Local historic names of settlements and regions

**FactionHeir** · 07-08-2008, 16:47

Hail ye scholars,

I come with a request today.

I am currently working on settlement and region names to give to my mapper with the aim of obtaining the most historic and linguistically correct settlement and region names.

This means that settlement names (not always region names) must be in the language of the tribe/nation that held them at any point during the 1050-1450 era with preference given to older variants. While these have certainly changed hands over time, I am still most interested in what it was called in the language that was used then.

The list of what I got at the moment is far from perfect and I was hoping that with so many historians from so many different countries, maybe it can be drastically improved

Coordinates are just from the map I got them on at the moment, nothing to be really distracted by.

Iberian peninsula:

Northern Africa:

Egypt, Byzantium and the Middle East

Eastern Mediterranean

Europe

Far Eastern Europe and Russia

Central Mediterranean

Greater Britain

Thanks for any help you can offer!
Oh, and while its great to get them in the (old) local language, I do intend on keeping the special characters within reason.
If its just accents, I do want those - I actually missed out a few that I got on the actual map since I had to make this master list quickly.

**Vorian** · 07-08-2008, 19:33

Changes in bold

Egypt,Byzantium, Middle East

Spoiler Alert, click show to read:

**Evil_Maniac From Mars** · 07-08-2008, 19:47

Nürnberg's region should be changed from Northern Bavaria to Franken. Also, if you're intent on having Salzburg in the Bavaria region (though it should be in Salzburg region, probably), then Oberbayern is your best bet for region.

**FactionHeir** · 07-08-2008, 21:56

Thanks guys, keep em coming

**Rhyfelwyr** · 07-08-2008, 23:44

You added Dumbarton! Finally my town gets the representation it deserves! I wondered if I was ever going to see it in a mod. +rep if there was such a feature.

As for its naming, you could be safe with Dunbretane. Or you could go for the Gaelic Dùn Breatainn since it was underder the Canmore's in 1080. Or even the Brythonic Alcluyyd (sp?).

**FactionHeir** · 07-08-2008, 23:47

If you can figure out what it was called for the most part during that era, that'd be helpful

**Rhyfelwyr** · 07-09-2008, 10:45

Well that would be Dunbretane if you are using the timeframe of 1080-1530

**FactionHeir** · 07-09-2008, 10:52

While the game runs till 1530, I'm mainly interested in 1050-1350 (typo in my OP)

Figure you could also have a look at the other Scottish names for me?

**Evil_Maniac From Mars** · 07-09-2008, 15:43

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Metz
~~Lorraine~~ Lothringen
217 234

Mainz
Franconia
241 249

Changes in bold. Lorraine should probably be in the German spelling, as it wasn't (to the best of my knowledge) under French sovereignty until the 1700s.

Franconia (Franken) is a region in Bavaria, so Mainz should probably be in Rheinland - but I'm not sure on this one.

**Rhyfelwyr** · 07-09-2008, 15:53

Inbhir Nis
Highlands
172 323

Dunbretane
Strathclyde
165 312

Edinburgh
Lothian
174 313

I'm not sure what to change the Highlands to. You could use Moray, Atholl, or Alba. While Alba could imply all of Scotland, it is more appropriate for the Gaelic north, so that is your best option IMO. The other options are really names from smaller geographics areas that don't cover the whole region.

**sephirothno12000** · 07-09-2008, 17:03

I know the natives used pronounce Königsberg as "Königsbarg" in Preußen. However, even then..."officially" it was still Königsberg

**Knight of the Rose** · 07-10-2008, 14:01

I can only really make a bid on two:

Arhus - The oldest form of the towns name is Arosei (ca. 1050) but changes alot as there weren't many people around writing it down. Aars or Arhusa would both do I think.
Denmark - Well, in medieval times there weren't really a "place" called Denmark. I'd say Jutland here.
244 296 - Go figure

Kobenhavn - Called Hafn until 1167 where a source mentions "Portus Mercatorum", Købmænds Hafn, later turning into København or Kobenhavn. I think Kopenhagen is fitting for the later period, and no-one but esoteric historians will connect Hafn with Copenhagen
Skania - Depends on the map. Zeeland (the island next to present-day sweden) and the south of present-day sweden would be called Skania. If it's only the Island, I'd rename it to Zeeland, or Sjaelland if you want the native spelling. I do not know when the southern part of sweden became known as Skania (Skåne) as opposed to Zeeland, but I imagine it would be in the last part of the period covered, if at all.
256 288. Yea yea

/KotR

**Innocentius** · 07-10-2008, 14:47

Changes in bold.

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Kobenhavn
Sjaelland
256 288

(Warberg
Halland
259 302)

Calmar
Småland
280 303

Wisby
Gotland
290 308

Uppsala
Svealand
289 327

Skara
Västra Götaland
257 315

When King Magnus Eriksson bought Skåne in 1332, the land was mentioned as Scania Terrae (Skåneland), and Halland and Blekinge were included in that term. These lands were regarded the eastern half of the Danish kingdom, and no real distinction was made between the three provinces (Warberg didn't become a major town until the late medieval period, by the way). Lund, the seat of the archdiocese, would have been the head locality of Skåne. I think the most accurate way to depict this would be to bunch Halland and Skåne (and Blekinge) together as either Scania Terrae or the more Scandinavian Skåneland.

Kalmar (spelled with C during the middle ages) was, and is, located in Småland. Linköping, the seat of the diocese, was the main locailty in Östergötland (more accurately Östra Götaland). Likewise, Visby was spelled with a W early on. (Västra Götaland is essentially the same as Västergötland, although the former is an older form of the name.)

I take it that the game is supposed the start in about 1050, which makes the inclusion of Copenhagen rather dubious, even more so as Stockholm is not included. Neither of them could be called towns by 1050.

Also, perhaps Sigtuna should replace Uppsala, if the game is to start in 1050. By that year, Sigtuna was the by far largest town in what was to become Sweden, rivalled only by Skara (and Lund in then-Denmark), while Uppsala was little more than a sacrificial shrine to the north. So, if the game is to start in 1050, the map of modern-day Sweden should look something like this (from North to South):

Sigtuna
Svealand

Skara
Västra Götaland

Linköping
Östra Götaland

Wisby
Gotland

Neither of these were much more than villages however, and towns such as Kalmar, Uppsala and Stockholm only appeared during the 12th century.

Originally Posted by Knight of the Rose

Kobenhavn - Called Hafn until 1167 where a source mentions "Portus Mercatorum", Købmænds Hafn, later turning into København or Kobenhavn. I think Kopenhagen is fitting for the later period, and no-one but esoteric historians will connect Hafn with Copenhagen
Skania - Depends on the map. Zeeland (the island next to present-day sweden) and the south of present-day sweden would be called Skania. If it's only the Island, I'd rename it to Zeeland, or Sjaelland if you want the native spelling. I do not know when the southern part of sweden became known as Skania (Skåne) as opposed to Zeeland, but I imagine it would be in the last part of the period covered, if at all.
256 288. Yea yea

You're right in what you say about the name of present day Copenhagen, which would be located on Sjaelland, and not in Scania (Lund was the main town in Scania, as well as the seat of an archdiocese, as mentioned above).

Edit:

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Turku
Finland
316 330

Perhaps Finland should be renamed Egentliga Finland (Proper Finland), as this was the name given to the coastal lands of Finland, controlled by the kings of Sweden, wehereas Finland was a much more vague term, refering to a land controlled and contested by Swedes, Russians, Finns and Sapmi people. As above, Turku didn't exist by 1050 though.

Beyond Proper Finland lay Tavastland, with Tavastehus as its main locality (again, only later during the middle ages), and further east; Karelen and Ladoga Karelen, where Viborg/Viipuri, Kexholm and Nöteborg all played major parts in the Swedish-Russian conflicts in the area.

**Tribesman** · 07-10-2008, 15:41

The fort of the Fergals on the stony river under the domain of the Flahertys of the plain .

**FactionHeir** · 07-10-2008, 19:45

Thanks guys for the major update of the HRE and Scandinavian names

The game starts 1080, but I figure going all the way back to 1050 was justified as names that came into being later (say 1070) may not have been that oft used if that makes any sense - people would still use the older name at times possibly. That of course I cannot back up historically but that is what I was thinking when I said it

That said, settlement sizes go all the way down to Village (400 inhabitants), so that's how some of the settlements will be starting out as. But of course if you have a better suggestion for places that were of greater importance in the vincinity of a lesser settlement (historically speaking during that period as opposed to now), I would be very willing to include that instead.

So I am open to suggestions about settlements to take Warberg and Uppsala's places for instance if you will provide them.

**Innocentius** · 07-11-2008, 00:27

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Thanks guys for the major update of the HRE and Scandinavian names

The game starts 1080, but I figure going all the way back to 1050 was justified as names that came into being later (say 1070) may not have been that oft used if that makes any sense - people would still use the older name at times possibly. That of course I cannot back up historically but that is what I was thinking when I said it

That said, settlement sizes go all the way down to Village (400 inhabitants), so that's how some of the settlements will be starting out as. But of course if you have a better suggestion for places that were of greater importance in the vincinity of a lesser settlement (historically speaking during that period as opposed to now), I would be very willing to include that instead.

So I am open to suggestions about settlements to take Warberg and Uppsala's places for instance if you will provide them.

Ah! I somehow managed to forget about Lödöse, on Göta älv in Bohuslän (western Sweden/Swedish west coast), a must to include as this was probably the most important town in Skagerak at the time. Along Skara, it was the major locality in Västra Götaland at the time and up until the 14th century.

I'd actually cut Halland as a province since it was included in Skåneland and of no particular importance when compared to the more fertile lands in Skåne, and make Lund the common provincial town for Halland, Skåne and Blekinge. If you still need a town on the Swedish west coast, use Lödöse (Västra Götaland could be divided into two separate provinces, one more coastal and another, much larger, comprising the inlands). To replace Uppsala, I'd suggest Sigtuna, although I would add Stockholm for both gameplay as well as historical purposes (several other towns included in the game were certainly villages or even non-existant by 1080). Of course, that might make that part of the map too cramped, and nothing gives Sigtuna couldn't have grown to have become much larger than it did.

**r-marci** · 09-08-2008, 02:02

Originally Posted by FactionHeir

Hail ye scholars,

Pécs
Transdanubia
294 197

Gyulafehérvár
Transylvania
339 203

Buda
Hungary
297 218

Pécs was more important than Szigetvár. Pécs was a see from 1009, but Szigetvár became town only in the 15th century.

Gyulafehérvár was the seat of Transylvania (Hungarian: Erdőelve) in the Middle Ages. Bran (Hungarian: Törcsvár; German: Türzdorf) was built by the Teuton Order between 1211 and 1215. In the beginning, there was just a castle to defend the southern border of Transylvania.

Budapest didn't exist in the Middle Ages. It was established with joining of Pest, Buda and Óbuda in 1873. In big part of the Middle Ages, Hungary hasn't constant capital, but Buda became durably that in the 14th century.

**Fragony** · 09-13-2008, 18:24

If you have a more specific request I am glad to help out, got them mapped till the french revolution.

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