Men-at-Arms

[PBI]

Just gained the ability to build these in my Milan campaign; I am wondering whether it was worth the trouble however, as they seem to be simply a weaker version of feudal knights. Is there any point in building these guys?

In fact, is there any advantage in upgrading fortresses to citadels at all as Milan, besides for defensive purposes?

[Rhyfelwyr]

Just finished playing a short campaign as Milan.

I found Men at Arms very useful. Although they have I think 2 less attack than Feudal Knights and do not have 'Good Morale', they do have +1 armour. Their best advantage however is being recruited from cities. As far as I've seen no other faction gets heavy infantry from cities, with the exception of 2-handers such as the Egpytian Tabardariyya or Varangian Guards. Considering you won't own many castles as Milan, Men at Arms allow you to build very strong armies in just two turns if you control northern Italy. 6 Men at Arms, 4 Italian Spear Militia, 4 Genoese Xbow Militia, 4 Broken Lances/Famiglia Ducale, plus a General and Carracio will beat any AI army.*

*unless it has elephants

[Eikon the Magistrate]

VHI are recruitable from cities as well, with Varangian Gaurd prolly the best INF city trained units.

[trickydicky]

VHI are recruitable from cities as well, with Varangian Gaurd prolly the best INF city trained units.

I thought VHI were castle only troops?.

What are the prereqs to get them in cities?

[FactionHeir]

Varangians are city troops. Afaik Men at arms are castle troops however while broken lances are city troops.

[PBI]

Yes, I was referring to the top-level castle-built cavalry for Milan. I didn't think cities could build them, I believe Milan can build cavalry militia, broken lances and famiglia ducale from cities but not Men-at-arms.

[rvg]

Yes, I was referring to the top-level castle-built cavalry for Milan. I didn't think cities could build them, I believe Milan can build cavalry militia, broken lances and famiglia ducale from cities but not Men-at-arms.

Yep. Men at Arms and VHI are castle-only troops.

[Lord Fluffy]

I'd really like to know the answer to this myself. They seem to be inferior to the DFK's.

[Rhyfelwyr]

Sorry, got mixed up between Broken Lances and Men at Arms. Still, that northern Italy trick for top quality armies is very useful.

IIRC Men at Arms still have +1 armour over Feudal Knights (mounted versions here). And IIRC that armour is more valuable than the Feudal Knights defense skill advantage since armour covers all round and from all weapons (only half for AP), but defense skill only gives its full value against frontal attacks, half on either side, and none at all from behind, plus none against ranged attacks. Also Men at Arms are quite a lot cheaper, and fill up the recruitment pool since Milan don't get a lot of heavy cavalry from castles.

[Old Geezer]

Check the Faust or the descr_unit file of the patch or mod you are using.

[Eikon the Magistrate]

meh I think I was wrong about the VHI....I had em confused w/ broken lances VHI arent to my dismay trained from cities

[mir]

The Turks get Janissary Heavy Infantry (and Archers and Musketeers - one of the best all-round units in M2TW) from their high-level cities.

Although I find it odd that JHI have slightly less armour than Dismounted Sipahi Lancers and Saracen Militia (I think, a bit unsure of this).

[Monsieur Alphonse]

JHI and Saracen militia can upgrade to level three armor (heavy mail) and Sipahi lancers can upgrade to level four armor (lameller sp?)