Varangian Guard...wtf is wrong with there attack??

[Andrei]

IN kingdoms I've played as all factions(Crusades speaking here) and when i've played the byzantines...well lets say that i got a shock...how the heck does a unit have something like 19 attack and 5 or 6 charge? i mean yeah they are shock troopers but come on fresh out of the barracks and they have 19 attack!!!!!!! Is this normal?? (by the way in vanilla version they were no that efficent and cost effective now they are fixed they smash to pulp any who stands in there way )

[Rhyfelwyr]

The animations of any 2-handed axe unit mean they rely on a very strong attack to keep any sort of usefulness. If they do the proper charge animation and do not just run into the enemy, then they can have nearly the effect of a cavalry charge. If they don't, they'll get minced nearly as quickly as bogged down cavalry.

Its beatiful when a 2-h charge works though. Even with Mutatawi'a or Woodsmen the whole enemy front line will just disappear.

I used to think they were rubbish because I never made sure they charged properly, but I sorted that when playing as the Danes with their Norse Axemen...

[Duke Bart]

Yeah just think of them as cavalry w/o the horses, Fantastic when they charge properly but when they get bogged down then things go bad

[PrestigeX]

I always found 2-hander infantry to be pretty usefull
especially playing as Scotland because their Highland Nobles allow you to get Swordsmith Guilds very quickly, and because they are in true scottish Fashion - cheeeeaaap!!

Varangian guard are okay but when playing as Byzantium you tend to face a lot of HA and CAV armies (turks, hungary, russia, poland, mongols) or you fight the crossbow and artiller heavy armies of Milan, Venice or HRE..
Varangian guard are too expensive and i've found they lose a lot of numbers when faced by the firepower of the enemy - unless ur lucky and happen to fight an HRE stack of Town guards and Spearmen lol - MAsSacre

[lancelot]

I thought there was a bug in the 2 handed attack animations in vanilla MTW2. Has this been fixed?

[FactionHeir]

Only against cavalry. They remain useless (unless charging) against infantry.

[ataribaby]

They seem to be better at fighting spearmen than other spearmen. For instance, I'll always include some billmen in an early English stack in order to counter enemy spears; particularly Armoured Sarges. The billmen can be left to chew through spear units fine without having to charge in and out of melee.

There seems to be some two-hander improvement with Kingdoms and the Retrofit. Although what this improvement is precisely I couldn't say.

[FactionHeir]

Probably because the defense of all units across the board is lower, meaning their high attack has an even higher chance of killing, if the animation were successful.

[lancelot]

IIRC Billmen in MTW1 were good general units instead of spearmen- even against cavalry.

I found in MTW2 (when I was playing it) that billmen sucked against cav and in general would die at an alarming rate.

[Old Geezer]

In Retrofit and LTC the English AI builds recruits about 50 percent billmen which are somewhat better than peasants but nowhere near as tough as levy spearmen. When I played as England I only used them as cheap garrison. I don't understand how the French AI doesn't just quickly eliminate the English unless the AI auto resolve battles grossly overvalue billmen and longbowmen and undervalues the French cavalry.

[Rhyfelwyr]

I never used to bother with Billmen as the English, until I discovered their charge. Plus like all 2-handers they cut up cavalry that are bogged down, but obviously can't take a charge. I soon started taking maybe 4 units per army, especially once Heavy Billmen became available. Great value, 300F and 150F upkeep.

Still you have to use them properly to be effective. They are basically dirt cheap cavalry that are a bit less good and lack the mobility.

[TheLastPrivate]

Don't expect them to perform all that numbers tho.

[Old Geezer]

The 2-handers generally work rather well in Retrofit mods like LTC and SS. I have found the Noble Scots to work very well and the Forlorn Hope are incredible. The Varangian Guard is a very difficult opponent; I never got to use them much in my one Byz campaign because by the time I was able to recruit them and move them to where the action was, I had won. The HRE's Zweihanders are not much use for some reason and not worth the trouble as they are expensive and require an advanced building not conveniently located near my front lines. I have not watched them enough up close to see what their problem may be, if any. The Noble Scottish Swordsmen and the Forlorn Hope annimations look good in the mods - you don't see a lot of delay and they get a couple of good whacks in on spearmen and kill them before the spearmen can get enough puny pokes in to do much damage. Pikemen seem to be able to do more damage because the 2-handers can't reach them well and the pikes seem to have more mass which causes more damage. Does this seem correct to y'all or am I wrong? (I was wrong about something not too long ago but I forgot what it was.)