Worst influence in History

[King Jan III Sobieski]

Which of the following government/economic types have had the worst influence on human history?

[Geoffrey S]

Governments have had the worst influence on human history.

[FactionHeir]

Of those listed, I'd say capitalism. While not being a commie, I still think that with everything revolving about profit margins and company value, our world is worse off.

[Fragony]

Other, emperialism.

edit, did I just say that? Emperialism brought a lot of good as well.

[KarlXII]

Which of the following government/economic types have had the worst influence on human history?

I don't think political/economic ideology is the sole contributor to bad influence. People are significant in making governments bad. Communism is a nice ideology, everything for the people, yet Stalin has left his bad mark on it.

[seireikhaan]

I voted communism. Reason? USSR. After World War II, the U.S. became obsessed with stopping the 'spread of communism'. What'd result in? Vietnam War, anti-communist hysteria(Joe McCarthy, anyone?), Cuban missile crisis, arms buildup that left the U.S. and Russia with enough nuclear missiles to literally anihiliate the entire planet, leaving the world potentially hanging by a thread of nuclear obliteration. Plus, Reagan's method of melting down the USSR was based around the fact that the U.S. could outspend it to death, resulting in the continued growth of a mega-government in what was originally one of the benchmarks for a limited government. And of course, now, all it takes is for one of those nuclear weapons to 'go astray' into the hands of a terrorist organization and we get a whole 'nother barrel full of monkeys.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Communism has killed more people than fascism, and was part of the problem that almost destroyed the world.

Actually, come to think of it, I'd say Eurovision.

[CountArach]

As much as I loathe Capitalism I would say Fascism. Though Stalinism/Leninism (Not Communism) do come close.

[HoreTore]

Actually, come to think of it, I'd say Eurovision.

Seconded!!!!

[LittleGrizzly]

I went for facism but stalinism would have been as accpetable choice if included

[CountArach]

Other, emperialism.

edit, did I just say that? Emperialism brought a lot of good as well.

What good did Imperialism bring?

[Caius]

Everything listed above was the worse thing.

[Reverend Joe]

Fascism. At the very least, Communism and Capitalism had honorable intentions. Fascism is purely up from the very start; nothing good will ever come from it.

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

Fascism. Communism at least had good intentions.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Fascism. At the very least, Communism and Capitalism had honorable intentions. Fascism is purely up from the very start; nothing good will ever come from it.

What do you mean nothing good will ever come of it? It's a practical idea that does more for the economy and the citizens of the nation than capitalism. Fascism had excellent intentions - to revitalize the country. Communism had the intention to steal from people who had made money.

Which sounds better to you?

EDIT: Better question. Which worked better?

[Geoffrey S]

Just what I needed after a long reading session!

[LittleGrizzly]

From wiki
Fascists promote a type of national unity that is usually based on (but not limited to) ethnic, cultural, national, racial, and/or religious attributes. Various scholars attribute different characteristics to fascism, but the following elements are usually seen as its integral parts: patriotism, nationalism, statism, militarism, totalitarianism, anti-communism, economic planning (including corporatism and autarky), populism, collectivism, autocracy and anti-liberalism (i.e., opposition to political and economic liberalism)

Yes that sounds alot worse than communism to me!

[GeneralHankerchief]

In theory:

Communism is the most noble but the least effective.
Facism is the least noble but the most effective.

Communism has the edge because it loses all of its nobility in trying to gain effectiveness, but it can never gain any effectiveness since it's a flawed concept, resulting in a totally repressive, worthless system.

[Tribesman]

It has to be capitalism .
it was the influences of capitalism that gave us communism and the influences of communism that gave the surge to fascism .

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Yes that sounds alot worse than communism to me!

Doesn't matter how something sounds, but what it does. The post below yours took the words straight from my mouth.

[rotorgun]

Facism was a blight upon the civilized world the likes of which has not been seen since Medieval times. To me, it is right wing extremism brought to its ultimate expression - ethnic and cultural cleansing, complete government control of free speech, religious intolerance, and rampant injustice. Of course there is also the way some problems are solved:

"In the course of my life I have very often been a prophet, and have usually been ridiculed for it. During the time of my struggle for power, it was in the first instance only the Jewish race that received my prophecies with laughter when I said that I would one day take over the leadership of the state and with it that of the whole nation and that I would then among other things settle the Jewish problem...but I think that for some time now they have been laughing on the other side of their face. Today I will once more be a prophet: if the international Jewish financiers in and outside Europe should succeed in plunging the nations once more into a world war, then the result will not be the Bolshevising of the earth and thus the victory of Jewry, but the annihilation of the Jewish race in Europe!".
Adolf Hitler - Speech to the Reichstag - 30th January 1939

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Facism was a blight upon the civilized world the likes of which has not been seen since Medieval times. To me, it is right wing extremism brought to its ultimate expression - ethnic and cultural cleansing, complete government control of free speech, religious intolerance, and rampant injustice.

And communism was a blight on what, the uncivilized world? Had to be, since they chose communism.

Communist Tally

Ethnic and Cultural Cleansing - Officially, no. Practically, yes.
Government Control of Free Speech - Very much so.
Religious Intolerance - Intolerant of all religions. Another point.
Rampant Injustice - Communism, check.

Communism matches all of the points you made.

[rotorgun]

And communism was a blight on what, the uncivilized world? Had to be, since they chose communism.

Communist Tally

Ethnic and Cultural Cleansing - Officially, no. Practically, yes.
Government Control of Free Speech - Very much so.
Religious Intolerance - Intolerant of all religions. Another point.
Rampant Injustice - Communism, check.

Communism matches all of the points you made.

I knew this would come up, but I had to pick someone. I'd say they were the second runners up.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Like I said, where's the Eurovision option?

[LittleGrizzly]

Doesn't matter how something sounds, but what it does.

Communism has never been achieved i suppose it could be blamed for causing the revolution which allowed stalin to take power.

If your talking stalinism which i strongly suspect you are im willing to argue pure numbers would show facism to be a far deadlier ideaology, you have to take into account length of rule and population available to kill, of course this isn't even taking into account all the lives lost because of world war 2.

[PanzerJaeger]

What exactly, if I may ask, were the good intentions of communism again?

It seems to me that demonizing an entire group of people, stealing their wealth, and eventually eliminating them for the betterment of society is wrong whether it is the Jewish race or the bourgeoisie.

While communism is based on destroying the upper class, fascism is not inherently antisemitic.

[Evil_Maniac From Mars]

Communism has never been achieved i suppose it could be blamed for causing the revolution which allowed stalin to take power.

What has been done in the name of communism, or what is commonly understood to be communism, is the heart of the argument.

If your talking stalinism which i strongly suspect you are

I'm talking communism et al, which includes Stalinism as well as Juche, Marxism, Leninism, and Maoism.

You are also talking Hitler when you say fascism, even though National Socialism and fascism are different - nonetheless, Stalinism is a brand of communism, as National Socialism is a brand of fascism.

im willing to argue pure numbers would show facism to be a far deadlier ideaology, you have to take into account length of rule[/QUOTE]

That means averages, not pure numbers. Doesn't work. Even presuming WWII was completely the fault of Hitler, the Soviet Union alone still killed more - and most of these during the reign of Stalin, a similar time period to the rule of Hitler.

and population available to kill, of course this isn't even taking into account all the lives lost because of world war 2.

Presuming you can blame WWII entirely on Hitler, which I do not believe you can. Even then, we can take into account nice regimes like North Korea, China, Vietnam, Khmer Rouge...

[LittleGrizzly]

Doesn't work. Even presuming WWII was completely the fault of Hitler, the Soviet Union alone still killed more - and most of these during the reign of Stalin, a similar time period to the rule of Hitler.


Hitler ruled from 1934-1945 11 years
Stalin ruled from 1922-1953 31 years

Stalin had almost 3 times the length of rule of hitler, i can't find the figures on kills at the moment but if we just adjust for the extra 20 years stalin had to kill im pretty sure hitler kills more, if not just take into account the total population both leaders presided over and hitler is clearly the far deadlier leader

I'm talking communism et al, which includes Stalinism as well as Juche, Marxism, Leninism, and Maoism.


well stalinism is simply not communism, it was called it and perhaps somewhat based on it but it was perverted to something which isn't communism, i can't comment on whether hitler is facism or not i just assumed it was.

Presuming you can blame WWII entirely on Hitler, which I do not believe you can.

Then you presume wrong, blame can be put in a multitude of places but hitler and his ideaology can take a large percentage of the blame.

[KarlXII]

What exactly, if I may ask, were the good intentions of communism again?

Everything was given to the people. Everyone was equal. Everyone had equal footing in terms of financial success.

Good ideology, poor execution.

[Pannonian]

Facism. All the other choices at least governed based on ideology, but facists governed based on looks.