How do you defeat the Mongols?

[Privateerkev]

Ive yet to see a Mongol stack with either a trebuchet or cannon unit (or any seige engine for that matter). Assume you mean Timurids?

Nah, as FH said, the later waves of Mongols have artillery in some of the stacks.

The Timurids are another matter. I have a much harder time taking them as the English because;

a.) They have long range artillery (Panzerphaunts)

b.) I've seen Elephants trample stakes. (though the stakes might still be there, the image dissapears. Regardless, the Elephants don't seem effected.)

So, I try to take them by building Cannon towers in every settlement and just wait for them to assault me.

I can take them in the field (especially if I have cannons and merc Panzerphaunts for counter-battery fire) but I take major casulties.

[FactionHeir]

Ballistae are great for elephant killing. One shot, one kill, plus the added bonus of amok

[Privateerkev]

Ballistae are great for elephant killing. One shot, one kill, plus the added bonus of amok

Yeah but the range stinks. They can just destroy my ballista before they get in range of my stuff.

So, I hire all the merc Panzerphaunts I can and recruit a few cannons. I make their Panzerphaunts my priority and try to knock them down before they do too much damage.

[FactionHeir]

Meh, those elephants need a direct artillery hit to die and afaik serpentine doesn't kill them on impact, only a flaming ballista does (or for that matter, a flaming catapult or trebuchet or bombard). Still ballista is the most accurate and isn't all that easy to hit for them I think. But then in my more recent games I just swarm the elephants with 2H and spears.

[PBI]

I find in vanilla the Timurids (not the Mongols) seem to be very prone to the passive AI bug when attacking river crossings. Thus, you can just fill half your stack with cannons and pound them from across the river while they just stand there if you fancy a really boring way of beating them.

But otherwise I would generally recommend to take them on in sieges instead. Or even in the field, by the time they show up you should have essentially unlimited resources to fight with.

As for Mongol siege weapons in bridge defense, why not just hang back out of range until they start to cross? Especially if they will be forced to charge through a nice stake obstacle to get at you.

[Privateerkev]

I find in vanilla the Timurids (not the Mongols) seem to be very prone to the passive AI bug when attacking river crossings. Thus, you can just fill half your stack with cannons and pound them from across the river while they just stand there if you fancy a really boring way of beating them.

But otherwise I would generally recommend to take them on in sieges instead. Or even in the field, by the time they show up you should have essentially unlimited resources to fight with.

As for Mongol siege weapons in bridge defense, why not just hang back out of range until they start to cross? Especially if they will be forced to charge through a nice stake obstacle to get at you.

Whenever I've tried that, the Panzerphaunts nail my cannons from accross the river. And their Elephants come over, go right through the stakes, and trample my Retinues. I can win but I take more casulties than I'd like and I am usually in no shape to face another stack.

Meh, those elephants need a direct artillery hit to die [...]

Which is why you shoot a whole lot of arty at them. :D

8 Culervins and 30 Panzerphaunts (2 cannons and 15 elephants per unit) tend to throw enough junk their way that something is bound to hit them.

[FactionHeir]

Elephant cannons don't count as true artillery in that a direct hit won't kill. Only some artillery can kill a unit that as more than 1 hitpoint in 1 shot.

[Privateerkev]

Elephant cannons don't count as true artillery in that a direct hit won't kill. Only some artillery can kill a unit that as more than 1 hitpoint in 1 shot.

Their really really long range and they knock stuff down so they are good enough for me.

If 30 rounds are flying at once at the same unit, it will rack up hits soon enough.

I love Panzerphaunts...

[Ramses II CP]

Bah! Cannon towers stink! Force those smelly Timurids to cross the river to get at you and you'll tear those elephants apart. The best way, IMHO, to deal with Timurid elephants is to hire the Mongol style mercenary rocket launchers in the Sarkel-ish area. A couple of shots, even if they don't hit, will drive the elephants amok. If your faction has musketeers they can do a decent job as well, all predicated on defending a river.

Also massed arrow fire, non-flaming, tends to do it as well. Once the elephants are amok, you just have to hold the line and let them do half the work for you. See the end of my TE AAR for an example.

Oh, and I rarely find the Mongol artillery to be any sort of threat. Just like your own artillery, most of the time it misses, only the AI is too stupid to figure out any system like 'aim for the middle of the largest concentration of troops.' Send down a weak company to soak up all those shots and otherwise ignore them.