Working tactics for fighting the Pahlava?

[Dayve]

I've come up with a few of my own but they're very basic and don't work as well as they look on paper. I'd like to see how other people fight them.

I'm playing as the Seleukids and have been fighting a bitter war with the Pahlava right from the start. I'm on VH/M so they're throwing elite heavy cavalry archers at me very early on, but they aren't the problem. The biggest problem i'm having with them are the enormous amounts of basic, cheap foot and horse archers they field. They destroy anything they fire at. I've only lost 1 city so far, but 3 are hanging by threads with tiny garrisons of crappy troops.

Trouble is, i can't seem to make any headway. Defending and attacking towns is fine. When their archers are in cities they're not effective at all. However, everytime i get a large army together and attempt to reduce them to drive them out of my lands or even conquer them fully, i get defeated quickly.

As i'm marching toward their towns, i come across small armies of 4-5 units of foot and horse archers, and they have to be taken out before they merge with another army, so i engage. I win 2 or 3 of these battles, but by this time my armies have been so worn down by arrow fire that to go on would be pointless, so i end up retreating.

I've tried armies made up of 50% slingers and 50% phalanxes. I've tried that previous setup but with tons of Pantopadoi used as cannon fodder, i hire all the mercenaries i can, and i do have some success in diverting their attention from raiding my towns to attacking my army, but it's an endless circle where i make no headway.

Any advice?

[Tellos Athenaios]

Yes. It appears your economy is on the powerful side; so now it'd be the time to go cavalry. Lonchphoroi are particularly good against Daha nobles and the like -- big shield, decent armour as well as good attack & defense skill. Plus: fast enough to catch and kill them pesy horse archers too; requires some clever manoeuvering for the lighter end ones though.

And a couple of them are good to go against their early bodyguards as well. Make sure to have a couple of FM's to take over the real melee, though -- hetairoi simply outfight Parthian bodyguards, but are not really the best to catch them with.

[Theodotos I]

There are no effective tactics! You are doomed! You will die! Say your prayers!
Needless to say, my favorite faction is Pahlava. Good luck, Dayve.

[Tristuskhan]

There are no effective tactics! You are doomed! You will die! Say your prayers!
Needless to say, my favorite faction is Pahlava. Good luck, Dayve.

Seconded, you'd better surrender right now and avoid useless casualties...

[craziii]

why would you use slingers??? just use archers, AS got some awesome archers. slingers got super short range for a range unit. 1 volley from 10 super archers will eat 1 unit of those light pahlava archer or horse archer alive.

[Elmetiacos]

I've been fighting the Saka recently with Baktria. They have elite cavalry of their own - they shoot you and then they're pretty tough hand to hand as well. I've noticed that if you have archers and slingers of your own, they will tend to shoot at them first, so try loading up on cheap missile troops of your own to use as cannon fodder while returning fire and manoeuvering your phalanxes and companions.

[Ibrahim]

use subeshi archers if you have any available

[Korlon]

General suggestions for fighting horse archers is to mass long range archers and start shooting. Slingers are nice, but they're generally not needed. Most of the horse archers you'll meet won't have much armor, so the armor piercing lead shots will be wasted. Slingers also shoot slower, and, though their formation is a little looser so they'll probably get less deaths, they also start with less men.

Make sure to use loose formation.

Your main problem would be those heavily armored horse archers. In which case, you should have some light spearmen or some good cavalry of your own to counter those.

[Midnj]

They key is in what you said yourself - in cities they're useless. Why? Because you can close and engage them in melee.

So one approach is to bring fast-light cav.. use two of them to squash a horse archer unit from both sides to engage it in melee. If you want to be doubly effective, bring in your heavy cavalry or infantry at this point to finish the horse archer off while you move to the next one.

But the massed archers is a must easier way to handle horse archer heavy armies. If you're dealing with heavily armored horse archers, you only need one unit of light cavalry to catch and pin them in melee long enough for you to bring in your own heavy cav and/or infantry.