Request for assistance and a commentary on Rome Total War.

[Sorceror]

My main issue - I've lost my videos. No start up video on Rome Total War or Barbarian Invasion and the "dead faction" and senate videos have gone too. I've tried repairing the programme from the disc but no luck. Since I'm only five cities away from winning the game (including Rome itself which may have a few unpleasant surprises lurking) I want the game in full working order.

General commentary.

It's a great game. The animation and strategy elements are superb and the Senate is a brilliant means to suggesting and rewarding progress. The combination of strategic and tactical goals means that it equates to having the best table top wargaming set ever in your computer ! The battles to take cities (now I've worked how how the towers work - d'oh!) are particularly well thought out.

A few gripes though: -

1) It takes a MASSIVE amount of time to complete the game. I've fought about 350 battles so far. Take an average of 15 minutes per battle - a few being instant retreats - and that is over seventy five hours !
2) This would be reduced if there was a "surrender without a fight" option where the enemy was completely outclassed. About a quarter of the battles I've fought have been mopping up actions against rebels where I've had to fight the battle myself just to minimise casualties. If the computer opponent is outclassed by more than 3 to 1 and can't retreat having an automatic victory would make the game less frustrating.
3) Why does the computer use its AI to provide my opponents with Praetorian and Urban cohorts and heavy chariots and then me (as governor for towns and cities without a family member) with endless light auxilia and flaming pigs ? I don't think the limitation that you need a family member to manage towns and cities is necessary. If you made all family members generally beneficial to a settlement then the need to have a family member in each settlement is proportionate. There have been a couple of bottlenecks in the game when my expansion was stymied because I lacked the family members to manage settlements properly - even without losing a single one to battle or assasination. This will also mean that where family members were limited they'd be saved for the larger cities where they could be of most use - which is logical.
4) The computer is very tactically naive. Once I have a large army consisting of about three or four archer units, four cavalry units and six legions I've found that I can beat with early legionarys a force containing almost nothing but urban cohorts about twice my size (two large enemy armies in a single battle). I know I can up the difficulty level or start out with a non - Roman faction but I'd prefer a little more cunning from the computer which can very easily be lured into exposing flanks and rears for my cavalry to exploit. I would admit however that the Romans are a bugger to beat with any non Roman force and that I haven't yet mastered Barbarian Invasion at all - I haven't tried the Romans yet but whatever non Roman faction I have gets swamped by Romans or hordes in the first three years. This is particularly hard on the Franks who are just staring out with a few hundred spearmen when at the end of turn two a horde of three thousand Huns descends on ther lands - and that's supposed to be easy.
5) The terrain effects appear almost invisible in Rome Total War. Other than possibly very steep hills although terrain effects may have some effect they appear marginal at best. In particular heavy chariots seem virtually unaffected by moving through forests.
6) (This may have been fixed by a patch)) - Artillery which is of limited use anyway is made particularly worthless because it can neither be mounted on walls (which would be historically where they would have gone) and can't be moved outside the city from inside during a sally.
7) Fatigue needs to have a larger factor, particularly where fighting. One of the reasons my tactics can be so successful is that units can fight repeatedly without tiring significantly. More severe factors for fatigue from fighting would be more realistic and create better tactical planning. In particular it would reduce the effectiveness of my flanking cavalry serially hitting the rear of each attacking opponent until they break and then going straight down the line until the enemy army routs.
8) I suppose everyone knows that one you have stone walls even an overwhelming enemy force's siege can be lifted by repeated sallys using your archers and cavalry to cause casualties. Each archer unit can inflict about 100 casualities (more than a unit) if it fires its full allocation and cavalry can pick off any retreating stragglers (particularly artillery) as the computer races to the nearest hill if you mount a sally. A force twice your strength could be reduced to a 50/50 propostion in two sallys using this tactic with minimal risk of casualties to your own forces.

Assistance and comments welcomed.

Sorceror.

[Telys]

For your technical issuse. I would try uninstalling then reinstalling. If you really want to keep one of your saved games you can go to your rome total war folder. Find the saves folder and your saved game will be in there. Just move it to another folder.

On your game issues I will comment on one of them. At the beginning, when you are selecting your faction you have the option to manage all settlements. It is on the left side of the screen. Doing this allows you to manage your settlements without having a governor present.

How rude of me. I almost forgot to welcome you to the org. Welcome to the org man.

[Flavius Merobaudes]

Welcome to the Org, Sorcerer!

How about the videos? Are they just gone or did they turn black? I once had the problem of having black space where the video should be. The game is not the youngest anymore and you need to have Windows Media Player 9 or earlier. Later versions don't support the videos.
You can delete the updates in system configurations/software. Check the show updates option on top to see the updates. You'll probably have to delete twice as I guess you have version 11.

I'm not sure but I think you can switch to "manage all settlements by yourself" during a running campaign via game options. Or you can go to the administration scroll of each settlement and switch it manually.

Many of the game's weaknesses you wrote about are immanent flaws of computer games, that will always be there. That goes for the AI especially. A chess program does a good job because there's a finite number of possibilities and a clear standard to what is good and bad. So the chess engine can always find the best move. In RTW, there's just too much input from too many factors, the values of the variables are ever-changing and most situations aren't good or bad but can be both actually. If you could create a new AI that actually has creative thinking and can make up own plans... Well, you'd need a self-conscious AI that's aware of its own situation and that of others... hmm, better not...

I like BI because you actually have to make up a strategy for your faction, in vanilla you can just outproduce the other parties. In BI, things are more balanced and you have to consider ever single move. Trying new strategies is one of the points that let you play the game again and again.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

It's version 9 and above which are needed to play the videos, not version 9 or below. If that were the case all XP SP2 (automatically installs Media Player 10) and Vista (automatically installs Media Player 11) users would be a bit stuck.

Firstly, you can try a simple solution - ensure that all files which need to be associated with Windows Media Player are associated. This will only work in Windows XP SP2 or later. Sadly its ages since I configured a copy of Windows XP SP1 or below, so I can't really help you there. My apologies

Firstly go into Control Panel.

If you are using the modern view switch it to the classic view on the side panel to the left. I don't quite remember how to get to it through the newer method. Sorry

Then select "Program Access and Defaults" or, in Windows Vista, "Default Programs" and then "Set Default Programs".

Select Windows Media Player and ensure it has all its defaults set for it.

Try playing R:TW movies again.

If that doesn't work you may want to try installing the latest version of Windows Media Player:

If you are using Windows XP (with Service Pack 2 or later), you may wish to consider downloading and installing Windows Media Player 11 from the official site here, hopefully fixing any corruptions/problems which may exist in your current installation.

If you are using Windows XP (with Service Pack 1 or earlier) you may wish to consider installing Windows Media Player 10 from here.

If you are using Vista there isn't really much you can do on this front - sadly Windows Media Player 11 comes integrated with the OS, so cannot be easily re-installed.

Good luck

[Flavius Merobaudes]

It's version 9 and above which are needed to play the videos, not version 9 or below. If that were the case all XP SP2 (automatically installs Media Player 10) and Vista (automatically installs Media Player 11) users would be a bit stuck.

At least for me and some other people at this forum whom I got the info from, anything above version 9 doesn't work. Maybe that's something to do with my system but even after having done what Omanes said, I still got the "dark night in the senate building" video.

There is a victory video, but it's only a short sequence in a small video. Some people may find it disappointing but that doesn't really matter as the game itself is rewarding enough.

[Quirinus]

That's odd..... my Windows Media Player was v10 when I first installed the game, and has since been upgraded to a v11. I've never had any problems with the videos.

[Brave]

I agree with the surrendering option unless the army was led by someone with a "brave" trait.

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

I agree with the surrendering option unless the army was led by someone with a "brave" trait.

That probably would be a useful feature, but what should happen if this is chosen is a different matter. Would the enemy have the ability to wipe out the entire force or (possibly) capture them? Could they let them go and, if they could, why would it be sensible to do so? To keep it balanced, a lot of thought would have to go into it and the varying options' pros and cons.

[Quirinus]

Hullo Sorceror, and welcome to the Org!

It's a great game. The animation and strategy elements are superb and the Senate is a brilliant means to suggesting and rewarding progress. The combination of strategic and tactical goals means that it equates to having the best table top wargaming set ever in your computer ! The battles to take cities (now I've worked how how the towers work - d'oh!) are particularly well thought out.

I definitely agree. I've never played a game quite like it, before or since. More than two years after I bought the game, I'm still playing it regularly (or, at least, as much as I can).

1) It takes a MASSIVE amount of time to complete the game. I've fought about 350 battles so far. Take an average of 15 minutes per battle - a few being instant retreats - and that is over seventy five hours !

Very true, but IMO that is a plus to the game, not a minus. But you can opt to play a shorter campaign-- there's the 'short campaign' option, which gives you the task of destroying certain factions that were historically hostile with it. I find that a short campaign takes a lot less time-- I can finish one over two weekends if I play earnestly. Plus, you can still go on to complete the full campaign should you be inspired to do so, after you complete the short camapign objectives.

3) Why does the computer use its AI to provide my opponents with Praetorian and Urban cohorts and heavy chariots and then me (as governor for towns and cities without a family member) with endless light auxilia and flaming pigs ? I don't think the limitation that you need a family member to manage towns and cities is necessary. If you made all family members generally beneficial to a settlement then the need to have a family member in each settlement is proportionate. There have been a couple of bottlenecks in the game when my expansion was stymied because I lacked the family members to manage settlements properly - even without losing a single one to battle or assasination. This will also mean that where family members were limited they'd be saved for the larger cities where they could be of most use - which is logical.

As Telys said, you can check the "Manage All Settlements" box in the faction selection screen. That way you don't neccesarily have to have family members in your settlements to administrate them. If you don't like micromanagement and you would still like the AI to manage for you, you can still enable the AI to do that. There's even a seperate buildings and unit recruitment AI management-- if you don't trust the AI to build suitable troops for you, just enable the buildings one only, and manage the troop recruitment yourself.

4) The computer is very tactically naive. Once I have a large army consisting of about three or four archer units, four cavalry units and six legions I've found that I can beat with early legionarys a force containing almost nothing but urban cohorts about twice my size (two large enemy armies in a single battle). I know I can up the difficulty level or start out with a non - Roman faction but I'd prefer a little more cunning from the computer which can very easily be lured into exposing flanks and rears for my cavalry to exploit. I would admit however that the Romans are a bugger to beat with any non Roman force

Yes, unfortunately, this is one of the main drawbacks to the game, and one that makes the game considerably less challenging than they should have been. The AI are pretty inept both on the tactical map and on the strategic one. I think you can download new unit formations somewhere here though, called the "Darth formation mad" or something similar. (Actually, I've been wanting to try that too. Anyone have a link? )

I haven't yet mastered Barbarian Invasion at all - I haven't tried the Romans yet but whatever non Roman faction I have gets swamped by Romans or hordes in the first three years. This is particularly hard on the Franks who are just staring out with a few hundred spearmen when at the end of turn two a horde of three thousand Huns descends on ther lands - and that's supposed to be easy.

The Franks do have the ability to horde themselves. For my part, the Franks hold a special place in my heart-- they're the very first faction I ever played with to the end, BI or RTW (I got both at once and played BI first). If you think the Franks are getting swamped, you should try the Western Empire. Everyone is gunning for you, and you have to defend yourself with inferior troops and your empire riven by religious unrest and very possibly civil war.

5) The terrain effects appear almost invisible in Rome Total War. Other than possibly very steep hills although terrain effects may have some effect they appear marginal at best. In particular heavy chariots seem virtually unaffected by moving through forests.

I do find that even slightly higher ground does give an advantage, whether to melee or missile combat. This is especially true for the latter-- in a, say, horse archer duel where everything else is equal, the unit that takes the higher ground tend to outgun their opponents by a significant margin. Troops in general also appear to tire more quickly in deserts.

6) (This may have been fixed by a patch)) - Artillery which is of limited use anyway is made particularly worthless because it can neither be mounted on walls (which would be historically where they would have gone) and can't be moved outside the city from inside during a sally.

Very true. I've never found artillery to be of anything better than limited use, and it slows down armies. But the ability to assault a settlement the turn you besiege it is pretty neat, so I do use them once in a while in the late game.

7) Fatigue needs to have a larger factor, particularly where fighting. One of the reasons my tactics can be so successful is that units can fight repeatedly without tiring significantly. More severe factors for fatigue from fighting would be more realistic and create better tactical planning. In particular it would reduce the effectiveness of my flanking cavalry serially hitting the rear of each attacking opponent until they break and then going straight down the line until the enemy army routs.

That I disagree with you. I find that fatigue is a large limiting factor in my battles-- I don't use the cavalry repeat charge too often, because even cavalry tires too fast. I tend to use my cavalry to form local superiority of numbers at critical moments instead-- i.e. I prize their maneuverability more than their charge bonus.

You can edit the fatigue settings though-- I know that some players disable or greatly reduce fatigue (because they think that the already-inept tactical AI does not manage fatigue well, and are thus disadvantaged by this), I'm sure it's possible to do the opposite as well.

8) I suppose everyone knows that one you have stone walls even an overwhelming enemy force's siege can be lifted by repeated sallys using your archers and cavalry to cause casualties. Each archer unit can inflict about 100 casualities (more than a unit) if it fires its full allocation and cavalry can pick off any retreating stragglers (particularly artillery) as the computer races to the nearest hill if you mount a sally. A force twice your strength could be reduced to a 50/50 propostion in two sallys using this tactic with minimal risk of casualties to your own forces.

I believe you are playing an earlier version of RTW-- later patches remove this exploit by limiting the number of sallies per turn to one. The latest patch, v1.5, can be found here (and here for BI), or, if you have a problem with the installer(s), try the manual patches here (RTW) and here (BI).


Hope I helped. Welcome again to the Org!

[Sorceror]

First thank you all for your kind welcomes and helpful advice.

I suspect that it might be a Windows media player problem because the screen does go black for the Senate and the starting videos (which are FANTASTIC !) just don't load. I'll cut and paste and try some of the suggestions. Is there a victory video BTW ? The issue isn't as pressing if there isn't.

I'll certainly tick the manage all settlements myself option at the start of the game in future. The family members are usually still valuable because of beneficial effects on public order and production (usually overall) and the benefit in smaller settlements of having quality units that regenerate on their own.

The sally issue was at the rate of one a turn. Your armies do start to get attrition the longer the siege lasts (and this is the advantage of those epic stone walls - attrition is FAR slower) but two sallys can devastate an opposing army. Interestingly the computer isn't always consistent about this and sometimes will lurk at the entrance ready to massacre your emerging troops. Getting hammered by archers appears to be the primary incentive for them to head for the hills.

I wonder if the designers regularly log onto these sites ? For games designers these must be the most valuable focus groups ever and they are all free.

Interestingly I think the comments expose the great thrust of demand in computer technology. It is no longer primarily demands for improved graphics or upgraded sound. Instead it is the computer's ability to "think" - to create opponents with realistic responses that provoke the greatest interest.

As a side issue the huge online games ("EverQuest", "World of Warcraft") must now be anthropologists' and psychiatrists' playgrounds. The issue of cheating to achieve victory. The phenomenon where some teams online effectively became outlaws - hunting down and killing for their goods fellow players rather than the monsters. I haven't yet played much online games but my experiences with Hearts has been interesting. In at least two thirds of games a player who has done badly in their first two hands will drop out to be replaced by the computer. Anonymity restores the right to sulk if you don't win. Ironically it is not unknown for the computer to then win the game. So the problem with "real" opponents that computers do not yet, thankfully, emulate is that they cheat and sulk.

A television show in the UK effectively ran just by playing single battles on Rome Total War with a team of three ordinary persons or celebrities against the computer. I think it probably folded when someone realised that all they were doing WAS playing Total War. I think the shelf life could have been greatly extended had the format been subtly shifted to have two teams of human players in separate rooms facing off against each other. People take games against theitr fellow humans farr more seriously.

Anyway my reception here shows that not all online gaming is corruption and ill manners. Thank you once again.

Strength and honour my friends, strength and honour.


Sorceror.

[Korlon]

There are a number of mods that slow down a battle by lowering the lethality of weapons. Men kill each other slower, meaning fatigue can really show itself. Fighting just a little while will drop it to winded and tired.

You should be joyful that a game such as this is so long! Rarely can you find a game that you only spend a few bucks on but has such high replayability. Also, don't feel compelled to finish your faction's victory conditions, go try out a new campaign with a different faction. Heck, I never even won a game before.

You're right about forests not having any sort of effect on chariots, but there's also a hidden trait associated with losing combat effectiveness in said battles. Mounted troops lose either attack or defense, I'm not sure, when fighting in forests. Certainly you'll see that archers simply hit trees with their arrows rather than the enemy fifty meters away. So there is something to be said for forests.

[RLucid]

You should be joyful that a game such as this is so long! Rarely can you find a game that you only spend a few bucks on but has such high replayability....

You're right about forests not having any sort of effect on chariots, but there's also a hidden trait associated with losing combat effectiveness in said battles. Mounted troops lose either attack or defense, I'm not sure, when fighting in forests. Certainly you'll see that archers simply hit trees with their arrows rather than the enemy fifty meters away. So there is something to be said for forests.

Well said!!

On 2nd point, I'm surprised. I had this battle, where I had Town Watch re-inforcements near a wood, who were in danger of attack by Britons, before my main force could get over the hill. The rub was, they were in great spot to ambush routing Briton troops, fleeing the field as my army took effect. So I didn't want to withdraw them immediately but try to learn how to use them.

It was one of those battles, which was interesting enough to repeat from save game feature.

To my surprise, grouping the TW and running them into the wood at maps edge, turned the normally timid into heroes! Before battle engaged, the Britons attacked them with Peasants, who got seen off, and then sent in a chariot unit.

To my surprise, the battle squares held in the wood, and actually routed the "feared" chariot unit. I'm sure Hastati would generally have failed out in the open.

My theory was that the wood, was preventing proper maneuver, so the desperate TW were able to hold out long enough, and inflict enough kills to see off the chariots.

But now reading this, unless it was due to a reduced attack/defense bonus (implying Wood does effect things), I'm short of an explanation for this heroic feat by the militiamen.

Perhaps the grouping, meant that when the "General" was being attacked, the 2nd unit in hiding effectively ambushed the chariots, on flank or rear, enabling them to see off the other units whilst losing about 25% of their force in total.

As they then went unmolested and were able to bag routers later on, it was amusing seeing the stats and seeing their amazingly good kill ratio!

[Mek Simmur al Ragaski]

Most of my battles are 'mopping up actions', like the one i just fought, i was outnumbered, but i had managed to bring in some of my generals from other towns to fight off the gauls light cavalry, as soon as the light cavalry flankers died, the light infantry of mine decimated their light infantry, and pretty soon the battle was just a 'mopping up action' The battles do take a while, i would be suprised if i had taken 30 hours kicking the AI's backside, its worth it in the end...

[Praetor Rick]

"2) This would be reduced if there was a "surrender without a fight" option where the enemy was completely outclassed. About a quarter of the battles I've fought have been mopping up actions against rebels where I've had to fight the battle myself just to minimise casualties. If the computer opponent is outclassed by more than 3 to 1 and can't retreat having an automatic victory would make the game less frustrating."

I'd suggest just building up a rebel hunting force of generally easy to replace but decent quality units - Hastati and Equites pre-Marius, for example, and just autoresolve. Yeah, you'll take casualties, but with an army like that, casualties are easy to replace. No need to take Triarii or Arcani or First Cohorts into a battle against rebels when all you want to do is make them go away. Now, if you want to give a weak general a chance to train up, or get a chance of a Man of the Hour, or even decorate your map with a Heroic Victory marker, this wouldn't work, but for just making those annoying rebels go away, it's fine.