The Magnaura

[Andres]

To me that is not acceptable. It is wrong to force people to sack. We need to renew the old edict 3.2.

Edict 4.3: No settlement can be exterminated. No Orthodox settlement can be sacked though sacking of Catholic or Muslim-held settlement is authorized. Crusade targets must be occupied.

Leave the sacking of non-Orthodox settlements to be an option to those who feel it must happen. But do not mandate it.

Ah, dear Senator, please show me the free armies and the free priests shop...

We need money! Do you want our priests to travel naked and to starve to death before they reach their target? Do you want armies consisting of only starving peasants wearing only some old garments as armor? Do you think structures come for free?

Our economy is in dire need of a financial boost. We need money to invest, which investments can create more profit.

You may be a wonderful general, Makedonios, but you certainly don't understand anything about economy.

We simply cannot afford the luxury of occupying settlements!

[Privateerkev]

I personally find sacking to be reprehensible. I wish it were outlawed. We can find money other ways. Building economic buildings, trimming what isn't being used, raising taxes, and sending out merchants are all fine ways of getting money.

I refuse to set aside my morals and convictions all because they are temporarily inconvenient. We need to stand for something.

[_Tristan_]

Methodios Tagaris, looking drawn and tired, stands from where he had been sitting and listening to the debates.

My Lords, I agree with Makedonios and would second his Edict, having been the first to propose one with a similar phrasing.

However I would ask him to amend it and remove the last part about Crusade targets.

The men of Alexandria are to be held responsible for the death of one the best men the Empire had to offer : Kosmas Mavrozomis.

They have to pay for it. I will not advocate exterminating them. Most of them had no part in that death but still all of them took part by funding the armies that caused Kosmas' death.

For that, they shall pay. If I'm able to take the city, I will extort every last copper piece from their purses.

This should provide for our continued presence in Egypt, in the memory of Kosmas.

So I would ask Makedonios to rephrase his Edict accordingly so that I can fully support it.

Methodios then slumps in his chair.

[Andres]

I personally find sacking to be reprehensible. I wish it were outlawed. We can find money other ways. Building economic buildings, trimming what isn't being used, raising taxes, and sending out merchants are all fine ways of getting money.

I refuse to set aside my morals and convictions all because they are temporarily inconvenient. We need to stand for something.

Building? Without money? More taxes? For what? To get a few riots which will result in no taxes and having to train an army to reconquer a rebellious settlement?

Merchants? With what money are you going to recruit them?

Morals and convictions?

Don't lecture me about morals and convictions, you butch...

Savvas takes a deep breath, it seems like he wants to say something, but he refrains. He takes another deep breath, sips from his wine and continues.

Think about it on the long term: no sacking of infidel settlements = not enough florins. No florins, no troops, no buildings, no merchants, no priests, nothing...

Rasing taxes? This will result in rebellions. Rebellions mean we'll have to train armies to retake a city that is inhabited by our own citizens.

Your "morals and convictions" will lead us to chaos, will force us to kill our own and will result in armies not meeting opposition, which will result in even more innocent deads.

In the end, we will be forced to sack settlements in order to survive.

So why not sacking them now?

What seems to be an "immoral" choice at first, turns out to be the best solution, even from the "moral" point of view.

Like I said: the Grandmaster lacks the vision and open mind required to run the Empire.

[Privateerkev]

Sorry Methodios but I will refuse to write a law that authorizes the sacking of Crusade targets. If you want it, write one yourself.

And Savvas, say what I know you really want to say. I can see it welling up in you and causing you to tremble with giddy anticipation.

I am confident that we can build the economy without becoming butchers.

If we give up our common values, just to make things easier, then what will become of us?

[Andres]

Not sacking will lead to more innocent deads in the long term.

Why is that so difficult to understand?

Please senators, I do not doubt the noble intentions of this man, but he is not the best choice for Megas. Like I said, the Grandmaster is narrow minded and focused on strict rules. These are not good qualities for a Megas.

On top of that, edict 4.1 is a direct insult to a member of the Royal Family. That edict has been proposed by one of Makedonios' vassals.

Clearly, this shows that the Order also lacks diplomatic skills.

Tell me Methodios, if you would happen to disagree with the Pope on certain issues during your term as Megas, will you also let your Order call him an "idiot" and risk Constantinople to be the target of several Crusades?

Not only are you not understanding the finesses of economics, you also lack the style and self control of a good diplomat.

[Privateerkev]

I find it ironic that you continue to use the sacking of Antioch against me, while also proposing an edict that mandates that we sack.

You might find me morally strict but I find you to be remarkably flexible in your morals.

As for what my vassal has said of the Caesar, he was rebuked. The Emperor has the power to ban Vissa's letters from the chamber. If you are not happy with how the matter has been handled, then take it up with the Emperor.

Your starting to grasp at straws...

[Andres]

I find it ironic that you continue to use the sacking of Antioch against me, while also proposing an edict that mandates that we sack.

You might find me morally strict but I find you to be remarkably flexible in your morals.

As for what my vassal has said of the Caesar, he was rebuked. The Emperor has the power to ban Vissa's letters from the chamber. If you are not happy with how the matter has been handled, then take it up with the Emperor.

Your starting to grasp at straws...

I didn't mention Antioch and won't mention Antioch during this Senate Session, because I understand that it is a sensitive subject for you.

Taking into account the sensitivities of your opponent is part of the art of diplomacy I was talking about.

And I am not flexible in my morals, Grandmaster. If you would pay more attention to what I say, than you would understand that sacking those settlements is the best thing to do, even from a moral point of view. In the long run, we will lose less innocent lives.

If you are not able to handle the dirty part of real statesmanship, than you should withdraw from the current election and go back to your dreamworld.

Let real leaders deal with reality.

[Privateerkev]

You almost said the word "butcher" and we all know what you meant. You have been mentioning Antioch in both private and public for decades. I now know why you promised in private that you wouldn't mention Antioch. It is because it would expose your blatant hypocrisy.

It would be most difficult for you to keep up your mock horror at what happened to Antioch while your pushing for a law that forces all of us to sack non-Orthodox settlements.

My morals might be unbending like a concrete pillar but yours are like a rope. And you have just tied that rope into a knot.

[Rowan]

During a lull in the argument between the two candidates Vartholomaios Ksiros stands up

Basileos, Caesar, fellow Senators.

In the interest of equal development for all parts of the empire I wish to propose
Edict 4.4: Megas Logothetes is not allowed to fund the building of Drill Squares (level 3 barracks), unless prioritized or no building queue is present, until he has funded at least two Garrison Quarters (level 2 barracks). One of the Garrison Quarters must be in Europe and one in Asia.

Let me explain: at the moment there are several underdeveloped castles in the Empire, two good examples would be Belgrade and Aleppo which guard our western and south-eastern approaches. The purpose of the edict is to see not all military building concentrated on just one or two castles, but spread it out a bit further. After the construction is started on these two relatively cheap structures the Megas is then free to start building structures that allow more formidable troops to be trained.

[Privateerkev]

I wish something like this wasn't even needed. But with the Caesar's criminal neglect and blatant cronyism, I fear it is.

I second Edict 4.4

[Andres]

By being "unbending", Grandmaster, you will do more harm than good, but it seems like you refuse to understand.

Oh well, like a wise man once said: beati pauperes spiritu.

Savvas shrugs.

[TinCow]

OOC: Before anyone brings it up, Rowan checked the wording of E4.4 with me before he proposed it. It is very, very well worded to fit into the Rules without contradicting any of them. It is valid as written and does not need to be proposed as a CA.

[Rowan]

I second Edict 4.3

[Ferret]

That means all the corners get resources.

What about the middle?

Hypatios chuckles at his joke

[Privateerkev]

We don't really have a middle. Every single province is either on or near a border.

If you wish, I'll find some other way to explain it from now on. "All parts" might be more accurate.

[Ramses II CP]

A letter arrives from Vissarionas ek Lesvou and is read into the record by a scribe who grows increasingly nervous as he goes on reading out the points.

I second Edicts 4.3 and 4.4.

I wish to make it known that I was suitably chastened by my Lord and Protector, the Grandmaster of the Order, for my outrageous comments and I further withdraw my own amusing little 'edict' in the name of respecting what pathetic dregs of authority remain to this body in the wake of the latest Megas' abuses.

I would also like to officially apologize to the Emperor, may God protect him, if he was in any way offended that I pointed out the fact of his son's idiocy, resemblance to a pig, or astonishing capacity for damaging our nation through his incompetence.

The poor scribe stumbles over the last words, and looks about helplessly.

I must further apologize to Princess Anna, the representative of Patriarch Nicholas III, Prince Isaakios Komnenos, and Prince Andronikos Komnenos if my reporting the facts of the Caesar's crude habit of pleasuring himself with snakes in any way disturbed their sleep, as it has my own.

Even more so I must apologize to Senators Ioannis Kantakouzinos, Lisas Attaleiatis, and Pavlos Chrysovergos for revealing that syphilis has so destroyed their sensibilities that they have sworn themselves to a mange ridden dog who feeds them only the scraps from his own filthy meals.

The wide eyed functionary has no recourse but to carry on speaking, though his nervous swallows and stutters make the words difficult to understand.

Furthermore I must apologize to Senators Nikiphoros Manouelitis, Methodios Tagaris, Hypatios Machonios, Apionnas Vringas for publically demonstrating the gross cowardice and utter incapacity for thought on the part of their most recent Megas, the Caesar.

And yet again I must apologize to Senators Annios Solomon, Efstratios Monomachos, Michail Arianitis, Savvas ek Militou, and Aleksios ek Ikoniou for my wildly unecessary revelation that the Caesar's favored libation is undistilled boil drainage from the 'ladies' who work the dockyards in the evening.

At this point the reader breaks into a sweat, and turns deathly pale, but clearly feels he must not abandon his job.

Also a deeply heartfelt apology must go out to Efstathios Laskaris, Nevoulos ek Philadelphias, Zigavinos Vasilakios, and Ioannis Kalameteros for my accurate but unwholesome description of the Caesar's willingness to sacrifice the lives of soldiers, civilians, children, cats, dogs, and even priests to further his own pedantic ends.

And finally an apology to the children of the Komnenos household; I purchased and shipped chastity belts in your name in the vain hope that you could remain unspoiled by the hideous depredations of your elder but I fear I am too late, and all of you may already be too old to suit the beast's tastes.

At this the scribes eye's at last roll back in his head, and he faints dead away, dropping the letter, not quite finished. He is quickly carried off by his fellow scribes, all of whom look deeply relieved not to have drawn the short straw on this day. If anyone picks up the paper or chances to glance at it there is but one final line of text.

To my brothers in the Order, I am sorry beyond words, but the brute fact is someone must speak, and if no one else has the courage or the outrage, then I do. I will restrain myself in the future, so far as good conscience allows.

Vissarionas ek Lesvou



OOC: and on the back, in tiny letters, it says:

Chivalry characters do it in the open

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Hearing his name Efstathios raises his head..

Vissarionas does not have to apologize before me since I share his opinion about our 'beloved' Caesar...

[Andres]

Savvas speaks, his whole body screams 'sarcasm'.

Well well, the brave Vissarionas ek Lesvou wrote a letter. What a hero.

He smiles at Makedonios.

Is this the kind of diplomacy we will see from a Megas of the Order? Guess we will be at war with the whole world in no time than...

In a dramatic gesture, Savvas shakes his head.

Grandmaster, you can't even keep your own vassals in line, and you want us to believe that you'll be able to run the Empire?

What a joke!

[Privateerkev]

Still grasping huh Savvas?

Vissa was rebuked. He is not even here. If he wants to send letters, he can until the Emperor says he can't. I say again, take it up with the Emperor if you want Vissa banned.

Your attempt to link his actions in the Senate to my international diplomacy is weak and tenous. And indictitive of your own lack of platform.

Your only running because the Caesar ordered you to. So, now you've followed his orders. Good for you.

If you refuse to debate real issues, then we have little more to say.

[00jebus]

Lisas looks at the scribe who recited Vissa's letter

Kindly remind Vissa that if I have syphillus and chlammidia, then its only thanks to his mothers special offers of a tuesday night...

Then at the grandmaster

As the comes ek Miltou has already pointed out, you lack an understanding of real world economics, though, like a blind archer I once heard of, you've somehow managed to hit something;

The empire is, pehaps the largest employer of mercinaries in the world, some of these are on garrison duty, I ask you now as a possible future megas, what would you do about them?

leave them in place as drains on our coffers?
move them to the front and loose order?
disband them all and leave us horribly weak?
or some middle course

[Privateerkev]

I am amused that this myth of me not having economic ability is floating around. (OOC: Mak has "smart" and "budding bueruacrat". )

There are many ways to gain and lose money. Savvas and I simply happen to disagree on some of them.

But to answer your question Lisas, I do have a plan. I will catalouge all of our mercenaries, research where I can recruit professional replacements, and then offer the owners of the mercenaries a choice.

They can either accept the cheaper professional replacements or explain to the whole Senate why they need expensive mercenaries.

[00jebus]

good enough, though I note to the senate that without sacking replacing all mercinaries with our own professionals or even militia could take years.

[Warmaster Horus]

If I may ask, Savvas, what is your own experience of managing men? I believe a Comes has no vassals? What can we say about that? How can you manage the Empire if you have no experience at all with vassals?

[00jebus]

Lisas turns to Manouelitis

Since vassals are only single men, the question should surely be what experience does he have organising and managing groups of men?
Say, have you resolved any disorder between groups of townspeople?

Unless of course if Savvas ek Miltou is elected as megas he intends to manage us all down to what outfits we will wear and ignore the strategic level completly.

[Warmaster Horus]

Me? I am only a strator with no experience of anything whatsoever. That said, I am not running for Megas. Being one of the electors (with admittedly small influence), I think I can wonder at our candidates' capabilities.

[pevergreen]

I second Edict 4.2

Truly, I had no idea that I had been insulted by Vissarionas, there is no apology needed towards me.

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios raises an eyebrow at Michail.

Let me get this straight. You stand outside of a town... for decades... and then come back here after a long absence... and then vote to order us all to sack?

[OverKnight]

Aleksios leans forward.

Leaving aside the insults and inane accusations that seem to make up a majority of this Session, I have a question for the two candidates:

Considering the current strategic situation of the Empire, what would be the military and diplomatic goals of your term?

[Privateerkev]

Makedonios thinks on it for a moment.

Diplomatically, I would keep pursuing trade deals and map exchanges for any money we can get from it. I say we keep our alliances with the Orthodox, be cautious about making any alliances with Catholics, and not make any with Muslims. An alliance with Catholics could fall apart if we ever get a Crusade called on us. As for trade deals, I would pursue them with any Catholic nation. We have a network of diplomats already so I would just send them on tour. We are currently at war with every Muslim kingdom and I don't see those wars ending anytime soon.

Militarily, I will go by specific regions:

West: I would watch our borders with the Catholics. I believe one day they will hunger for more land and we will be attacked. They can attack us without worrying about their Pope complaining. If they stay peaceful, then we will simply continue being watchful. Watchtowers should go up where needed to give us warning of any incursions. As the Fatimids have shown us, we will always need to keep a military presence in the west no matter how peaceful the Catholics are.

Constantinople: There is still a Jihad going on. While it continues, this city will never be truly safe. We will need to keep watch on the borders and intercept these armies before they reach here like Savvas, Armatos, and I have done. But in case any slip through, there will always need to be a force in the city itself.

Anatolia: I will help House Komnenodoukai and House Asteri pursue war against the Seljuks. I would love to see all of Anatolia freed from the grip of Seljuk tyranny and converted to Orthodoxy. I would see that both Houses get the resources needed to pursue their territorial goals there. Someone needs to administer the provinces there and those two Houses have taken up the call.

Levant: I will bolster the Order's armies to their full legal level so they can defend the area and make strikes against the Fatimids. We will need a land route to Egypt and I will start one during the next term. Damascus is an obvious next step. Hopefully, the Templars and the Germans will stay peaceful. While I am not thrilled with the idea of Catholic Kingdoms having a foothold in the Levant, at least they aren't Muslim. The Germans now possess the Holy City of Jerusalem. Again, I admit I am not thrilled by this. Their Kaiser is so crazy, he might attack the Pope, take Rome, and then give Jerusalem to the new Pope to secure a cease-fire. (OOC: ) But, again, I rather see the city in German hands, than under the Caliph.

Egypt: The Crusade is ongoing and needs to be completed. Once completed, those settlements need to be protected from Fatimid counter attack. A priority would be given to the conversion of the area to Orthodoxy. Besides the obvious benefit of spreading the Faith, this would allow our armies to resupply. As mentioned, I would work towards establishing a land corridor to Egypt.

Navy: I would develop our navy into a logistical tool, as well as a military weapon. Instead of the one giant fleet we currently have chasing it's tail, it would be split up. Smaller fleets would have sectors. They would be responsible for transporting units and agents in the area. As well as serving as a picket force. If resources allow, I would have a larger rapid response fleet to send to trouble areas.