Wiki

[Crazed Rabbit]

There's a totalwar.org wiki?

Anyway, I'm happy with the benevolent dictatorship that is The Org. We do have community consultation on things people want to discuss by simply posting in the watchroom. The consultation before changes seems unnecessary.

CR

[drone]

There's a totalwar.org wiki?

Yup:
https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Not much in there at the moment, just some basics. I have no idea about editing permissions though. Haven't messed with wiki syntax before, but I wouldn't mind contributing. Back when the wiki was first put up, I thought about porting the MTW guide/unit guide to the wiki (with Frogbeastegg's permission, of course), but then I remembered I'm a very lazy person .

What's the scoop on creating new pages?

[Makanyane]

Yup:
https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Not much in there at the moment, just some basics. I have no idea about editing permissions though. Haven't messed with wiki syntax before, but I wouldn't mind contributing. Back when the wiki was first put up, I thought about porting the MTW guide/unit guide to the wiki (with Frogbeastegg's permission, of course), but then I remembered I'm a very lazy person .

What's the scoop on creating new pages?

For very basic technical bumpf see mini guide to editing I wrote that relates to TWC one. It's same software so editing side should be similar, though I think accounts are set up differently on Org's wiki.

For other editing help, Media Wiki help is quite comprehensive see http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Editing
but that might be a bit too much info to start with.

If you're copying anyone else's stuff in you should make sure they are happy about it first

[TosaInu]

Yup:
https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

Not much in there at the moment, just some basics. I have no idea about editing permissions though. Haven't messed with wiki syntax before, but I wouldn't mind contributing. Back when the wiki was first put up, I thought about porting the MTW guide/unit guide to the wiki (with Frogbeastegg's permission, of course), but then I remembered I'm a very lazy person .

What's the scoop on creating new pages?

https://forums.totalwar.org/?q=node/2

The book module is more suited for large and huge publications.

[drone]

For the full guide, yes the book works best. I was thinking more along the lines of individual pages for each unit, with the description, stats, costs, building/faction/province prerequisites, era availability, provincial bonus info, etc. There would also be pages for the unit types (spears, missile, etc.) with links to the specific units as well as the type description and hints, and maybe a stat comparison roundup at that level.

Something similar to this:
http://wiki.reliccommunity.com/Space_Marine_Squad
with a standard template style for each unit and links to other units at the bottom. Since there would be extra info (apart from Frogbeastegg's description and stats), an editable wiki format might be better, I know I would mess up key info and others could correct it. And I would definitely ask permission before using her great work. I wouldn't mind putting the unit card pics up with the stats/description, but I don't know about server space/uploads and copyright issues with the game graphics.

I thought about this a little more last night, and figured these pages should have a (_MTW) suffix, this way STW, RTW, M2TW, and hosted mods could all have pages specific to their game type. The unit templates would be different for each game obviously, but their should be some similarities that can be shared. I haven't been following RTW and M2TW, I assume someone has created unit guides for those that could be used as a base.

[TosaInu]

Hello drone,

I see.

There's an image uploader and storage. I think it's fine to use the unitcard pictures.

There's only one problem: I don't know how to create those wiki templates.

That relic wiki looks very nice.

[Makanyane]

Drone, I can try and help on templates - I did some on other wiki - (its normally a matter of *cough* borrowing format off something similar and adjusting a bit)

I think WikiMedia should set up so /Template name works by default but I'll go and have a little check.

[Makanyane]

OK principal works here too see
https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/ind...mplate:TW_Unit
for a draft template - not much thought has gone into that - either try playing with it yourself or sketch design and I'll try and do it.

At the moment its got the page title being automatically used as its title - which might not be what you want.

It's in use on https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/ind...Makanyane/Test
just to show what you have to enter to get it to display.

If you want to keep anything out of the way of searches etc.. its a good idea to put your testing stuff on a page under your user-name like that so you can develop it.

(could the bit of this thread that devolved into Wiki discussion get split off?)

[drone]

I've been looking at templates, they don't look that hard to create, there is a section on infobox templates in the wikipedia sections:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox

I'm not sure about Navbox templates though, I think those are html blocks, not just a basic template layout.

That TW Unit template is a good start (I like the color ).

Definitely, this is getting really off-topic here. Assuming I have the ok from TosaInu to start, and the ok from Frogbeastegg to use her guide, I'll throw some things together for a couple of units and start a new thread either here or in the Main Hall to get some feedback. Since there might be some conflicts with page names, how easy is it to change a template/page name? Is it just a simple "move"? At some point I'm sure I going to forget to append the (MTW) suffix...

[TosaInu]

The wiki is public, of course you can start Drone.

I think your tagging idea to keep al together is a good one.

Make a startpage for MTW units. Create categories for cavalry, spearmen, missiles, heavy infantry or somethink like that. And list the units below that as [[MTW_peasantarcher]] and so on.

just copy and paste [[MTW_ ... ]] for any unit you like to create and save the page.

When you click on MTW peasant archer in the saved page, it will say that the page doesn't exist yet and you can create it. Little risk to forget the suffix.

It's possible to fix the visible name later [[MTW_peasantarcher|peasantarcher]]

[TosaInu]

Nice Makanyane,

I tried to create a template a while ago and even the copy of something simple turned up 'funny'.

Is there a way to list available templates?

[drone]

You can look in the Template namespace for the Org's wiki. Go to All pages, change the namespace to Templates, and it will list the ones available (currently only TW Unit).

[Makanyane]

That's the only one of that type that's in there - to see them go to All Pages and select 'Template' from drop down, I normally forget where to get to that so was putting in category: as well ! Designing more is matter of experimenting or finding code you can borrow / adapt. If you try and use templates from other sites exactly as they are they tend not to work because they are calling other templates you don't have or other navbox types.

I think Drone is right about some box types being set up in CSS (html) code
that's the bit you call at the start to set table style like
{| class="infobox blah"....
I know you can change that but I'm not sure how to do it myself.

You can somehow set up .css sheets in the mediawiki space like
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MediaWi...-Blackskin.css
so you define what specific type does in there and call it simply at the head of a table. (I've no idea how you activate it for different areas / skins though)


EDIT: must learn to type faster ^ beaten to the answer.... :)

[Omanes Alexandrapolites]

Might I suggest a feature which to start threads which are actually direct links to Wiki articles than conventional threads. A bit like the "moved" is now, only having the term "Link:" or "Wiki Article:" as an unbolded prefix rather than "Moved:"

It would make the wiki a bit easier to make public and navigate. Especially if we are replacing things such as guides or FAQs with articles within it.

[Makanyane]

I think you can do that somehow - TWC's got it on a link redirecting what would have been a sub-forum
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=22

Was going to suggest though with something like the Modders Guide to CTD's (which I keep forgetting to go back to work on) - that we just get a mod to edit in a big link to the wiki page at the top of the first post in thread - so actual thread stays on forum - so 'who said what' content and further discussion are still on forum, but link to 'Updated Overview', or whatever, is on wiki....

[drone]

One other question before I get elbow deep in this: who can edit the wiki? Is it restricted to just Org members, or can anyone that finds the URL make changes? I assume that content on the wiki is bound by the same rules as the forum (no swearing, flaming, pr0n, piracy talk/links, etc.), but non-members would not face consequences for defacing pages.

[TosaInu]

Only org members can edit drone.

[Vladimir]

Only org members can edit drone.

But I don't wanna edit drone.

[drone]

But I don't wanna edit drone.

Using Makanyane's template as a starting point, I created a standard template for MTW combat units.
https://forums.totalwar.org/wiki/ind...plate:MTW_Unit
I will probably create templates for Agents, Ships, and Artillery at some point.

I need to figure out conditionals, so that unnecessary fields for a given unit don't clutter up the picture. The table syntax is making my eyes cross. I thought Lisp was bad...

[Makanyane]

Vladimir that was truly groan worthy....

@ Drone, looks good - I tried getting version working that missed out un-used rows and failed

There was working one on TWC
http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/Template:Faction
that I played with, and it needs the
{{#if:
stuff to get the unused one to disappear, I can't find way of persuading same thing or similar to work here at moment though.

[TosaInu]

Ran into that if issue today too.

But I should try to run when I can't walk: got something like a template now, but I wonder how to force it in the template to limit the box to a fixed width.
This is especially important for pictures, a 500 wide one should be limited to 250 automatically.

[drone]

I created Template:!, which basically is a substitution for the pipe symbol |. Stole it from Wikipedia, they use it all the time with their conditionals in tables/templates. With it in place, I can sort of get things working.

I also created Template:MTW Unit Navbar, which I will be putting at the bottom of each unit page for quick navigation. It's not finished, I only have swords and spears in place now.

I noticed someone has started adding STW units (Schnobs) Any idea who this is? If he/she wants to help that would be great.

[Viking]

Vladimir that was truly groan worthy....

@ Drone, looks good - I tried getting version working that missed out un-used rows and failed

There was working one on TWC
http://www.twcenter.net/wiki/Template:Faction
that I played with, and it needs the
{{#if:
stuff to get the unused one to disappear, I can't find way of persuading same thing or similar to work here at moment though.

I copied a perfectly working template with an IF function from Wikipedia, and it did not work. (no WP templates were within the copied text)

[Makanyane]

@drone - looking good

@Viking - snap - the code I was trying definitely worked on TWC - I'd say ask Tosa, but he seemed to be having problems with IF as well....

only thing I can think is that as its #if, where I've seen it before, it needs something css related? Can you give link to the wikipedia one you were trying, so we can compare possibilities?

[Viking]

@drone - looking good

@Viking - snap - the code I was trying definitely worked on TWC - I'd say ask Tosa, but he seemed to be having problems with IF as well....

only thing I can think is that as its #if, where I've seen it before, it needs something css related? Can you give link to the wikipedia one you were trying, so we can compare possibilities?

This is it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Infobox_Comet

[drone]

Example line from that infobox

{{#if: {{{discoverer|}}} | <tr> <th>Discovered by:</th> <td>{{{discoverer}}}</td> </tr>}}

I have not had any luck with html tags within conditionals. I think this might help, but I'm not sure how to activate it:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Manual:%24wgUseTidy
It might need to be set globally in the wiki, or maybe we aren't up to the MediaWiki version they talk about.

[Makanyane]

@Viking - thanks for linky - that's pretty much same syntax as I was trying....

*thoughts* - might be to do with what version of WikiMedia we are running - saw something in their version notes about 'magic words' being added in later versions....

- the {{ if }} maybe supposed to be a template that does something itself? Wikipedia does seem to have one which I tried borrowing but that didn't help, and TWC doesn't seem to have one although 'if' clause works there.... so that isn't getting very far as a solution...

EDIT: sorry drone wasn't ignoring your post am just a slow writer and didn't see it first.
you could try converting the table elements to just use the |- type syntax and avoid the html if you think that might work: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Tables
maybe try getting the table part working that way first then re-try the 'if' part?

[Viking]

@both

Yes, I was thiniking maybe this wiki does not support {{#if:|}}. If typed at Wikipedia it gives a blank field; at the Org wiki it gives, yep, just {{#if:|}}. The If template at wikipedia is missing the "#" so that is definately not it.


For now, I'll just scratch my head, as I am just as, or maybe more, clueless as/than you.

[drone]

I don't think {{#if:}} is a template, it's part of the MediaWiki ParserFunctions extension.
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:ParserFunctions
Maybe it needs to be turned on in the Org's wiki?

The problem with the pipe(|) format is that it gets trashed in conditionals. This is why I added the {{!}} template:

A pipe character for a table row may be desired as part of a parameter value in the call of a template or parser function (in particular, it can be in code made optional using ParserFunctions). However, expansion of templates and parser functions happens before interpretation of table syntax. This causes a pipe character in a parameter value to be interpreted as a separator between parameter definitions. To avoid this these pipe characters are put with a special template:! ( talk edit history links ), see template:Table example with optional row ( talk edit history links ).

With the {{!}} template, I can get ok results, but the #if never has any effect, it always performs the "true" option and puts the "{{#if: |" at the top of the page as if it's an error.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This is the code I'm using:

{{#if: {{{apmelee|}}}|
!colspan="2" style="text-align:center;"{{!}}Armour Piercing Melee Attack
{{!}}-
}}

I just want a centered line after the Discipline value that writes "Armour Piercing Melee Attack" if anything is passed into the "apmelee" param.

My head hurts, I'm going drinking. Hopefully I can work on this some more tomorrow. I would like to get this working before I start creating any pages for specific units, it will probably mean less work in the end. Have a good weekend!

[TosaInu]

Hello drone,

I don't know.

An if condition seems to me like something very basic.

I do not know whether it needs to be configured, it could be (I'll look at it).