U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

[drone]

It tends to get under my skin when things the Reps do on a much more overt or organized level somehow winds up getting blamed as a Dem issue. Such as coded hate rhetoric, voter suppression or misconduct.

Organization has always been a weakness of the Democrats.

[Crazed Rabbit]

3004th reply!

Oh, and um, go Rossi! Because I'm disheartened by McCain.

CR

[Koga No Goshi]

3000th reply!

Oh, and um, go Rossi! Because I'm disheartened by McCain.

CR

How come?

[Koga No Goshi]

I've been trying to find any news websites covering it, but this just happened and it might be awhile before something is up. Heard it on the radio and then on TV news. Apparently Obama called McCain directly and told him that if he believes that he is a terrorist, to say so to his face. And McCain has now backed down on the rhetoric issue and stopped a few people yelling hate crap in the crowd and said that Obama would make a fine President and is a decent man.

[Louis VI the Fat]

A democracy. A political rally. Members in the audience shout 'traitor' and 'kill him' to the oppossing party's candidate. And this is not followed by an immediate and unconditional call for respect? Not even afterwards either?
What's more, it seems to be, if not orchestrated, at least condoned and gleefully welcomed?

What am I watching here? Political rallies in Pakistan? Uzbekistan?

Shame. Shame on McCain. This is a bloody disgrace.


I thought McCain was the candidate who does not agree with the GOP making a mockery of everything America stands for. The Republican who does not condone torture, kidnapping, spying on citizens, mercenanies, whipping the population into a frenzy and making them believe they are in perennial war.
Really, the Republican party has sinister, proto-fascist tendencies. Unbelievable, this.


Edit: Ah, just read Koga's post above. Good for McCain.

[PanzerJaeger]

Calm down Louis. Lemur is simply copy/pasting the latest leftist narrative despite the McCain campaign's consistent disapproval of these racist nuts.

John McCain incites racism and hatred...

[Lemur]

Looks like McCain is finally taking steps, which is very good news. Not popular with true believers, however.

Indeed, he just snatched the microphone out the hands of a woman who began her question with, "I'm scared of Barack Obama... he's an Arab terrorist..."

"No, no ma'am," he interrupted. "He's a decent family man with whom I happen to have some disagreements."

PJ's comments are, as usual, below the partisan noise threshold.

[Louis VI the Fat]

Calm down Louis.

Yes, yes, I know. Got carried away there.

Even Hillary - back in the day - covertly but gleefully welcomed her supporters spreading hate speech about Obama.
The correct answer to this is given by McCain in your video: incitement to hatred is not acceptable in a democracy.

[PanzerJaeger]

Yes, yes, I know. Got carried away there.

Even Hillary - back in the day - covertly but gleefully welcomed her supporters spreading hate speech about Obama.
The correct answer to this is given by McCain in your video: incitement to hatred is not acceptable in a democracy.

The truly sad thing for McCain is that the Lemurites of the world will have no qualms about sliming him for inciting racism – even invoking the assassination of MLK () – when in reality the questions over Ayers and Obama’s other dubious connections have always centered on his judgment. An entire story has been created over a few rabid supporters, while no one deigns the invective pointed towards Bush at Obama rallies newsworthy. I can guarantee you that the President has definitely been refered to as a terrorist more than a few times in such environments.

A more objective story would be headlined: "People Shout Crazy Things at Political Rallies - more at 10!"

[Xiahou]

Calm down Louis. Lemur is simply copy/pasting the latest leftist narrative despite the McCain campaign's consistent disapproval of these racist nuts.

John McCain incites racism and hatred...

There was what? One alleged incidence of "kill him"? That's easily trackable since the Secret Service has to investigate anything even remotely suggesting assassination. Here's a Secret Service spokesman on the subject:

“We take every threat very seriously. Every time we receive or are reported information like that, we follow up,” said Secret Service spokesman Ed Donovan.

However, he cautioned that at the McCain rally, “no Secret Service agent overheard any threatening statement and no threatening statements were reported by law enforcement or the general public.”

“We did make some inquiries after the Washington Post reported on Tuesday that a someone had yelled ’kill him’,” he added.

Apparently, this is all based on a single WaPo account. More responsible reporting.

You'd think I'm past being surprised by it now, but it still gets me on occasion to see how thoroughly in the tank much of the news media is for Obama.....

[m52nickerson]

Looks like McCain is finally taking steps, which is very good news. Not popular with true believers, however.

Indeed, he just snatched the microphone out the hands of a woman who began her question with, "I'm scared of Barack Obama... he's an Arab terrorist..."

"No, no ma'am," he interrupted. "He's a decent family man with whom I happen to have some disagreements."

PJ's comments are, as usual, below the partisan noise threshold.

I'm glad McCain knows when enough is enough. I would have liked to see the look on the woman's face.

[Louis VI the Fat]

A more objective story would be headlined: "People Shout Crazy Things at Political Rallies - more at 10!"

There was what? One alleged incidence of "kill him"?

Then again, if this was all a non-story, McCain wouldn't have felt the need to clamp down on it today.

[Xiahou]

Then again, if this was all a non-story, McCain wouldn't have felt the need to clamp down on it today.

Two points:
1) You must not know McCain very well.
2) Overblown or not, it's been all over the news and he's been getting blame for not doing anything to stop it. News and especially blogs would have you thinking every McCain rally is only a couple steps short of a lynch mob. McCain had to go on record as doing something to calm people down.

Also, hyperbolic, red faced charges of "traitor", "coward", "murderer" and so on aren't really new to this election cycle and can be found coming from both sides. I would expect McCain, from what I know of him, to speak up against things like that at his rallies though. His problem is that when you compare that to the ads that his campaign is running, he seems almost schizophrenic....

[Koga No Goshi]

I love it.

Footage, as we speak, on the news, of McCain appearing at a rally, and getting universal boo's when saying things like "Obama is a decent man", and a woman getting up and saying "We can't trust him because he's an Arab", and the audience silent when McCain says "No, no." And a guy saying he's very afraid of an Obama Presidency, and the crowd booing when McCain says there is no reason to be afraid of Obama.

Yet, we are just imagining things. The race-baiting and hate vitriol is all just one exaggerated, possibly biased article from Washington Post. These are people you guys vote with. And you try to backpedal and say no no, Republicans aren't like that, this is just leftie papers trying to make us look bad.

Not to mention the ad campaign implying Obama is a terrorist... do any of you guys really believe that? Or are you just sticking up for it because it helps your side?

You make yourselves look bad. You need no help from biased coverage.

[PanzerJaeger]

These are people you guys vote with.

Would you like some examples of the people you vote with?

Judging supporters by the lowest common denominator makes both sides look bad.

[Gregoshi]

Judging supporters by the lowest common denominator makes both sides look bad.

Divided we fall.

[Koga No Goshi]

Would you like some examples of the people you vote with?

Judging supporters by the lowest common denominator makes both sides look bad.

The lowest common denominator is your base. Sure, go to downtown San Fran or Eugene Oregon and dig up some left wing crazies. You can go almost ANYWHERE in a red state to dig up this kind of b.s. that we're seeing on the news from Republican crowds. The rally where people were saying they were afraid of Obama or that he's an Arab who can't be trusted was in MINNESOTA. Not exactly rural Arkansas.

But yes, I know, race-baiting and letting the campaign get this bad-- in fact, ENCOURAGING it with Palin accusing Obama of palling around with terrorists and an ad campaign saying the same thing, and only backing down when called out.... we're just talking about some fringe here. Naturally.

[Lemur]

You know who else is in the tank for Obama? General David Petraeus.

Petraeus also came out unambiguously in his talk at Heritage for opening communications with America’s adversaries, a position McCain is attacking Obama for endorsing. Citing his Iraq experience, Petraeus said, “You have to talk to enemies.” He added that it was necessary to have a particular goal for discussion and to perform advance work to understand the motivations of his interlocutors.

[Big_John]

do any of you guys really believe that? Or are you just sticking up for it because it helps your side?

haven't been in the backroom long, i take it?

[Spino]

You know who else is in the tank for Obama? General David Petraeus.

Petraeus also came out unambiguously in his talk at Heritage for opening communications with America’s adversaries, a position McCain is attacking Obama for endorsing. Citing his Iraq experience, Petraeus said, “You have to talk to enemies.” He added that it was necessary to have a particular goal for discussion and to perform advance work to understand the motivations of his interlocutors.

That article is spinning the BS like a top and you know it. McCain never said he would refuse to communicate with Iran or similar states. He said he would never use the Presidency to validate factions or states that sponsor terrorism and openly threaten the destruction of our allies by sitting down to deal with them directly. That was in direct response to Obama's statement that he would sit down with Ahmadinejad and 'work it out' or something to that extent. McCain said that having an ambassador, Secretary of State or general to do the talking for you was perfectly acceptable. He also mentioned that in dealing with states like Iran it was preferable to resort to communications via 'back channel' methods than that of the official variety.

[Askthepizzaguy]

The Cassus Belli for the Second Civil War of the United States of America (unlikely though it may be...)


My predection of the election result: What will really happen, or close to it

And finally, Yahoo's current polling data

[Lemur]

That was in direct response to Obama's statement that he would sit down with Ahmadinejad and 'work it out' or something to that extent.

Having trouble finding the place where Obama said he would "use the Presidency to validate factions or states that sponsor terrorism and openly threaten the destruction of our allies"? Who's spinning like a top now?

[m52nickerson]

The report from Alaska is in:

Palin abused power in trooper case!

[Lemur]

The Anchorage Daily News coverage is much more in-depth. Lots of sub-links to original documents and such stuff.

Finding Number One

For the reasons explained in section IV of this report, I find that Governor Sarah Palin abused her power by violating Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) of the Alaska Executive Branch Ethics Act. Alaska Statute 39.52.110(a) provides The legislature reaffirms that each public officer holds office as a public trust, and any effort to benefit a personal or financial interest through official action is a violation of that trust.

Finding Number Two

I find that, although Walt Monegan's refusal to fire Trooper Michael Wooten was not the sole reason he was fired by Governor Sarah Palin, it was likely a contributing factor to his termination as Commissioner of Public Safety. In spite of that, Governor Palin's firing of Commissioner Monegan was a proper and lawful exercise of her constitutional and statutory authority to hire and fire executive branch department heads.

Finding Number Three

Harbor Adjustment Service of Anchorage, and its owner Ms. Murleen Wilkes, handled Trooper Michael Wooten's workers' compensation claim property and in the normal course of business like any other claim processed by Harbor Adjustment Service and Ms. Wilkes. Further, Trooper Wooten received all the workers' compensation benefits to which he was entitled.

Finding Number Four

The Attorney General's office has failed to substantially comply with my August 6, 2008 written request to Governor Sarah Palin for information about the case in the form of emails.

[Crazed Rabbit]

McCain's actions, shutting up the haters, have gladdened me. He'll get no sympathy from the press, even if Obama started selling the journalists following him into slavery and using the proceeds to build orphan labor sweatshops.

I think it marks a return to McCain's decency that he seems to have lost recently. He did good.

...

Spino does a good job of shutting down Lemur's silly post.

Not to mention the ad campaign implying Obama is a terrorist... do any of you guys really believe that? Or are you just sticking up for it because it helps your side?

Do we believe the straw man you made up? Hmmm, no.

The lowest common denominator is your base. Sure, go to downtown San Fran or Eugene Oregon and dig up some left wing crazies.

Or any college, or any big city, or Bellingham, WA, or Madison, etc., etc.

You can go almost ANYWHERE in a red state to dig up this kind of b.s. that we're seeing on the news from Republican crowds. The rally where people were saying they were afraid of Obama or that he's an Arab who can't be trusted was in MINNESOTA. Not exactly rural Arkansas.

Aw, you're such a darling, lapping up what the media presents.

CR

[Lemur]

I take it you're got first hand visual confirmation.

In fairness, CR, PJ trolls me regularly and with intent. I think he rather enjoys it as a game. Best thing to do with trolls is not to feed them.

I'm happy to engage in back-and-forth with you, Spino, TuffStuff, Xiahou, and any of our host of colorful characters and Backroom Patrons. But I ain't gonna feed a troll.

And frankly, you ought to be embarrassed to have him on your side. But shame is perhaps a slow flower to bloom, eh?

As for Spino "shutting down" my silly post, I think he did no such thing. You have to accept, at face value, that Obama intends to waltz personally into Teheran and beg for an audience with Imadinnerjacket, something he has never claimed he was going to do, and you have to accept that McCain has never mischaracterized what Obama said. So I guess if you're utterly and completely following the Johnny Mac version of reality, then yeah, whoah, I sure took a spanking there. But if you're interested in any sort of reality, I did not.

[Askthepizzaguy]

@ m52nickerson-

I saw the news story. An abuse of power by an elected member of our government? Not entirely earth-shattering.

Of more interest to me is Palin's inability to discuss anything besides drilling for more oil, and almost, nearly, but not quite, staying on message when supporting McCain's Iraq policies. Of particular interest is her mortal fear of any newsperson or pundit outside of Sean Hannity, without McCain by her side pulling her strings. She doesn't even know what the Bush doctrine is, nor can she muddle through a sentence regarding the bailout.

Frankly, an abuse of power allegation is actually points in her favor... she's competent enough to be a criminal. That's at least something. Competence is not a quality I would have associated with Palin before the story broke. Then again, she got caught really easily, and at the most inoppurtune time... so yet again, points against her.

[Spino]

Having trouble finding the place where Obama said he would "use the Presidency to validate factions or states that sponsor terrorism and openly threaten the destruction of our allies"? Who's spinning like a top now?

No spin. Re-read my post. I gave you McCain's reasoning for why he wouldn't use the office of the Presidency to validate those states. A position shared by... Hillary Clinton!

Here you go... straight from Barack's own mouth!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1dSPrb5w_k

I rather prefer Hillary's answer... don't you?

From Barack's web page!

http://origin.barackobama.com/issues/foreign_policy/

Diplomacy: Obama supports tough, direct presidential diplomacy with Iran without preconditions. Now is the time to pressure Iran directly to change their troubling behavior. Obama and Biden would offer the Iranian regime a choice. If Iran abandons its nuclear program and support for terrorism, we will offer incentives like membership in the World Trade Organization, economic investments, and a move toward normal diplomatic relations. If Iran continues its troubling behavior, we will step up our economic pressure and political isolation. Seeking this kind of comprehensive settlement with Iran is our best way to make progress.

Direct presidential diplomacy... What a nice, carefully worded phrase! It's awfully hard to spin it as anything but diplomacy involving the President himself. Were it to say... 'direct diplomacy' it might get a pass. But since Barack already flapped his gums about it on the debate...

Oh, and I love how he'll use the stick and carrot routine to get Iran to abandon it's WMD program. Because that tactic worked so well when employed by the Clinton & Bush administrations (see N. Korea).

McCain's official position...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYQ6P5SViVs

[m52nickerson]

@ m52nickerson-

I saw the news story. An abuse of power by an elected member of our government? Not entirely earth-shattering.

Of more interest to me is Palin's inability to discuss anything besides drilling for more oil, and almost, nearly, but not quite, staying on message when supporting McCain's Iraq policies. Of particular interest is her mortal fear of any newsperson or pundit outside of Sean Hannity, without McCain by her side pulling her strings. She doesn't even know what the Bush doctrine is, nor can she muddle through a sentence regarding the bailout.

Frankly, an abuse of power allegation is actually points in her favor... she's competent enough to be a criminal. That's at least something. Competence is not a quality I would have associated with Palin before the story broke. Then again, she got caught really easily, and at the most inoppurtune time... so yet again, points against her.

That is why it is so important, the timing. Plus McCain and his crew should have seen this coming while vetting her.

Overall, not good for the McCain/Palin ticket.

[Lemur]

Direct presidential diplomacy... What a nice, carefully worded phrase! It's awfully hard to spin it as anything but diplomacy involving the President himself. Were it to say... 'direct diplomacy' it might get a pass. But since Barack already flapped his gums about it on the debate...

Yup, I guess Barack is a traitor in the model of Richard Nixion going to China, Ronald Reagan talking to Gorbachev, etc. Talking to your enemies -- what kinda nut does that?

Did Richard Nixon "validate" China, as you put it? DId Rinald Reagan "validate" Gorbachev? What kind of middle-school reality do you need to be in to believe that talking to someone "validates" them?

Your original post hinges on this whole concept of "validating," something which is entirely unclear and frankly weird. So yeah, I think there's some spin going on, friend.