OOC Thread and Chatroom 2

[Ramses II CP]

Do you have reciepts for those?

As I said, I am going to do it... in fact, let me go do it now. I'll leave Theo with the ships.

[TinCow]

For the record, there will be no alterations to the game due to anyone landing any army on Cyprus. While I understand that IC the place is supposed to be guarded by Varangians, that is simply something that some of you have made up to make the plot more interesting. That army does not exist in the game, nor is there any kind of Event in progress that would allow for such an army to be created. If you do not want someone to land an army on Cyprus, it can be dealt with in two ways. First, modify the IC storyline to explain it away. Second, sail an army of your own over to Cyprus and destroy the person causing the problem.

[Ramses II CP]

So the way I see it you guys can accept that Vissa is going to burst into the Summit and present his views on things, or you can have left the island ahead of him and resumed the Summit elsewhere. Since none of it is, in any practical sense, 'real' I'm happy to let you decide which or propose other options of course, but I didn't want to get into a situation where OOC threats about guards changed what seemed like the logical IC decision.

[Ituralde]

This is quite an interesting intermingling of game mechanics and story mechanics. We can not threaten Vissa with our invisible army, while he can't really threaten our invisible avatars with his real army. Since AussieGiant is the head of the meeting I leave it to him how to deal with this situation.

I think for this to even remotely work though, both parties involved should agree on some common ground, to what parts of the story mechanics are real for the purpose of the IC involvement and what parts of the game mechanics are real for the purpose of this IC involvement.

For example I could imagine the following for bringing the story and actual savegame into concurrency: The members of the Summit just pretend like their part of the island is guarded by Varangians and that's why Vissa can't access the meeting, nor attack the avatars involved in it. Since the avatars of the members of the Summit are not on the island this is supported by the game mechanic, since Vissa has no way of attacking Ioannis or Methodios in the current situation. Also this wouldn't nullify anything AG has written as part of the story about the Summit.

Of course this still is a very interesting IC situation, where one Senator threatens the security of the peace negotiations. We can then deal with that situation IC on a common understanding in what situation our avatars are.

[AussieGiant]

This is interesting.

I think we have a choice to make.

We either agree that the IC and OOC aspects are real or not.

What I mean by that is what Ituralde said;

The Avatars are not actually there in the real game, so if we accept that they are in order to let Vissa interact and interrupt proceedings, then I would also need agreement that there is just a massive number of Varangian Guardsmen there also.

If things came to blows then we would move to an actual battle either Online or via the mechanics we are familiar with in the last game.

What I can't see plausible is Vissa landing with his army and being able to use his "real" army against "unreal" avatars, without acceptance that the "unreal" avatars have a very sizeable "unreal" security force on the island for just these reasons.

While TC has said there is going to be no change to the actual game, I can see him accepting a PvP battle being set up to simulate the "real" and "unreal" aspects of the situation.

If this can not be agreed then I can simply warp the meeting away and Vissa is therefore tragically too late to interrupt things.

How does that sound?

[TinCow]

While TC has said there is going to be no change to the actual game, I can see him accepting a PvP battle being set up to simulate the "real" and "unreal" aspects of the situation.

If both sides agree, I will allow a PvP battle in the following format:

I will determine the size and composition of the Varangian army. All avatars participating in the Summit will be considered to be on the island for the purposes of determining the results. All avatars at the Summit will have the option of joining either side or sitting out. All of these avatars will be vulnerable to death or capture if the victorious Senator decides to kill or capture them, even if they choose not to participate in the battle. Regardless of whether the Varangian army is victorious or not, it will never be manifested inside the game itself. It will only be created for the purposes of fighting the battle.

[_Tristan_]

The way I see it is that Vissa has such a large fleet that he can practically enforce an OOC/IC blockade of Nicosia. So until in game Ioannis has a fleet large enough to defeat Vissa's, he is a prisoner on that island.

Even considering that the avatars are not physically present on the island at all times, they have to come and go, somcthing which Vissa's fleet could very well prevent.

The Varangians might prevent Vissa from making a landing and threatening the avatars' life but they are powerless to break the blockade, IMHO.

Just my

[TinCow]

I would perhaps permit a siege to occur to allow both sides to summon in-game armies as reinforcements (assuming they can get them to the island). I will only allow this if both sides first agree to the terms I listed above. If they do, I will consider the siege option and if I decide to allow it, I will leave the decision as to whether to engage in it or not up to Ramses.

[Ituralde]

If both sides want to push for a PVP battle I won't mind it. Of course as a first step we should all agree that Vissa landed on the island with an army. I don't know about the others but I know that Pavlos will have some IC reaction should this occur.

Concerning your example Tristan:
The problem is that in that case our avatars would have used ships to get there. Even in the game it is possible for one ship to carry avatars to the next shore. Were those avatars physically on the island the Megas Logothetes could hire mercenaries for them to boost their numbers of Mercenary Ships to let them sail off the island or weaken Vissas fleet enough with throw-away mercenaries to make an escape.

Like I said before this isn't an easy matter and it is a combination of story and game mechanics. I think we should keep all of them in mind and not focus on the story side or the game mechanic side alone.

[TinCow]

Ituralde is correct in his comments. If the above terms are agreed to, I would allow all avatars on the island a 50% chance of fleeing the island if they do it alone and on the first turn after this situation begins. Anyone who escapes will have their avatar teleported alone to a spot along the coastline north or east of Cypress. The exact spot will be determined randomly, but it will be at a spot close to Cypress. On an IC basis, the avatars will have been smuggled out on a tiny fishing boat.

[Ramses II CP]

Vissa is on the island and spoiling for a fight of some kind, verbal or otherwise. He's just south of the castle, where he could be 'in siege' (If the Summit was in the castle) or just combing around the island.

If you guys want a PvP battle don't warn me about the hordes of Vars; I'd much rather just have it happen. The decision has already been made as far as V is concerned. Besides, we all know the real odds are the number of avatars, and the other troops are just there to slow them down.

I'll agree to almost anything to keep V from dying of old age still trying to convince the Order to make an offensive move.

[AussieGiant]

I'm a little leery about anyone outlining what is and isn't real given I've requested this event occur.

Hell I could back date a series of counter measure for just this type of action that would make all this irrelevant. And that's my perogetive given this is an "out of game" event.

Please note I don't want to do this, but I will insist on a complete 5 way agreement before anything discussed here should occur to peoples avatars.

There is certainly an opportunity to do something IC, but the simply fact is, if I date the summit in the thread as the year 1165, then it's all happening before Vissa gets to the island. This event, is at best a couple of weeks on an island with 5 avatars. Getting in and out in a year seems feasible.

When I hear from OverKnight, and Igno then we can proceed based on their thoughts, keeping in mind this will potentially slow the game down even further.

What I would like to do is get the 5 of us to agree on some parameters and then let TC create the final framework to umpire this.

Only then can we move forward with the debate in which Vissa is allowed to get involved in. We can continue negotiations right now, and I think we should, but simply hold off on Vissa getting involved until we settle this.

Thoughts?

[TinCow]

Yes, agreement by all is mandatory if this is to be dealt with in any way other than IC storytelling. I will not place someone's avatar in jeapordy against their will when that situation has not resulted from in-game movements.

[AussieGiant]

Alrighty then.

OK, Igno, get yourselves orjanised.

[ULC]

May I add something? Nikolaos is heading for Durazzo to take care of Michial. If this indeed did happen during 1165, then the Basileus's statements about Michial would look...awkward, at best, especially if Nikolaos kills Michial.

[Ituralde]

On a general note I will not take back the save until further notice, i.e: the whole Summit on Nicosia situation is resolved.

[GeneralHankerchief]

If PvP is involved I'll help out.

[OverKnight]

I'm agnostic about this whole thing. Tiv is there as a neutral party. . .so I'm not too invested. I'm cool with whatever occurs.

[AussieGiant]

I'm agnostic about this whole thing. Tiv is there as a neutral party. . .so I'm not too invested. I'm cool with whatever occurs.

Well that's overwhelming OK.

Just yanking your chain.

So Igno to go and then we can thrash something out.

[Marcus Agrippa]

Well to make it quite realisitc guys can the avaters and armies actualy travel to the island in the game turn. I'm thinking that if I wanted to distrupt the summit then I'd need to plan it and travel there. I couldn't very well just teleport. Even as a ooc summit it takes away the time involved to do this if in game moves are ignored. In history the outcome would be determined by what could really be done. So unless your settling this with courior of pigeon mail. I suggest a real journey be involved to make twists like this work.

[_Tristan_]

To make things clear, I'm all for resolving things through a PvP battle...

Either Methodios will end up with a crown upon his head or without a head...

[Ignoramus]

I don't know about a PvP battle, although I'd love to get this thing resolved. I'm actually regretting the civil war now. I declared it for mainly OOC reasons(to spice up the game), but in turn it's actually started to ruin the game for me. I've done nothing the entire Megas term. So I'm eager to get it resolved.

What would be involved in the PvP?

[TinCow]

I don't know about a PvP battle, although I'd love to get this thing resolved. I'm actually regretting the civil war now. I declared it for mainly OOC reasons(to spice up the game), but in turn it's actually started to ruin the game for me. I've done nothing the entire Megas term. So I'm eager to get it resolved.

What would be involved in the PvP?

As noted above, I would generate an army to simulate the 'Varangians' that are meant to be guarding the island. As this battle is the result of Vissa attacking his enemies, everyone who is at war with him will be placed in command of the Varangian army. Those who are not at war with Vissa can choose which army to join (if the commander of that army allows them to join) or try and flee. Fleeing will have a 50% chance of success and success will result in their avatar being teleported alone to a random spot along the mainland close close to Cypress, either to the north or east. This could be dangerous if there are people who have declared war against him in the area.

A PvP battle will then be done in accordance with Rule 5.4. As the battle takes place on an island, there is no where else to run to. The victor will be in complete control and will capture all avatars who fought against him in the battle and survived. He can execute any of these captives at will. The victor will also be allowed to capture any avatars who did not successfully flee the island, even if they didn't fight against him in the battle. He will not be allowed to execute those people unless they are at war with him, but he can keep them captive as long as he wants otherwise.

Regardless of the results, no units will ever be generated in the game to represent any survivors of the Varangian army. In contrast, Vissa's losses will be manifested in-game by disbanding units.

[deguerra]

so no three way duels on sad hill cemetary?

[Ibn-Khaldun]

This makes me think that Theo can also side with his Lord
He is on the ships and can join Vissa if necessary.

[Andres]

It would be a shame if you guys would solve all IC disputes before Savvas dies.

On the other hand, it would add to the tragedy

I'm so going to miss him

[ULC]

It would be a shame if you guys would solve all IC disputes before Savvas dies.

On the other hand, it would add to the tragedy

I'm so going to miss him

Such a waist of good men too

[AussieGiant]

Hate to disappoint you all but I'm hoping for a diplomatic resolution.

[Ramses II CP]

Theo would be welcome of course, but I figured since you had asked to retire to Aleppo that I'd leave you on the ships. I only went ahead and made my move to prevent OOC threats/considerations from changing my mind about what should be a purely IC decision.

For V there is no diplomatic resolution. He arrived at Nicosia intending to raid the Summit and confront the Emperor. If, through the magic of 'not really in game events' you guys aren't there or something else has prevented the confrontation I'm totally fine with that and I respect that desire, but if you're there... he's coming.

[Andres]

As noted above, I would generate an army to simulate the 'Varangians' that are meant to be guarding the island. As this battle is the result of Vissa attacking his enemies, everyone who is at war with him will be placed in command of the Varangian army. Those who are not at war with Vissa can choose which army to join (if the commander of that army allows them to join) or try and flee. Fleeing will have a 50% chance of success and success will result in their avatar being teleported alone to a random spot along the mainland close close to Cypress, either to the north or east. This could be dangerous if there are people who have declared war against him in the area.

A PvP battle will then be done in accordance with Rule 5.4. As the battle takes place on an island, there is no where else to run to. The victor will be in complete control and will capture all avatars who fought against him in the battle and survived. He can execute any of these captives at will. The victor will also be allowed to capture any avatars who did not successfully flee the island, even if they didn't fight against him in the battle. He will not be allowed to execute those people unless they are at war with him, but he can keep them captive as long as he wants otherwise.

Regardless of the results, no units will ever be generated in the game to represent any survivors of the Varangian army. In contrast, Vissa's losses will be manifested in-game by disbanding units.

I think this is an elegant solution.