OOC Thread and Chatroom

[Cecil XIX]

You mean non-Byzantines lands? Personally, I like being able to compare the sizes of the houses to the sizes of entire nations. But if enough people agree, I could do that.

[OverKnight]

As an alternative, you could highlight the Empire's national border with a bright purple for example.

[OverKnight]

So until TC gets back, I'll be running the Crusade mechanics for him.

I'd still direct any questions you might have to him, as I'm only acting as a proxy.

Also this is my first time playing (assistant) God so please be patient.

I'll make Crusade adjustments once the free move period is over.

[BananaBob]

Just so everyone knows, friday night I'll be going camping for 3 days, then immediately moving in to my first apartment. It will probably take a week for me get an internet connection.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I heard that someone forgot to add me into the Crusaders list

OOC I have nothing to say because I'm in now ..
But IC this can lead to some interesting stories

[Privateerkev]

I heard that someone forgot to add me into the Crusaders list

I didn't want Kosmas to be without his Crusader-buddy.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

After all that talking in the Magnaura about joining the Crusade and if I would have been left out..
I think Efstathios would've been "a little bit" pissed off

Also I looked the election voting thread...
If there would be rule that says "Candidates can't vote," then Savvas would've had a chance to become the Megas

[Dafuge]

I think there should be that rule. I mean getting +3 influence and then voting for yourself is a bit unfair.

[Privateerkev]

Also I looked the election voting thread...
If there would be rule that says "Candidates can't vote," then Savvas would've had a chance to become the Megas

Like I said a page or so back, the election was decided before it started. Welcome to politics...

Look through KotR and you'll see plenty of instances of people rigging elections ahead of time. The form of democracy in these games is quite problematic. (That is not criticism by the way.) Because of the feudal system, there are webs of power relations that prevent a true "one-person, one vote" situation. So, influence and pressure is applied to various people and the votes come down a certain way.

But, the only constant in these games is change. Who is your ally today might hate you, or like someone better, tomorrow. And who might hate your guts today might vote for you tomorrow. So, it's just a matter of figuring out those webs of influence and learning how to pull on the strings.

I think there should be that rule. I mean getting +3 influence and then voting for yourself is a bit unfair.

I see no problem with voting for yourself. This isn't meant to be fair. This... is fuedalism! :D

[AussieGiant]

Look through KotR and you'll see plenty of instances of people rigging elections ahead of time.

Good god!! Are you serious PK!! Who the hell would have been so low as to rig elections!!??

I mean the cheek of these people.

[Privateerkev]

Good god!! Are you serious PK!! Who the hell would have been so low as to rig elections!!??

I mean the cheek of these people.

I know AG, I know! The nerve of these people!

I mean, who did Jan think he was, bribing Hans to throw the election to Matthias!?!

[Ibn-Khaldun]

I have nothing against that influence thing ..
This is politics after all .. just like you said..
But if a guy with +10 influence goes against 9 people with +1 influence then .. THAT is unfair

But come to think of it ... Perhaps this could be good for the game ..
Those 9 other people can just decapitate that 1 guy who thinks too much of him self

[Privateerkev]

I have nothing against that influence thing ..
This is politics after all .. just like you said..
But if a guy with +10 influence goes against 9 people with +1 influence then .. THAT is unfair

But come to think of it ... Perhaps this could be good for the game ..
Those 9 other people can just decapitate that 1 guy who thinks too much of him self

We're probably going to come upon that very situation. In KotR, Kaiser Henry had 10 influence because of his authority. It took a large part of the Diet to overcome his votes. You can see that struggle best in the election of Chancellor Hummel.

Though in this game, like you mentioned, there are ways to take care of 10 Authority avatars...

[Cecil XIX]

Though in this game, like you mentioned, there are ways to take care of 10 Authority avatars...

Although that would be pretty hard to do against avatars as well respected as Henry.

[Privateerkev]

Although that would be pretty hard to do against avatars as well respected as Henry.

That's true but it is possible. Even 9 strators could probably take down a royal army due to the Jedi-like abilities of RBG's. So they wouldn't need the support of the Megas or higher ranking lords.

My point to IK was that it all balances out. An Emperor can get 10 authority, and have a massive influence in voting. But he is only one man. He'll need to gain and maintain a web of support from among the other nobles. Even the ones without land since he could be mobbed by a bunch of them if they gang up on him.

[flyd]

I just had a crazy thought. What if, for example, Kalameteros, who is at the top of the Asteri chain, swore an oath to Laskaris, who is at the bottom of the very same chain? There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules that prohibits it. The "number of vassals" quantities would start to get a little bit undefined, but I think everyone would shoot up to Exarch if you counted around the loop a few times...

[Privateerkev]

I just had a crazy thought. What if, for example, Kalameteros, who is at the top of the Asteri chain, swore an oath to Laskaris, who is at the bottom of the very same chain? There doesn't seem to be anything in the rules that prohibits it. The "number of vassals" quantities would start to get a little bit undefined, but I think everyone would shoot up to Exarch if you counted around the loop a few times...

I'm sure TC will come up with a more lawyerly way to refute it but here is my take.

Here is the penalty for Exarch:

Penalties:
(1) Cannot swear an Oath of Fealty to another Senator

This would effectively break the circle.

Now, if the House has less than 7 people, this rule wouldn't forbid it.

But, keep this in mind, there has to be someone at the top of the chain.

Many powers have the exception:

unless the X is loyal to a Y.

Which means, if your loyal to someone else, you can't use your power, such as priority or destruction.

In a circle, everyone is loyal to someone.

I guess by this logic, if there are 6 people, all 6 would be Dukes since each person would have 5 vassals.



So um... I hope it isn't allowed. Even if we have to come up with some sort of "gentleman's agreement" to forbid it.

[Kagemusha]

Im back. Meaning my internet problems involving accessing Org from home are over. Now i just have to think of bloody good IC reasons for my character being paralyzed all this time.

[flyd]

Im back. Meaning my internet problems involving accessing Org from home are over. Now i just have to think of bloody good IC reasons for my character being paralyzed all this time.

How about something fell on his back and was paralyzed, but now there was a miracle?

I guess by this logic, if there are 6 people, all 6 would be Dukes since each person would have 5 vassals.

Unless you can be your own vassal by proxy, and there doesn't seem to be anything to prohibit this. Then the loop can continue indefinitely, everyone having an infinite number of vassals.

[Kagemusha]

How about something fell on his back and was paralyzed, but now there was a miracle?



Unless you can be your own vassal by proxy, and there doesn't seem to be anything to prohibit this. Then the loop can continue indefinitely, everyone having an infinite number of vassals.

Well thats a way to approach the issue.

[Privateerkev]

Unless you can be your own vassal by proxy, and there doesn't seem to be anything to prohibit this. Then the loop can continue indefinitely, everyone having an infinite number of vassals.

Since you have to swear to someone else, I'm pretty sure you can not be your own vassal.

(Why do I feel like we're having the "Fry is is own grandfather" debate...)

Also, you can only have 1 lord. In a circle, isn't everyone your lord?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

If this is possible then I will be Duke??

Now .. when can he swear Oath to me then??

[Privateerkev]

If this is possible then I will be Duke??

Now .. when can he swear Oath to me then??

Well, if we want to entertain this idea for the sake of academic debate, you'll have to first serve 5 turns as Antypatos. Then 5 as Patriosomethingorother. Then you can be Duke.

[ULC]

Is it me or does this conversation seem less and less about Lords and Vassals and more and more like a discussion on the space-time continuum ?

[Privateerkev]

It also would seem to defeat the idea of a feudal system. (Not that we really try to recreate the feudal system anyways.)

Instead of a top-down power structure, what FD is talking about seems more like a commune or a collective.

Sounds like a new game...

First of the Socialists?

[Dafuge]

No, more Futurama.

[flyd]

It's interesting you should mention the space-time continuum. This is not unlike black hole, you see, which is essentially a discontinuity in space. But space generally has to be continuous locally, which it is (if you zoom in enough), except at the very point of singularity.

This is how I will refute PK's last argument.

Since you have to swear to someone else, I'm pretty sure you can not be your own vassal.

Also, you can only have 1 lord. In a circle, isn't everyone your lord?

Locally, you have one vassal and one lord, neither of whom is you. All the other people, including yourself, are your lord of lord of lord... or vassal of vassal of vassal... etc. But that's all far away. You only swore one oath to a different person, and some other person swore an oath to you. This is consistent with the current rules locally (i.e. special relativity on flat space-time), but the whole thing is now inside a black hole (as in general relativity with curved space-time).

[Privateerkev]

No, more Futurama.

Sorry, but this game is full of Futurama fans. Myself included. I have all 4 of the box sets plus the 2 new movies.

Futurama quotes are inevitable.

-----------------------------------------------------------

Morbo: Morbo will now introduce the candidates - Puny Human Number One, Puny Human Number Two, and Morbo's good friend Richard Nixon.

Richard Nixon's Head: How's the family, Morbo?

Morbo: Belligerent and numerous.

[Privateerkev]

It's interesting you should mention the space-time continuum. This is not unlike black hole, you see, which is essentially a discontinuity in space. But space generally has to be continuous locally, which it is (if you zoom in enough), except at the very point of singularity.

This is how I will refute PK's last argument.



Locally, you have one vassal and one lord, neither of whom is you. All the other people, including yourself, are your lord of lord of lord... or vassal of vassal of vassal... etc. But that's all far away. You only swore one oath to a different person, and some other person swore an oath to you. This is consistent with the current rules locally (i.e. special relativity on flat space-time), but the whole thing is now inside a black hole (as in general relativity with curved space-time).

So, if we all agree that the LotR universe is inside a black hole, then we can all swear to eachother in 6 person circles?

[flyd]

Well, I wouldn't be surprised if the next Basileus got us into a comet field, so we'd just have to steer towards that empty region of space over there, near that blackish holish thing.