OOC Thread and Chatroom

[Ignoramus]

It either goes to one of them or to some half-cousin seven times removed.

Like Methodios?

[deguerra]

Like me?

edit: although i find it highly unfair my daughter won't get to be a princess, and will have to be married off to some popped up wannabe rather than a standing member of the empire. although, really, nobody is good enough for her anyway.

[ULC]

Ok, I've done a quick run through the trait list and here are my initial proposals for traits we can alter in the University. Some of these have very nice bonuses, but they would take several 'Uni' terms to get to high levels. Maxing out a single high level trait or erasing a bad trait that is at it's worst level would talk half a person's life, which seems pretty balanced to me. Another option would be to limit the number of people who can be in the 'University' each year. Perhaps let the 'Dean' select a small group of 5 or 6 or something.

Skills that can be modified up or down, to any level:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Trait GoodAdministrator
Level Budding_Bureaucrat
Effect Trading 3
Effect Law 1

Level Skilled_Bureaucrat
Effect Trading 5
Effect Law 2

Level Superb_Administrator
Effect Trading 10
Effect Law 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadAdministrator
Level Poor_Administrator
Effect Trading -3

Level Inefficient_Administrator
Effect Trading -5

Level Total_Incompetence
Effect Trading -10

;------------------------------------------
Trait InspiringSpeaker
Level Can_Tell_a_Tale
Effect Law 1

Level Great_Speaker
Effect Law 1

Level Inspirational_Speaker
Effect Law 2


;------------------------------------------
Trait BoringSpeaker
Level Poor_Speaker
Effect Law -1

Level Awkward_Speaker
Effect Law -1
Effect TroopMorale -1

Level Incredibly_Boring
Effect Law -2
Effect TroopMorale -2
Effect Command -1

;------------------------------------------

Trait AcademyTrained
Level Academy_Trained
Effect Command 1

Level Officer_Training
Effect Command 2

;------------------------------------------

Trait ForcedReligious
Level Conforming
Effect Piety 1

Level Reverant
Effect Piety 2

Level Godfearing
Effect Piety 3
Effect TroopMorale -1


;------------------------------------------


Trait Superstitious
Level Silly_Beliefs
Effect Piety -1

Level Superstitious
Effect Piety -1
Effect TroopMorale -1

Level Slave_to_Superstition
Effect Piety -2
Effect Authority -1
Effect TroopMorale -2



;------------------------------------------
Trait Pragmatic
Level Mostly_Rational
Effect Authority 1

Level No_Nonsense
Effect Authority 2
Effect TroopMorale 1

Level Utterly_Pragmatic
Effect Authority 3
Effect TroopMorale 2

;------------------------------------------


Trait GoodTaxman
Level Good_with_Taxes
Effect TaxCollection 10

Level Thorough_Taxman
Effect TaxCollection 20
Effect Unrest 1

Level Cruelly_Exacting_Taxman
Effect TaxCollection 30
Effect Unrest 2


;------------------------------------------
Trait BadTaxman
Level Poor_with_Taxes
Effect TaxCollection -5

Level Sloppy_Taxman
Effect TaxCollection -10

Level Tax_Farmer
Effect TaxCollection -15



;------------------------------------------

Trait Scout
Level Adopts_Scouting
Effect LineOfSight 1

Level Adept_Scout
Effect LineOfSight 2

Level Reconnaissance_Expert
Effect LineOfSight 3

;------------------------------------------


Trait GoodFarmer
Level Farming_Knowledge
Effect Farming 1

Level Rural_Expert
Effect Farming 2

Level Agriculturalist
Effect Farming 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodMiner
Level Mining_Knowledge
Effect Mining 10

Level Mining_Expert
Effect Mining 20

Level Geologist
Effect Mining 30



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodEngineer
Level Admires_Technology
Effect SiegeEngineering 20

Level Mechanically_Minded
Effect SiegeAttack 1
Effect SiegeEngineering 40

Level Engineer
Effect SiegeAttack 2
Effect SiegeEngineering 60



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadEngineer
Level Questions_Technology
Effect SiegeAttack -1

Level Befuddled_by_Machines
Effect SiegeAttack -2

Level Distrusts_Evil_Machinery!
Effect SiegeAttack -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodTrader
Level Understands_Trade
Effect Trading 10

Level Trader
Effect Trading 20

Level Master_Trader
Effect Trading 30



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadTrader
Level Fiscally_Challenged
Effect Trading -10

Level Incompetent_Trader
Effect Trading -20

Level Trading_Liability
Effect Trading -30



;------------------------------------------
Trait Just
Level A_Sense_of_Justice
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Law 1

Level Just
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Law 2

Level Serves_Justice
Effect Chivalry 3
Effect Law 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait Unjust
Level Swift_to_Judge
Effect Unrest 1

Level Lacks_Justice
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Unrest 2

Level Unjust
Effect Chivalry -3
Effect Unrest 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait HarshJustice
Level Hard_Justice
Effect Unrest 1
Effect Law 2

Level Harsh_Justice
Effect Unrest 2
Effect Law 4

Level Severe_Justice
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Unrest 3
Effect Law 6



;------------------------------------------
Trait LenientJustice
Level Soft_Judge
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Law -1

Level Merciful_Judge
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Law -2

Level Kind_Judge
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Law -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait HarshRuler
Level Iron_Fisted
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Law 1

Level Harsh_Ruler
Effect Chivalry -2
Effect PersonalSecurity -1
Effect Squalor 1
Effect Law 2

Level Cruel_Ruler
Effect Chivalry -3
Effect PersonalSecurity -2
Effect Squalor 2
Effect Law 3



;------------------------------------------
Trait KindRuler

Level Reasonable_Ruler
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Squalor -1

Level Kind_Ruler
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Squalor -2

Level Benevolent_Ruler
Effect Chivalry 3
Effect Squalor -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait GoodBuilder
Level Active_Builder
Effect Construction 5
Effect Squalor -1

Level Urban_Planner
Effect Construction 10
Effect Squalor -2

Level Great_Builder
Effect Construction 15
Effect Squalor -3



;------------------------------------------
Trait BadBuilder
Level Not_Constructive
Effect Construction -5
Effect Squalor 1

Level Sloppy_Builder
Effect Construction -10
Effect Squalor 2

Level Abhors_Construction
Effect Construction -15
Effect Squalor 3


;------------------------------------------
Trait Generous
Level Generous
Effect TaxCollection -2

Level Openly_Giving
Effect Trading -2
Effect TaxCollection -5

Level Overly_Generous
Effect Trading -5
Effect TaxCollection -10



;------------------------------------------
Trait Miserly
Level Mean_with_Money
Effect TaxCollection 2
Effect Squalor 1

Level Hoarder_of_Wealth
Effect Trading 2
Effect TaxCollection 5
Effect Squalor 2

Level Miserly
Effect Trading 5
Effect TaxCollection 10
Effect Squalor 3


Trait Disloyal
Level Speaks_of_Loyalty
Effect Loyalty -1

Level Mixed_Loyalties
Effect Chivalry -1
Effect Loyalty -2

Level Disloyal
Effect Chivalry -2
Effect Loyalty -3

Level Actively_Disloyal
Effect Chivalry -3
Effect Loyalty -4

;------------------------------------------
Trait Loyal
Level Generally_Loyal
Effect Loyalty 1

Level Loyal
Effect Chivalry 1
Effect Loyalty 2

Level Very_Loyal
Effect Chivalry 2
Effect Loyalty 3

Level Loyal_Beyond_Question
Effect Chivalry 3
Effect Loyalty 4


;------------------------------------------

Trait Authoritarian
Level 1 Firm_Ruler
Effect Unrest 1
Effect Law 2

Level 2 Strict_Ruler
Effect Authority 1
Effect Unrest 2
Effect Law 4

Level 3 Total_Authoritarian
Effect Authority 2
Effect Unrest 3
Effect Law 6


;------------------------------------------

Trait NonAuthoritarian
Level 1 Fair_Ruler
Effect Unrest -2
Effect Law -1

Level 2 Understanding_Ruler
Effect Authority -1
Effect Unrest -4
Effect Law -2

Level 3 Liberal_Leader
Effect Authority -2
Effect Unrest -6
Effect Law -3


;------------------------------------------

Trait Cultured
Level 1 Cultured
Effect LocalPopularity 1

Level 2 Very_Cultured
Effect Authority 1
Effect LocalPopularity 2


;------------------------------------------

Trait Rabblerouser
Level 1 Instigator
Effect LocalPopularity 1

Level 2 Agitator
Effect LocalPopularity 2

Level 3 Provoker
Effect Authority 1
Effect LocalPopularity 3
Effect Unrest 1

Level 4 Leader_of_the_Mob
Effect Authority 2
Effect LocalPopularity 4
Effect Unrest 2


;------------------------------------------

Trait Gambling
Level 1 Enjoys_a_Wager
Effect Trading -5
Effect BribeResistance -1

Level 2 Gambler
Effect Trading -10
Effect BribeResistance -2

Level 3 Problem_Gambler
Effect Trading -15
Effect BribeResistance -3

Level 4 Slave_to_Luck
Effect Trading -20
Effect BribeResistance -4


;------------------------------------------

Trait Ignorance
Level 1 Ignorant
Effect Authority -1
Effect Trading -2
Effect TaxCollection -2

Level 2 Sadly_Ignorant
Effect Authority -1
Effect Trading -5
Effect TaxCollection -5

Level 3 Blissfully_Ignorant
Effect Authority -2
Effect Trading -10
Effect TaxCollection -10



;------------------------------------------


Trait HaleAndHearty:
Level 1 DeathlyUnhealthy
Effect HitPoints -3
Effect Fertility -1

Level 2 SeverelyUnhealthy
Effect HitPoints -2

Level 3 Unhealthy
Effect HitPoints -1

Level 4 NormalHealth

Level 5 Healthy
Effect HitPoints 1

Level 6 FairlyHealthy
Effect HitPoints 2

Level 7 BastionHealth
Effect HitPoints 3
Effect Fertility 1

Skills which can be taken, but only to level 1:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

RhetoricSkill
Level 1 Well_Spoken
Effect Authority 1

StrategicSkill
Level 1 Promising_Strategist
Effect Command 1

TacticalSkill
Level 1 Promising_Tactician
Effect Ambush 2
Effect LineOfSight 1

MathematicsSkill
Level 1 Talent_with_Numbers
Effect SiegeEngineering 10
Effect Trading 5

PoliticsSkill
Level 1 Political_Promise
Effect Authority 1

LogisticalSkill
Level 1 Understands_Logistics
Effect TroopMorale 1
Effect MovementPoints 1

Trait HorseRacer
Level Good_Racer
Effect MovementPoints 1

The SS ‘Coming of Age’ Education Traits:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Religious Education (Clergy_Edu)
Level 1 Novice
Effect Piety 1

Level 2 Ordination
Effect Piety 2
Effect Loyalty -1
Effect TroopMorale 1
Effect Law 1

Castle Education (Castle_Edu)
Level 1 – Squire
Effect MovementPoints 10

Level 2 Knighted
Effect Command 1
Effect Loyalty 1
Effect MovementPoints 10
Effect Chivalry 1

Capital Education (Cap_Edu)
Level 1 Paige
Effect Law 1

Level 2 Enobled
Effect Law 2
Effect Authority 1
Effect TaxCollection 5

That seems okay to me, but what does everyone else think?

[deguerra]

Seemed ok, although a few like the loyalty or graciousness ones might be questioned. I guess theyre fine, but not really "learning" related.

[Ituralde]

I like the selection, except for the Loyalty, Disloyalty ones and also the Kind and Firm Ruler traits along with the Hale and Hearty line. Those things don't seem to be learnable at some University. At least that's where I would see problems with the IC ties we created. If it would be for some general advancement scheme I would be fine with it.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Hehe. general gdvancement! Or should it be general general advancement, or general character advancement, or just character advancement. I went with general advancement because that way nobody knows what I tried to say! Sometimes English's really fun!

[deguerra]

Sometimes English's really fun!

stupid language...

[TinCow]

The Loyalty and HaleandHearty lines were included mainly for OOC reasons. Loyalty to help bring a character more in line with how a person want's to RP their character (along with my current policy of deleting 'Unwatched by the King'). HaleandHearty was to counteract people who experience severe health problems with the SS supply system. That said, I'm happy deleting them from the list if that's what people want. The reasons for including them are not really that strong.

The chivalry and dread ruler and justice traits are IC IMO. Shouldn't a person be able to learn how to rule their people?

[Ignoramus]

I have another trait complaint:



-6 command is ridiculously extreme, and as for being overconfident, all I did was encamp in my own province for 6 years. I would have thought a cowardice trait was more appropriate given the circumstances.

Also, I'd like to make a small request that I be allowed to play Ioannis' son when the current Ioannis dies. I know we already agreed that players couldn't reserve avatars, but they could make requests of which ones they would especially like to play.

[TinCow]

-6 command is ridiculously extreme, and as for being overconfident, all I did was encamp in my own province for 6 years. I would have thought a cowardice trait was more appropriate given the circumstances.

It is ridiculous, so I just looked it up. This is the trait:

Trait Ovcon
Characters family
AntiTraits Con

Level Overconfident
Description Overconfident_desc
EffectsDescription Overconfident_effects_desc
Threshold 1

Effect Command -1

Level Blatantly_Overconfident
Description Blatantly_Overconfident_desc
EffectsDescription Blatantly_Overconfident_effects_desc
Threshold 2

Effect Command -2

The text description is wrong. It says -6, but the actual effect is only -2. I will include this as a fix whenever I do another LotRmod.

[Cecil XIX]

When you're doing another LOTR Mod, could you make 'Bad Logistician' an antitrait of 'Logistical_Skill'? I've know idea why it isn't already.

[Privateerkev]

-6 command is ridiculously extreme, and as for being overconfident, all I did was encamp in my own province for 6 years. I would have thought a cowardice trait was more appropriate given the circumstances.

I actually found it funny because I see the character as being very "overconfident". I do agree -6 is far too high a price to pay for the trait. I'm glad it is only -2.

Also, I'd like to make a small request that I be allowed to play Ioannis' son when the current Ioannis dies. I know we already agreed that players couldn't reserve avatars, but they could make requests of which ones they would especially like to play.

You should probably keep in mind that Ioannis will only be 33 at this next session. So, when his son comes of age, Ioannis won't even be 50. He might live into his 60's. You'd basically be holding a spare avatar for 2 or 3 whole terms. Though if no one joins the game, or needs a new avatar, then this obviously wouldn't be a problem. Just letting you know that Ioannis will probably live for quite a long time after the son comes of age.

[deguerra]

It does also give you a likely two Basileos' in a row. I have no real problem with that, others might. If you find a good IC roleplayer for your son, you might be able to mold him to your liking IC without having to play him. But I have nothing against your reservation, but agree with PK.

[Privateerkev]

The Emperor will die before the Caesar's son comes of age. The Emperor will be 55 this next senate term. He'll probably live into his 60's. The son won't be of age so the AI will hit us with a whacky heir choice. For all we know, it could end up being Methodios.

I don't know if SS chooses heirs differently, but from my experience with vanilla, my guess would be that it chooses Andronikos Komnenos. In my vanilla SP games, the younger brother tends to be made heir after the original FL dies.

So, while I am against someone playing the Emperor twice, it does not even seem like it will be the case here.

[deguerra]

That stuff is, AFAIK, hardcoded so SS can change nothing.

I was under the impression that the system mostly chose a characters son, if he had one. Given that Ioannis has a son, albeit adopted, Kosmas, I expect the game to chose him. However, given that Kosmas is older than the Caesar, he will likely die first. IMO the most likely follow on from that is Methodios, but it could be the Caesars son.

[Privateerkev]

That's true, unlike my SP games there are already "of-age" sons. This happened in KotR too. After Henry, the game chose an adopted son, Jobst. It passed up Leopold, Henry's younger brother, and Hans, Henry's oldest natural son.

So, my guess would be Kosmas. But he will be 40 at the next session. By the time the Emperor dies, he might be 50 or even older. He'd basically be a "care-taker" heir. After that, it might be Methodios but he isn't much younger than Kosmas.

[woad&fangs]

Are you guys sure we're at war with the HRE? I downloaded the latest save(Ignoramus') to get an idea of what's going on. I checked the diplomacy screen and it only said we were at war with the rebels and turks.

Also, just so I'm sure, the Megas Logothetos will recruit my Avatar in Belgrade and I will get him next turn, correct?

[Rowan]

I just took a quick peek at the save and we are not at war with the HRE. Only Turks and rebels. W T F ?

EDIT: Bah, beat by w&f. (Hi and welcome, btw :) )

[flyd]

Well, the first thing I did this turn was negotiate a ceasefire with the Germans. Of course, the report for this turn comes at the end of the turn.

w&f, yes, the avatars will show up next turn. You'll get three to choose from.

[TinCow]

I just noticed that Antioch is over 50% Orthodox. Are avatars resupplying properly there now?

[Privateerkev]

They resupply 50% at a time if they sit in the city.

So, two turns in a city with 50% your religion makes them fully supplied.

[TinCow]

Good, glad to know we figured that bit out. Beware conquest without priests.

[deguerra]

The priest having been a vital component of any medieval logisticians arsenal

[OverKnight]

I have another trait complaint:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

-6 command is ridiculously extreme, and as for being overconfident, all I did was encamp in my own province for 6 years. I would have thought a cowardice trait was more appropriate given the circumstances.

Aleksios got the same trait after a battle in which he outnumbered the enemy and dispatched them easily. It will reduce and then go away after a few turns.

[Ramses II CP]

By way of an FYI I am unconcerned about Vissa's collection of traits. If any of them seem especially odd under the circumstances I'm sure we can remove 'em, but it'll be a long time before he's a combat character and all the real fighting is done by body guards or under captains anyway, so it frankly doesn't matter.

Thanks for the comment Flax. I was a bit worried because just describing a foul mouth doesn't really cut it, you have to leave people with some impression of just how foul.

[Privateerkev]

I'm going to post House Asteri's new change so I have a better idea on what just happened. Plus, it would probably be a good idea to track how long people have held each position.

They were this:

Antypatos Ioannis Kalameteros (deguerra)
-Hypatos Hypatios Machonios (Elite Ferret)
--Domestikos Zigavinos Vasilakios (rossahh)
---Strator Nevoulos ek Philadelphias (Smowz)
----Strator Kosmas Mavrozomis (Zim)
-----Comes Anastasios Neokaisareitis (The Lemongate)
-----Strator Efstathios Laskaris (Ibn-Khaldun)

Now, they are this:

Patrikios Ioannis Kalameteros (deguerra) *1
-Antypatos Markianos Ameplas (Flydude) *2
--Antypatos Hypatios Machonios (Elite Ferret) *3
---Hypatos Zigavinos Vasilakios (rossahh)
----Strator Nevoulos ek Philadelphias (Smowz)
-----Domestikos Kosmas Mavrozomis (Zim)
------Comes Anastasios Neokaisareitis (The Lemongate)
------Strator Efstathios Laskaris (Ibn-Khaldun)

*1: Ioannis has the amount of landowners to be a Dux but he still needs to spend 5 turns as Patrikios. (He has already spent 5 turns as Antypatos.)

*2: Ameplas has the amount of landowners to be Patrikios but he still needs to spend 5 turns as Antypatos.

*3: Hypatios's 5 turns for being Antypatos start now.

[deguerra]

thanks PK. It's good to know we have a walking rulebook, because I tend to forget bits here and there.

[Privateerkev]

thanks PK. It's good to know we have a walking rulebook, because I tend to forget bits here and there.

Thanks but the walking rulebook is TC. I'm just the helper. And not even a good helper. I'm wrong a lot. (someone might want to go over my last post and make sure the feudal ladder for Asteri is right.)

[deguerra]

I figure he is cheating, seeing as he wrote most of them :P

Your ladder seems right to me, but then I'm no expert.

[Privateerkev]

I figure he is cheating, seeing as he wrote most of them :P

If your not careful, he'll "event" you.

[flyd]

I agree with PK's assessment of the ladder. I've put the new version of my pretty picture on my user page.