OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

[AussieGiant]

Whatever we do, lets not make any more rules about it.

[Andres]

Whatever we do, lets not make any more rules about it.

I like it as it is. The more freedom, the better. It allows for arrangements, agreements, treaties, conventions between Houses and Senators, spiced up with the occasional backstabbing, word breaking, lying, and disputes about interpretation of what has been agreed

[AussieGiant]

I like it as it is. The more freedom, the better. It allows for arrangements, agreements, treaties, conventions between Houses and Senators, spiced up with the occasional backstabbing, word breaking, lying, and disputes about interpretation of what has been agreed

Exactly.

Consult our resident lawyer for any advise if there are concerns.

[Privateerkev]

I see a re-vote as an exstension of a normal senate session. Therefore, I think it would be really unfair to let influence change place between a voting session and a re-voting session. I stayed quiet when we let Motep join after the session started. But if we let influence change between a vote and a re-vote, I will call "shenanigans."

As for "Houses" those are just made up entities and they can be what ever we want. The rules are based on "Feudal Chains", not Houses. A Chain can be called anything. You can call your chain a house, knightly order, politburo, ect... Therefore, a "house" is a made up construct and can be anything at all. It could be seperate chains, one member from each chain, the whole empire, anything.

*edit*

I realized the first part could sound harsh so I add this smiley for your viewing pleasure.

[AussieGiant]

There should be no change in influence for the second vote in my view.

[AussieGiant]

God I would just love to be able to say something in the Magnaura right now!!!

[Privateerkev]

I remember OK saying something similar when Matt was stuck in a Greek prison.

You could just use a proxy to do your talking for you. They seem to be all the rage...

[Andres]

I see a re-vote as an exstension of a normal senate session. Therefore, I think it would be really unfair to let influence change place between a voting session and a re-voting session. I stayed quiet when we let Motep join after the session started. But if we let influence change between a vote and a re-vote, I will call "shenanigans."

I disagree.

The Senate session was closed. The current "session" is just a re-opening of the Senate for debate, not an "extension" of the previous session.

a) the previous session was closed, you cannot extend what has been closed;
b) the current debates are not a senate session, since we are now no longer discussing/proposing legislation, nor is there a possibility for each senator to propose himself as candidate for Megas. These debates focus solely on the two current candidates and as such, the debates do not qualify as senate sessions.

Of course, if TinCow has a different viewpoint, I will accept that.

EDIT : additonal arguments:

3.1 –Sessions: The Senate will meet in a Normal Session every 10 turns. Out of session, there can be open debate and deliberations. Each Normal and Emergency Session consists of 3 real time days of debate, followed by 2 real time days of voting. econ21 or TinCow can change the length of individual sessions at will.

3.2 – Proposing Legislation: During each session, Senators may propose Edicts and Amendments, up to the limit allowed by their rank. Edicts and Amendments must be seconded by two other Senators before they can be put to the vote.

3.1 says that there can be debates out of session. The Protoasecretes announced that the Senate will be open for debate. I think this has to be interpreted as just that: debate.

To back up this argumentation, I invoke rule 3.2. which clearly states that "during each session, Senators may propose Edicts and Amendments". Now, the Protoasecretes clearly stated that we cannot propose Edicts/Amendments (I believe he used the word "legislation, which is the same) during these debates. Now, rule 3.1 clearly says that we are allowed to propose legislation during a Senate Session. Since we cannot propose legislation now, the current debate does not qualifiy as a Senate Session.

Since we are now not having a senate session, the new oaths and the influence changes that come with it, come into effect and will have to be considered when counting the votes in the current re-vote.

[Privateerkev]

We'll see what TC says. But if he rules that the influence can change, to say that I would be "unhappy" would be a gigantic understatement...

I see the Senate Session as still ongoing. Therefore, any influence that changes hands has to wait for the session to end. Plus, to reinforce my point, the new save has not been released. So, we're not even in the next term.

The candidates can lobby people to switch their votes. And even to get people to promise to "jump ship" after the session is over. But no influence can change hands between votes.

The way I see it, influence is "frozen" until the new save game is released. Plus, we wouldn't even have been in this position if it wasn't for Motep. I was never keen on letting a new player vote when he hadn't even sat through a whole Senate Session. But I kept quiet. But if we let influence change around, that will be too much IMHO.

[Ramses II CP]

I think the key point is that we didn't open a new Senate session, we re-opened the old one to settle business that had yet to be settled. I imagine the same thing would happen if, by some chance, an Edict passed that was discovered not to be legal after the fact. These are the exact words of the Protoasecretes:

"As this is unprecedented in the history of the entire Known World, I will re-oppen the Senate floor for debate for a 24 hour period." (Emphasis added, but corrections not made)

Also I'd like to note that I've now invited three characters to declare war on Vissa or take some civil war worthy action, and in all three cases I appear to have been declined. I genuinely worry that our ruleset has created too much stability, and eventually I may want to take Vissa a little out of character to make the declaration himself.

[deguerra]

With that I can agree

edit: also can somebody please tell me how to do tables for one's signature. I am very confused.