Historical Question on Cavalry Charges

**george585** · 04-30-2008, 23:33

Hello!
First of all a very big thank you to the EB Team for the wonderful mod they created!
I wonder how cavalry with lances charged an enemy in real life. In game, you can easily have a unit of cavalry arranged in 4 ranks charge an enemy and it all works perfectly. However how in real life the 2nd, 3rd, and other ranks did not smash into the first one when it hit the enemy?
Thanks.

**Midnj** · 05-01-2008, 00:01

Just a guess but I'd imagine the horse was smart enough not to run into the behind of another horse. Probably find a hole. THey probably had some space between the ranks too.

**Korlon** · 05-01-2008, 00:07

RTW-like charges generally didn't happen from what I understand. Horses don't like running into things, goes against their instincts. A lot of times, it was a battle of morale between the men and the horse. Sometimes the horsemen just ran around behind the engaged infantry. That usually scared them enough.

It's my understanding that Alexander used wedges a lot, and probably a lot of other generals too. Same thing doesn't work in RTW, that's why we don't even get the option to form that in EB 1.1. Wedges were used to just push directly through an enemy formation, and then the infantry will fill that space and practically cut the enemy formation in half.

**george585** · 05-01-2008, 00:39

Interesting! Though it's hard to believe that they did not sdmah into one another at all. And I think I have read in EB texts or somewhere else that a skilled cataphhract could actually kill 2 infantrymen in one charge (meaning I guess that the contos went completely through the first one and seriously affected the one behind him).

**eggthief** · 05-01-2008, 00:53

Originally Posted by george585

Interesting! Though it's hard to believe that they did not sdmah into one another at all. And I think I have read in EB texts or somewhere else that a skilled cataphhract could actually kill 2 infantrymen in one charge (meaning I guess that the contos went completely through the first one and seriously affected the one behind him).

U wont see this happen with rtw not even when using cataphracts, but fear not eb2 is coming.

**Slim_Ghost** · 05-01-2008, 08:14

I thought that warhorses are specially trained to be very aggressive, and thus would not be afraid to crash into infantry.

**blank** · 05-01-2008, 10:02

Well if someone physically rammed the infantry line with their horse, these things would likely happen;

1. The horse would come to a very sudden stop
2. The rider would go flying into the enemy infantry
3. A few infantrymen would be knocked to the ground
4. The rest of the infantrymen would hack the horse and/or rider into pieces. Fast.

**Parallel Pain** · 05-01-2008, 10:10

Originally Posted by Slim_Ghost

I thought that warhorses are specially trained to be very aggressive, and thus would not be afraid to crash into infantry.

It's hard enough to train humans, who can be manipulated by peer-pressure, religion, order, or threats to run headlong into a wall. I don't think it's possible to train horses, who are motivated only by instinct and their own survival, to do the same. I mean maybe if we can tell them "do it or I'll put a bullet through your head" but we don't speak horse.

Anyways this is how the infantry square works. It's so compact it gives the men some courage, and even if they do want to run they can't. As the formation remains intact, to the horse the rows and rows of men look like a wall, so they either refuse to charge or shy away before impact. It's the same for line formation as long as the men don't start running or bolting.

**O'ETAIPOS** · 05-01-2008, 10:35

Originally Posted by Parallel Pain

It's hard enough to train humans, who can be manipulated by peer-pressure, religion, order, or threats to run headlong into a wall. I don't think it's possible to train horses, who are motivated only by instinct and their own survival, to do the same. I mean maybe if we can tell them "do it or I'll put a bullet through your head" but we don't speak horse.

Anyways this is how the infantry square works. It's so compact it gives the men some courage, and even if they do want to run they can't. As the formation remains intact, to the horse the rows and rows of men look like a wall, so they either refuse to charge or shy away before impact. It's the same for line formation as long as the men don't start running or bolting.

Horses during charge, if it is properly performed, are acting like during stampede, and this is affecting the way they react. Stampeeding horses do not care what is in front of them, but are running in a way where main group is running, ignoring men, diches or other obstacles.

This means that one horse will never charge line of men, but a big group may do this. But they will only do this if none of the horsemen will freak out and turn before impact. If even one person would break from charge, then whole charge will be destroyed.
This obviously means that a lot is in the mind of those who are charging. If the horsemen were ready to sacrifice they will perform much better and will actually take less losses, as only they are able to charge efectively.