Petition CA for MTW source code?

[edyzmedieval]

Hello CA.

If any of you guys are still around here, maybe you can answer my question:

Would you release the source code for Medieval:Total War for us fans and modders? Or would it be possible for someone to buy it?

MTW is a very old game (6 years old), you cannot get any more profit out of it, so maybe you would do something for the people which still play it like hell?

Thank you.

[Alexander the Pretty Good]

Asking for Shogun's code might be more reasonable, but I imagine there are still a few trade secrets even in that code that they might not want released...

[Timsup2nothin]

Since I just bought the Eras package a few months ago I pretty much disprove the 'no profit left' theory. If normal game marketing holds its course expect a 'series' package with M1 and M2, and a 'compendium' package with S,M1,R and M2, one right before Empires and one right after.

[Martok]

I honestly doubt CA will release the source code on either STW or MTW anytime soon, and Alexander and Timsup2nothin have highlighted the two main reasons why: Even if sales of these two games were to drop to a negligible level -- which I have a feeling hasn't happened yet, despite all the time that's passed since they were both released -- I suspect it'll still be a very long time before CA would be willing to divulge the (relatively) sensitive contents of their intellectual property. I agree it's unfortunate in a way, but it's also understandable.


@Timsup2nothin: Welcome to the Org, btw!

[edyzmedieval]

It doesn't stand up Martok.
Why would they still keep a 2000-2001 game engine (MTW was built over the Shogun engine), updated a bit in 2002? There's no more support for MTW. The sales are negligible. What intellectual property is still there?

They are releasing ETW, the 5th game in the series. At least give us something to work on!

And if not to the general public, at least to some people and under NDA contract.

[Raz]

Heh, I doubt it Edyz (First Post). I asked Bethesda Softworks to release Daggerfall as Freeware (like TES - Arena) as they no longer sell nor produce it, thus not creating any revenue from it. They turned the idea down quickly and without remorse.

I was really getting ready to sink my teeth into some nice juicy Daggerfall...
Edit: And The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall is much older than MTW.

[Martok]

It doesn't stand up Martok.
Why would they still keep a 2000-2001 game engine (MTW was built over the Shogun engine), updated a bit in 2002? There's no more support for MTW. The sales are negligible. What intellectual property is still there?

I won't claim it necessarily makes a lot of sense per se, but companies do tend to be very protective of their IP....no matter how old it is, and I'm sure CA is no exception. Not to mention which, there's the added wrinkle that they're now owned by Sega, who are probably even more likely to hold onto their IP. So even if CA were willing to release MTW's source code (which is still extremely unlikely), I very strongly doubt that Sega would ever allow it regardless. Like it or not, you and I will probably be old men (if not in the grave) before that would ever happen.

[edyzmedieval]

Yes, but the thing is, if they don't want for free, can they let us BUY it?

Can someone from CA comment on this please?

[Spartan198]

Sure, I'll give a yes vote and help out my MTW-faithful compatriots.

[Raz]

Well put, Kaidonni. But:
-> Paying for a broken game isn't quite their fault, it's a hardware fault, it's like paying for a game that only just came out, and finding out it won't work on your Comadore 64.
-> Whilst it's true that probably none of us are planning anything malicious against CA, if they were to place up the source code freely available to the public, who knows who'd come along, snatch it up, and redistribute it thus making profit from a game they didn't make.
-> Remember they'd be releasing it to total strangers, we may seem cute and fuzzy on the outside, but they've never met us in person, who's to say that we aren't not planning to warez MTW?
-> Whilst I do agree that we should try it, you've got to remember the risks that CA would be gambling here. If it fails miserably there'd never trust us again, who knows, the company itself might fall. There are plenty of "What if's..." involved - as I've said, the company is risking plenty, MTW might be end up being freely distributed across this org as a pirated version.

I'm simply pointing out the "What if's..." here. As for the poll, it's a "Yes" but a significant part of me says "No".

[Kaidonni]

Actually, on the broken game part, it is kind of CA's fault. This is specifically a PC game, and no one is dumb enough (er...yeah, I remember that advert about the clever-dumb balance...LOL...) to try it on their Commodore64. People are expecting it to work on their PC, still, especially seeing as how my version of MTW Gold is on a PC DVD-rom. Is Eras on a PC DVD-rom too? It might mislead some people to think this game, which is suffering hardware issues (that they are not aware of) is fitted out to work on more recent computers. PC-DVD roms are pretty recent, and to release a game on one, or continue it's sale over to that medium... It might be an old game (LOL...well, not old OLD), but there is something about the continual sale of it that seems misleading.

Something really does need to be done. They don't need to trust us with the code, it could be something entirely differing that's mucking the battlefield up. We might be able to find a few files that, just like the ones NTW replaced, need tweaking to work fine. But, something still needs to be done.

When it comes down to it, sure it's a hardware issue, but I will repeat that CA are at least partly to blame for continuing to sell the game, especially on PC-DVD roms (either like MTW Gold or part of the Eras bundle), to PC owners (not Commodore64 or Amiga owners). There is, again, an air about the way the game is sold that makes it seem recent. One day it may break entirely, and we may not ever be able to get it to work after that day. However, I feel that CA is misleading people to an extent, even if not intentional. There should be a warning that comes with the game about the hardware issues, slapped right on the front (or as part of the blurb on the back). It isn't every day you expect a PC game on a PC-DVD rom to not work.

So, even if it isn't to gain access to the code, we should still petition CA for something. I'm certain we can make some convincing argument.

Besides, it's only the actual battlefield that doesn't work properly now. The buttons on that screen match up, and the radar map also matches up and works properly (save for not letting you move so well or change the rank depth of your troops). So, why doesn't the battlefield itself work? Why are there mouse-over problems? Perhaps a few files need tweaking, and that is all, to fix the issue. Just seems rather odd that just one element of the battlemap doesn't work, yet the others do.

Yeah, repeated myself a bit, but hope I made my point. CA can't simply shift the blame on to anyone else. Many modern computers will be having issues, and they are still selling the game knowing it probably won't work. And, like I said, we aren't on about Commodore64's here (for the third time...LOL)...

[drone]

I said yes to the poll, but I still don't think it's going to happen. They may allow it 10-15 years after release, but unlikely at this point.

The only workable solution I see would be for them to allow a small company (under heavy NDA contracts) to see and fix the code for new drivers and new OS versions (when Windows 7 comes out in a few). A port to Linux would be nice as well, but we can't really get greedy. The problem (which is the same problem CA has with patches) is that the regression testing/QA process would be prohibitively expensive, and unless the modders take on that responsibility CA/Sega is not going to go through with it.

So, to sum up, an official patch would be too expensive, but an unofficial patch would compromise intellectual property.

[Kaidonni]

We could always nag Nvidia instead...

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=40869&st=0

Heck, there is concern that problems are even emerging for RTW on Nvidia's drivers. That isn't good at all. What the heck is going on? The latest drivers, the 8800 series, totally screwed up the computer - interface lock-ups from all angles, extremely recent games like Half Life 2 Episode 2 not launching, and crashing (turns out forcing it to load in windowed mode just about bypassed the problem, but it only came out last October...if games, especially good ones with substance, are going obsolete at that rate, why bother at all with them?). Heck, on Nvidia's latest drivers, Maya 8.0, 8.5 and 2008 don't work properly unless you find the thread on CG Society where you sift through for the setting you need the graphics card/drivers at...and those are major 3D animation/modelling packages...