Stainless steel?

[G^2]

Hey everyone, I've noticed many of you play Stainless Steel and was thinking about trying the mod out. However, I have some questions that I can't seem to find the answers to after searching the forums and going over to Stainless Steel Twcenter page.

1. How much harder is SS compared to vanilla?
2. How is the unite balance, I really liked the balance in kingdoms (haven't patched to 1.5 yet)
3. How is general gameplay compared to vanilla, ie. can you go on crazy blizts? can you turtle?
4. Are settlements harder to manage?
5. Is it easy to recruit elite units like in vanilla or are elite units harder to come by.
6. In general what makes SS better than vanilla?

I know there are similar threads already, but I read them and still couldn't really get any answers, most people just stated that SS was great without giving many details.

I also went to TWcenter where the moder outlined what the mod did in bullet form (ex: assassins success slightly increased), which left me wondering how this really effected the overall game play. (ex: do you lose more characters to assassins? Does the AI use assassins more? do you use assassins more in SS than vanilla? ect.)

If anyone has a link to a good thread that already exists on the subject please let me know.

Thanks for the help

[Monk]

1. How much harder is SS compared to vanilla?

Much harder. The Campaign and battle AI were originally Lusted's LTC gold AI, so you know it's gonna be a challenge, since 5.1 I believe kong has continued to tweak and improve upon it. The AI uses its Naval forces in good synergy with it's ground troops, movement points feel lowered from vanilla (or maybe it's just the bigger map making it feel that way. Or both.) so you got to be careful with your armies and not let the AI outflank you and hit your cities. I've found using your navy to trasnport your army is almost a must as of course navy movement > ground movement.

How is the unite balance, I really liked the balance in kingdoms (haven't patched to 1.5 yet)

Bodyguard units are a big too strong but they can be taken down like anything else. I've played three campaigns so far; Spain, England and Byzantium and so far I've not noticed any uber units that just rip everything up and cannot be killed. That's just me though.

How is general gameplay compared to vanilla, ie. can you go on crazy blizts? can you turtle?

I haven't tried blitzing but turtling is in tact. I turtled and teched up in my England game and for the most part the AI will honor it's alliances with you and let you be (for a while) to turtle. (unless it's on VH, then they cannot be trusted!).

4. Are settlements harder to manage?

Rebellion triggers in 6.0 were out of this world, 6.1 is a bit more tame in regards to that thankfully. You still have to worry about happiness and rebellion but now its more manageable.

5. Is it easy to recruit elite units like in vanilla or are elite units harder to come by.

You need to tech up if you want the elite units, it takes a little while to get the heavy hitters but the great thing is the AI is much better at teching up than you. After about 1120-30 if you capture one of their castles odds are it's gonna be able to recruit some tough units. I think they may get a king's purse bonus or something since I regularly see little guys like Genoa or Sicily with only a few provinces appearing with like 6 stacks.

6. In general what makes SS better than vanilla?

Reskinned units, campaign and battle AI that can actually beat you, bigger map, lots of new factions, reskinned campaign models for characters/cities/castles. I could go on.

There's also a supply system that adds supply lines into the game; basically it makes so your armies can only be in the field for so many turns before their morale drops. I don't really like it and thankfully there's mods on the main SS board at TWcenter to remove it if it's not your cup of tea.

[I of the Storm]

IMO it is much harder to pull off an early blitz, because 1) the map is much bigger -> longer ways and 2) starting militaries are smaller. So best advice would be to wait a few turns and build basics and recruit some troops, then assemble one or two forces and go after your rebel neighbours. In general, the pace of the game seems much slower. This is something I like and value very much with e.g. EB, but I still have to get used to it in M2TW.

[Old Geezer]

You might want to start a campaign in LTC to get a feel for the slower pace, the way the AI functions, and unit differences, especially the much more effective pikemen.

[G^2]

Thanks allot for all the feedback guys. Yeah I defiantly want a slower pace game, in vanilla I find myself expanding quickly and finishing the campaign way before time runs out. Also, I like that pikemen work better, it always drove me nuts in vanilla having to micro manage my pike units. I don't know how I feel about the army supply mod, I might turn that off. Otherwise I think I'm going to make the up grade. Thanks again guys for the quick response and insight. On more question: did they increase build times for buildings?

[Ferret]

yeah for almost everything as far as I have seen. I don't think there are any 1 turn builds anymore.

[Monk]

yeah for almost everything as far as I have seen. I don't think there are any 1 turn builds anymore.

That's correct, roads and bottom tier churches are now 2 turn builds. The default campaign turn length for the Early era (SS has a Late era as well) is 1.5 year turns but I did a quick edit and made it 1 year turns to slow it down even more. I'm quite happy with this mod and recommend it if nothing else to try out and see if you like it.

The only thing to watch out for is SS has menu crashes that plague the faction select screen if you jump around clicking the symbols; if you go right to the faction you're wanting to play however the crashes won't happen.

[spud_u_like]

It's already been mentioned but perhaps not stated enough - the map in 6.1 is now HUGE. It's as big as the programming can actually handle and it really does feel like you've built an empire.

There's also a recruitment mod with 6.1 which affects (read as slows down) your ability to recruit high level units. In effect you have to take time building up an army of any quality and then use it wisely once you've got it. Combined with the supply mod, blitzing becomes far more difficult, and you have to plan your early expansion carefully.

I can't recommend it enough though. I'd stopped playing m2 and kingdoms until I found stainless steel. The only downside is the size of thing!


Just to clarify - when I say size at the end there I mean the size in MB of the download, not the map size.


[Merged your two posts rogether for ya. -- Martok ]

[G^2]

SS sounds incredible, can't wait to download it. I just have to find time to move my CPU to download it because I still have dial-up at my house (since its such a large mod). Thanks again to all for their feed back will post my first impressions.

[pevergreen]

Played SS 6.1 for a few hours.

It is a lot more fun than Vanilla, a lot harder. A nice selection of mini mods.

Everything takes so long to build and train though. And the end turn is slooow.

[Old Geezer]

I finally got SS 6.1 downloaded last night. Do you think I'll have time to finish one long campaign, early era before I retire at the end of August? (Who will be the first to explain in 10 pages or less how I can easily win by blitzing in 25 turns without cheating or exploiting or even going to the restroom once?)

[Ferret]

In SS 6.1 I can confidently say that blitzing in 25 turns is impossible, unless you cheat.

[PBI]

Am I right in thinking that in 6.1 they've got rid of the New World? Is that why the map is so huge now?

Makes sense I suppose, to use all that space taken up by empty sea to expand the map of Europe instead. After all, the Aztecs are quite fun the first few times, but I rarely keep playing long enough to get there.

[Ferret]

This is indeed true, there is still a lot of wasted land in the South as well, with some tweaking there the map could be even bigger...

[I of the Storm]

Hm, well there are a lot of new southern provinces in the east. Haven't played that enough to see whether they are useful or not.

[Henry707]

Well G2,I've just downloaded it. My initial impression is that it looks good, very good. I wouldn't bother with too much of the detail. If you aer getting a bit bored with the vanilla version then give it a try!

I find with mods that it is best to try then out & see what suits you - same game, different flavour.

I love the look of the map but remember, it is a mod so there will be bugs...

These guys do such a service putting them together...give it ago!

Henri

[G^2]

Hey Henry707 and everyone, well I finally was able to get SS on my CPU (after moving it to a friends house to take advantage of his high speed internet connection) my impressions. Wow. SS is great I wish I would have tried it earlier. I love how the campaign map with all the extra provinces. I hated how in vanilla the alps really didn't prevent army movement but in SS (im playing genoa) there are plenty of choke points to prevent invasion. (i'm a turtle, defensive player) also love the slower build time, bigger badder rebels, and the training system for your characters. Plus, the AI respects alliances and won't wander around my territories doing nothing. Also, like the titles like in MTW, glad to see them back. Quick question, how do I prevent my generals from getting sick, seems like if their laying seige in the winter they catch phemonia, how do I cure this when they do catch it? Don't think that I will ever go back to vanilla.

p.s. Love the music from Last of the Mochinins(sp?) in the main menu, wish there weren't crashes so I could read all the faction backgrounds and listen to the music. Still a great mod.
G^2

[Ferret]

Hm, well there are a lot of new southern provinces in the east. Haven't played that enough to see whether they are useful or not.

There are only two at the very bottom, one is a town and the other is the large town Mecca, as this was an important city I guess that is why they went so far South.

[Monk]

Curing your generals of sickness is as easy as letting them recoop in a settlement for a turn or two. It's why I've tweaked the campaign a little to be 1 year/turn instead of 1.5 year/turn as there's a lot of character development traits that need to be managed as well as your army/infrastructure

[Old Geezer]

I started a Spanish campaign last night and got to turn 12. I am blitzing about as normal and have taken 3 provinces. I cheated and used "character_reset" to get my Princess over to meet the Pope and get an alliance. She also made an alliance with the Portugese with whom I even have military access. The characters move farther and so do the armies - it must be scaled to the bigger map which is so huge that I am getting a slight delay just before the characters and armies stop their moves. The combat is some of the hardest I've had in M2TW. The armies I started with are small and weak and the AI's are good. The castle assault on Pamploma was a very close run operation and my spearmen really performed poorly against even archers. It was a good thing that I had 2 generals and 5 mailed knights and a jinete. The stats have really been modified, apparently. I didn't bother to check but it seems mailed knights didn't have just a 4 attack before did they? Their charge seemed to be larger. The mercenary spearmen are going to be my schwerpunkt (sp. ?). My wife remarked immediately that the strategic map look much better. Building stuff takes so long that I do not have a cash shortage, which is highly unusual. The added announcements are great. I really like the added ancillaries/titles and added buildings like the school. The Argonese tried to take Valencia but el Cid must have trashed them good as I saw their stack retreat. I think they hurt him enough that as soon as I finish building a ballista maker in Toledo I shall go over and pay him a visist. I guess there is no way to bribe him. I'd really like to take him over to capture Cordoba. I haven't had any generals get sick whilst besieging yet - all the vitamin C and sterile face masks that I furnish all my troops must be helping. This is so much more fun than my last campaign which was a Retrofit HRE that I can't believe I wasted so much time finishing that one. SS is so good that I don't care if Empires doesn't come out until 2010.

[Shadebeard]

Hey guys!

I'm also going to try Stainless Steel, I just finished installing it. I'm not really a die-hard player, I've never even started a campaign on VH/VH basically because I'm lazy.
Anyway SS really looks awesome, so my question is:
What faction should I start out with? I apologize if this has been asked before!
I'm not into Blitzing anyways, so even the slow pace should keep me playing!

[Monk]

Asking what faction to try first is sorta asking like what flavor of ice-cream to get, everyone is going to suggest something different. Me? I'll suggest trying out England, while not a flashy new addition like the Knights Templar or The Cumans; they have immediate enemies in the Irish and Scottish and uniting the British isles almost a mini-campaign in of itself since it's been expanded a couple more provinces.

[Shadebeard]

Asking what faction to try first is sorta asking like what flavor of ice-cream to get, everyone is going to suggest something different. Me? I'll suggest trying out England, while not a flashy new addition like the Knights Templar or The Cumans; they have immediate enemies in the Irish and Scottish and uniting the British isles almost a mini-campaign in of itself since it's been expanded a couple more provinces.

Thanks for the quick reply, Monk! I agree with you, but Stainless Steel is is way better balanced than vanilla right? I mean, in vanilla playing England was obviously a lot easier than playing HRE. Anyway gonna play England first, let's see how it goes! ^^

[Monk]

My first go in SS 6.0 was as the English and I tried to play England as I always had, be a good christian for a few decades and tech up then wipe out the scottish. I was very surprised when my forces were unable to blitz very far north and kept getting bogged down or incuring heavy losses.

In SS the Scottish use their navy very effectively, now playing 6.1 I've noticed in ever single game they seem to take York and then sail around England and take the north coast of France. I've even seen them take Antwerp and start wars with Norway advancing as far as Olso.

[G^2]

Thanks for the help Monk I've noticed that I have to pay allot more attention to my characters in order to ensure they get good traits. Also, as Old Geezer said I can't believe I wasted so much time on vanilla (he had retrofit) when I could have been playing SS. Shadebeard after you finish your English campaign I recommend Genoa as a good faction because you can unite northern Italy and thus have a strong defensive position from the Alps (unlike vanilla were the Alps barely give any choke points), while your cities churn out tons of cash. Beware though, because your cities won't tec up as fast as in vanilla leaving you with Italian Spear Malitia but no Xbows for the first 100 turns or so.

[blado]

Does anyone know where I can find a download for this mod? I've heard some about it but can't find a download/patch required..

[Monk]

First make sure you have Kingdoms, doesn't really matter what patch you use in my experience.

Then go here http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?t=159996

Linked the main 6.1 thread as it also has install instructions and a full overview of what you're getting.

[FactionHeir]

Threads merged.

[seireikhaan]

Umm, a question...

I'm getting a new computer in a week or so, and it definitely is capable of running M2. But what I'm curious about is this: is there still a SS which enables me to get to the New World, that still has most of the benefits of SS? Its sorta something I'd like to be able to do, I guess, at least a few times while not having to play M2 unmodded.

[Ferret]

Do you have Kingdoms? If so I think 5.1 still does and if not 4.1 almost definately does.

Links:4.1 5.1