Mafia VIII: Return of the Recommencement of the Revenge of the Mafia [Concluded]

[Beefy187]

Vote: Sarathos

Same reason from the previous round.

____________________________________________________________________________________________________ ______________

I just went to BR thread and saw that Sarathos is going to be away for the next three days. He wont be able to defend him self so im going to unvote.

Unvote: Sarathos

In that case Ill have to go on shameless bandwagonning on FH

Vote: FH

[Privateerkev]

A.) People should watch and see who will be the third person on the FH bandwagon.

B.) If we're going to vote for FH, put a couple votes on Kukri as well.

C.) Try to keep them tied. I like GH's system of re-voting tied votes. More voting periods and a longer game is good for the town.

My gut says FH is innocent but it seems some people in here want to keep putting him on the chopping block.

[FactionHeir]

So I still haven't seen a reason to vote me other than for tha sake of voting me. I'd actually be interested to hear wht the voters' opinions are on the game so far and especially last night.

In fact, I's like to hear something from Beefy. All you've been on about in your previous posts is about Sarathos and his exams and other people's exams, but nothing really of value. Trying to stay especially low key here?

vote:Beefy

Now for the letters:

consiidering (added i)
Unfortnately (missing u)
suffciciency (added c)
commmissions (added m)
Extraordinaiire (aaded i)
stuffd (missing e)
occurrred (aaded r)

Someone else find any? Note that using spellcheckers may not find letters that are changed but result in the sentence making so sense, like changing not to rot or brunt to runt for instance, so we need to go through it manually as well.

[Kagemusha]

I still see this whole word game as nothing but a smoke screen created by mafia, thus im pretty sure that there is a mafioso or both of them playing it in order to come out looking helpful. Vote: FactionHeir

[FactionHeir]

Intereting you of all people should say this considering you have not made any useful or analytical post at all so far and almost all your posts are one or two lines:
https://forums.totalwar.org/vb/searc...earchid=141405

You are staying way below the radar this game.

[TinCow]

A.) People should watch and see who will be the third person on the FH bandwagon.

I see no value in this. As far as I understand it, this 'rule' started out as a joke. Somehow people have started to think it is some kind of legitimate magic mafia detector. It's just as easy for a mafioso to be second, fourth, or even (and more likely) the person who starts the bandwagon in the first place.

[Privateerkev]

I see no value in this.

*shrug*

It's better than nothing.

What's your idea then?

*edit*

Did you stop to consider that maybe I picked the word "third" because there were already 2 people voting for FH? Mafia always look for the next good lynch target but sometimes they are afraid to start a bandwagon. So they lurk for part of the day and see who they can add a vote to without drawing too much attention.

Now there are 3 votes on FH so I am going to say to watch who the 4th will be.

Or is that going to be seen by you as also holding absolutely no value?

What will have value? What action by us, according to you, will hold value for the town?

Should we watch voting patterns at all?

(not picking a fight but just trying to generate discussion. I'm still waking up.)



(I'll even throw in a clown smiley to add a happy atmosphere to the game thread.)

[GeneralHankerchief]

By the way, the next person to use a clown smiley will be insta-Wogged. If you're already dead, I shall dig up your corpse, bring you back to life, and kill you again myself. Don't think I'm kidding.

Seriously, no more of those things. I'm sick of seeing them.

[Ferret]

[TinCow]

*shrug*

It's better than nothing.

What's your idea then?

Actual analysis of posting patters, write-ups, and other aspects that have potential 'meat' behind them.

Or is that going to be seen by you as also holding absolutely no value?

What will have value? What action by us, according to you, will hold value for the town?

Should we watch voting patterns at all?

Watching voting patterns is important, but an arbitrary FOS on whoever is the third person to vote someone is not a "voting pattern." That's just the kind of random, baseless reasoning that it's easy for the mafia to hide behind. The whole reason 'bandwagoning' is bad is because it allows people to vote without explaining why they are voting. The more people have to explain their actions, the harder it is on the mafia. Encouraging the '3rd on the bandwagon rule' is just rubber-stamping a system that helps the mafia. 3rd on the bandwagon should be an acceptable reason for voting only on day 1, when most people tend to be joking anyway. That's just the way I see it, sorry if I offended you.

[Andres]

I don't think FH behaves differently then in my last small mafia, where he was townie.

Where's makaikhaan and why do you guys keep ignoring Kukri?

[Privateerkev]

Watching voting patterns is important, but an arbitrary FOS on whoever is the third person to vote someone is not a "voting pattern." That's just the kind of random, baseless reasoning that it's easy for the mafia to hide behind. The whole reason 'bandwagoning' is bad is because it allows people to vote without explaining why they are voting. The more people have to explain their actions, the harder it is on the mafia. Encouraging the '3rd on the bandwagon rule' is just rubber-stamping a system that helps the mafia. 3rd on the bandwagon should be an acceptable reason for voting only on day 1, when most people tend to be joking anyway.

The first vote on someone can be seen as random or meatballing. The second "may" be more of the same. But the third is more likely to be a mafia trying to make sure someone else gets lynched that turn. True, the ones after could be mafia as well but there is a point where there seems to be more scrutiny on the later voters. So, some mafia try to be the guy in the middle. Not the first, and not the last. Also, in smaller games, people tend to be lynched with only 2 votes so the 3rd vote ends up looking really suspicious. Especially if there are multiple people up for the lynch who are tied for 2 votes each.

That's just the way I see it, sorry if I offended you.

You didn't offend me at all! I even risked being re-killed in order to get a clowny smiley out there. Now that GH is threatening to mutilate my corpse, I see I will have to find some other smiley to show that my post is good natured.

(I'll use the laughing one until GH declares that one off limits too.)

[TinCow]

Andres has proven to have very good instincts. Lynching Kukri might not be a bad idea.

[GeneralHankerchief]

Voting over.

Stand by for the execution.

[GeneralHankerchief]

The first day of voting was a distant memory, Chief of Police Beirut mused as he oversaw the procedures once again. Gone, most of all, aside from the people themselves, was the liveliness, the activity. Even removing the fact that the Frontroom, with tonight's execution, would be down to less than one third of its usual capacity, the people just seemed... distant. Inactive. Not really paying attention.

That, Beirut knew, would be the ultimate victory for the mafia.

So, he reasoned, it was time to take matters into his own hands. After collecting the (extremely light) ballot box, he went through it. Of course, the votes were few.

"All right," he said. "Hands up. Who all voted?"

Five hands rose.

"And how many of you voted for an actual person?"

One dropped.

"And how many of you voted for the person to be lynched, AKA FactionHeir?"

One more dropped.

"So," Beirut said, "Three total. Three out of five out of thirteen. This is pretty friggin' pathetic, if you ask me. These are your lives we're talking about here and you're content to sit back and do nothing. I mean, I've heard more from voices in the wind than you chumps. You want to sit back and get killed? Fine! I'll do it for you! FactionHeir, get up here!"

FH, who had been, for his part, fairly active in the voting process if not the voting itself, complied, hoping that Beirut's anger at the townspeople would somehow get him out of the execution. He stared at the Chief of Police, nervous but still trying to convey a willing and helpful expression.

"FactionHeir," Beirut said, "I want you to demonstrate what happens to people when they don't take part in the voting process. In case, in their obvious stupor, they've forgotten what has happened to their dear friends over this past week. What awaits us ALL if we don't start picking up the pace." He shoved a gun into FH's hands and whispered into his ear, pointing at various people in the audience.

FH gave Beirut a questioning look, but the Chief of Police simply nodded. FH shrugged, and without further pause he pointed and shot Caius, Tiberius of the Drake, and Kommodus in the head. All three went down, shocking the rest of the villagers. For the first time, FH spoke.

"There, Beirut," he said, voice slightly quivering. "I've done what you asked. I've helped, I hope, get the town to be more active in the voting process. Since I've done you a favor, do you think I could... you know... get off?"

Beirut simply laughed. "My dear FactionHeir, while they may have only done so in a whisper, the town has spoken. You do have the most votes." And before FH could say anything, or even groan, in reply, Beirut pulled an axe out, seemingly from nowhere, and decapitated his victim.

"I hope you've learned your lesson today," the Chief of Police said. "Time to go home."

Day 7 tally:

FactionHeir: 3 (Gaius Scribonius Curio, Beefy187, Kagemusha)
Beefy187: 1 (FactionHeir)

Abstained: 1 (KukriKhan)
Didn't vote: Everyone else.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Still alive: (9)
Ichigo
makaikhaan
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Sarathos
Beefy187
KukriKhan
Kagemusha
discovery1

Suicide/Wrath of God:
|Sith|R|AntiWarmanCake88
Mithrandir
Fenring
Lord Winter
georgeman51
Caius
Tiberius of the Drake
Kommodus

Killed:
Tratorix
Omanes Alexandrapolites
Andres
Craterus
LittleGrizzly
TevashSzat
Crazed Rabbit
woad&fangs
Rythmic
Quintus.J.Cicero
shlin28
RoadKill
CountArach
Joe Monks

Executed:
Privateerkev
Elite Ferret
peverpink
TinCow
Sasaki Kojiro
Seamus Fermanagh
FactionHeir

PMs please. Elite Ferret is hereby banned from Mafia IX. There will be an announcement come the start of next day phase.

[Privateerkev]

Elite Ferret is hereby banned from Mafia IX.

o_O

While you are the GM, that seemed a tad heavy-handed to me. Just my opinion...

[GeneralHankerchief]

Don't mess with the:

[woad&fangs]

I hope the announcment is that we won

[Seamus Fermanagh]

I'm just happy there will be a mafia IX, though I'll miss Ferret. VIII has been a tour-de-crap for me. I've managed to become the center of attention at the wrong moment and I am likely to have contributed to the town's death. 1 non-mafia lynch and the game ends. Sorry folks.

It's a virtual certainty that I was wrong about Kommo. I simply over-reacted to Sasaki's "why do you think me more guilty than he" post during the tie breaker and just tossed his name in the next voting session. Drew fire like nothing else and convinced everyone that I am not only scum, but dumb at it.

NOT my best game. 'kev was correct -- I'm a bad townie. Too many roles, too much worrying myself about trying to break my Holmes' profile. Didn't keep my eye on the prize.

[FactionHeir]

I hope the announcment is that we won

Unless "we" is the "mafia", it is doubtful.

That said, FoS: Everyone that voted me last turn for not discussing anything and not having brought anything to the debate table.

[KukriKhan]

So, arithmetic time:

Still alive: (9)
Ichigo
makaikhaan
Sigurd Fafnesbane
Gaius Scribonius Curio
Sarathos
Beefy187
KukriKhan
Kagemusha
discovery1

1 lynch today = 8 survivors.
2 kills next night = 6 survivors.

6 survivors. Of whom 2 (at worst case) are killers.

1 next-day lynch = 5
2 next-day kills = 3. If 2 maf survive, = maf win.

So we town have 2 (at max) final chances to be correct in lynching maf.

The really quiet ones among the living have been:

Ichigo,
makaikhaan,
Kagemusha &
discovery1

Since you fellas have not been WoG'd, please explain your non-participation. Quickly. The Finger of Suspicion quivers, awaiting your response.

[Beefy187]

Whats happening? Its not over yet is it?

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

OK, Exams are over and now I can focus with almost full attention on the game. I feel I should give some opinions on the current state of the game.

With 9 people left in the town and at least one mafioso still in business (I believe that both are still alive, see later), things are looking dire for the town. Also, as there has not been a detective reveal as yet, I believe the detective to be dead. Logic would suggest that Tevash was the detective, as his death was spectacular, he was actively searching for the mafioso prior to his death in the write-up, and it was after his death that the riddle regarding the 'lost letters' was revealed.

It is my personal belief that two mafioso are still operating. The last-but-one write-up cast an element of doubt on this, and led to me accusing Sasaki posthumously (my apologies ). However in the last write-up one mafioso had a long conversation while the other had a broken nose. Similarities to the beginning of the game anyone?

OK now to the people left alive.

Curio: Well of course I'm going to say that I'm innocent. Haven't been as active as in previous games due to my exams. They finished today and thus I am now able to contribute more.

Ichigo: Has been fairly inactive recently (lurking?), hasn't done anything to raise my suspicions (or anybody elses it seems), but hasn't contributed much. Will now go and look back on previous posts to find clues.

Makaikhann: Was active early but hasn't contributed at all for a while. More experianced players and American players may be able to correct me here but isn't Khann (from his profile) a resident of Iowa? Where according to the news (even here in Australia!) is subjected to massive flooding. I'd assume that he is having technical difficulties in connecting to the internet. Could be innocent or guilty from posts prior to this.

Sigurd Fafnesbane: Has kept a fairly low profile thus far, made contributions when pressured to do so, but hasn't had much to say. Suspicious imo, but not any more than anybody else at this stage. As we approach the endgame we need everybody to be as active as possible. Also apparently very good at playing mafioso, and has successfully avoided suspicion thus far (going according to precednt maybe?)

Sarathos: Has certainly contirbuted. Had useful contributions? Not so much imo. I'm also guilty of this so I can't talk. Could be either way but I'm leaning towards townie.

Beefy187: Seems to have a similar level of naiveity to me, thus I tend to lean towards innocent, again could be all a front, but I doubt it.

Kukrikhan: I don't see what all the fuss is about quite frankly. His analysis has been well-reasoned and thought through, and put across in a very reasonable way. Has contributed throughout the game and doesn't seem to have done anything particularly worthy of suspicion. Again leaning towards innocent, but with him being a relatively experianced player, will keep an eye on developments.

Kagemusha: Legend due to being one of the few mafioso to actually survive a GH game. Repeating the feat? Has been lurking, meaningful contributions have been few and far between. Worthy of suspicion imo, but only a possible.

Discovery 1: Was thrown by his aggressive style originally, and have yet to be convinced by the arguments that 'this is normal for him'. Less suspicious than others, but has been conspicuous in his asbence recently.

So thats my opinion of the remaining players. Further research and rereading is required on my part, but this is my current view off the top of my head. Feel free to dissect, or disagree with anything written here. I'm probably way off...

[Privateerkev]

'kev was correct -- I'm a bad townie.

When I say people are "bad townies", I mean that they seem to be doing hurtful things to the town. Or at least, not helping. Reading people's posts, I see many people doing things that are unhelpful, or downright harmful to the town's efforts. But there are only so many mafia. So, I basically call those people that I perceive as hurting the town, either intentionally or unintentionally, "bad townies". It is never a value judgment upon you as a player.

People are "bad townies" for all sorts of reasons. They could be bored, busy, fed-up, new, ect... Or, they could be mafia. Since we have to lynch every turn, and only a couple people are mafia, we need some way to rank lynch candidates. The label of "bad townie" is one of those possible labels. Please never think that I am calling you, or anyone, a "bad player". To me, "bad player" and "bad townie" are two entirely different things.

(I would add a clown smiley to balance out what has become a weighty thought-piece, but I would still like to keep open the option of playing in Mafia 9.)

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

OK, further investigation has revealed some interesting things. I will admit that I have not delved into everyone's murky past as yet. I have left those I suspect are innocent out of this in-depth searching as yet. I will finish this tomorrow.

However added to above comments...

Sigurd: Has actually made some useful contributions, they have been few and far between, but he seems to have put some real thought into them. His lack of activity could be down to RL. Not completely cleared in my book, but certainly less suspicious than I first thought.

Ichigo: Has in the course of the game not given one reasoned vote. Mostly seems to be meatballing and joke voting. On the other hand he gave an excuse for his limited activity, and admitted that he probably would be fairly inactive. Worthy of suspicion, but would like to hear more from him.

Makaikhann: Has not been active since the 16th of June, that's almost a week ago. I'd echo what I said before.

Discovery1: In the entirety of the game has made one semi-constructive post. For the rest, shameless bandwagonning, and joke votes are the order of the day. It's all well and good saying that this is normal, but at the very least, to steal PK's phrase Disco is a bad townie. I'd suggest maybe something more...

Kagemusha: Very little contribution. Early on accused Seamus due to the style of write-up. Later on voted Seamus again 'due to my earlier hunch' or something similar. Other than that all his posts have attacked those who are working on the word puzzle in the hope of finding the mafia.

If we lynched all those involved in the word game the town will win.

This says to me that he is trying to divert attention away from this method of finding the mafia, while at the same time running scared. I'm fully aware that other methods should also be utilised (I mean like this for example), but this behaviour has convinced me of his scumminess.

FOS: Kagemusha

I await your response.

Sarathos, Kukri and Beefy shall be subjected to similar enquiries tomorrow or wednesday, depending on time allowances.

[discovery1]

I love how a good chunk of the people still alive don't care at all. Me, Kage, and ichi. Heaven forbid the chat room goons vote as a block. hmmmm.....


Hell our complete and utter lack of participation is a sign of not being mafia. After all, mafia would probably care enough to participate, don't you agree Gaius Scribonius Curio?

[Gaius Scribonius Curio]

And an aggressive and completely off-the-point reply...

...it's as I suspected.

Yes, mafiosi would care enough about the game to participate on one level, (ie: via kills and stuff). In that I am in agreement with you. However talking too much is just as worthy of suspicion as talking to little. There is no definitive way to avoid suspicion. Everyone has their own style. Perhaps this is yours?

My point is that lack of participation results in stagnation of discussion, limited posts (and so less analysis), and WoGs. Joke votes and hopping on whatever bandwagon rolls through town is completely unhelpful to the town. Voting without reasoning is not helpful to the town.

Discussion, analysis, and more discussion and more analysis is the way to root out the Mafia. You may not be a mafioso, but I have to say that from my point of view you aren't helping, and are therefore more suspicious than those who are.

Should this change then my opinion of your guilt may change, as it is I consider you suspicious.

[Andres]

I love how a good chunk of the people still alive don't care at all. Me, Kage, and ichi. Heaven forbid the chat room goons vote as a block. hmmmm.....

If you don't care at all, then why did you guys bother to sign up? And why did you bother to post now? To avoid the WoG? Or are you lying?

Hell our complete and utter lack of participation is a sign of not being mafia.

It is? But you are not showing a complete lack of participation, you are participating right now... You participated enough to avoid the WoG. Those in GH's WoG list are the ones who are guilty of "complete and utter lack of participation".

So that's the second lie in that post.

After all, mafia would probably care enough to participate, don't you agree Gaius Scribonius Curio?

WIFOM.

2 lies + 1 WIFOM in one post

What are your thoughts on Kukrikhan?

[Kagemusha]

As i have explained before. During few rounds of the game i have not really been physically anywhere near internet. I just had three weeks of vacation and i apologize if my participation has not been large enough. Now to the game. I would really like to ask what should have counted as participation? Me asking from player to player whether they are mafia or not?
To be honest i dont see any help for the town, me doing that.
What i have explained before is that i dont believe that the word puzzle has anything helpful for the town in it. What i do think is that in matter of fact, it has been just created by mafia to misguide our attention. If you look at my voting pattern, you can see that i have been voting players, whom i think could come up with such a plan, who might have interest for such a little game inside the game. According to that idea, i supect the remaining mafia to be one of Gaius Scribonius Curio, Makaikhaan or Kukrikhan, in that order. Ofcourse i might be wrong, but so could anybody else. So according to that logic.

Vote: Gaius Scribonius Curio

[FactionHeir]

I think the town should lynch Kage and disco.