone.

Next, the main excuse is that I was either protected by a Luca, or a Doctor, and seeing as a Doctor still doesn't prove my innocence, but a Luca would prove my guilt.

How is that rational if you don't know who protected me in any case?

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In response to 10 votes, I only have a limited time to play this game, and if I can spend the very first few turns exposing a Mafia family, then I've succeeded in my own part.

I am glad TruePraetorian came forward, he was very suspicious of me when I sent both him and Dutch_Guy PMs to ensure I wasn't being fooled.

As for Pevergreen, there was strong evidence that he, Pannonian and Beefy187 were connected.

When Woad&Fangs sent out his letter asking for a protection group, he sent it to Beefy187, but not to Pannonian or Pevergreen of course.

Beefy187 refused. Makayane can confirm who the letter was sent to.

Beefy then suggested to me it would be a good idea to infiltrate Pevergreen's group to find out what was occuring, and volunteered himself very quickly.
I did not trust this, I asked Pannonian in a letter to tell me what was going on between him and Pevergreen or else he would attract my distrust.

He never responded.

Pevergreen responded by posting my PM, which shows how he intended to kill W&F first - note how he has subtly tried to lynch him.

I think both Woad&Fangs are innocent, however I think they both have at least tried to recruit a large amount of people, for themselves or for the Mafia.

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Notice also how Sigurd first dismissed complaints against himself and Stranger, then began pushing against both Stranger and Louis VI when I mentioned the latter.

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Hope to god someone takes this seriously and acts on it, publicly or not..

I've done a lot of studying in the background during my Day 1, Night 1 silence..

I believe Sasaki is innocent.

[Tiberius of the Drake]

Just curious. is it possible that a new thread could be opened where all the night summaries could be placed and where a current list of alive members could be?

[Pannonian]

Just curious. is it possible that a new thread could be opened where all the night summaries could be placed and where a current list of alive members could be?

Yes.

Generally, everyone attempts self preservation in a Mafia game - you can't be part of a victory if you are dead.

So that is a terrible excuse for lynching someone.

Actually, it's one of the main principles of Mafia games that one can die and yet win, as long as one's team wins. I came up with some interesting strategies in the last Capo game, based on this principle.

[norwegian nerd]

Vote:abstain

As for acusations against me here is a message from my buddy

"I wish I could vouch for norwegian nerd in public, but unfortunately I have a pro town role, and as such I won't be revealing any time soon. I am forbidden from revealing norwegian nerd's role.

It seems therefore that there is no way we can proove his innocence. I hope that you will accept that he slipped up (perhaps due to inexperience). I also hope that you believe that were he mafia, he would have known better. (Yes I know that's a classic defensive argument, but would a mafia really be so daft as to claim knowledge of a 'buddy' in his first post, without ever being accused of anything)

So this is a plea to your common sense, norwegian nerd is innocent, simply inexperienced."

[PershsNhpios]

Norwegian, you have played more games than I myself.
You play on other forums.

[norwegian nerd]

You can ask CountArach how much I play and how recently the last one was.

[PershsNhpios]

You said Count Arach knew very little of you, and had only seen you on this other forum.

[norwegian nerd]

And that is the other forum where I have played mafia. I think maybe 4 games max before this. Its irrelevent either way the level of individual gamers wasn't as high in my opinion as well as the last active mafia game.

[Pannonian]

Can we not go into too much detail into what goes on in other forums? Firstly, we can't check out the truth for ourselves. Secondly, it takes the fun out of the game when two or three people are busy discussing something the rest of us would have no perspective on.

[Joe Monks]

Well I Vote:Glenn. I agree with those who say that it is likely that it was a luca protecting his Don.

Also FOS:Norwegian Nerd and Pevergreen.

Joe

[PershsNhpios]

Thank you, Joe Monks, your insight astounds me.

[CountArach]

I haven't read the last 3 pages yet, I'll get to that after I post this. First of all, for GH's vote on me here.
As I explained later, I had missed the part where the Director was immune to night killing. It wasn't until I looked it up later after someone mentioned something about it that I realised they would be protected and changed my selection to Kommodus. I have a track record of missing rules and things like that which I am sure you can look up if you want to. I am intrigued as to why you only brought it up now instead of when you posted a few posts after me. No suspicion here, just curious.

I also thought I would add something to this post by Andres. I would think that pever was responsible for protecting Beefy, if he had any protection at all. It is well known that they are friends outside of the Org. However, it is entirely likely that Beefy can't be night killed, in which case we should keep around because I don't believe that any of the mafia roles would have that. It just doesn't seem normal for Capo, where the Town is empowered at night as well as during the day.

I'm personally wondering what happened to the mafia families. There should have been a whole host of mafia groups and so far only one, maybe two attempted a night killing.

[Tiberius of the Drake]

Vote:Abstain


Ive been to out of the loop for this rounf to make a good vote. it might be changed if I get the time to read the last three pages.

[Csargo]

Where's Kommodus? And what do you think about the current events?

[pevergreen]

The protection group on beefy did not succeeed.

Its pevergreen please.

My intentions are clear. The kill group was clearly made solely for the protection credit, which was not given.

[CountArach]

Well if people are still in doubt, here is why, in my opinion, Glenn should be the one to go:
Post 332

Now, I have some dangerous information regarding you, Fafnesbane, it isn't much, but it involves one of your recruiters and his two protection groups, Alpha and Beta.

This doesn't help anyone. It sets him up as a target for Sigurd's attack and does not reveal anything to the town. Yet still, as a target, he must know he can be protected from any possible retribution coming back. Perhaps he has a Luca waiting for him in protection?

I think, regarding my own protection, that it was either enemies setting me up to be important, (Though if my enemies protected me - who is there to attack me?), or I have been mistaken for a greater pro-townie role.

An unlikely situation. Surely a more likely one would be a townie protection group? His enemies would much rather protect their own Don or someone else with their Luca(s), I am sure.

Post 336

Hmmm.. Note the two very lean, dismissive posts above me.

Though I doubt they are connected.

In one of those two posts Sigurd asked him a question about his previous post. Note the deflection and refusal to answer the question. Why is he keeping information back from the town?

Post 345

I'm innocent, but it doesn't matter if I'm innocent or not, it's my life I'm concerned about.

However, if I say what I know.. and I know alot.. and people believe me, then alot of nasty people are going to hang.

And I will die, won't I Stranger?

Quite possibly the most scummy post he has made. The first line tells us that he does not care about furthering the town's cause. Why is his life more important than any one of ours, especially if, as he says in the second line "alot of nasty people are going to hang." Surely that means it is a victory for everyone? As for the third line he again sets himself up as a target for someone else.

Post 358

What do I have to lose?

The possibility of gaining more information, and having a more productive role in the game - in other words, life!

At this point it makes it sound as if he has a night role similar to a Detective, whereas, from what we known from TruePraetorian he probably knows something about The Stranger from his night protection attempt offer.

Protection Group Alpha, recruited by Stranger.
Glenn, Dutch_Guy, TruePraetorian

Protection Group Beta, recruited by - Stranger?
Drisos, Moros, Andres

Perhaps something useful from him. If we somehow confirm that he is correct, we must ask ourselves - what did The Stranger himself do last night?

Step forward, protectees, what was the reason for being recruited into this?
Considering I received my recruitment PM about one hour after game start, this all seemed too organised to be township.

We know for a fact that a lot of people have being recruiting groups and being recruited into them and many people just simply do it to help the town. However, he claims that just because he got his PM early it is well organised. This seems unlikely because the mafia wouldn't have had the time to organise something like this.

Another interesting thing is a PM from TS that he posts:

for a person with so much info... you know awefully little... tell me something you know and I don't before ill be putting a bit of pressure on you...

I did not handle by sigurd... hes not my boss... but if you do not start telling me stuff you end up dead... you might as well tell me stuff that can save you so i can vouch for your innocense... this is not the way you to end CDTC... not this early

I'm not sure what to think of it. It seems genuine to me... However, I also think that strangely this could conceivably be a way to show TS's innocence. I doubt that TS would come forward so obviously threatening if he were in the Mafia - that is a WIFOM issue though.

Vote: Glenn

[Crazed Rabbit]

vote: glenn - he hasn't even tried the 'a doctor saved me' defense, which is the only possible defense for being saved in the way he was.

CR

[Tiberius of the Drake]

Unvote:Abstain
Vote:Glenn

the combination of CA and CR's posts have done two fold for me

a.) save me the trouble of reading 3 pages of accusations
B.) convinced me of the true guilt of Glenn who i already had suspcions of

[scottishranger]

The Stranger has been acting pretty out of wack to me. I don't know why more people dont notice, but he has been incredibly defense when no one even accuses him of anything really.

True Preatorians post also really convinced me that there is definetly something fishy with Stranger.

I vote The Stranger

[Tran]

Do I smell bandwagon?



Vote: molonthegreat

Not a single post in here. What's your thought?

[KukriKhan]

We have 3 sources of information: this thread, the Rules of Play thread, and PM's.

I give the most weight to the info provided by the game-meister; it's the most likely to be undisputeably true, if (necessarily) sketchy. Next, I regard stuff in this thread as 50-50 speculation. Finally, PM's seem mostly unreliable to me in this game setting, until trust is built up later in the game.

So, looking at the night1 write-up:

-Beefy187's attempted snuff story is just odd - 4 malfunctioning weapons, twice? Wow. Sabotage, obviously, but by whom? A doctor or surgeon? If pevergreen's reveal is believed, he sent the hit team.

-Drisos' episode alludes to his preference for working alone, so maybe he's one of those "secret" roles

A Serial Killer who took violent objection to anyone voting for them to be lynched; A Rogue Detective who could investigate and then act as a vigilante; and The Wolf, who was a special “investigation spoofer” for the mafia

.
One of his killers is described as having a false asian accent (and says "Sayonara, Drisos"), probably hinting that the killer is one of Drisos' co-posters in the Shogun:TW forums (Sasaki Kojiro?). The 'ballet slippers' have me stumped, but sound like a sign of a mafia whack, along with their undetectable entry and escape.

-Glenn's vignette has all the signs of a Don being protected by his Luca, (why would a doctor masquerade as a pretzel guy with a motorized, armored cart?) pursued by a rival Don's hit team.

-Xdeathfire's story points up to a Serial Killer attempted hit (which removes one option of 'secret role' from Drisos speculation). His running to the police precinct for protection leads one to believe he's likely some kinda pro-townie role.

So,
Vote:Glenn

16 glenn(kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha, Sarathos, Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,Rythmic, Joe Monks, Kukri )
4 pevergreen(andres,tincow,little grizzly)
2 Beefy(shlin, pannonian)
2 sigurd(prole, Husar)
2 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,)
1 CountArach(GH)
1 norwegian nerd(omanes)


2 abstain (norwegian nerd, Tiberius of the Drake)
-----------------------------------
-edit- to fix the count:
19 glenn(kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha, Sarathos, Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,Rythmic, Joe Monks, Kukri, Count Arach,Crazed Rabbit,Tiberius of the Drake )
4 pevergreen(andres,tincow,little grizzly)
2 Beefy(shlin, pannonian)
1 CountArach(GH)
1 norwegian nerd(omanes)
2 sigurd(prole, Husar)
3 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,scottishranger)
1 abstain (norwegian nerd,)
1 molonthegreat (Tran)

[Sasaki Kojiro]

-Xdeathfire's story points up to a Serial Killer attempted hit (which removes one option of 'secret role' from Drisos speculation). His running to the police precinct for protection leads one to believe he's likely some kinda pro-townie role.

I think this can be ruled out by the description. Xdeathfire wasn't saved, the lone attacker failed. Which means some killing party didn't have adequate numbers.

-Beefy187's attempted snuff story is just odd - 4 malfunctioning weapons, twice? Wow. Sabotage, obviously, but by whom? A doctor or surgeon? If pevergreen's reveal is believed, he sent the hit team.

I find it extremely interesting. Initially I thought he was a special role, then my theory was that he was in the mafia and one of his buddies was on the attacking group and since usually mafia can't kill their partners Seamus wrote in a sabotage. However:

Stunningly, all 4 freshly-loaded weapons jammed and failed to fire again. The gunmen were shocked with disbelief. No one could have tampered with the weapons and all of the ammo had been checked by hand and meticulously loaded into the clips – yet none of the weapons got off a round.

After I reread it, they say it couldn't have been tampered with. So I think we can throw out that theory. Seems there is some supernatural explanation.

[woad&fangs]

Vote: Sigurd Fafnesbane
For some reason my mind is connecting Sigurd with ballet slippers.

Glenn sounds like a good lynch for today but we should keep dicussion going about other suspects. I think that Pevergreen's claim of wiseguy status can be believed. The only question is whether he is under the aegis of a mafioso or is he trying to turn townie.

[KukriKhan]

Seems there is some supernatural explanation.

Ooooo. Wrath of God, so early?

[Csargo]

After I reread it, they say it couldn't have been tampered with. So I think we can throw out that theory. Seems there is some supernatural explanation.

I doubt it. It seemed more like a failed townie group to me.

[Big King Sanctaphrax]

It might well have been a townie group (Pever's?), but seeing as there were four of them there it seems unlikely it failed due to lack of numbers. I think Sasaki's right, it seems like beefy has some kind of special role.

[pevergreen]

Not failed. It was a failed protection from:
Tincow
Lord Winter
Sasaki Kojiro
Haudegen

Remember the red text?

[naut]

Unvote: Glenn
Vote: The Stranger

Every body has their eye's on Glenn, and it looks like he's going to be lynched. But, what True Praetorian has brought to light really makes The Stranger look out of line, not 100% scummy, but not 100% clean either. Just want to say I'm watching you TS.

2 abstain (norwegian nerd, Tiberius of the Drake)
-----------------------------------
18 glenn(kamikhaan,xehh2,Ichigo,Sigurd,Sasaki,Big King Sanctaphrax,Kagemusha, Sarathos, Hannibalbarc,pevergreen,Lt. Pinard,Brave Sir Robin,Xiahou,, Joe Monks, Kukri, Count Arach,Crazed Rabbit,Tiberius of the Drake )
4 pevergreen(andres,tincow,little grizzly)
2 Beefy(shlin, pannonian)
1 CountArach(GH)
1 norwegian nerd(omanes)
2 sigurd(prole, Husar)
4 The Stranger (Craterus, True Praetorian,scottishranger,Rythmic)
1 abstain (norwegian nerd,)
1 molonthegreat (Tran)

[TinCow]

Not failed. It was a failed protection from:
Tincow
Lord Winter
Sasaki Kojiro
Haudegen

Remember the red text?

I thought it was a successful protection. I DID submit my orders exactly as I said. I did not go back on my word. So, even if Sasaki backed out, one of the other two would have had to as well, and I saw no indication of that. It seems to me to be a properly organized hit and a properly organized protection, albeit without the obvious cues in the story.

That, of course, assumes that the stories aren't that blatantly obvious. If they usually are, then my belief is of course invalid.

[Csargo]

Something seems fishy about Sasaki, but I can't quite put my finger on it.