Come on out from under the bridge...

[Don Corleone]

The last couple of points raise an important question.

Just exactly where does the troll lie? If you know you hold a somewhat or even very controversial stance (for example if I stated my belief that you have the right to shoot an intruder in your home that is threatening the health and safety of you or a loved one), but you truly believe what's coming out of your mouth, is that a troll? What about if you believe it, but you're not posting it to express your views, but because of the reaction that you know will ensue (for example, that President Bush, in terms of actual dollars, has given more to Africa then all U.S. Presidents prceeding him, and more than almost all other world leaders)?

So, does the troll lie in the controversy of the belief itself?
Does it lie in the core motivation behind one's post?

Or does a true troll require a certain amount of, shall I say, disingenuity? In other words, are you purposely altering your true views to enhance the reaction?

I thought of another one... one of my personal favorite repeating ones... Guaranteed, like Godzilla rising up from the depths of the ocean, ready to breathe radioactive fire, only to disappear back to the murky depths once the destruction has been visited, I love playing the guessing game of how long it will take for Navaros to enter into a discussion on gay rights.

[InsaneApache]

Anyway, that's my story. Trust in my higher power and take it one day at a time.

Next?

God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change the courage to change the things I can and wisdom to know the difference.

When IA makes posts like the above, I have to restrain myself - Every. Single. Time.

[Fragony]

Just like to use sarcasm, the english language is just way too much fun to play with. I like my actual point to be mildly annoying to the receiver. If you want my humble opinion I am pretty good at it

[Leet Eriksson]

I like trolls that don't know what the hell they are talking about.

[Sigurd]

Then again...uhm....your opponent was not able to complete the debate for RL reasons.

Those who claim a belief in God is irrational needs to get their *** kicked up and down long street, twice!!!

How is that for trolling?

[Adrian II]

Those who claim a belief in God is irrational needs to get their @ss kicked up and down long street, twice!!!

I am still waiting for you to state your case in an adult thread, not some sheltered kindergarten called a 'debating thread'. And my trusty size nine goes into your tiny theist rear a lot more than your Jesus slipper goes into mine.

How is that for trolling?

You just succeeded!

[Sigurd]

I am still waiting for you to state your case in an adult thread, not some sheltered kindergarten called a 'debating thread'. And my trusty size nine goes into tiny theist rear a lot more than your Jesus slipper goes into mine.

Oh yeah??

[Fragony]

I like trolls that don't know what the hell they are talking about.

Me too

[Adrian II]

Oh yeah??

Are you thick? Of course!

[naut]

Irony... too... great... can't... stop...

Man I fell of my seat! LOL! I'm so glad you made me notice that one!

[Sigurd]

Are you thick? Of course!

Why don’t you just stop soiling my lawn with empty words and start spreading some real fertilizer?

How about starting a thread with an affirmative argument that says: God does not exist, because … etc.
Let's see which shoe fits in which ***.

...

[Lemur]

I dunno, a little poke here or there doesn't really qualify as trolling, does it? I will confess, however, to trolling: I created a thread about Republican sexual scandals, and I couldn't let go for a while. It wasn't all my fault, though; there were a lot of scandals in the news at the time. (Let's not even go here, with the 272 Republicans charged with criminal offenses, only 60 of whom are pedophiles.)

Anyway, that thread induced forum rage in just about every Republican on the board, which was pretty cool. Otherwise calm and sensible Orgahs were screaming some pretty hilarious things. Yeah, I was trolling.

However, this is real trolling.

[InsaneApache]

Hilarious. My little pony indeed.

[The Celtic Viking]

I think there is a debate in here about 'Does God exist', where the Theist position crushed the atheist position. And I think the theist position used a rational argument.

Wow, that's all sweet and dandy, though kind of irrelevant. If you don't like me calling it irrational, please present the evidence you have of a god... any god, really.

Irony... too... great... can't... stop...

It would only be irony if I was actually trolling. I was not. Glad to know I spread some happiness, though.

Or is there some other irony there that I missed?

[drone]

I don't really troll much, I'm usually sitting on the sidelines and observing more than posting anyway. The one thing that tempts the troll in me is just plain ignorant posts, usually from a newer member, usually full of grammatical and spelling errors, sometimes in leetspeak. I get really offended by these, and might sometimes feel the urge to put my two cents in before the mods take action. I know it's irrational, but it's like someone walking into your living room and taking a ginormous dump on the carpet. I like the atmosphere and quality of debate here, and hate to see it ruined by posts like these.

[Adrian II]

The one thing that tempts the troll in me is just plain ignorant posts, usually from a newer member, usually full of grammatical and spelling errors, sometimes in leetspeak. [..] I know it's irrational, but it's like someone walking into your living room and taking a ginormous dump on the carpet. I like the atmosphere and quality of debate here, and hate to see it ruined by posts like these.

Seconded!

[Crazed Rabbit]

On other occasions it is normally one of three things - Chavez bashing, Immigrant bashing or stating how 'prison works' and 'those eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeevil people should be locked up foreverandeverandeverandeveramen.'

Hmm, that reminds me...

Back before time as we know it began, and there was only the tavern, JAG was posting in some thread about prisoner rehabilitation and how great and progressive it was that some criminal teen got a PS2 for behaving well in juvie and I wouldn't stop asking if his victim got a PS2 from the state.



CR

[Banquo's Ghost]

Hmm.




Just as there are no gays in Iran, there are no trolls in the Backroom.



This has been an official announcement from the Ministry of Truth.

[ICantSpellDawg]

I don't really troll much, I'm usually sitting on the sidelines and observing more than posting anyway. The one thing that tempts the troll in me is just plain ignorant posts, usually from a newer member, usually full of grammatical and spelling errors, sometimes in leetspeak. I get really offended by these, and might sometimes feel the urge to put my two cents in before the mods take action. I know it's irrational, but it's like someone walking into your living room and taking a ginormous dump on the carpet. I like the atmosphere and quality of debate here, and hate to see it ruined by posts like these.

They have to start somewhere - I'm sure we dropped off a few polished deuces when we first came here. At least I'm sure I did.

[Sigurd]

Wow, that's all sweet and dandy, though kind of irrelevant. If you don't like me calling it irrational, please present the evidence you have of a god... any god, really.

The only point I wanted to make was that believing in a God might not be irrational.

If I presented a valid argument that God exists, it would then be rational as all arguments built on valid premises and a valid conclusions becomes a rational argument.
Would you disagree?

And if you want to challenge me to a debate on the existence of God, you will have to prepare an affirmative proposition and present it. I will do the same.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

It would only be irony if I was actually trolling. I was not. Glad to know I spread some happiness, though.

You were. You were stating your opinion in a provoking way, a way that stated that your opinion was the only fact.

If you respected my religion, you would not have posted that it was irrational. I have never said atheism is irrational - just that I disagree with it. That is exactly the kind of response that ticks me off.

[The Celtic Viking]

The only point I wanted to make was that believing in a God might not be irrational.

The point I'm making is that believing in something you have no evidence for is irrational. So far no one has been able to prove the existance of any god, which is why I call the belief in one irrational. It's that simple.

If I presented a valid argument that God exists, it would then be rational as all arguments built on valid premises and a valid conclusions becomes a rational argument.
Would you disagree?

Uhm... no, not really. If you make a rational argument, the argument will be rational. Duh.

And if you want to challenge me to a debate on the existence of God, you will have to prepare an affirmative proposition and present it. I will do the same.

I don't do formal debates. If you have any evidence for your position, I'd ask you to present it, because if you have any, I'd be first in line to see. Surely you don't need the form of a debate to prove your claim if you have solid evidence, do you?

You were. You were stating your opinion in a provoking way, a way that stated that your opinion was the only fact.

What opinion? That theism is irrational? That is fact. It is irrational to believe in any claim that isn't backed by evidence - or even worse, to believe in a claim that goes against the evidence.

If you respected my religion, you would not have posted that it was irrational. I have never said atheism is irrational - just that I disagree with it. That is exactly the kind of response that ticks me off.

But that's just it, isn't it? I fail to see why I should respect your belief any more than I should respect any other belief - like someone believing that the world is flat, for example. Should I not try to tell him that "hey! It's not flat! It's actually a sphere, see these pictures taken from space as evidence"? Should I just respect his belief even though it's wrong?

Evidence... seems like a running theme in my posts here.

[Redleg]

Just as there are no gays in Iran, there are no trolls in the Backroom.

This has been an official announcement from the Ministry of Truth.

I am guilty of being a troll today. Sometimes I just can not help myself when it just jumps out of the screen at what an easy target someone has just presented for me to grab the fishing line and go a trolling......

[seireikhaan]

It would only be irony if I was actually trolling. I was not. Glad to know I spread some happiness, though.

Or is there some other irony there that I missed?

First off, I would say you were trolling to a degree, whether or not it was intentional, because of the degrading way you attempted to portray your counterpart.

But yah, there's another irony you're missing. You claimed that a person who didn't tolerate your intolerant views regarding tolerance to be, well, intolerant. You want to be able to practice your viewpoint and lambaste someone for intolerance of it; at the same time, you'd much rather no other view to be allowed to be exercised.

But really, did a priest run over your pet dog when you were a child, or what? Not like it hurts you if JasonX wants to go to mass on Sundays...

[naut]

If you truly did, you wouldn't be saying that, because you'd respect my belief
[SNIP]
Besides, no belief deserves respect

The paradox is also great.

[The Celtic Viking]

First off, I would say you were trolling to a degree, whether or not it was intentional, because of the degrading way you attempted to portray your counterpart.

Uhm... you can't troll unintentionally, because trolling is defined by intent.

How did I try to portray anyone in a degrading way? (Remember: attacking an argument/belief is not an attack on the person making the argument/holding the belief.)

But yah, there's another irony you're missing. You claimed that a person who didn't tolerate your intolerant views regarding tolerance to be, well, intolerant. You want to be able to practice your viewpoint and lambaste someone for intolerance of it; at the same time, you'd much rather no other view to be allowed to be exercised.

Uhm, no. I pointed out the maniac from Mars' irony - that he wanted others to respect his beliefs, while he doesn't respect my beliefs. I never said that you should respect my beliefs - in fact, I want you not to. If I hold a belief that I shouldn't hold, I want you to point it out for me. I want to be shown when and where I'm wrong - otherwise I wouldn't learn anything ever.

But really, did a priest run over your pet dog when you were a child, or what? Not like it hurts you if JasonX wants to go to mass on Sundays...

Thanks for the condescending remark. I'm not speaking out because "I'm angry" (since when is being angry a bad thing anyway?), but because it's irrational, and it makes people behave irrationally. People hamper research because of it, people discriminate homosexuals because of it, people are generally bigots and have "holier-than-thou-mentalities" because of it, people kill other people because of it. You can't say that other people's beliefs doesn't hurt others, because they do.

Even so, I've said this before and I'll say it again, irrationality should be removed and replaced with rationality, regardless of whether those beliefs hurt me personally or not. Someone believing the earth is flat doesn't hurt me, but if I find someone who believe it is, I'll still try to show them how they're wrong. Wouldn't you?

The paradox is also great.

As I explained to kamikhaan, that paradox was intentional. I was trying to show Mars' hypocricy when he wanted others to respect his beliefs, at the same time as he obviously doesn't respect my belief that beliefs don't deserve respect. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

[CountArach]

Who would have thought? A thread about trolling turns into a thread with trolling...

[Husar]

What opinion? That theism is irrational? That is fact. It is irrational to believe in any claim that isn't backed by evidence - or even worse, to believe in a claim that goes against the evidence.

Rationality is a tool of the devil, he invented it trying to get more of his atheist followers. If god opened your eyes you would see how wrong this way of thinking is but I'd rather see you burn at a stake...

[naut]

As I explained to kamikhaan, that paradox was intentional. I was trying to show Mars' hypocricy when he wanted others to respect his beliefs, at the same time as he obviously doesn't respect my belief that beliefs don't deserve respect. Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

Sure.

Who would have thought? A thread about trolling turns into a thread with trolling...

I agree CA, it was rather predictable. I think we should get back on topic, rather than derail this thread.

[seireikhaan]

How did I try to portray anyone in a degrading way? (Remember: attacking an argument/belief is not an attack on the person making the argument/holding the belief.)

When you stated that NO belief deserves respect. The unnecessary attack on ALL religions, in one massive, blanket statement.

Uhm, no. I pointed out the maniac from Mars' irony - that he wanted others to respect his beliefs, while he doesn't respect my beliefs. I never said that you should respect my beliefs - in fact, I want you not to. If I hold a belief that I shouldn't hold, I want you to point it out for me. I want to be shown when and where I'm wrong - otherwise I wouldn't learn anything ever.

Well, generally, people in the free world have the right to follow whatever religion they want to, or even to follow none. I don't think its too hard to ask of a person that they tolerate the beliefs of others when religion is no longer the driving force behind western politics.

Thanks for the condescending remark. I'm not speaking out because "I'm angry" (since when is being angry a bad thing anyway?), but because it's irrational, and it makes people behave irrationally. People hamper research because of it, people discriminate homosexuals because of it, people are generally bigots and have "holier-than-thou-mentalities" because of it, people kill other people because of it. You can't say that other people's beliefs doesn't hurt others, because they do.

Wow, nice way to categorize every religion in the world as 'teh evilz'. Perhaps you're not aware of the fact that religions were some of the first institutions to encourage the giving of money to the less fortunate, to helping those who couldn't always help themselves? Religion does many good things for society, more so than ever before. For example, a Lutheran church in my town just recently sent just over $1 million in aid to Africa to help with the Aids crisis. And no, didn't require that they all convert to Lutheranism to get the aid, either. Or was giving aid irrational...

Even so, I've said this before and I'll say it again, irrationality should be removed and replaced with rationality, regardless of whether those beliefs hurt me personally or not. Someone believing the earth is flat doesn't hurt me, but if I find someone who believe it is, I'll still try to show them how they're wrong. Wouldn't you?

So wait... How are homosexuals rational? Its not as though a homosexual couple can naturally reproduce. Its not as though humans evolved to desire two men or two women as parents. If anything, homosexuals are irrational, because they break the logic of natural human course. So why NOT discriminate against them, by that logic? If research involves the use of embryonic stem cells, why shouldn't we avoid it when its been shown that adult stem cells which don't kill anything, are much more useful and efficient? Other than that, I really don't know of any other incidents where research was impeded by religion.