Why Turtle

[Tollheit]

-the game is too easy, therefore you have to turtle to get at least sa bit of a challenge

[PBI]

Also, with proper blitzing one can roll up the whole map with only spear militia. Turtling is pretty much necessary if you ever want to see any of the rest of the unit roster, or the Mongols, gunpowder, the New World, most of the game in fact.

And one could argue that blitzing is essentially an exploit, since you are taking advantage of the woeful inadequacy of the AI in the face of relentless aggression.

[Sheogorath]

What PBI said.
Spear-spamming might win the game, but I happen to enjoy watching the Aztecs route in the face of concentrated musket fire. Or ram themselves into walls of pikemen. Or be run down by conquistadors.

Nothing like a bit of a native massacre to get you ready for ETW ;)

[Askthepizzaguy]

I agree... I've tried to turtle, intentionally, and I keep finding myself looking at the enemy settlements next to me and thinking... why can't I just go kill them?

I have armies. And they aren't going to attack me properly. They aren't aggressive enough or committed to my destruction.

When I see them, I think KILL KILL KILL KILL.... I can't not blitz anymore. I can't.

Must.... destroy.... everyone.

[seireikhaan]

I'm still trying to get the overall hang of the game, but I've found myself still relapsing into my old MTW grand strategy of quick blitzes followed by long periods of peace, if possible. IE- I just started a Moors game with SS 4.1, and with the original faction Heir, I conquered all the rest of Iberia with spear militia, mercs, and 3 jihads. T'was a rather nice holy warrior Sultan by the time he was laid to rest. After I essentially knocked out the Portugese(they somehow ended up taking Cork in Ireland) and the Aragonese(still haven't figured out where they are, prolly have a family member wandering around), I basically sat down, with the exception of some conquests a bit later on in Africa, taking Tunis and El Qoed, then Timbuktu and whatever that tiny, worthless village in west Africa is. Of course, not continuing my conquests into Europe seems to perhaps be coming back to bite me. As of now, its about 1255, and I'm at war with France, Hungary, England, Poland, Milan, the Papacy, Portugal, Aragon(bearing in mind those two are moot points), and the HRE, after his Holiness called for a crusade to take back Tunis from me. And of course, nearly all of Catholicism banned together to come after me, with France, Poland, England, and the HRE sending full stack armies with 5 star commanders(including a two kings and a faction Heir), armed with light men at arms and oodles of various knights. I rather do hope a one or two of the crusades make it to Tunis, I would like to test out my shiny new citadel armed with cannon towers, defended by my shiny new dismounted christian guards.

[Galain_Ironhide]

If you read it, the OP was referring to Player vs Player and in single player mode. In P v P he is absolutely right. There is no point turtling against a human player because he will just gobble you up quicker than you can say - BUT I HAVENT RECRUITED ARMOURED SWORDSMEN YET!. (Looks at Askthepizzaguys hotseat 1v1 record - what is it 8-nil or something?!)

However in the single player game I can not and will not bring myself to blitz the map, there is just no fun in it for me (but I do admire reading up on those who have done it). If I were to do that, I think my interest in the TW series would have perished some time ago. I confess to being a "single player" Turtler, I am one of those players who loves micromanagement and waiting around for the good units to become available. It can take me months (my work has a lot to do with it as well) to finish a good camaign. Thats just how I love to play the game.

Different strokes for different folks.

[Flying Pig]

Simple for me: GUNS! Shiny armoured foot knights, muskets, dragoons, cannons and ribaults are something that 30-turn campaigns cannot replace. Also, I far prefer buying and garissoning land to sending thousands of virtual men to their deaths.

Has anyone found a way of modding the military AI, besides a ton of king's purse? It would make turtling far more fun

[Askthepizzaguy]

If you read it, the OP was referring to Player vs Player and in single player mode. In P v P he is absolutely right. There is no point turtling against a human player because he will just gobble you up quicker than you can say - BUT I HAVENT RECRUITED ARMOURED SWORDSMEN YET!. (Looks at Askthepizzaguys hotseat 1v1 record - what is it 8-nil or something?!)

However in the single player game I can not and will not bring myself to blitz the map, there is just no fun in it for me (but I do admire reading up on those who have done it). If I were to do that, I think my interest in the TW series would have perished some time ago. I confess to being a "single player" Turtler, I am one of those players who loves micromanagement and waiting around for the good units to become available. It can take me months (my work has a lot to do with it as well) to finish a good camaign. Thats just how I love to play the game.

Different strokes for different folks.

It's 8-0, and thats not even counting those who abandoned their campaigns. Those should count as losses as well.

If so, that would be another loss for Ichigo, Monk, and losses for Ignoramus, Elite Ferret, and some others as well.

More like 12-0, plus a draw because I couldn't get the epic pizzaguy versus Grog (blitzmaster v blitzmaster) duel to the death working, and maybe another draw because Chaotix didn't drop on me, my computer died, and now I cant get any save files to work that werent generated by my own computer for some odd reason.

As for your points about blitzing...

I can get armoured swordsmen and stuff. When I blitz, my bank account is insane. All that pillaging, sacking, selling of useless crap. (No need for an armourer, ballista range, or stables in England, when I'm the HRE conquering everything else already)

What I do is, unless I'm doing the UBER blitzes where I'm trying for a record, I occupy the largest cities and fortresses on the map and I spend all my money there. After a crusade, I have like 8-15 generals who have 5 chivalry or better, and I ship them off to my core cities to boost them up. Especially ones who already have a significant boost from the local farming and a good population. HINT: NOT DURAZZO.

Take Rome, Take Constantinople, Take Bran, Take Palermo... turn Bologna into a fortress. Then, sack everyone and sell their stuff, and pour the profits into these areas. And send the uber chivalrous generals to govern them.

In 20 turns, I'll have the most advanced facilities the game has to offer, (still slower than an uber blitz, but wayyyy faster than a turtle or moderate speed) and I will have a vast stretch of territory as well.

Here's my issue.

I honestly cannot turtle anymore. I used to... I tried to do it again. But what's stopping me?

1. The AI will eventually betray you, so unless you share no border and are not in range of their military, the AI will invade you in pathetic fashion.

2. Unless you disband all your forces, you typically can get a pretty awesome invasion force by turn 2 or 3, and an unstoppable one by turn 10. Then you're paying all that money for a huge stack... which is magnetically attracted to every single large, bloated, underdefended idiot AI province. You cannot resist the awesome power of the laws of physics.

Here's a quote for everyone's signature line:

My armies are attracted to all stupidity in the universe, with a force equal to the product of the mass of my army multiplied by the stupidity of the population, and inversely proportional to the distance between them.

3. Because the game gives me huge armies and allows me to control them, and any human player can defeat any AI opponent even with 2:1 or 3:1 odds against you, and the AI is too stupid to rally all their forces towards my empire, I simply allow the stupidational force to attract my armies towards the fat bloated cities the AI has created by the order of highest stupidity and smallest distance.

4. Once my armies come in contact with the enemy, they are instantly destroyed. I am not sure how. Sometimes I black out and when I wake up, I am covered in blood and I have skulls all around me, and I'm always holding a plastic picnic spoon for some reason.

5. When the enemy army is obliterated, their undefended provinces become involuntarily occupied by my very large, victorious forces, who sack the province before I even consciously click the button. They seem to know my wishes.

6. I must destroy their armour and troop making facilities and ransom or exterminate their prisoners. My brain will not allow me to continue the game until I do.

7. As soon as another province is taken, the stupid people in the province are all killed or given a thorough education in warfare, and the stupidity coefficient becomes zero, and then my armies are attracted once again to the irresistable forces of stupidity around me.

So, you see, I'm not really a blitzmaster, or a bloodthirsty conqueror, or a mass murderer. It's nature itself which compels my armies forward and, through no fault of my own, they destroy everything stupid in thier path. One might say I am completely and totally innocent in all of this. I'm being painted as some insane death god, but really, I'm just issuing orders for my troops to cleanse the world of dumbness. If there are a few million casualties along the way, what's the harm in that?

And when I tell my troops to turtle, they don't listen. They report back to me how weak and vulnerable my enemy is, and how they are a mere one to two turn march away from my forces, and how few casualties I will take, and how those casualties are most likely militia, mercenary, or peasants, and they have taken a poll, and those people actually like dying. (!)

So, you see folks, I've tried very hard to be a patient, moral leader. But nature itself makes me do evil things to stupid people. I'm totally blameless in all this. Would you put a kitten on trial for chasing a yarn ball? No, of course not.

In closing, I'd just like to say how much I like kittens. The End.

[ArtistofWarfare]

If you read it, the OP was referring to Player vs Player and in single player mode. In P v P he is absolutely right. There is no point turtling against a human player because he will just gobble you up quicker than you can say - BUT I HAVENT RECRUITED ARMOURED SWORDSMEN YET!. (Looks at Askthepizzaguys hotseat 1v1 record - what is it 8-nil or something?!)

However in the single player game I can not and will not bring myself to blitz the map, there is just no fun in it for me (but I do admire reading up on those who have done it). If I were to do that, I think my interest in the TW series would have perished some time ago. I confess to being a "single player" Turtler, I am one of those players who loves micromanagement and waiting around for the good units to become available. It can take me months (my work has a lot to do with it as well) to finish a good camaign. Thats just how I love to play the game.

Different strokes for different folks.

I feel this way too...

To me, a major goal in any of my campaigns is to build a ridiculously powerful empire- not just a powerful military. Economics, technology, architecture, etc...I like to bring them all up to high standards and really dominate the world as a superpower.

As for multiplayer? I'm not convinced a blitzer would always just decimate a turtler. If the blitzer's initial blitz was repelled by the turtler, the game could turn into a "cold war" period with an arms race ...and the turtler's counter attack would be significantly more powerful than the blitzer's initial or subsequent invasions.

I doubt I would blitz in MP. I would tighten the defenses and set traps ...awaiting the inevitable invasion from a blitzer. After I withstood his initial invasion, I would start getting small bands of guerillas and mercenaries running raids into his lands as I built up the counter attack and my economy. I would imagine that if I made it past this point safely, I would be the one doing the blitzing beyond that point.

Still, it would be entirely dependent upon that initial defense. Regardless, my entire style of play in any situation is to build, build, build and play the "defend enemy invasion and then counterattack in large numbers" strategy. I just think the advantage always goes to the defender- In a single battle as well as in a large scale war.

"He who does not attack, will be attacked"- my response? Yeah...so?