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  1. #1
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    I use archers in defense, and in attack when the enemy is lacking missiles. Otherwise, I can't be bothered dealing with missile duels, they are just too wasteful and I'm just not good enough to micro mine effectively. It's so much easier to just rush the lines and send cavalry around to crush or disrupt the enemy's weak archer units. This also puts the cav is a good position to charge the rears of anything that withstands the main assault. Each enemy archer unit is just one less infantry block to deal with. I will use archers against javelin units though, they are just too nasty (but fortunately short ranged) to leave alone.

    If attacking an enemy that lacks missiles, then I try to let my archers expend all their ammo before starting the melee. Not only will this save my infantry and cav, but it also valors up my archers for better accuracy later on. High valor missile troops can be handy when 1230 rolls around.
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  2. #2

    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    I will use archers against javelin units though, they are just too nasty (but fortunately short ranged) to leave alone.
    Yeah, tell me about it. I routed a fuedal knight unit with Murabitin (sp?) in a custom battle yesterday, just to try them out. Pretty nasty.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Senior Member gaijinalways's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    I have always used missile troops, often using them to soften up the enemy before attacking or to get them to go out of position.
    You can also use one missile unit to draw out some enemy units and then let them flee past your other missile units who take pot shots at the pursueing enemy soldiers.

    Finally, those battles where you don't have any and keep getting whittled down in missile showers are annoying.

  4. #4
    Beauty hunter Senior Member Raz's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    Quote Originally Posted by drone View Post
    If attacking an enemy that lacks missiles, then I try to let my archers expend all their ammo before starting the melee. Not only will this save my infantry and cav, but it also valors up my archers for better accuracy later on. High valor missile troops can be handy when 1230 rolls around.
    I swear that valour has no effect on missile troops' accuracies... or am I mistaken?
    Quote Originally Posted by drone
    I imagine an open-source project to recreate [Medieval: Total War] would be faced with an army of high-valour lawyers.

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  5. #5
    Needs more flowers Moderator drone's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    Quote Originally Posted by Raz View Post
    I swear that valour has no effect on missile troops' accuracies... or am I mistaken?
    My understanding has always been that the added valour from the general's command rating does not have any effect, but the actual valour of the unit does. I've been looking around for clarification, and there is mention of it in the numerology thread, but I don't know the exact effect.
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  6. #6
    Member Member Gyrfalcon's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    I believe that all valour gives an accuracy bonus. It is, however, a small one, and only noticeable above valour four or so.

  7. #7
    Friend of Lady Luck Member Mooks's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    Anyone else use gunpowder units? I use them alongside longbowmen/regular archers. Gotta love taking down 1/2 a royal knight unit in one volley.
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  8. #8

    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    Quote Originally Posted by holybandit View Post
    Anyone else use gunpowder units? I use them alongside longbowmen/regular archers. Gotta love taking down 1/2 a royal knight unit in one volley.
    Truth be told, I don't make it to the Late period very often unless I start there.

  9. #9
    Cardinal Member Ironsword's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    TBH I prefer Arbalesters to gunpowder units. I guess i've been unlucky using them, but all I seem to be able to get them to do is trot towards the enemy where either a) they get massacred by heavy cavalry or b) it starts to rain!

    Now serpentines and volley guns on the other hand...
    Last edited by Ironsword; 09-05-2008 at 17:45. Reason: bad, bad grammar!

  10. #10
    Camel Lord Senior Member Capture The Flag Champion Martok's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiss View Post
    Truth be told, I don't make it to the Late period very often unless I start there.
    Ditto that. Of course, I'm not terribly fond of gunpowder units in any case. Aside from siege cannons, I rarely bother with them.
    "MTW is not a game, it's a way of life." -- drone

  11. #11
    Minion of Zoltan Member Roark's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    Quote Originally Posted by holybandit View Post
    Anyone else use gunpowder units? I use them alongside longbowmen/regular archers. Gotta love taking down 1/2 a royal knight unit in one volley.
    I absolutely lurrrrve gunpowder, which is weird because I used to play Early just to avoid all gunpowder in my games altogether.

    I pack the following, whenever they are available:

    - Handgunners in 2s or 3s any time.
    - Arquebusiers when I have a high command general, or if they have valour-boosting traits (they are great fun with high valour)
    - Serpentines on defence (devastating against anything except fast cavalry)
    - Demi-cannons, Demi-culverins, and Culverins for sieges.
    - Organ guns in batteries of 3 (usually mercs) on defence in hilly terrain.

    My whole strategy is centralised around stacking a number of demoralising elements:

    1. Constant stream of missile fire (usually flanker hybrids, if I'm Muslim, or arbalesters if I'm Catholic).
    2. Flanker charges (Gallows, Highlanders, Futtuwas, Nizaris, Muhawids, Hashishin etc)
    3. Engines (organ guns, serpentines, catapults - sometimes just for the fear factor)
    4. Gunpowder infantry (Handgunners run around to the rear or arquebusiers on a hill)
    5. Suleyman Gambit (kill the general: javelins, cavalry charge on pinned general etc)

    ...so gunpowder works well within this purpose.

    Again, I stress that high valour arquebusiers are a heap of fun. Surprisingly, they even work well against annoying Mongol Horse Archers on a hill defence. They'll demoralise and scare off depleted units ahead of your main line quite effectively, as the Mongols will often get quite close to snipe at units other than your arqs.

  12. #12
    Member Member Kamakazi's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    i hate how on vi the ai doesnt know how to use missle units.... you don put them infront of your spears / swords jesus run them through then they retreat through their own peeps... instant mass rout....
    If living is nothing dieing is nothing then nothing is everything and everything is nothing


  13. #13
    Member Member Knight of the Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    I *always* put my archers in front of my spears / swords. But I don't rely on the "skirmish"-mode to pull them to safety - I pull them out myself when I judge they are in peril.

    When the AI deploys in front of the line, well - they get the benefit of the extra range, and as I'm playing on expert and as a blitzer, I rarely have the ability (ie numbers and/or quality) to make the AI army rout from hitting the line head on. It takes a little more "preparation".

    /KotR

  14. #14
    Friend of Lady Luck Member Mooks's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    Quote Originally Posted by Knight of the Rose View Post
    I *always* put my archers in front of my spears / swords. But I don't rely on the "skirmish"-mode to pull them to safety - I pull them out myself when I judge they are in peril.

    When the AI deploys in front of the line, well - they get the benefit of the extra range, and as I'm playing on expert and as a blitzer, I rarely have the ability (ie numbers and/or quality) to make the AI army rout from hitting the line head on. It takes a little more "preparation".

    /KotR
    The skirmish mode rarely works for me.

    /moment of silence for dead archers

    What about seige weapons on the battlefield? anyone else have them? I get at least 2 catapults or naptha in each full stacked army. They kill a fair amount and force the enemy to rush me. culverins can destroy units.
    Quote Originally Posted by Furunculus View Post
    i love the idea that angsty-teens can get so spazzed out by computer games that they try to rage-rape themselves with a remote.

  15. #15

    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    I've taken to using about 8 units of Arbys in front of my armies,in lines of 2.The damage they can inflict on the opposing force.especially on royal Knights and such,is proceless to behold,but no experience with artillery yet,but I'm planning to experiment with serpentines as a addition to my forces soon..

  16. #16
    Member Member Knight of the Rose's Avatar
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    Default Re: I Stand Converted

    Quote Originally Posted by holybandit View Post
    What about seige weapons on the battlefield? anyone else have them? I get at least 2 catapults or naptha in each full stacked army. They kill a fair amount and force the enemy to rush me. culverins can destroy units.
    Siege in field battles I find quite impractical. They fire slowly, often miss, and can usually be bypassed as some cannot turn and others cannot target enemies too close.

    Naphta, well, I'm in doubts about those. I try to use them in combo with spearmen, placing them right behind the spear wall to add some offensive punch to the defencive spears. But half of the time the greek fire engulfs my own men, causing a rout. Other times though, they've performed very well. They just feel like taking a chance, to me.

    As for gunpowder siege, I find they're a little better than regular siege - except the bombard, that always blows up in my face. The scary value also help, together with some other gunpowder units. In fact, I always considered handgunners inept, but in my current campaign I'm going gunpowder heavy and build them. In one battle my two handgun units killed 1/5 of the enemy's army without taking losses, as their volley caused a rout every time. Made me reconsider their general use...

    /KotR

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