The Magnaura

[Privateerkev]

It is sad that Michail invokes the name of God when he plans something underhanded. He should come in here and answer for his actions. And he can leave the dagger outside this time...

[_Tristan_]

Methodios stands up, with a bemused smile upon his face.

What I find sad, Grandmaster, is seeing Manouelitis coming in here, after the race, denouncing another devious plot, after seeing that Scopia seems denied to him.

He tells us you he didn't answer Arianitis, but what proof do we have ? His good word... We all know, and I particularly, the worth of his word, so spare us...

Who is there to tell us that he didn't take Arainitis up on his offer ? The result of the race seems to demonstrate just that he did...

Before you try to drag me in the mud with you, Manouelitis, I'll advise you to think twice... Arianitis offered me the same deal but rather than remain coy about it, I went to the Basileos, before the race, to ask him to resolve the matter in any other way as the race seemed compromised.

Our Basileos in his wisdom waited until the culprits played their hands... How wise of him...

So please don't act the aggrieved party... It is not in character...

Methodios then sits back down, slowly shaking his head, and looking at Manouelitis.

[AussieGiant]

Apionnas glances at the Basileos for just a second before standing.

Given the lack of decorum and subversion of the Basileos authority and elegant solution, I'd recommend straight forward banishment to some god forsaken part of the world. Something that would seem quite appropriate given the circumstance. That or being buried to the neck is sand and who ever is alive after 5 days takes the province.

Failing that, lets simply do it the old fashioned way.

Each noble makes his case here in the Magnaura before the Basileos.

Then let him decide. End of story.

[_Tristan_]

Methodios nods at Apionnas.

Don't you think I may already have pleaded my case to the Basileos ? That was for his ears alone... Unless he deems it necessary it is made public before this assembly...

Anyhow I do not think our Basileos is so blind or deaf or so short of memory as to be in need of being reminded of the
facts of the case at hand.

With all due respect, all we need at this time is a definite solution to a long-lived feud.

Don't you agree ?

[AussieGiant]

I believe you have stated you case Methodios.

But, to hear publicly all aspects, accusations pleas and come to a conclusion, then this is best done in the open here in this assembly. That way the Empire, the people and the wider world can see the true strength, wisdom and insight of our leader.

With all due respect, enough time has passed to possibly invade and conquer whole new worlds. This farce must end now before it turns things into a pure mockery of an issue.

The Basileos should in my view make the topic public here before your fellow peers and then pass justice down as it has always been done.

[Warmaster Horus]

Nikiphoros returns to the Magnaura.
I will do it if Tagaris agrees.

Tagaris, I won the race. Why would I take steps to trick it?

[_Tristan_]

Methodios stares at Manouelitis.

Are you dumb ? (OOC : Strictly IC...) You won because Arianitis tricked it for you... What was his price, I do not know... Truly, you must have been wanting that province badly...

Looking at Apionnas.

I ask for nothing more but for this farce to end. I had hoped for a quick and fair decision of our Basileos but having the welfare of his people at heart our Basileos thought he might entertain us while rendering justice... But even that was denied us, though I'll admit that was a damn good race...

So yes, I want this farce to end, and the sooner, the better...

[Warmaster Horus]

And are you a fool? He tricked it in such an obvious manner that trickery was obvious. Hence this current debate on how to resolve this.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

OOC: IC of course. This thread is about IC discussion.

[AussieGiant]

Excellent. Lets hope the Basileos takes a benevolent view on proceedings.

I for one now wonder just how patient our Basileos can be in this situation.

[_Tristan_]

The thing is that you may regret not having chosen a better "ally" in trying to win this race... Now you denounce him to try and set you apart from him but I have, and I hope others beside me, have no doubt as to who was behind Arianitis' actions...

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Boo hoo.. I won the race and I can't get the province.. or.. I lost the province and the world is against me.. woo woo.. let us all cry.. this is so terrible..

Theo burst into laugh...

Oh well.. you two get over it.. I might ask this Scopia for myself from the Basileus if that solves everything.. Come to think of it.. It's quite good plan..

Theo continues to laugh over Nikiphoros and Methodios..

[Warmaster Horus]

Petzeas, I will say this once. If you do not have anything useful to add to our conversation, do not say anything at all.
Tagaris, maybe we should wait until Arianitis speaks to see what he's got to say for his actions.
Of course, the only authority I recognize here is the Basileus. When he speaks of this problem, his word will be final. If I lose the province, so be it.

[_Tristan_]

Methodios scowls at Manouelitis.

Yes... Sure... Let's wait on your "accomplice" to admit his wrongdoings... Let's hear him tell us that you had nothing to do with that... Let's hear him put the blame on me... And let us all believe every single word that comes out of his mouth...

Yes... Let's do that...

[Warmaster Horus]

Or let's wait for the Basileus to decide. The facts I believe he knows. If we must say them again, I'll do it.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Oh well.. You want me to add something to the conversation.. very well..

Basileus.. I am new person in this crazy Magnaura but looks like those two are ready to cut each other throaths open.. not that I have any problem with that..
But what I wanted to say is, I ask Scopia for myself.. This way we can end this stupid and.. umm.. stupid thing over it..

Theo takes a little sip from his bottle..

Good wine.. Very good wine indeed..

He says quietly to himself..

[Ferret]

Petzeas, I will say this once. If you do not have anything useful to add to our conversation, do not say anything at all.

Who are you to command other senators to silence? If you really want to talk to each other in private then I understand there is a bar for human specimens such as yourself, interested in that kind of man to man interaction, just down the road from here.

[ULC]

Nikolaos shakes his head at Theo.

"I am sorry, come again senator? May I ask by what right, divine or secular, that entitles you to Scopia? If the Emperor truly wanted to end this, he would simply take the province for himself. But no, he has decided that it should be between these two, who claim the most right to it. You sit in Markianople, far from any near the very walls of Scopia, and yet you would say you have a right to it?"

Nikolaos grunts as he shifts his position in his to small chair. "I think, instead of trying to base a sound judgment on an unsound race, we should try a different path."

[Privateerkev]

*sighs*

I'm not sure how any of this conversation is doing honor to the actual citizens of Scopia. Has everyone forgotten about them? Let the Emperor rule and lets be done with this.

[ULC]

Nikolaos nods his head at Makedonios.

"I wholeheartedly agree. I'd also like to mention that Isaakios had the forethought to actually suggest we at least let it be between Nikiphoros and Methodios to curb any outside influences. He was shouted down by none other the Michial himself..."

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Now.. Grandmaster have said it.. Let's think about the people of Scopia.
Those two don't care about them.. They just want to hurt the other side.. both verbally and physically.. I'm sure that once they get Scopia they will forget it and the people will rot in that place and their lives will go worse and worse every day..

But I do care about them..
Yes I am currently in Markianople.. But I am here only because I defend the Empire... It's a shame that we have to be in the same army once we siege Adana, Nikiphoros..

[ULC]

Nikolaos gives Theo a look

"You speak for Methodios and Nikiphoros and claim to know their motives? Do not think so much of yourself."

[Privateerkev]

To Theo:

I don't doubt the motives of the other two men.

As for Adana, as I have told the others, your assistance will no longer be needed. I will siege the castle this year. That will free you guys up to go after the Jihad army to your west.

Two Jihad armies are heading towards Constantinople right now. The city will have difficulty if it tries to defend both sides. Since there is no force that can intercept the Moors, that will fall to the city's defenders. But the Fatimids can be stopped ahead of time.

[Ibn-Khaldun]

Conspiracy..

This is the only word that comes from Theo's mouth and then taking another sip from the bottle..

[OverKnight]

Aleksios enters the Magnaura.

I am displeased that matters in the Hippodrome failed to resolve the issue of Scopia. However, I will not let a tainted race decide the matter. I had hoped a bit of sport would have saved us from a interminable amount of legal squabbling but I guess nothing on Earth can get between a Lawyer and his pound of flesh.

Aleksios seems a bit resigned to his fate.

Therefore, I want a summation in the Magnaura from both Senator Manouelitis and Senator Tagaris on why each of them is entitled to Scopia. I invite them to peruse the records and reference them to aid their claim. A cursory review of the minutes shows that Scopia has been exchanged more often than a whore at the docks.

Each Senator is allowed one speech to stake their claim and then one rebuttal to the other's originial case. I will then decide who has the better claim.

[pevergreen]

Michail wakes up, scattered revision of economics all around him

A group of Varangians march you up to the Kathisma and the Basileus is waiting.

He asks, "Trying to play God, Senator Arianitis? Why did you have Ferro cheat? An honest answer or I'll make sure you never sponsor another race again."

My lord....Something of a personal Vendetta.

My instructions to my driver was merely to be in the lead at the end, and then let the opposing team win. My personal feud with the losing party stretches back many years.

"My exact instructions to my driver. I did not order him to use violence, but simply not to win."

[Privateerkev]

So cheating at the game of chance that the Emperor set up to settle a land dispute is ok as long as you don't use violence?

[ULC]

Nikolaos shakes his head.

"I see Michail, that you would interrupt the Basileus's judgment for a mere personal vendetta. That is shallow and selfish beyond words. The Hippodrome is no stranger to cheating, but this goes beyond that."

[_Tristan_]

Methodios walks to the centre of the hall and bows to the Basileos. Then turning on his heels, he quickly scans the benches where his fellow Senators are sitting.

Basileos,
Caesar,
Fellow Senators,

I am here in accordance with our Basileos’ will to state my claim on the ownership of Scopia.

I am no lawyer… I consider myself a soldier and I am more at ease on my charger than on the floor of the Senate.

So, I’ll try not to bore you with words.

Scopia was bequeathed to me by my fellow Crusader and sponsor Kosmas Mavrozomis. Kosmas and I believed in the same ideals and we wanted to create a House that would work for the greater good of the Empire. With his death, that ideal could have been struck down but for the fact that his gift of his land to me allowed for the continuation of House Ilios Korakas.

Now, new Senators came to join us… Annios Solomon, who was barred from it by Michail Arianitis, on pretense of oath-breaking when the same Arianitis abandoned his own House to join another in the days that followed… Nikiphoros Manouelitis, whose pledge hid some ulterior motives as I will demonstrate…

For, in the months that followed, I led my crusading army on an assault on Alexandria, after witnessing the gruesome treatment dealt to Kosmas by the fanatical heathens of the city. Blinded by hatred, I ordered the massacre of any and all of the men that belonged to that devil spawn. Thinking back, I regret the cost in human lives… But with hindsight, I think it was necessary… See where our fair treatment of Cairo led us… A city rioting, causing the death of 6000 souls and more to come… These heathens had to be shown the might of the Empire to kick out of their minds any idea of rebellion and this is what I did.

Now, some among you have wished me punished for that breach of an Edict voted by this body. Some of you saw it as a sin against God.
Our Megas set me a penance, a harsh one that put me in danger of losing my life to the riotous mobs of Cairo. But I took it up in stride and served it to the best of my abilities.

Even though our Basileos, our prime judge after God, remained silent on the matter, some decided this was not enough punishment. Manouelitis was among them. But where most remained inactive, he chose to act. He first came to me, privately, questioning my conduct in a way that made me doubtful of his commitment to our House, so I released him of his oath.

But in his scheming and devious mind, a plan had hatched. So forsaking any honor, he pleaded, he groveled to be allowed back, going as far as pledging his life to me. Fool that I was, I believed in his lies and allowed him to re-swear his oath to me. Even more, I was so moved by his pledge that I thought it deserved a reward and I granted him Scopia, a settlement I held dear for the reasons stated above, to govern. Now the fox had entered the henhouse…

Next thing I know, using the rules of a House he had no care about, Manouelitis staged a coup, expulsing me and trying to wrest from me the province of Alexandria. I relented and not wishing to press his point, he withdrew and left with Scopia safely under his control, using it to gain his entry into another House.

Now, I believe all can see that the rules that were set up by the Ilios Korakas’ Charter were nothing more than a tool into Manouelitis’ hands in order to grab some lands for himself without having to fight for it…

Most of us here had to wrest our provinces from the hands of the enemy of the Empire : be they rebels, Turks or Egyptians… We have a right to claim these lands as ours… So do we want to condone the theft of the settlements our men gave their blood for ?

Now, thinking back, I hope you can see as well as I can, a pattern emerges… The same names keep coming up in trying to bring down House Ilios Korakas and myself : Arianitis and Manouelitis…

These men are somehow in league and for the worst : dealing blows under the belt, cheating and lying… They are not even trying to build something out of it… They just want to destroy, to lead personal vendettas for reasons that escape me…

Are these the kind of men that we want to rule our settlements ?

I think not and I hope the Basileos will see it my way.

After bowing once more to the Basileos, Methodios strides out to his bench.

[OverKnight]

Aleksios nods to Methodios.

Thank you Senator Tagaris, we shall see what Senator Manouelitis has to say.

[Warmaster Horus]

Nikiphoros, after listening intently to Tagaris' statement and reading the records a couple of times, stands, and bows to the Basileus.

Basileus, Caesar, Senators...

If I understand correctly, I am to first make a case for myself, after which Tagaris will rebute my statement. Finally, after all this, I will rebute Tagaris' first speech.

I will say first that the Empire has a problem. The problem of law. Law-breakers now fall under a noble category: Senators. We know the story of the Caesar, we know how Caesaria was exterminated, and we now know the Sack of Alexandria. Of the events at the Hippodrome, I will not speak, since it is not useful here.
In any case, there is a problem of law. And to solve that kind of problem temporarily, until a clear-cut solution is found, we must base ourselves on facts. This is what I will do.

Scopia was inherited by Methodios Tagaris from Kosmas Mavrozomis, who was also my sponsor (OOC: the one who adopted Nikiphoros). Tagaris went on, open the House Korakas, gain me as a vassal and to conquer Alexandria. To sack Alexandria.
The legality of such a move was contested. Unfortunately, the Caesar was planning some form of treason, and Tagaris' act was temporarily forgotten. All seemed to be well since he was "repenting", trying to help keep Cairo in order.

But there's an adage, I believe, which goes: "Pardon one offense, and you encourage the commission of many". Well, in this case the Magnaura has forgiven two acts: the Caesar's mishandling of the Order and the extermination of Caesaria. I will not suffer many offenses. The Magnaura must draw the line somewhere, and I wished to draw the line with the Sack of Alexandria.

That apparently was not to be so. Tagaris, realizing I might condemn him, released me of my Oath, and thus threw me out of the House Korakas. I was not going to suffer that. I used subterfuge, I connived, I conned and cheated my former Lord to regain membership in that House. I then used the law of Ilios Korakas to punish Tagaris.

The law of Korakas, written by Tagaris himself says two things pertaining to this case. Firstly, it mentions:

D) Members joining the House that are already in control of a province will be asked to release their hold on it to the House. The Captain-General may choose to let them keep the control over the said province. The said province is considered House property for all purposes.

Thus, we can believe that Scopia became property of House Ilios Korakas. Alexandria as well, since Tagaris conquered it sometime after opening the House.
Then:

4) Expulsion:

It will consist of the subject's lord breaking fealty with him, as well as the subject's vassals breaking fealty with the subject. Anyone who refuses to break fealty with the subject will be expelled as well.
The expelled subject will be asked to leave the House's lands and to give back any land to the House. Refusal to return lands to the House will be considered a declaration of war with the expulsed member considered the declarer. Lands returned will become the automatic property of the expulsed member's lord.
The feudal chain will re-organize itself to take into account the expulsion.

Therefore, if Tagaris were to be condemned to expulsion, the following things would have to happen:
- My Oath of Fealty would be broken,
- Scopia and Alexandria would be returned to the House.

Once back in House Korakas, I used my power to judge Tagaris. I put forth expulsion, with all that measure entails. He accepted that punishment, except for Alexandria. I decided to let him have Alexandria. Thus, another circumvention of the law; I should have ownership of Alexandria, but I do not. I will let that offense slide out of respect. Tagaris is an honorable man, and I respect honor.
However, the fact is that he agreed to being expulsed. He lost the leadership of the House and governorship of Scopia. I then closed the House Korakas, giving Tagaris the possibility to have it back. I had never wished for the responsibility that accompanies the leadership of a House.
At this point, then, Tagaris accepted his expulsion, but kept Alexandria and had the possibility of being leader of House Korakas once more. The things he lost are a Vassal and Scopia.

I tried to start anew, in House Asteri. After I swore Fealty to one of its members, Tagaris comes in and declares:

I accepted my "expulsion" from the House... This doesn't mean that I accepted you breaking your oath... The only way I could accept this would be if you returned Scopia to me, you sneaky thief...

Either that or you will suffer the consequences of your oath-breaking...

Your new oath is void.

From this, he basically asks that the punishment is cancelled. If I agreed, he'd have the House, Scopia and Alexandria. Senators, to be in that situation is not to be punished.


My claim is this: Tagaris was punished by House Korakas. Such punishment included giving his cities to the House and releasing me from my Oath. He asks for Scopia, thus refuses punishment. That is a fact.

Finally, Basileus, Caesar, Senators...
The case of Scopia is much more than that of a town. It is much more than the case of vengeance. It is a case of law, and respect of the law. Without those two, the Empire would be in chaos. Noble and Great Basileus, please remember that.

Thank you all for listening. Let us hope that this debate truly decides the ownership of Scopia."

Nikiphoros bows to the Basileus, sits, and begins to chew his nails, while waiting for Tagaris to answer.