Stainless steel?

[G^2]

Hey everyone, I've noticed many of you play Stainless Steel and was thinking about trying the mod out. However, I have some questions that I can't seem to find the answers to after searching the forums and going over to Stainless Steel Twcenter page.

1. How much harder is SS compared to vanilla?
2. How is the unite balance, I really liked the balance in kingdoms (haven't patched to 1.5 yet)
3. How is general gameplay compared to vanilla, ie. can you go on crazy blizts? can you turtle?
4. Are settlements harder to manage?
5. Is it easy to recruit elite units like in vanilla or are elite units harder to come by.
6. In general what makes SS better than vanilla?

I know there are similar threads already, but I read them and still couldn't really get any answers, most people just stated that SS was great without giving many details.

I also went to TWcenter where the moder outlined what the mod did in bullet form (ex: assassins success slightly increased), which left me wondering how this really effected the overall game play. (ex: do you lose more characters to assassins? Does the AI use assassins more? do you use assassins more in SS than vanilla? ect.)

If anyone has a link to a good thread that already exists on the subject please let me know.

Thanks for the help

[Monk]

1. How much harder is SS compared to vanilla?

Much harder. The Campaign and battle AI were originally Lusted's LTC gold AI, so you know it's gonna be a challenge, since 5.1 I believe kong has continued to tweak and improve upon it. The AI uses its Naval forces in good synergy with it's ground troops, movement points feel lowered from vanilla (or maybe it's just the bigger map making it feel that way. Or both.) so you got to be careful with your armies and not let the AI outflank you and hit your cities. I've found using your navy to trasnport your army is almost a must as of course navy movement > ground movement.

How is the unite balance, I really liked the balance in kingdoms (haven't patched to 1.5 yet)

Bodyguard units are a big too strong but they can be taken down like anything else. I've played three campaigns so far; Spain, England and Byzantium and so far I've not noticed any uber units that just rip everything up and cannot be killed. That's just me though.

How is general gameplay compared to vanilla, ie. can you go on crazy blizts? can you turtle?

I haven't tried blitzing but turtling is in tact. I turtled and teched up in my England game and for the most part the AI will honor it's alliances with you and let you be (for a while) to turtle. (unless it's on VH, then they cannot be trusted!).

4. Are settlements harder to manage?

Rebellion triggers in 6.0 were out of this world, 6.1 is a bit more tame in regards to that thankfully. You still have to worry about happiness and rebellion but now its more manageable.

5. Is it easy to recruit elite units like in vanilla or are elite units harder to come by.

You need to tech up if you want the elite units, it takes a little while to get the heavy hitters but the great thing is the AI is much better at teching up than you. After about 1120-30 if you capture one of their castles odds are it's gonna be able to recruit some tough units. I think they may get a king's purse bonus or something since I regularly see little guys like Genoa or Sicily with only a few provinces appearing with like 6 stacks.

6. In general what makes SS better than vanilla?

Reskinned units, campaign and battle AI that can actually beat you, bigger map, lots of new factions, reskinned campaign models for characters/cities/castles. I could go on.

There's also a supply system that adds supply lines into the game; basically it makes so your armies can only be in the field for so many turns before their morale drops. I don't really like it and thankfully there's mods on the main SS board at TWcenter to remove it if it's not your cup of tea.

[I of the Storm]

IMO it is much harder to pull off an early blitz, because 1) the map is much bigger -> longer ways and 2) starting militaries are smaller. So best advice would be to wait a few turns and build basics and recruit some troops, then assemble one or two forces and go after your rebel neighbours. In general, the pace of the game seems much slower. This is something I like and value very much with e.g. EB, but I still have to get used to it in M2TW.

[Old Geezer]

You might want to start a campaign in LTC to get a feel for the slower pace, the way the AI functions, and unit differences, especially the much more effective pikemen.

[G^2]

Thanks allot for all the feedback guys. Yeah I defiantly want a slower pace game, in vanilla I find myself expanding quickly and finishing the campaign way before time runs out. Also, I like that pikemen work better, it always drove me nuts in vanilla having to micro manage my pike units. I don't know how I feel about the army supply mod, I might turn that off. Otherwise I think I'm going to make the up grade. Thanks again guys for the quick response and insight. On more question: did they increase build times for buildings?

[Ferret]

yeah for almost everything as far as I have seen. I don't think there are any 1 turn builds anymore.

[Shadebeard]

Hey guys!

I'm also going to try Stainless Steel, I just finished installing it. I'm not really a die-hard player, I've never even started a campaign on VH/VH basically because I'm lazy.
Anyway SS really looks awesome, so my question is:
What faction should I start out with? I apologize if this has been asked before!
I'm not into Blitzing anyways, so even the slow pace should keep me playing!

[Monk]

Asking what faction to try first is sorta asking like what flavor of ice-cream to get, everyone is going to suggest something different. Me? I'll suggest trying out England, while not a flashy new addition like the Knights Templar or The Cumans; they have immediate enemies in the Irish and Scottish and uniting the British isles almost a mini-campaign in of itself since it's been expanded a couple more provinces.

[Shadebeard]

Asking what faction to try first is sorta asking like what flavor of ice-cream to get, everyone is going to suggest something different. Me? I'll suggest trying out England, while not a flashy new addition like the Knights Templar or The Cumans; they have immediate enemies in the Irish and Scottish and uniting the British isles almost a mini-campaign in of itself since it's been expanded a couple more provinces.

Thanks for the quick reply, Monk! I agree with you, but Stainless Steel is is way better balanced than vanilla right? I mean, in vanilla playing England was obviously a lot easier than playing HRE. Anyway gonna play England first, let's see how it goes! ^^

[Monk]

My first go in SS 6.0 was as the English and I tried to play England as I always had, be a good christian for a few decades and tech up then wipe out the scottish. I was very surprised when my forces were unable to blitz very far north and kept getting bogged down or incuring heavy losses.

In SS the Scottish use their navy very effectively, now playing 6.1 I've noticed in ever single game they seem to take York and then sail around England and take the north coast of France. I've even seen them take Antwerp and start wars with Norway advancing as far as Olso.

[G^2]

Thanks for the help Monk I've noticed that I have to pay allot more attention to my characters in order to ensure they get good traits. Also, as Old Geezer said I can't believe I wasted so much time on vanilla (he had retrofit) when I could have been playing SS. Shadebeard after you finish your English campaign I recommend Genoa as a good faction because you can unite northern Italy and thus have a strong defensive position from the Alps (unlike vanilla were the Alps barely give any choke points), while your cities churn out tons of cash. Beware though, because your cities won't tec up as fast as in vanilla leaving you with Italian Spear Malitia but no Xbows for the first 100 turns or so.

[blado]

Does anyone know where I can find a download for this mod? I've heard some about it but can't find a download/patch required..

[Monk]

First make sure you have Kingdoms, doesn't really matter what patch you use in my experience.

Then go here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=159996

Linked the main 6.1 thread as it also has install instructions and a full overview of what you're getting.

[FactionHeir]

Threads merged.

[seireikhaan]

Umm, a question...

I'm getting a new computer in a week or so, and it definitely is capable of running M2. But what I'm curious about is this: is there still a SS which enables me to get to the New World, that still has most of the benefits of SS? Its sorta something I'd like to be able to do, I guess, at least a few times while not having to play M2 unmodded.

[Ferret]

Do you have Kingdoms? If so I think 5.1 still does and if not 4.1 almost definately does.

Links:4.1 5.1

[Sir Clive Sinclair]

SS is brilliant.

Takes lot of adjusting and more micro-management but lets face it, the "clean" version was just too easy and too stupid to live.

[St.Jimmy]

Does anyone know if the 2Hers are fixed in this mod? Iv heard theres a seperate mod that only fixs the 2Hers? Is this true?

[FactionHeir]

I don't think that outside of a stat balance SS does anything for 2H animations. If you want 2H anim fixes you may want to try mine.

[St.Jimmy]

Thanks FactionHeir. I Have been eyeing yours up for a while. Will I be able to use it with Retrofit and the Grand Unit Add On? Or will i have to use it on its own?

[FactionHeir]

It comes in its own mod folder (well you need to manually create the modfolder first ) like most other mods, so its fully independent unless you add files to it.
I'm not sure if you need the GUAO though as I did unlock most of the unavailable units in it by default.
Re Retrofit, I have my own unit balance, so the only thing it might add are the siege things. Would involved some manual text edit by you to implement them I suppose.