Game mechanics questions

[drone]

More building questions:

10. Valour bonuses and building lines. I'll use VI as an example, since there are more cases here. The Bowyer line has the Butts, Bowyer, and Bowyer's Workshop. The Gnome Editor has the following under Troop upgrades:

"{}, {UPGRADE_VALOUR(1)},{UPGRADE_VALOUR(2)}"

So this would lead me to believe that units available with the Butts would get +1 with a Bowyer, and +2 with a Bowyer's Workshop (this is what the tech tree says anyway). However, it's not clear what happens when the Bowyer is needed to produce a troop (Mounted Crossbows) and the higher level building is present. Does the engine figure the valour difference between the required build level and the top level building?

(Might not be the best example, since Mounteds require another building line...)

11. Building line bonus replacements (this one has come up recently I think). Again using VI, I'll use the Church line. The happiness bonus for the Church line is listed as "10, 20, 30". My assumption is that each upgrade replaces the previous building in the line, so a Catholic Chapel gives 20%, not 10% + 20%. Is this right?

Then comes the Cathedral, which is a separate building line. It has a 40% happiness bonus. Does the Cathedral replace the Church, for a 40% total, or do they co-exist for a 30% + 40% bonus?

[macsen rufus]

The valour bonuses do work pretty much as you say If a unit requires the "v1" building (eg bowyer) then it will have a +1 bonus in the "v2" building (eg bowyer's workshop).

Where two building lines are required, then the one listed first in the unit_prod entry is the one that gives the valour bonus. So if you had a unit needing a swordsmith and spearmaker, you could set the valour bonus to come from either building: for a swordsmith-line bonus you would enter (swordsmith, spearmaker) and reversing this would give the bonus from the spearmaker line.

The exception to this is for cavalry, where the horse breeder line always gives the valour bonus.

The happiness bonuses do work on a "replacement" basis when a building is upgraded, but where different building types are available they should be cumulative. So church replaces chapel, but a cathedral is extra

[drone]

The valour bonuses do work pretty much as you say If a unit requires the "v1" building (eg bowyer) then it will have a +1 bonus in the "v2" building (eg bowyer's workshop).

Of course, VI being what it is, has to add a quirk. The Royal_Palace building line has this:

"{},{UPGRADE_VALOUR(1)},{UPGRADE_VALOUR(1)}"

So the Mead Hall gives +1 valour to the Drinking Hall-enabled troops. Does the Royal Palace give +1 to Mead Hall troops (Gallowglasses, Dartmen, Beserkers)? Or are they not affected because there is no increase from their required level?

The happiness bonuses do work on a "replacement" basis when a building is upgraded, but where different building types are available they should be cumulative. So church replaces chapel, but a cathedral is extra

That's what I thought. It's logical, since the building lines determine what shows up in the existing buildings window for a province. Thanks for the verification.


I really shouldn't drink when I play MTW, I'm sure it's affecting my observational abilities.

[macsen rufus]

"{},{UPGRADE_VALOUR(1)},{UPGRADE_VALOUR(1)}"

This means that level 2 gives a +1v to troops from lvl 1 building, level three gives +1v to troops from level 1 or level 2 - it does this so the level three doesn't give another valour boost to the lowlier units.

Hope that's clearer than I think it is

[drone]

This means that level 2 gives a +1v to troops from lvl 1 building, level three gives +1v to troops from level 1 or level 2 - it does this so the level three doesn't give another valour boost to the lowlier units.

Hope that's clearer than I think it is

Not really. Let's say the Royal Palace actually had +2, how does the game know that Gallowglasses get +1 at level 3, and Kerns get +2? It's the inconsistentcy that's bugging me here. With levels 2 and 3 giving +1 in the game, I just can't see how it's programmed. I'm not saying it doesn't do what you say, I just can't figure out why.

[macsen rufus]

Not really

Yup, not surprised - was tryng to get one last post in before closing down the PC and going home

I was trying not to use specific units as TBH I can't remember which comes from what level of building.... so imagine something like:

Scheme A:

Level1 --> Grunts --> no upgrades
Level2 --> Veterans --> +1 valour
Level3 --> Guards --> +1 valour

In this version, level 2 gives 'raw' veterans and +1 grunts, and the level 3 building gives raw guards, and both grunts and veterans at +1.

Scheme B:

Level1 --> Grunts --> no upgrades
Level2 --> Veterans --> +1 valour
Level3 --> Guards --> +2 valour

In this version, level 2 gives 'raw' veterans and +1 grunts, but the level 3 building gives raw guards, and +2 grunts and veterans at +1.

'How' seems to be that it subtracts any valour bonus attached to a building which is a basic requirement for a troop type from the one for the building actually being used - hence the +1 from the level 2 doesn't apply to the veterans as building used = +1, basic requirement = +1, bonus applied = 1-1=0.

The level 3 building has a bonus 1 higher than the level 2 in the second instance, hence the difference is what applies when veterans are trained at a level 3 facility, namely 2-1=1, but with the grunt the difference between the level 3 and the "basic requirement" level 1 is 2-0=2, hence the grunts get the +2 bonus, and guards receive no valour bonus at all, as the Level 3 is their "basic requirement" (making 2-2=0).

[drone]

Scheme A:

Level1 --> Grunts --> no upgrades
Level2 --> Veterans --> +1 valour
Level3 --> Guards --> +1 valour

In this version, level 2 gives 'raw' veterans and +1 grunts, and the level 3 building gives raw guards, and both grunts and veterans at +1.

...

'How' seems to be that it subtracts any valour bonus attached to a building which is a basic requirement for a troop type from the one for the building actually being used - hence the +1 from the level 2 doesn't apply to the veterans as building used = +1, basic requirement = +1, bonus applied = 1-1=0.

This is the one I don't get. If the Level 3 building exists, how does the game know to give Veterans +1? If it subtracts the +1 from the Level 2 building (base requirement), why wouldn't they be +0?

Good idea to the switch to generic building/units, btw.