I really HATE AS cataphract reform

[Tellos Athenaios]

See. That's why we probably should remove Seleukid Cataphracts for the next version of EB. And bring in the Arcani instead. <_<

Now, seriously though: a reform. Why would any of your brilliant commanders bother with reforming their armies if they simply kept on winning? Why would you purposefully send them on suicide missions? As a matter of fact, why would you adopt a clearly doomed-to-fail Parthian novelty - in your infinte wisdom as rightful heir of he-who-conquered-all? Or so the stories your mother told you go anyways. Just drive the Parthian upstarts back to their wasted steppes, and re-conquer the empire of M. Alexandros. The cute horsies can wait, and will come eventually...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Apart from cheating, one can look up the coded requirements. Either way the magic is all there in the code and it *does* require you atm to run on hughe or at least large unit sizes. Other sizes make it virtually impossible to reach the required numbers.

Should that be your problem, or if you really get fed up trying you can *award* your FM's a brand new shining Intrigued by Kataphraktoi trait... <_<

[Korlon]

I looked over the character traits. It's simple enough to look for. The trait's name is ImpressedByCats. However, I saw the Intrigued by Kataphractoi first so when I looked at it, I had a little "wtf?" moment. Then afterwards a little "oh, right" moment. It's the OTHER type of cat. The one that kills instead of purrs.

[Watchman]

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

See. That's why we probably should remove Seleukid Cataphracts for the next version of EB. And bring in the Arcani instead. <_<

Now, seriously though: a reform. Why would any of your brilliant commanders bother with reforming their armies if they simply kept on winning? Why would you purposefully send them on suicide missions? As a matter of fact, why would you adopt a clearly doomed-to-fail Parthian novelty - in your infinte wisdom as rightful heir of he-who-conquered-all? Or so the stories your mother told you go anyways. Just drive the Parthian upstarts back to their wasted steppes, and re-conquer the empire of M. Alexandros. The cute horsies can wait, and will come eventually...

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Apart from cheating, one can look up the coded requirements. Either way the magic is all there in the code and it *does* require you atm to run on hughe or at least large unit sizes. Other sizes make it virtually impossible to reach the required numbers.

Should that be your problem, or if you really get fed up trying you can *award* your FM's a brand new shining Intrigued by Kataphraktoi trait... <_<

Word. Hetairoi all the way, speed and tight turns beat men in tin suits.

[Korlon]

What about those Hetaroi Kataphractoi then?

[Hax]

Pah! Baktrian scum. True Seleukidai would never allow his bodyguard to wear stinking Pahlav armour!

[Tellos Athenaios]

True Seleukidai don't exist, though.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hax shall write a hundred times: "I shall not misspell Seleukides."

[Tiberius Nero]

True Seleukidai don't exist, though.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

It has to be Seleukidai (Seleukides, long final |e|, is the singular, 1st decl. "son of Seleukos"). "seleukides" is some kind of Syrian shoe, from Seleukeia ("seleukis" in the singular):P

[Hax]

Heh! I triumph once again!

@Tellos: I never did Ancient Greek, actually. I was planning on getting myself a learning book, but haven't come around to it yet.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Wonderful. I get better at it every month.

(As a side note: you can search as much in the TLG yet not find that word. Changed it for now on that account to Seleukidai wherever I found Seleukides, actually my fault for letting it enter the texts. )

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

What about those Hetaroi Kataphractoi then?

I've never had a problem with them, to be honest they're overrated, Hypaspists and Hetairoi grouped together bring them down fast enough. Mind you, most of my Hetairoi are high on XP these days.

[Tellos Athenaios]

Actually... the dillemma is even more wonderful than you might've noticed:

Seleukides. Confirmed, exist. But it's not the right word.

Seleukidai. Or Seleukides (sg.) -> Not within the TLG, and as a matter of fact the right patronimicum appears to be Seleukeus. (According to the TLG anyways.) From 'tois Seleukidais' (1 source, uses it a grand total of 4 times) we learn that Seleukdai might've existed, only the question is (as seems to be confirmed with the total lack of Seleukidai/Seleukidais elsewhere) 'do we have a source here which uses dodgy Greek itself?' Then there is the issue that other patronimica are more widespread:

Seleukeis... And various other deratives of Seleukeus appear to be most widespread and frequent. Which is quite relative, considering that it's all something like ~5-40 hits. Only Seleukeia (the city) and Seleukos (the man) and their various conjugations get anything like a substantial 'post count' - i.e 200+.

Then there is another, less frequent 'class': Seleukeios.
Or rather Seleukeioi, since were talking plural here.. But I've got a feeling that it somehow intimately connected with the city itself... It is however the only thing to be retrieved through Perseus' dictionary. And in fact, it can pass for a valid patronimicum as well... Yet it is even less common than Seleukidais (it's got only 1 hit total).

And according to Middle Liddel Seleukis is a cup named after Seleukos, the word is used by Ploutarchos...

[Hax]

Guys.

I'm getting creeped out here.

Why am I SPAWNING a conversation?

[antisocialmunky]

Its Another Greek Duel(tm)....

Is there anyway to add a trigger stating that if you defeat a faction with Catanks after a certain date, you get Cataphracts?

[Ibrahim]

Guys.

I'm getting creeped out here.

Why am I SPAWNING a conversation?

sorry hax-you have lost your conversation killing abilities muwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

there's a dog breed known as a saluqi-sorry, that just came out...

[Mr Frost]

...Why would any of your brilliant commanders bother with reforming their armies if they simply kept on winning?

Same reason the Aircraft Carrier and the Dive Bomber were invented . Neither had any real effect on the outcome of WWI and certainly didn't seem vital to the Allies whom invented them {the first actual dive bomber wasn't even designed until well after the war was over} , yet they were invented .
Then they were systematically developed at very great expense in the case of the carrier after the war despite much of the military high command and government of most countries involved considering the Battleship and various cruisers the real fighting power of a navy and massed level bombing to be the best way to deliver bombs .

...
As a matter of fact, why would you adopt a clearly doomed-to-fail Parthian novelty - in your infinte wisdom as rightful heir of he-who-conquered-all?

The Germans were completely defeated after WWII , to the point the victorious Allies could have done anything to the Germans with virtual impunity , yet they eagerly adopted many German wartime developments {not just military , many medical developments still used today , hypothermia treatment techniques being one good example any have you ever driven a cheap 1960s Volkswagon ?} .
By your reasoning , we wouldn't have adopted the ICBM {a V2 missile development} , Assault Rifle , command guided missile , surface to air and air to air guided and homing missiles {many early post war missiles were developed from german work , sometimes by German scientists} and lets not forget the space program having Werner to thank .
Even WWI gives a good example : the Germans invented the modern SMG and the commando like Stormtrooper is a clear forrunner of WWII British and Commonwealth Commandos .

Of course during both wars , both sides copied each others' developments with great eagerness .

You don't have to actually lose to be impressed enough with a the performance of a unit or piece of equiptment to decide to adopt it yourself .





P.S. is it me , or is it sad the spell checker doesn't even know words like equiptment exist , let alone how to spell them ?

[Conqueror]

I've never had a problem with them, to be honest they're overrated, Hypaspists and Hetairoi grouped together bring them down fast enough. Mind you, most of my Hetairoi are high on XP these days.

I think Hypaspists and Hetairoi grouped together would bring down just about any cavalry unit. Anyway, the Baktrian late general's unit has the coolest looking helmets in all of EB, which to me is enough of a reason to favor them over the Seleukids (no I won't even attempt a greek spelling)

You don't have to actually lose to be impressed enough with a the performance of a unit or piece of equiptment to decide to adopt it yourself .

But how would you determine in-game when a general is impressed with cataphracts, when IIRC there is no way to even check whether or not there were any cataphracts in the army you just fought against?

P.S. is it me , or is it sad the spell checker doesn't even know words like equiptment exist , let alone how to spell them ?

Maybe because it's spelled equipment?

[anubis88]

of course you can check the enemy army. Just click at their general when the before battle screen starts

[Conqueror]

I meant how to determine it by scripting / trait triggers. What the human player sees doesn't help making reforms happen, does it?

[anubis88]

I meant how to determine it by scripting / trait triggers. What the human player sees doesn't help making reforms happen, does it?

Oooops, sorry. I've just been checking a few topics with people with no experience asking questions, and only later saw that you are a veteran here.

[Gaius Valerius]

For the next version I hope they add a "OR - wait till (for example) 210 BCE" part to the requirements, making them dynamic is nice, but some are really hard to get 'dynamically' (cuz you are to dynamic for the AI )

[Philippus Flavius Homovallumus]

of course you can check the enemy army. Just click at their general when the before battle screen starts

He means in the triggers.

[Mr Frost]

Maybe because it's spelled equipment?

And the spell checker cannot figure that with just one single letter wrong ?
One letter !

[Mr Frost]

But how would you determine in-game when a general is impressed with cataphracts, when IIRC there is no way to even check whether or not there were any cataphracts in the army you just fought against?

Same could then be said in the current system {being sure there was a Katatank in the enemy stack} .
It might be possible however to deduce if a stack has a general in it and whist it could be a merc general , it is most likely a family member instead and for the factions in question that is a reasonable way to assume "Kats were here" .

Even so , it might be better to base it on how many battles against the Katafactions in which you lose x% of men {win or lose} . The game seems to be able to deduce such stats judging by some vanilla VnVs . Lets say 10 battles where you {or the A.I.} lose say 1/3 of your army {against the Kat using factions} and there is a good chance you {or the A.I.} will have faced Kats and have a reasonable excuse to develop them yourself . Then require a Family member to survive such a battle whom has the Sharp VnV to get the Katfetish VnV .
Certainly it could use tweaking , but perhaps it would work .


Having to play on large or huge sizes means for some the reform will never happen which is a shame for those with Kmart computers {pity the underprivileged gamers } .








P.S. Ok , now the Spell Checker doesn't know what Kmart is ; wanna tell me that is spelled wrong ?!1

[Watchman]

That's a name, not a 'word'. Not quite the same thing.

And, yes, although some databases may be clever enough to offer you a "did you mean...?" alternative, getting one letter wrong does matter. Especially if it's flat out wrong and not, say, an alternative spelling (eg. equipment - equipement).

[Tellos Athenaios]

Cool! Hax spawned a multi-lingual spelling debate.

@Tiberius: what do you think about Seleukeis (as explained in my previous post) ?

[Tiberius Nero]

Cool! Hax spawned a multi-lingual spelling debate.

@Tiberius: what do you think about Seleukeis (as explained in my previous post) ?

Well, I stopped posting, because it was indeed irrelevant to the thread, but since you ask... ;)

I can only comment on the grammar, as I don't have access to a recent LSJ here. "Seleukeus" (Seleukeis plural) as a patronymic seems fine and so is "Seleukides" (Seleukidai plural); "Seleukeios "as a patronymic is very unlikely. My impression is that the English term "Seleucid" has influenced the decision to use the extremely rare (as you said) "Seleukidai" in favor of the more common "Seleukeis", but as to whether you should go changing the name of the faction now, I can't say.

btw, "seleukis (gen: seleukid-os)" can probably be applied to a number of distinctive objects from the region. My LSJ gives 1) some kind of women's shoes, 2) a kind of cup, 3) a kind of trireme, 4) a kind of bird.

[Ibrahim]

Same could then be said in the current system {being sure there was a Katatank in the enemy stack} .
It might be possible however to deduce if a stack has a general in it and whist it could be a merc general , it is most likely a family member instead and for the factions in question that is a reasonable way to assume "Kats were here" .

Even so , it might be better to base it on how many battles against the Katafactions in which you lose x% of men {win or lose} . The game seems to be able to deduce such stats judging by some vanilla VnVs . Lets say 10 battles where you {or the A.I.} lose say 1/3 of your army {against the Kat using factions} and there is a good chance you {or the A.I.} will have faced Kats and have a reasonable excuse to develop them yourself . Then require a Family member to survive such a battle whom has the Sharp VnV to get the Katfetish VnV .
Certainly it could use tweaking , but perhaps it would work .


Having to play on large or huge sizes means for some the reform will never happen which is a shame for those with Kmart computers {pity the underprivileged gamers } .








P.S. Ok , now the Spell Checker doesn't know what Kmart is ; wanna tell me that is spelled wrong ?!1

K-mart or Kmart are fine-it's just such a fail nowadays that it is no longer remembered

[Hax]

sorry hax-you have lost your conversation killing abilities muwhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!

Target = Ibrahim

Request to General Appo;

Target needs silencing.

[Ibrahim]

*Ibrahim sows minefields, builds mg nests, brings in the hashshaashin, and hires the Auxilia praeventores*

see, you aren't the only one with a spy ring