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Thread: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

  1. #3031
    Arena Senior Member Crazed Rabbit's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    In fairness, CR, PJ trolls me regularly and with intent. I think he rather enjoys it as a game. Best thing to do with trolls is not to feed them.

    I'm happy to engage in back-and-forth with you, Spino, TuffStuff, Xiahou, and any of our host of colorful characters and Backroom Patrons. But I ain't gonna feed a troll.
    Fair enough. I can't argue with that. Disregard my prior comment.

    And frankly, you ought to be embarrassed to have him on your side. But shame is perhaps a slow flower to bloom, eh?
    Do I need to say in every post I don't like racists and fascists?

    As for Spino "shutting down" my silly post, I think he did no such thing. You have to accept, at face value, that Obama intends to waltz personally into Teheran and beg for an audience with Imadinnerjacket, something he has never claimed he was going to do, and you have to accept that McCain has never mischaracterized what Obama said. So I guess if you're utterly and completely following the Johnny Mac version of reality, then yeah, whoah, I sure took a spanking there. But if you're interested in any sort of reality, I did not.
    Obama said he'd sit down with no preconditions. I believe he's changed his position on that, something McCain hasn't really represented in what I saw in the last debate. McCain has said we need to talk, but not a presidential level talk at first. That seems to be similar to what Petraeus has been saying, so I think you saying he's in the tank for Obama, hyperbole I know, is not correct even when reduced. McCain is not attacking Obama for merely wanting to open lines of communication - which the article stated. He's attacking based on Obama's really old debate answer that he'd sit down without precondition.

    On the Troopergate thing:
    ()@$&@)@($&@#$()&@$*&(@)#!@)$^@$_*@#@&)$(*&@$@{

    McCain's really screwed now.

    I noticed this one comment on the ADN website:
    In reading the Branchflower report, I see that he concentrates on the Wooten affair and pretty much glosses over any detail of the other major factors that led to Monegan's reassignment. If his job was to determine if the Monegan reassignment was legitimate or if it was revenge for failing to fire Wooten, I believe Branchflower has failed to do an unbiased job.

    I expected to find lengthy discussions of the "reasons" for Monegan's reassignment. This should be all of the reasons, so that the various reasons could be weighed to determine how much the Wooten affair influenced the reassignment.

    Branchflower's report does not discuss and evaluate any of the reasons beyond the Wooten affair. This makes me consider the Branchflower report to be highly biased toward finding the Governor in violation of ethics statutes.
    And can only hope it's true, but even if it is McCain's screwed anyways.

    CR
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  2. #3032
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    @ m52nickerson-

    Yes, the timing is unfortunate. But look at the polls... the way this is going, Obama would really have to stand up in front of the American people and start screaming filthy words at the top of his lungs, while McCain suddenly formulates an Iraq exit strategy and a sane economic plan, before Obama would lose the election.

    I'm waiting for the October Surprise. I am guessing the best they can do is start playing those Reverend Wright clips over and over again while chanting "Obama is a terrorist! KILL HIM!" in order to sway the rightest of the right-wing lunatics, or at least, the most susceptible to suggestion, to vote McCain.

    The only thing that would be good for the McCain-Palin ticket is for Palin to be at the top of the ticket. Palin-McCain would at the very least get some of the less rational women around the country to vote for Palin as President, for the sole purpose of having the first woman president. Of course, I may just be offering this suggestion because I want the R's to lose this year.

    When McCain has lost Virginia and North Carolina, they really need to rethink their strategy.
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  3. #3033
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    As for Spino "shutting down" my silly post, I think he did no such thing. You have to accept, at face value, that Obama intends to waltz personally into Teheran and beg for an audience with Imadinnerjacket, something he has never claimed he was going to do, and you have to accept that McCain has never mischaracterized what Obama said. So I guess if you're utterly and completely following the Johnny Mac version of reality, then yeah, whoah, I sure took a spanking there. But if you're interested in any sort of reality, I did not.
    Did you forget the Youtube debate?

    Here's some analysis from the right-wing hacks at the Nation: An Obama Flub at the YouTube Debate?
    Obama had suggested he would sit down with these leaders willy-nilly, no preconditions. Clinton and Edwards explained that that they would use diplomacy to try to improve relations with these nations and that such an effort could lead to a one-on-one with these heads of state.
    Further, here is the direct quote for those that don't want to watch the video clip:
    Q: Would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration -- in Washington or anywhere else -- with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?

    A: I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them -- which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration -- is ridiculous. Now, Ronald Reagan and Democratic presidents like JFK constantly spoke to Soviet Union at a time when Ronald Reagan called them an evil empire. And the reason is because they understood that we may not trust them and they may pose an extraordinary danger to this country, but we had the obligation to find areas where we can potentially move forward.

    The way Hillary pounced on that question and gave a much more sensible answer to it is a good example of why I think she would've been a far better president than Obama.

    Edit: Damn, Spino beat me to it by a longshot.
    Last edited by Xiahou; 10-11-2008 at 03:20.
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  4. #3034
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    And frankly, you ought to be embarrassed to have him on your side.
    frankly, this forum, and its moderators, ought to be embarrassed that he's allowed to post his garbage here.
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  5. #3035
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    I'd be willing to cede that Obama misspoke, or changed his position, or even deliberately and intentionally said that he would in fact meet with the leaders of Iran, Syria, and every other two-bit thug personally in the white house.

    I'd cede that entire point to the opposing side, and then say, what's your point? How many years of not speaking to Castro have we endured, and how have the Cuban people fared? How many years of not talking to Iran and North Korea have we endured, and how has that helped at all?

    I wouldn't back down, I'd stand up and applaud. I'd love to have Mahmoud Ahmadinejad over to the White House for tea. That's where I'd have secret service assassinate him after diplomacy failed.




    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20081010/ts_nm/us_bush_cuba

    "It's so sad that right off the shores of our great nation that believes in human rights and human dignity exists this, this dungeon," Bush said.
    Perhaps he is thinking about closing Guantanamo Bay? Dare I hope?

    "But some day Cuba will be free."
    President George W. Bush: Where hope goes to die.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 10-11-2008 at 03:29.
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  6. #3036
    Part-Time Polemic Senior Member ICantSpellDawg's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_John View Post
    frankly, this forum, and its moderators, ought to be embarrassed that he's allowed to post his garbage here.
    Take it easy. All of this filibuster is because he is saying that Obama isn't in any worse danger of assassination than Bush has been - or that MLK was an accused (and seemingly likely) adulterer? I don't see that as overt racism. Lay off the guy.

    I would also recommend that Panzer self-censors if there is the possibility that he is painting with too broad a brush.

    Jeez.
    Last edited by ICantSpellDawg; 10-11-2008 at 03:34.
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  7. #3037
    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    Yup, I guess Barack is a traitor in the model of Richard Nixion going to China, Ronald Reagan talking to Gorbachev, etc. Talking to your enemies -- what kinda nut does that?

    Did Richard Nixon "validate" China, as you put it? DId Rinald Reagan "validate" Gorbachev? What kind of middle-school reality do you need to be in to believe that talking to someone "validates" them?

    Your original post hinges on this whole concept of "validating," something which is entirely unclear and frankly weird. So yeah, I think there's some spin going on, friend.
    Because talking directly with a regime that openly froths at the mouth about annihilating its regional neighbors & dehumanizes a specific ethnic group has the unfortunate side effect of 'validating' it. It's about setting a bar... any bar of official civility & statesmanship that both parties are expected to meet. So having Iran officially retract its threats to annihilate Israel as well as having its leaders & mullahs officially cease the dehumanizing and racist tirade against Jews and other targeted groups is a good place to start.

    To my knowledge during the Vietnam War China never openly called for the annihilation of the US and our allies nor did its leaders dehumanize or target a specific ethnic group (although Mao had his own 'colorful' views of the Vietnamese which he never shared with the world). Nixon going to China was a clever way of exploiting the long history of animosity between China & Vietnam and it helped to drive a diplomatic rift between the Soviet Union & China which, despite their Communist ties, have had a long history of territorial disputes.

    The Soviet Union also never adopted the official position that it would annihilate the US or any of its allies (Kruschev's 'we will bury you' quote is often mistranslated and taken out of context, he was attacking 'inferior' western production). The Soviet Union also never dehumanized or targeted a specific ethnic group.

    True, both China and the Soviet Union were guilty of funding & supporting our enemies but at least they had the decency of doing so in a more conventional, 'civilized' fashion that we could tolerate (and readily practiced ourselves). Funding a bunch of religious fanatics that deliberately attack civilian populations by say, strapping remotely triggered bombs to retarded women who are then instructed to wander into crowded whereupon they are blown into a million pieces, simply wasn't in their playbook.
    Last edited by Spino; 10-11-2008 at 03:42.
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  8. #3038

    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    I imagine the validation effect would have to be taken into account when they were doing the cost/benefit analysis. What are the historical examples of the negative effects of such a meeting?

  9. #3039
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by TuffStuffMcGruff View Post
    Take it easy. All of this filibuster is because he is saying that Obama isn't in any worse danger of assassination than Bush has been - or that MLK was an accused (and seemingly likely) adulterer? I don't see that as overt racism. Lay off the guy.

    I would also recommend that Panzer self-censors if there is the possibility that he is painting with too broad a brush.

    Jeez.
    actually, that has nothing to do with it. i've felt this way about him for a long time. i've had him on ignore for just as long (not that it matters since ignore doesn't affect quoting). he is a racist. he is a bigot. he contributes nothing to the forums. i once thought that the org was a better forum that.
    Last edited by Big_John; 10-11-2008 at 03:44.
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  10. #3040
    Swarthylicious Member Spino's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    I imagine the validation effect would have to be taken into account when they were doing the cost/benefit analysis. What are the historical examples of the negative effects of such a meeting?
    Good point. Depends on the size of the threat. I cannot think of a negative example off hand but I can think of an example from ancient history where any kind of meaningful talks were necessary to prevent disaster. Pope Leopold simply had to go out and speak with Attila the Hun because Rome was defenseless and out of options. However troublesome a nation Iran may be it's still small change compared to the former Soviet Union & China (or the Huns for that matter). It simply doesn't make sense to be reactive to Iran by granting it official access to the leaders of the top industrialized nations who clearly have the economic, political & military advantage. It is the rest of the civilized world that should maintain the initiative and be dictating terms to Iran.
    "Why spoil the beauty of the thing with legality?" - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Though Adrian did a brilliant job of defending the great man that is Hugo Chavez, I decided to post this anyway.. - JAG (who else?)

  11. #3041
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Big_John View Post
    actually, that has nothing to do with it. i've felt this way about him for a long time. i've had him on ignore for just as long (not that it matters since ignore doesn't affect quoting). he is a racist. he is a bigot. he contributes nothing to the forums. i once thought that the org was a better forum that.
    I think this is out of line. I don't agree with broad generalizations in regards to race no matter who they come from- but I don't think lumping entire ethnic groups together and assigning views en masse is something unique to PJ.

    And as for 'nothing to contribute', I've enjoyed many of his posts in the various "economic" threads that have been popping up lately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur
    And frankly, you ought to be embarrassed to have him on your side. But shame is perhaps a slow flower to bloom, eh?
    I'll take ownership of PJs statements as soon as you take ownership of Koga's or Tribesman's. Or we can agree that people can speak for themselves and just because you occasionally agree with someone you don't need to denounce them every time they say something you don't agree with.
    Last edited by Xiahou; 10-11-2008 at 03:56.
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  12. #3042

    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Not to step in where I'm not a moderator or anything, but it seems to me the "us elections 2008" thread isn't the place to discuss whether a certain member should be allowed to post or not

  13. #3043
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou View Post
    I think this is out of line. I don't agree with broad generalizations in regards to race no matter who they come from- but I don't think lumping entire ethnic groups together and assigning views en masse is something unique to PJ.
    i never said his racism and bigotry were unique, nor that he's the only user here that shames the org and its mods, in my eyes.
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  14. #3044
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    @Spino-

    I am quite serious when I say this: I do not see how speaking to someone gives them an advantage they did not have before. Speaking to someone does provide benefits and options that are not provided to those who remain silent.

    Speaking to madmen who committed horrible crimes, who are on death row or are now deceased, allowed civilized society to learn more about the criminal or psychotic mind. Speaking to the Soviet Union resolved many crises which could have triggered a nuclear war. Speaking to a dictator to personally deliver the demands/conditions of the United States to normalize relations gives a world stage to our reasonable demands, and highlights just how psychotic the enemy is. Speaking to Iran, Syria, or North Korea shows our allies that we are not a nation that shoots first and never talks. Speaking to our enemies shows the world that we seek a peaceful solution, before a military one. I do not see how we lose. If the talks are non-productive it shows the opposition as being unreasonable. That helps us, too.

    We don't need to trust or believe a word from our enemies, or alter strategies in any way. Speaking to one's enemies is not only a form of civilized, rational response to a problem, but also a tactic in war. With great respect for your ability to debate and reason, I simply ask for an explanation as to why speaking to your enemy is always a negative, when your enemy is unreasonable.

    We have hostage negotiators speak with criminals holding civilians prisoner. We have diplomats in back door sessions resolving things that "proper" politicians cannot resolve publicly. We have doctors speak to lunatics in an insane asylum, so that we may be better prepared to handle the next psychopath. In every single case, talking does not hurt.'

    I simply am not swayed by the assertion that speaking to someone automatically legitimizes their actions. In fact, if you speak to someone the right way, you can thoroughly discredit them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xiahou View Post
    I think this is out of line. I don't agree with broad generalizations in regards to race no matter who they come from- but I don't think lumping entire ethnic groups together and assigning views en masse is something unique to PJ.

    And as for 'nothing to contribute', I've enjoyed many of his posts in the various "economic" threads that have been popping up lately.

    I'll take ownership of PJs statements as soon as you take ownership of Koga's or Tribesman's. Or we can agree that people can speak for themselves and just because you occasionally agree with someone you don't need to denounce them every time they say something you don't agree with.
    I agree with Xiahou; people speak for themselves. I don't think that just because a crazy person agrees with you on a thing, or even many things, that somehow you must apologize for their ignorance. Guilt by association is a logical fallacy.
    Last edited by Askthepizzaguy; 10-11-2008 at 04:08.
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  15. #3045
    boy of DESTINY Senior Member Big_John's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasaki Kojiro View Post
    Not to step in where I'm not a moderator or anything, but it seems to me the "us elections 2008" thread isn't the place to discuss whether a certain member should be allowed to post or not
    that's fine, spin these posts off into a thread in the watchtower. or just delete them, i've no illusions about panzer being allowed to continue posting his offal.
    now i'm here, and history is vindicated.

  16. #3046
    Member Member Koga No Goshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Crazed Rabbit View Post
    McCain's actions, shutting up the haters, have gladdened me. He'll get no sympathy from the press, even if Obama started selling the journalists following him into slavery and using the proceeds to build orphan labor sweatshops.
    What bull. The first thing out of the media's lips was that this might be a return to "honorable campaigning" and that McCain did the right thing. Rightfully so--- but we'll see if this is just him saying this, while the attack ads and Palin's rhetoric continues unchanged.

    Spino does a good job of shutting down Lemur's silly post.
    I'm yet to see Lemur make a silly post.

    Or any college, or any big city, or Bellingham, WA, or Madison, etc., etc.
    You'll get no argument from me that critical thinkers tend to not vote Republican. However if you think that finding people against the Iraq War in Bellingham and Madison constitutes an equal and proportionate opposite partisan extreme from playing up race baiting and playing to The Stupid out there in your base, you are using a pretty whacked out standard of proportion. When you can go to any blue neighborhood and find seething easily stoked hatred of white people in the same way you can do in red communities with Mexicans and blacks and Arabs, come back and we'll talk about equal loonie fringes.

    Q: Would you be willing to meet separately, without precondition, during the first year of your administration -- in Washington or anywhere else -- with the leaders of Iran, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba and North Korea, in order to bridge the gap that divides our countries?

    A: I would. And the reason is this, that the notion that somehow not talking to countries is punishment to them -- which has been the guiding diplomatic principle of this administration -- is ridiculous. Now, Ronald Reagan and Democratic presidents like JFK constantly spoke to Soviet Union at a time when Ronald Reagan called them an evil empire. And the reason is because they understood that we may not trust them and they may pose an extraordinary danger to this country, but we had the obligation to find areas where we can potentially move forward.
    OMG!!!! I can't vote for him now! No preconditions!

    Do you agree we should talk to our enemies, or no? I failed and continue to fail to see why McCain and his online supporters focus so obsessively over the preconditions thing. I don't care if Obama meets with them on Ash Wednesday and misses an episode of CSI. We should be talking to everyone, most especially regimes that might be a threat. The McCain temper tantrum over preconditions seems to have come off like a petty nitpick over procedural details and the pendulum was not swing an inch by him bringing it up and obsessing over it on both debates so far, and Palin bringing it up as well.
    Last edited by Koga No Goshi; 10-11-2008 at 04:27.
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  17. #3047
    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi View Post
    I'm yet to see Lemur make a silly post.
    That just means you haven't actually read anything I've posted. I'm silly quite often.

  18. #3048
    Member Member Koga No Goshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Lemur View Post
    That just means you haven't actually read anything I've posted. I'm silly quite often.
    Well, you're tongue-in-cheek quite a bit, but your posts typically are a link with a very minimal commentary from you. I see nothing silly about you in a political sense. When people like Panzer think you and are I like, way far out there, in a decaying orbit around a communist planet left-wing lunatics, I wonder what would happen if they ever actually met a for-real Socialist or something. Their heads would implode, I expect. :)
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  19. #3049
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Having read through the three pages of posts made today in this thread since I left for work, I almost despair.

    Let me be clear about one thing: if you name another member, and hurl an insult at him/her, your entire post - however insightful or accurate you may deem it to be - will be deleted as non-contributive, off-topic, and a personal attack. Warning points will be awarded, in accord with normal org procedure. Posting privileges in the backroom may be suspended.

    In this thread, feel free to criticise the candidates, their positions, the electoral process in general. But do not attack each other.
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  20. #3050

    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Koga No Goshi View Post

    OMG!!!! I can't vote for him now! No preconditions!

    Do you agree we should talk to our enemies, or no? I failed and continue to fail to see why McCain and his online supporters focus so obsessively over the preconditions thing. I don't care if Obama meets with them on Ash Wednesday and misses an episode of CSI. We should be talking to everyone, most especially regimes that might be a threat. The McCain temper tantrum over preconditions seems to have come off like a petty nitpick over procedural details and the pendulum was not swing an inch by him bringing it up and obsessing over it on both debates so far, and Palin bringing it up as well.
    The best way to know some one is to speak with them face to face. Let us not forget Sun Tzu:

    One who knows the enemy and knows himself will not be in danger in a hundred battles.

    One who does not know the enemy but knows himself will sometimes win, sometimes lose.

    One who does not know the enemy and does not know himself will be in danger in every battle.
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  21. #3051
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by KukriKhan View Post
    Having read through the three pages of posts made today in this thread since I left for work, I almost despair.

    Let me be clear about one thing: if you name another member, and hurl an insult at him/her, your entire post - however insightful or accurate you may deem it to be - will be deleted as non-contributive, off-topic, and a personal attack. Warning points will be awarded, in accord with normal org procedure. Posting privileges in the backroom may be suspended.

    In this thread, feel free to criticise the candidates, their positions, the electoral process in general. But do not attack each other.


    I've yet to see an instance where ad-hominem attacks ever produced anything worthwhile anyway. It's not just Org policy, it's better for your argument to leave that stuff at the door.
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  22. #3052

    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Well the panel delivered and the democrats have their October Surprise.

    There's no arguing that the Palin story is bad news - or at least the headlines it will get. If people read further, it really isn't that bad, especially if you know the backstory about the abusive ex. Most people don't read much further than the headlines though...

    I did like this little snippet from the chairman of the council..

    "I believe that these findings may help people come to a conclusion on how they should vote" in the presidential election, Elton said.
    It seems like she's got her priorties in order.
    Last edited by PanzerJaeger; 10-11-2008 at 05:31.

  23. #3053
    Member Member Koga No Goshi's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Well the panel delivered and the democrats have their October Surprise.

    There's no arguing that the Palin story is bad news - or at least the headlines it will get. If people read further, it really isn't that bad, especially if you know the backstory about the abusive ex. Most people don't read much further than the headlines though...

    I did like this little snippet from the chairman of the council..



    It seems like she's got her priorties in order.


    ps. lots of love to my biggest fan... you know who you are! <3
    Abuse of power is not a relevant issue in how citizens of a democracy should cast their vote?
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  24. #3054
    Know the dark side Member Askthepizzaguy's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    This is good news; when you have an opposition party arguing that their scandals are "not that bad", rather than why they are the better choice, you've already won the election.
    #Winstontoostrong
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    Nobody expects the Senior Member Lemur's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Interesting read from Chris Buckly, a columnist with National Review:

    My colleague, the superb and very dishy Kathleen Parker, recently wrote in National Review Online a column stating what John Cleese as Basil Fawlty would call “the bleeding obvious”: namely, that Sarah Palin is an embarrassment, and a dangerous one at that. She’s not exactly alone. New York Times columnist David Brooks, who began his career at NR, just called Governor Palin “a cancer on the Republican Party.”

    As for Kathleen, she has to date received 12,000 (quite literally) foam-at-the-mouth hate-emails. One correspondent, if that’s quite the right word, suggested that Kathleen’s mother should have aborted her and tossed the fetus into a Dumpster. There’s Socratic dialogue for you. Dear Pup once said to me sighfully after a right-winger who fancied himself a WFB protégé had said something transcendently and provocatively cretinous, “You know, I’ve spent my entire life time separating the Right from the kooks.” Well, the dear man did his best. At any rate, I don’t have the kidney at the moment for 12,000 emails saying how good it is he’s no longer alive to see his Judas of a son endorse for the presidency a covert Muslim who pals around with the Weather Underground. So, you’re reading it here first.

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    Chieftain of the Pudding Race Member Evil_Maniac From Mars's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    My view on the election has fluctuated so much over the past few months to a year that I don't even know where to begin. I started out as a staunch Obama supporter, then moved to McCain after Obama won the primary, I supported the candidacy of Sarah Palin and everything.

    Now I wouldn't vote for either of them.
    Last edited by Evil_Maniac From Mars; 10-11-2008 at 05:24.

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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaga
    Abuse of power is not a relevant issue in how citizens of a democracy should cast their vote?
    The implications this decision has on the presidential contest should not have been a relevant issue to the panel.


    Quote Originally Posted by Askthepizzaguy View Post
    This is good news; when you have an opposition party arguing that their scandals are "not that bad", rather than why they are the better choice, you've already won the election.
    That was predetermined a long time ago.

  28. #3058
    Master of Few Words Senior Member KukriKhan's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil_Maniac From Mars View Post
    My view on the election has fluctuated so much over the past few months to a year that I don't even know where to begin. I started out as a staunch Obama supporter, then moved to McCain after Obama won the primary, I supported the candidacy of Sarah Palin and everything.

    Now I wouldn't vote for either of them.
    Funny, I think you've wrapped up the dilemma for the 20% of US non-party-affiliated voters who will actually decide this election.

    Hence all the bombast you see and hear (and read).
    Be well. Do good. Keep in touch.

  29. #3059
    The very model of a modern Moderator Xiahou's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Quote Originally Posted by PanzerJaeger View Post
    Well the panel delivered and the democrats have their October Surprise.

    There's no arguing that the Palin story is bad news - or at least the headlines it will get. If people read further, it really isn't that bad, especially if you know the backstory about the abusive ex. Most people don't read much further than the headlines though...

    I did like this little snippet from the chairman of the council..



    It seems like she's got her priorties in order.


    ps. lots of love to my biggest fan... you know who you are! <3
    Hollis French- the Democrat in charge of the investigation really gave it an unbiased/unpoliticized start when he said:
    "If they had done their job they never would have picked her," said French. "Now they may have to deal with an October surprise," he said, referring to the scheduled release Oct. 31 of the committee's final report.


    Frankly, I don't understand why it's a big deal if she did push for Wooten's firing. An internal State Police investigation found that Wooten had drank beer in his patrol car, tazered his stepson, threatened to shoot Palin's father in the head, and more. She had firsthand knowledge of how unfit the man is to be on the force- why would it be wrong for her to want to know why he isn't being fired?
    Troopers eventually investigated 13 issues and found four in which Wooten violated policy or broke the law or both:

    • Wooten used a Taser on his stepson.

    • He illegally shot a moose.

    • He drank beer in his patrol car on one occasion.

    • He told others his father-in-law would "eat a ing lead bullet" if he helped his daughter get an attorney for the divorce.

    Beyond the investigation sparked by the family, trooper commanders saw cause to discipline or give written instructions to correct Wooten seven times since he joined the force, according to Grimes' letter to Wooten.
    link

    It's almost like saying if a PA state trooper punched Ed Rendell in the mouth, that it would be an abuse of power to want him fired since it involved him personally.
    Last edited by KukriKhan; 10-11-2008 at 05:33.
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  30. #3060
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: U.S. Elections 2008: General Elections -- Analysis and Commentary

    Now I'm all confused. Does this mean she is qualified to be VP?
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